do you think Healthcare and College should be free for all in the US? If so, how

[Rahib khan]

do you think Healthcare and College should be free for all in the US? If so, how do you recommend they find it?

[jackg]

I have a few questions on this topic, not sure if this is thread hijacking or not:

1. As someone from the UK we have free healthcare at the point of use, apparently we pay less tax than the US so I'm always curious what this money actually gets spent on?
2. How much is health insurance over there? I know private health insurance in Europe ranges from $200-$300 for a normal healthy person and on average the NHS in the UK is funded at a rate of £197 per person per month.

[o_e_l_e_o]

1. As someone from the UK we have free healthcare at the point of use, apparently we pay less tax than the US so I'm always curious what this money actually gets spent on?

Middlemen and profits, mostly. The health insurance industry is massive. There are a huge number of people employed by this, from the call center staff to the people in the hospitals sitting down with physicians, pharmacists, nursing staff, etc. and going through every single patient's treatment, drugs, operations, scans, tests, care, etc. making sure it all gets billed correctly. Its a huge amount of unnecessary staff, and it takes up a huge amount of healthcare workers' time. The amount of paperwork it generates is massive, and obviously more staff to deal with all this. These companies obviously have to make profits as well and boy, do they make profits!

2. How much is health insurance over there?

Varies massively. The average is around $400-500 per month per person, but that doesn't give you anywhere near full coverage. Plenty of plans include various diseases or treatments they won't cover, if you go "out of network" and use healthcare services or providers your insurance company doesn't approve of they won't cover you, and so on. The plans all still include deductibles, which is how much you have to pay before your insurance will even kick in (usually several thousands of dollars), and copays or coinsurances, which is how much you have to pay even after your insurance has kicked in. All this is on top of the fact that a higher proportion of US tax revenue is spent on healthcare than most other developed nations, even ones with fully socialized medicine.


Here's part of a post I made a while back about US healthcare:

The US healthcare system is broken. In a Commonwealth Fund Report the US ranked last overall, as well as last for efficiency, equity, and cost-related access. The only category the US came first on was price - so as well as being the worst healthcare system in the developed world, the US is also the most expensive in the world, spending approximately 6-7% more of its GDP on health.



If you compare actual dollars per citizen the difference is even more striking - the UK's NHS, the highest rated healthcare system in the world spends $3,405 per citizen per year on healthcare. The US spends a whopping $8,508, and despite spending 2.5x per citizen, those citizen receive significantly worse care and outcomes. That's without even touching on the astronomical individual cost of health insurance, and the fact that any US citizen is a single major illness or disease away from bankruptcy.

US spends more of its tax dollars on healthcare than any other developed nation, and people also have to pay astronomical insurance prices, and people still have to pay out of pocket, and people still go bankrupt from a single serious illness or accident, and for all this money, US citizens still get inferior care to every other developed nation on the planet. There is only one good reason why the US can't move to socialized healthcare, and it is because the insurance companies use their insane profits to lobby politicians and use the media to push the lie that socialized medicine is somehow evil. It's not a case of "needing to find the money for it", as OP suggests. It would be a massive cost saving.

[Hydrogen]

do you think Healthcare and College should be free for all in the US? If so, how do you recommend they find it?

The only way either could be free is through the extension of volunteer programs like doctors without borders or volunteer teaching/tutoring.

It is possible. But governments, CEOs and politicians would strongly oppose it.

I have a few questions on this topic, not sure if this is thread hijacking or not:

1. As someone from the UK we have free healthcare at the point of use, apparently we pay less tax than the US so I'm always curious what this money actually gets spent on?
2. How much is health insurance over there? I know private health insurance in Europe ranges from $200-$300 for a normal healthy person and on average the NHS in the UK is funded at a rate of £197 per person per month.

#1  Europe pays a higher income tax in contrast to the united states. Summing all taxes together to calculate real tax rates, americans pay collectively higher taxes.

#2  The cost of health insurance has increased approximately 20% annually over the span of the last 10+ years. That large compounding interest has always been the real issue afaik. Neither politicians nor the media has ever recommended options for fixing healthcare that would end in anything other than widespread and catastrophic disaster.

US spends more of its tax dollars on healthcare than any other developed nation, and people also have to pay astronomical insurance prices, and people still have to pay out of pocket, and people still go bankrupt from a single serious illness or accident, and for all this money, US citizens still get inferior care to every other developed nation on the planet. There is only one good reason why the US can't move to socialized healthcare, and it is because the insurance companies use their insane profits to lobby politicians and use the media to push the lie that socialized medicine is somehow evil. It's not a case of "needing to find the money for it", as OP suggests. It would be a massive cost saving.

Private health insurance profit margins only range around 5%. Which is perfectly normal for the insurance industry. Health insurance has never been anything aside from a scapegoat and deflection from the real issues.

The real problem with US healthcare has always been big pharma, medical equipment manufacturers and the healthcare industry in general boasting profit margins in the 20% to 40% range.

