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Author Topic: New York City Stores Must Accept Cash Council Says  (Read 595 times)
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January 27, 2020, 11:42:35 AM
 #1

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New York lawmakers passed a bill that puts New York at the forefront of a national movement to ban cashless businesses.

From a cup of coffee to a car ride, mobile devices or plastic cards are becoming the preferred, and sometimes exclusive, methods of payment in many parts of the world.

But being forced to pay that way, rather than having the option of using cash, may soon be illegal in New York City.

The City Council approved legislation on Thursday that prohibits stores, restaurants and other retail outlets from refusing to accept hard currency.

The measure puts New York at the forefront of a national movement to rein in so-called cashless businesses: New Jersey, Philadelphia and San Francisco all approved such bans last year, and several other cities are considering similar moves. Massachusetts has had a law requiring retailers to accept cash and credit since 1978.

But New York City officials have also targeted ride-sharing and meal-delivery apps, as well as facial recognition for building entries — all in an effort to blunt the impact of advancing technology on those who are unable to use it because of financial circumstances, unwilling to for philosophical reasons or vulnerable to its darker aspects.

“Consumers should have the right to choose if they want to pay in cash or not,” said Councilman Ritchie Torres, the bill’s lead sponsor. “We are reining in the excesses of the digital economy.”

Under the bill, businesses that refuse cash face fines of $1,000 for a first violation and $1,500 for each subsequent offense. Businesses with devices that convert cash to cards, like those found in many laundromats, are exempt under certain conditions, including a provision that there be no fee for such cards.

One large New York business that provides cash-conversion machines and would therefore be exempt is the Barclays Center in Brooklyn, where many, though not all, concession stands do not accept cash.

With 23 of Mr. Torres’s colleagues signing on as sponsors, the bill, which he first introduced in 2018, passed the City Council by a 43-3 margin on Thursday. A spokeswoman for Mayor Bill de Blasio said on Wednesday that he supported “the intent” of the legislation, but that his administration still planned to review it.

Kalman Yeger, a Democratic councilman from Brooklyn, criticized those who voted for the measure of “overreaching.”

“We are inserting ourselves in the business of business in a way that we don’t have the right to,” he said.

The move to protect the use of cash comes amid a worldwide trend toward electronic payments that is being driven by various factors.

For many people, it is simply more convenient to buy something with a swipe or a tap. Businesses that refuse cash say it is faster and easier for workers to process digital payments and keep customer lines moving. Fans of the cashless approach also say it spares employees from mundane tasks like counting money and limits the danger of robbery and theft.

But critics of cashless businesses say they discriminate against people who lack bank accounts and credit cards, while also raising the specter of hackers stealing personal data tied to digital transactions.

The city’s Department of Consumer Affairs said last year that one in nine New York households did not have a bank account, and that one in five were “underbanked,” meaning they had a checking or savings account but relied on something other than a bank to cash a check. Bronx households, the agency said, were around twice as likely not to have a bank account.

“I worry about the real-world discriminatory effect that cashless business can have on New Yorkers, especially in communities of color,” Mr. Torres, a Bronx Democrat, said.

The prospect of the Council prohibiting businesses from refusing cash appeared to go over well with Maren Berthelsen and Lucia Burns, two friends who were having lunch on Thursday at Mulberry & Vine on Warren Street in Manhattan. A sign near the restaurant’s register informed customers that cash was not accepted, and neither woman was happy about it.

“I think it’s incredibly discriminatory not to accept cash because some people can’t get credit,” said Ms. Berthelsen, a teaching artist.

Ms. Burns, a program coordinator, agreed.

“It is exclusionary,” she said, “because people without means are less likely to have a credit card.”

The National Retail Federation, a trade group, has taken the position that “retailers should have the right to choose which payments to accept and to decide for themselves whether going cashless makes sense for their businesses,” according to a statement by Stephanie Martz, the group’s general counsel.

Beyond that, Ms. Martz said, measures like the one to be voted on in New York City were “a solution in search of a problem since cashless stores are fairly uncommon.” Still, a report from the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco cited by the federation showed the portion of transactions made in cash falling to 30 percent in 2017 from 40 percent in 2012.

