Democracy is dead and doesn't work!!! what about a one party system?

[tupacisalive]

Hi

A joke first:
Chinese student: hey I am Chinese. I came to your country to study and learn about your propaganda.
Democratic people: There is no propaganda here!!!
Chinese student: See, this is exactly why I came to study it here.

Got it???  

1,2,3 let's begin...

I'm new here and kind of like the discussion sections.
After reading plenty of posts, I want to share with you my thoughts about democracy and why I think it's dead.

I was born and raised in mmm, let's say an almost dictatorship and mmm, a civil war later etc etc, we got mmmm, some kind of democracy, but I never felt it is really suitable for my country and my people.
Fast forward, I studied and lived third of my life in western countries and the other third in communist and pseudo socialist countries like China,there I got an aha moment and kind of understood why China lifted around 800 millions people from poverty (United nation Numbers) and became a huge economic and technological player in just 30/40 years.
Fast forward, after plenty of researches about unique party countries, I found this AHA MOMENT VIDEO:

youtube. com/ watch?v=s0YjL9rZyR0

The guy in the TED talk explain very well how the Chinese one party works and how people are selected, and man, that sound so logical and realistic to me and that explains a lot of what I've seen and heard while I was in China.

So, take 20 minutes, watch the whole video and tell me.

Is democracy dead?
When you have just the powerful and rich who reach the top.
When corporation and banks sponsor them all.

Does it really work?
When you always have like 50% of the population unhappy after each vote.
When terms last 4 or 5 years only... come on, you can not even build a damn big highway in that period.
Basically, candidates spend 2 years to prepare for the vote, get elected, spend 2 years changing laws and making projects, then spend the other 2 years preparing for the next vote!!!
You see what i mean, no president has the realistic time to do anything serious for the long term.

Let's keep this clean and respectful.
Thank you for your insights.

[KingScorpio]

Hi

A joke first:
Chinese student: hey I am Chinese. I came to your country to study and learn about your propaganda.
Democratic people: There is no propaganda here!!!
Chinese student: See, this is exactly why I came to study it here.

Got it???  

1,2,3 let's begin...

I'm new here and kind of like the discussion sections.
After reading plenty of posts, I want to share with you my thoughts about democracy and why I think it's dead.

I was born and raised in mmm, let's say an almost dictatorship and mmm, a civil war later etc etc, we got mmmm, some kind of democracy, but I never felt it is really suitable for my country and my people.
Fast forward, I studied and lived third of my life in western countries and the other third in communist and pseudo socialist countries like China,there I got an aha moment and kind of understood why China lifted around 800 millions people from poverty (United nation Numbers) and became a huge economic and technological player in just 30/40 years.
Fast forward, after plenty of researches about unique party countries, I found this AHA MOMENT VIDEO:

youtube. com/ watch?v=s0YjL9rZyR0

The guy in the TED talk explain very well how the Chinese one party works and how people are selected, and man, that sound so logical and realistic to me and that explains a lot of what I've seen and heard while I was in China.

So, take 20 minutes, watch the whole video and tell me.

Is democracy dead?
When you have just the powerful and rich who reach the top.
When corporation and banks sponsor them all.

Does it really work?
When you always have like 50% of the population unhappy after each vote.
When terms last 4 or 5 years only... come on, you can not even build a damn big highway in that period.
Basically, candidates spend 2 years to prepare for the vote, get elected, spend 2 years changing laws and making projects, then spend the other 2 years preparing for the next vote!!!
You see what i mean, no president has the realistic time to do anything serious for the long term.

Let's keep this clean and respectful.
Thank you for your insights.

there is no such thing as democracy, if you look closer you will realise that all democracies where either plutocratic, oligarchic, or even monarchic.

there is always a financial elite with advantages.

[Bagaji]

Democracy really exist and is working very well in some developed country of the world no doubt about that fact. Op, why are afraid of mentioning your the name of your country so that one will be able to make a good analysis of what is happening in your country.

[Tramirostronix]

Democracy really exist and is working very well in some developed country of the world no doubt about that fact. Op, why are afraid of mentioning your the name of your country so that one will be able to make a good analysis of what is happening in your country.

Just to see, can you give us the name of the countries you are talking about ?
Because for me democracy is a good concept and some countries are closed to it, but in mine (France) I don't think everyone will agree if we said "democracy is real here ! "

After regarding the vote problem, a lot of people don't care about politics and just follow the medias.
If I play devil's advocate, should everyone have the right to vote ? I mean when you don't care about politics.

[KingScorpio]

Democracy really exist and is working very well in some developed country of the world no doubt about that fact. Op, why are afraid of mentioning your the name of your country so that one will be able to make a good analysis of what is happening in your country.

not really democracy is destroying there very important fundamentals

[Viper1]

Is democracy dead?
When you have just the powerful and rich who reach the top.
When corporation and banks sponsor them all.

Before one can even address your question, you're going to need to clearly define what you're talking about. What most people think of as "democracies" are representative democracies. Where the people vote for a representative and not for policies etc directly. In addition, the issues you raise have nothing to do with the system but the lack of laws, regulations and the like that would prevent/minimize those problems.