There are many other mitigating factors like the doctor to patient ratio looming around 1:1000 wheras in foreign countries its closer to a healthier statistic like 1:300. The media never mentions any of the real problems with healthcare as if their goal were to ensure the public remain ignorant.

[AniviaBtc]

do you think Healthcare and College should be free for all in the US? If so, how do you recommend they find it?

It should, because many teenagers or people in the US that can't study due to a financial problem. They are missing their opportunity to learn in school and it is hard for a person to become illiterate and ignorant. That's why government should allow all the college school or university to become a tuition-free in US, not only in US, it is applicable to any part of the world. We need to prioritize the quality of the education in a country so that people will help to build a better world for us.

In terms of Healthcare, it also should be free because it is not a choice for the people to get sick. The problem nowadays is that when you don't have money to go to a hospital, you have nothing to do but to suffer. Government should do something about that, most especially those senior citizens that requires to have a medical assistance as they grow older and older.

[jackg]

@Hydrogen, you light be right there.

There's a limit to how much people can pay for prescription drugs here which is generally a good thing imo as it means pharmaceuticals have to lower the cost of the medicine or provide an less effective but still productive product (charities seem to help if it's a life threatening condition afaik) .

[The Sceptical Chymist]

In the US, there's definitely a lot of wasted resources but as far as healthcare and college being free?  Nope, there's no way in hell that's going to happen without jacking up taxes and/or cutting spending on a lot of things.

There are a lot of things that could potentially be defunded, but everyone who works in those sectors always fights tooth and nail to keep their jobs and relevance, so it isn't easy for politicians to push for that--nor is it easy for them to increase taxes without people protesting (and rightly so IMO). 

I think healthcare should be cheaper, if not free, and I think that's possible.  But college?  Why shouldn't people have to pay for their own secondary education?  That's a lot less critical than healthcare IMO, and I would point out that there are lots of financial aid packages available for students who want to go to college.  Part of the problem is that many students major in subjects that won't make them competitive in the job market after graduation, and thus they're saddled with enormous debt that they have trouble paying.  That's a lousy situation, but I bet many of them could have done better at a state school where tuition is reduced for state residents.  It's still expensive, but it's not outrageous.  Not all colleges cost the same, if you didn't know it.

[Coinbees]

If no alternative solution is found to make its services free then you can forget about it.
But it is necessarily a question that must be asked, and if you have things to offer this is the time to talk about it.
As said before, there are so many resources ridiculously wasted ...

[UFO Chaos]

NO

Free Video
Milton Friedman - The Free Lunch Myth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmqoCHR14n8




There's No Such Thing As a Free Lunch: Milton Friedman
Milton Friedman is a senior research fellow at the Hoover Institution, Stanford University, and the Paul Snowden Distinguished Service Professor Emeritus of Economics at the University of Chicago. In 1976 he was awarded the Nobel Prize in economics. He has written a number of books, including two with his wife, Rose D. Friedman---the bestselling Free to Choose and Two Lucky People: Memoirs, the latter published by the University of Chicago Press.

https://www.amazon.com/Theres-Such-Thing-Free-Lunch/dp/087548297X

[o_e_l_e_o]

The real problem with US healthcare has always been big pharma, medical equipment manufacturers and the healthcare industry in general boasting profit margins in the 20% to 40% range.

Agree with everything you say, apart from this line. The issue isn't these companies, it's how the US deals with them. Every other developed nation in the world has to deal with pharmaceutical companies and equipment manufacturers, and manages to do so at a fraction of the cost the US pays. The majority of major pharmaceutical companies are headquartered in nations with socialized healthcare, and their socialized healthcare markets far outweigh their US markets.

There's a limit to how much people can pay for prescription drugs here

People don't realize how much of a good thing that is, or how ridiculous the US market is. Recently there was widespread praise for Illinois governor JB Pritzker for signing a law which caps the cost of insulin at $100 per month. Elsewhere in the US, individuals pay anywhere from $300 to $1,000 per month for insulin. The cost to produce a month's supply of insulin is about $4. The UK's NHS buys insulin for less than $10, and the companies still make a healthy profit on it. $1,000 a month is utterly obscene.

[Averim]

do you think Healthcare and College should be free for all in the US? If so, how do you recommend they find it?

Health and education goes hand in hand for a developed nation. I'm not a us citizen but i believe certain things should be accessible for everybody no matter the financial situation as long there are rules to follow, like periodic free health controls, dedicated seminars of volunteer activities in the educational field, developed for the pore people (only with education we can escape from poverty.) But unfortunately at the end of the day all what matters is the numbers.

[pixie85]

It shouldn't be because when it's free it's actually shitty and still not free, especially healthcare.

In many socialist countries it was supposed to be free but it made it so bad that people had to wait in queues for weeks to get a simple procedure done. Make it free nad you'll always have too many people trying to get a freebie, especially old crazy people who feel a little ache and already call for ER because they think they're dying.
As a result:
Old people constantly wait in lines
Poor peopole also wait in lines
Rich people pay for private visits
There's not enough money to hire good specialists and those resign from public hospitals and go abroad or private.