The salad chain Sweetgreen was among the businesses with New York City outlets that had gone cashless. The company reversed course last year, saying that limiting how customers could pay “had the unintended consequence of excluding those who prefer to pay or can pay only with cash.”

Another restaurant chain that operates in New York City and does not accept cash, Dos Toros Taqueria, declined to comment on the passage of the cashless-store ban.

In City Council testimony last year, Leo Kremer, a Dos Toros founder, expressed opposition to the prohibition. He said that since moving entirely to electronic payments, the company had, among other things, cut down on firing or otherwise punishing workers over cash discrepancies.

Mr. Kremer also said that in considering expanding beyond New York, Dos Toros had picked Chicago over Boston in part because of the Massachusetts law.

Chicago is among the cities that are now considering their own bans on cashless businesses.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/23/nyregion/nyc-cashless-ban.html



....


Cashless societies being progressive leftist movements. It is curious to see one of the most progressive and left leaning states in the entire USA adopt policies which buck the trend. Ditto with leftist progressive california mirroring these anti cashless society paradigms.

I don't suppose they're doing this to make life easier for illegal immigrants who may not have access to debit cards or bank accounts?

If such is the case, someone could design and rollout a cryptocurrency which makes life for illegal immigrants easier. It could end up being the most quickly adopted crypto of all time, no matter how much electricity it utilized, how many animals were harmed or the ecological disasters it might have caused in the process.

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January 27, 2020, 12:34:11 PM
 #2

Cash is here to stay for a long time. And i dont undestand hate around it, let people decide what to use
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January 27, 2020, 01:01:48 PM
 #3



Cashless societies being progressive leftist movements.

I don't suppose they're doing this to make life easier for illegal immigrants who may not have access to debit cards or bank accounts?

If such is the case, someone could design and rollout a cryptocurrency which makes life for illegal immigrants easier. It could end up being the most quickly adopted crypto of all time, no matter how much electricity it utilized, how many animals were harmed or the ecological disasters it might have caused in the process.



As well do not forget, that if you are somehow politically incorrect, often banks/payment providers may refuse to provide services to you. If you have in such case no access to hard cash (or cryptocurrency wallet), you simply cannot live a normal life, as you will not be able to pay even for own groceries.


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January 27, 2020, 01:13:47 PM
Merited by philipma1957 (2)
 #4


Cashless societies being progressive leftist movements. It is curious to see one of the most progressive and left leaning states in the entire USA adopt policies which buck the trend. Ditto with leftist progressive california mirroring these anti cashless society paradigms.

I don't suppose they're doing this to make life easier for illegal immigrants who may not have access to debit cards or bank accounts?


No - they're banning cashless retailers because of the very real risk that if credit card terminals are hacked, or the electricity grid is hacked, the whole economy goes down.

In the UK, we've had several instances of banking IT going down, which means no-one can use the cards from the bank. If you have no cash at hand, you can't pay for food and petrol during the downtime.

You must always build fail-safes into a system - and cash is a fail safe.

 
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January 27, 2020, 01:41:53 PM
 #5


Cashless societies being progressive leftist movements. It is curious to see one of the most progressive and left leaning states in the entire USA adopt policies which buck the trend. Ditto with leftist progressive california mirroring these anti cashless society paradigms.

I don't suppose they're doing this to make life easier for illegal immigrants who may not have access to debit cards or bank accounts?


No - they're banning cashless retailers because of the very real risk that if credit card terminals are hacked, or the electricity grid is hacked, the whole economy goes down.

In the UK, we've had several instances of banking IT going down, which means no-one can use the cards from the bank. If you have no cash at hand, you can't pay for food and petrol during the downtime.

You must always build fail-safes into a system - and cash is a fail safe.

It is true that some other countries or places, prefer a cashless transaction because they think that it is more secured and safe. Although it is faster and reliable, you can use it whenever and wherever you want if a certain company or shop allows you to access your accounts and use it as a form of payment. That's not even impossible because our technologies are continuously developing for years and we have nothing to do about it. We need to adopt from the advantages of being millennial that all things in our surroundings are easier to use, means "high-tech". But you've said that the only problem in a digital currency is that it is prone in being hacked. You should also make safe transactions and plans to prevent yourself from being scammed while using a card.