I must admit that the chinese system is interesting. What they can accomplish in short amounts of time is impressive and is certainly the reason they will most likely become the dominant power one day if the US and them don't go to war at some point which is far more likely (and historical). But the problem with those systems is that they are able to abuse the people in order to achieve their goals. There can be a working balance but no current system seems to work well in achieving it (except in times of major upheaval when everyone rallies around a common goal). Besides, I think it can easily be argued that the flaws you've outlined exist there as well.

Bottom line, all the current systems have flaws and no one has the will to fix them. And that especially includes the people themselves in the "democracies" where they do actually have some power to force the changes needed.

[BADecker]

On the outside of it, democracy is only dictatorship by a bigger group (the majority) over a smaller group (the minority).

Then, the bigger group delegates its authority to a tiny group, or maybe to one person. This tiny-group/one-person never implements the wishes of the bigger group properly... or maybe at all.

What this means is that a democracy is simply a dictatorship in disguise.


The USA is not a democracy or dictatorship. In the USA, the local jury can nullify any law for a man/woman of that locality. If juries nullify a law for enough people of a locality, the law can be nullified for the whole locality. If enough juries of enough localities nullify a law, the law can be nullified for the whole country.

Britain, Canada, Australia, India (with a few differences), and some other countries act the same way.

[KonstantinosM]

The United States has a lot of problems. However it's the most powerful country in the world and it is a democracy.

Greece is also a democracy and despite the shitty economy the quality of life there probably rivals any other country, it's just awesome.

With some changes towards a better democracy it's the best system there is. I think the biggest thing we need is an incentive to voting.

$200 dollars for federal elections and smaller amounts for every other election.  The only problem is that people aren't passionate enough about politics and also corruption.


I'd rather not live in China. I don't want my country to try and block my connection to the world. I'd rather not be watched with cameras 24/7 and sanctioned for wearing pyjamas in public. I'd rather not eat sewage oil in my street food. I don't believe people of certain religions should be jailed and have their organs harvested.


"What about a one party system?"

If anything we need more parties, the ability to vote in a way that allows for 2nd and 3rd and 4th preferences so that people can vote for more fringe candidates, breaking the 2 party system.

One of the big embarrassments of our system is the devolution to a 2 party system. A one party system is garbage.

Term limits are a good thing. Otherwise what's to stop a politician from accruing vast amounts of power or doing whatever the hell they want?

[BADecker]

^^^ The USA absolutely is NOT a democracy. It has democracies of all kinds within it. But it, itself, is not one of them.

[merchantofzeny]

there is no such thing as democracy, if you look closer you will realise that all democracies where either plutocratic, oligarchic, or even monarchic.

there is always a financial elite with advantages.

I agree to an extent. It'll be hard to find a society without no inequality.

I would say we should be judging societies primarily on social mobility, property rights, and freedom of expression, etc. No point trying to better your life if everything can be taken from you out of a whim.

I disagree about the one party system, you basically just have a mafia running the country. A multi-party system, for all its flaws at least keep each other in check, since they tend to undermine each other and fight over voters.

snip

China: One Party System, check. No term limits, check.

What else can they take?

[darkangel11]

Democracy works because it gives you a false sense of having something to say, being able to influence and shape the world around you. Everything is still done as it would be in a monarchy with that small difference that now you have this show for the public where people are being engaged in the process. They are asked for their opinions, allowed to interact with the government and the government buys votes and tries to look good before the elections and forgets all the promises after.
What democracy does is it gives us bread and circuses.

[KingScorpio]

there is no such thing as democracy, if you look closer you will realise that all democracies where either plutocratic, oligarchic, or even monarchic.

there is always a financial elite with advantages.

I agree to an extent. It'll be hard to find a society without no inequality.

I would say we should be judging societies primarily on social mobility, property rights, and freedom of expression, etc. No point trying to better your life if everything can be taken from you out of a whim.

I disagree about the one party system, you basically just have a mafia running the country. A multi-party system, for all its flaws at least keep each other in check, since they tend to undermine each other and fight over voters.

snip

China: One Party System, check. No term limits, check.

What else can they take?

even ultra communist soviet union was unequal, there where the directors, and the state officials that where the rich of the society.

[Tramirostronix]

there is no such thing as democracy, if you look closer you will realise that all democracies where either plutocratic, oligarchic, or even monarchic.

there is always a financial elite with advantages.

I agree to an extent. It'll be hard to find a society without no inequality.

I would say we should be judging societies primarily on social mobility, property rights, and freedom of expression, etc. No point trying to better your life if everything can be taken from you out of a whim.

I disagree about the one party system, you basically just have a mafia running the country. A multi-party system, for all its flaws at least keep each other in check, since they tend to undermine each other and fight over voters.

snip

China: One Party System, check. No term limits, check.

What else can they take?

even ultra communist soviet union was unequal, there where the directors, and the state officials that where the rich of the society.