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January 27, 2020, 01:44:56 PM
 #6

i wonder,how beggars can survive there ?
new york must be a dynamic city,with no traditional market there and full of internet connection everywhere.
seems pretty easy to do such thing there.
but the point, how security there will be ?
If such is the case, someone could design and rollout a cryptocurrency which makes life for illegal immigrants easier. It could end up being the most quickly adopted crypto of all time, no matter how much electricity it utilized, how many animals were harmed or the ecological disasters it might have caused in the process.

well, yes, it can be, but in this case, these people still need a bank account too for cashing out, i dont think daily needs can be completely overcome by crypto.

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January 27, 2020, 02:31:20 PM
 #7

I actually think it makes sense to allow cash as an option as long as it is legal money. It’s government printed money so it seems that it would have to be acceptable. The government could stop printing money and then we could switch over.

However, going completely cashless does create a problem for poor people that don’t have phones or computers or even credit cards.

 
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January 27, 2020, 02:42:05 PM
 #8

Cash is here to stay for a long time. And i dont undestand hate around it, let people decide what to use
Exactly the government should made it mandatory for every business to make cash their foremost and preferred payment for their products and services and if the customers don't have cash then they should use other payment options. Lots of money are spent by the government to print physical money for businesses to say they won't accept them.
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January 27, 2020, 02:51:30 PM
 #9

This is interesting to me, as there are at least two businesses right near me that only accept cash because apparently they don't want to deal with payment processors like Visa & Mastercard and the fees that are involved.  I don't know of any businesses in my state that won't take your paper money or coins.  That seems very odd to me--whatever happened to "cash is king"?  Why would any merchant not accept cash?

I totally get that people love paying for things with plastic or their smartphone, but there should always be an option to pay for things with physical money IMO.  Not only is it cheaper for the merchant but it's sometimes more convenient for some people, plus you have to deal with problems like the power going out or not being able to connect to the payment processor.  What do you do in situations like that--not make sales?  That's crazy.

I'm not a New Yorker and rarely go there anymore, but this is a good move on their part I think.

However, going completely cashless does create a problem for poor people that don’t have phones or computers or even credit cards.
Exactly.  That population is by no means negligible.  Some people beg for their meals or collect pocket change, and how are they supposed to pay for things if society goes completely cashless?

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January 27, 2020, 04:53:15 PM
 #10

This is interesting to me, as there are at least two businesses right near me that only accept cash because apparently they don't want to deal with payment processors like Visa & Mastercard and the fees that are involved.  I don't know of any businesses in my state that won't take your paper money or coins.  That seems very odd to me--whatever happened to "cash is king"?  Why would any merchant not accept cash?

They dont want to deal with cash because possible robbers. When you deal with cash and your revenue is low. You need to have enough change stored. Dealing only with credit cards is simple, since they can pay exactly as it is needed and no need to give them change back.
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January 27, 2020, 08:01:15 PM
 #11

Let the use of cash and cashless mode of payment be options that the people can choose from. Let it be the choice of the people. I quite understand that the retailers feel the need to propel people into the digital era and think the cashless mode of payment is safer for them. But, forcing people to go cashless isn’t a good way to go about it. How will the people who have no access to cashless mode of payment cope? Let it be a choice.
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January 28, 2020, 04:23:08 AM
 #12



It is quite ironic that there must be a law passed demanding that the consuming public be given the opportunity to pay in cash if they wanted to and not being imposed with only cashless options. Well, we are in the era where the world is turned upside so this is nothing special anymore to me. While I understand that cashless choices can even be more convenience to many shops and merchants, I am supporting this move to legally require businesses that open right for anybody to use cash. However, they also require them to accept Bitcoin though this can just be another "punch the moon" wish.
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January 28, 2020, 05:20:02 AM
 #13

Let the use of cash and cashless mode of payment be options that the people can choose from. Let it be the choice of the people. I quite understand that the retailers feel the need to propel people into the digital era and think the cashless mode of payment is safer for them. But, forcing people to go cashless isn’t a good way to go about it. How will the people who have no access to cashless mode of payment cope? Let it be a choice.
With digital ear and technology become most popular I think digital payment currency is most priority is some bigger city, its available when have bigger store only accepted using digital currency payment and not allowed for receiving with cash money transaction, we now on bigger era of payment digital currency.
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January 28, 2020, 05:50:41 AM
 #14


Cashless societies being progressive leftist movements. It is curious to see one of the most progressive and left leaning states in the entire USA adopt policies which buck the trend. Ditto with leftist progressive california mirroring these anti cashless society paradigms.