Honestly except small villages and old tributes, I don't think you will find an example of a true Democracy.
For many people when a country is not a dictatorship​ or a a monarchy... Then it's a democracy.

Or maybe we need to define the word "democracy " to start on the same level

[KonstantinosM]

Since we all seemed to skip it. The idea behind the Chinese government is that it's a meritocracy. The people go through a career path and the people with the best evaluations end up governing larger areas in bigger roles.

Having worked in a company I understand that favoritism can quickly take over. So I don't buy the meritocracy crap. Democracy can cut through that kind of shit. I don't buy it. I'm not a dumb dumb. Not to that extent at least.

[KingScorpio]

how about germany becoming holy roman empire again

[KingScorpio]

there is no such thing as democracy, if you look closer you will realise that all democracies where either plutocratic, oligarchic, or even monarchic.

there is always a financial elite with advantages.

I agree to an extent. It'll be hard to find a society without no inequality.

I would say we should be judging societies primarily on social mobility, property rights, and freedom of expression, etc. No point trying to better your life if everything can be taken from you out of a whim.

I disagree about the one party system, you basically just have a mafia running the country. A multi-party system, for all its flaws at least keep each other in check, since they tend to undermine each other and fight over voters.

snip

China: One Party System, check. No term limits, check.

What else can they take?

even ultra communist soviet union was unequal, there where the directors, and the state officials that where the rich of the society.

Honestly except small villages and old tributes, I don't think you will find an example of a true Democracy.
For many people when a country is not a dictatorship​ or a a monarchy... Then it's a democracy.

Or maybe we need to define the word "democracy " to start on the same level

in my opinion monarchies are fundamentally not different to dictatorships, except for their theistic character

[merchantofzeny]

snip

snip

even ultra communist soviet union was unequal, there where the directors, and the state officials that where the rich of the society.

That's why I never take their word that they are pro-equality. During Mao's Great Famine he and his cadres wined and dined while the peasants in the countryside either die or are reduced to eating grass. Nothing ever really comes out of these Utopia Projects. Several small-scale attempts have been tried in America and pretty much all folded.

[KingScorpio]

snip

snip

even ultra communist soviet union was unequal, there where the directors, and the state officials that where the rich of the society.

That's why I never take their word that they are pro-equality. During Mao's Great Famine he and his cadres wined and dined while the peasants in the countryside either die or are reduced to eating grass. Nothing ever really comes out of these Utopia Projects. Several small-scale attempts have been tried in America and pretty much all folded.

comparing china of today with china of the past (100 years ago china was still using wooden ships)

china developed quite a lot, and human life expectancy grew a lot

[franky1]

china dont have a "one party" system.
as thats tyranny

china are less and less communist and becoming more capitalist/socialist as time goes on

they have semi-autonomic area's and places like hong kong that follow different rules.

i think that there should be a system which has independant states/zones/area's. and when there is a basic law that all states agree on. then that is a national law

take for instance the UK where at the moment its everyone votes, and whatever  the 650 area's is voted on. then stupidly all 650 area's have to follow the rule of the majority.

instead what could be done is whatever vote each of the 650 area's get. that individual area's policy follows of that area's vote. for instance cities will obviously be more conservative(capitalist) and rural area's would be more labour(socialist)

its kind of like usa.. where for instance NY is capitalist. and florida(the retirement state) is more socialist
but where the national government(unlike usa) is not their to govern/override the area's laws. but instead support them

that way taxes can be more aimed at the area's that mean alot to the people in that area
the reason i say this is because 'federal' taxes(in usa case) end up just going to buy mansions for politicians in washington rather than being a back-up for individual states

in recent history. usa feds have used FEMA to buy up PEOPLES land on the cheap. sell it at profit to their rich buddies and then use the profits for activities not related to the state that they made profit from.

technology does make it possible to make a more decentralised democracy work. but a 'one party' system is just ripe for abuse

[Tramirostronix]

there is no such thing as democracy, if you look closer you will realise that all democracies where either plutocratic, oligarchic, or even monarchic.

there is always a financial elite with advantages.

I agree to an extent. It'll be hard to find a society without no inequality.

I would say we should be judging societies primarily on social mobility, property rights, and freedom of expression, etc. No point trying to better your life if everything can be taken from you out of a whim.

I disagree about the one party system, you basically just have a mafia running the country. A multi-party system, for all its flaws at least keep each other in check, since they tend to undermine each other and fight over voters.

snip

China: One Party System, check. No term limits, check.

What else can they take?

even ultra communist soviet union was unequal, there where the directors, and the state officials that where the rich of the society.

Honestly except small villages and old tributes, I don't think you will find an example of a true Democracy.
For many people when a country is not a dictatorship​ or a a monarchy... Then it's a democracy.

Or maybe we need to define the word "democracy " to start on the same level

in my opinion monarchies are fundamentally not different to dictatorships, except for their theistic character

I think it depends on which kind of monarchies. In England it's not a dictatorship (or a meritocracy if some of you prefer)  like in China but it is a monarchy on the paper ...
In Europe a lot of monarchies are just "democracies" with a King or a Queen.