I don't suppose they're doing this to make life easier for illegal immigrants who may not have access to debit cards or bank accounts?


Digital, physical, what's the difference, if they would still be in control of the money supply?

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If such is the case, someone could design and rollout a cryptocurrency which makes life for illegal immigrants easier. It could end up being the most quickly adopted crypto of all time, no matter how much electricity it utilized, how many animals were harmed or the ecological disasters it might have caused in the process.


Use Bitcoin! Why suggest a creation of another "cryptocurrency", which would be under their control? What are we here for?

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January 28, 2020, 05:55:38 AM
 #15

Cash is indeed convenient to use. And it will stay for a long while before it is totally replaced with online payments and digital currencies. But does it have to be made into an explicit policy stating that stores must accept them? Do stores not have the right or the preference to accept any kind of payment for as long as they are legal?

 
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January 28, 2020, 06:25:16 AM
 #16

Do stores not have the right or the preference to accept any kind of payment for as long as they are legal?

If you read the full OP, you'll understand what's the reason. I assume the store has some responsibility to follow the rules so this is where they'd debate which is their 'right' and which one is their 'obligation'.

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January 28, 2020, 07:04:36 AM
 #17

If I understand this correctly,the City stores cannot REFUSE to accept cash,according to the Council's decision.They can still accept credit/debit cards and mobile app payments.They just don't have to right to deny cash payments.I think this is a good decision.A 100% cashless society means less freedom of choice.
I'm not a fiat supporter but the people have to choose what payment method to use.Their choice shouldn't be limited.

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January 28, 2020, 09:00:55 AM
 #18

Cashless societies being progressive leftist movements. It is curious to see one of the most progressive and left leaning states in the entire USA adopt policies which buck the trend. Ditto with leftist progressive california mirroring these anti cashless society paradigms.

We Americans love our cash. It gets pretty weird:

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More than one in four Americans--27%--reports they hide their money in the freezer.  19% of residents “sock” their green away while 11% sleep well at night with their cash stuffed under their mattress.

Cash culture aside, it's not surprising to see places like SF and NYC enacting cashless bans. There is a progressive angle: the argument is these businesses discriminate against the unbanked/underbanked, which disproportionately affects the poor, communities of color, immigrants, etc.

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January 28, 2020, 09:19:35 AM
 #19

Well, this is good - for now. I don't mind people paying with plastic, I myself do most of my shopping using cards. But the option to pay in cash should be kept. An establishment turning away cash is basically saying they don't want gov't minted-money. I can't see any way that should be legal.

As well do not forget, that if you are somehow politically incorrect, often banks/payment providers may refuse to provide services to you. If you have in such case no access to hard cash (or cryptocurrency wallet), you simply cannot live a normal life, as you will not be able to pay even for own groceries.

Agreed, heard about a bank that did this, just forgot which one. Imagine actually locking your customer's money because you don't like their opinions. They should stick to doing business, not virtue signalling. Gillette should be a warning to them.

Cash culture aside, it's not surprising to see places like SF and NYC enacting cashless bans. There is a progressive angle: the argument is these businesses discriminate against the unbanked/underbanked, which disproportionately affects the poor, communities of color, immigrants, etc.

Who knew something "good" would come out of it. I'm assuming this is only for now that they still haven't distributed debit cards to their "constituents" where they can receive their welfare.

Once that gets going watch them be the first to encourage cashless only businesses under the guise that they'd be able to restrict people buying alcohol and stuff if they can only pay using card and they can't use cash to pay for drugs. Make no mistake though, once you step out of line your account will get cancelled.
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January 28, 2020, 01:56:44 PM
 #20

Probably it is maybe because the hackers are getting more skilled and intelligent that they have scared the government. Robbers are might already around looking for the opportunity for their next victims, that is the reason why cashless payment really is more convenient in a way that you won't even need to carry your very heavy coins and your very fragile piece of fiat paper. However, if we will be looking at the other side, cashless payment methods can easily get hacked by the intelligent new era of thieves. That is why New York has a very good point with that.

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