[JollyGood]

Where there is a will there is a way. I think education and health care should be free for all, everywhere but as far as the USA is concerned if they wanted to offer free college and free health care they would find a way.

Right now the medical companies (insurance, research & development, etc) have lobbyists to work on their behalf to influence matters on a political level in Washington DC. It probably ensures free health care (which is derived from the tax payer) will not be happening any time soon. As for free college, that too is highly unlikely. Funding is the biggest stumbling block to both.

The fact that government after government in a country such as the USA would rather pump trillions in to other places such as the military rather than health care or higher education shows there is something fundamentally wrong.

do you think Healthcare and College should be free for all in the US? If so, how do you recommend they find it?

[Subbir]

I think that healthcare and college should be free for everybody within the US because there are many poor families who simply cannot meet their own needs thanks to a lack of cash. If they are doing not send the boy to high school they're going to be ignorant If they suffer from various illnesses if they begin to supply healthcare within us they're going to develop and prosper.

[andy.bandy]

Maybe it should be free at least healthcare, as there are high taxes a friend of mine work there for google and he pay from his salary almost 40% to taxes and all, well also there should be found a way that College to be free for people who don't afford to pay it.

[OgNasty]

How?  Here's how... 

Commit to printing a ton of money forever.  Give said money away to big healthcare companies on an ongoing basis.  Convince stupid people that you're doing it for them.  Enjoy the ride until the USD is no longer the world's reserve currency, at which point all future generations without generational wealth will have the deck stacked even further against them.

[franky1]

saying "insured for free" is different from 'free healthcare"

first of all free healthcare means if you go on vacation in a different state you can just go to any hospital and not have to check if your covered. you just get treated, no questions asked

also insurance fiddle he actual costs
say a medication costs $1.. insurance companies have deals where they control the 'billing system' of non insured people and try to charge $100 for non insured people. and yet for insured people say the person needs to only pay a small amount of $10.. even when the medication is $1

some non-profit health providers actually are willing to send people on a plane to mexico to buy the medication and fly back because doing so is actually cheaper then having to use the big pharma insurance systems

it does not actually cost $80k for surgery.
think bout it
even if you have a team of 10 people earning $100k a year each working 250 days a year
thats only $400 a day. or $200 for an average 6 hour surgery=$2k full surgical team
equipment and disinfecting is not even $1k so thats $3k

but yep insurance companies will say its $80k and get people to part pay $8k

in short
american insurance is crap. and they make you pay. and if you dont have it they make you pay 10-100x the actual cost

so while you think a $80k uninsured bill for a surgery would cost government $80k. it does not actually cost the hospital nor the government $80 if the government was to cover the costs

so think about that
oh and by the way. dont beleive the 'i am american i want the choice of my healthcare' .. thats false. unless your willing to choose what town/state you are willing to move to. your choice is limited to whatever hospital is cleosest to your home/workplace because in reality thats the hospital your are most likely to get treated at.
also you cant then choose to just go to any random hospital or 'choose your doctor' because you have to be given the one within the contract of the insurance.
so its not a real freedom

in the UK i can go to any hospital. so if i go across the country and have an injury. ill get treated at no cost by the hospital near where i had the injury. no worry about transport no worry about if im covered. if i want to change my family doctor(GP) i can. its as easy as telling the doctors practice that i want to change. thats it. no new contracts or premiums or changes to insurance coverage. i just register at a different practice and that is it

[KonstantinosM]

Here's why health care is so expensive in the US. I'm quoting Kyle from "Secular Talk"

The US healthcare system is a scam, on top of a scam within a scam. Like, there's multiple levels and degrees of scamming going on.

Video title: Doctor Charged $10,984 For $8 Covid Test
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g9coGWppYg
https://www.propublica.org/article/a-doctor-went-to-his-own-employer-for-a-covid-19-antibody-test-it-cost-10-984

[franky1]

Here's why health care is so expensive in the US. I'm quoting Kyle from "Secular Talk"

The US healthcare system is a scam, on top of a scam within a scam. Like, there's multiple levels and degrees of scamming going on.

Video title: Doctor Charged $10,984 For $8 Covid Test
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g9coGWppYg
https://www.propublica.org/article/a-doctor-went-to-his-own-employer-for-a-covid-19-antibody-test-it-cost-10-984

the insurance do not actually pay the $10k
they say its $10k. if the person was uninsured. because they know that a third of uninsured people default so they ramp up the cost to cover those that default
also to get the real money from people via the co-pay. they have to ramp up the fake cost to make it look like they are getting a great deal on it

what actually happens is that although there is a $10k charge. they actually settle for only a couple hundred to cover the doctors 20 minute consultation the receptionists 10 minutes check-in. and the costs of PPE and test

yep when people have a $10k debt for not having insurance they could actually negociate a pennies on the dollar settlement or claim bankrupcy.
insurance companies are happy to sell $10k of 'debt' to debt collectors for just $200 as its a break even amount
and thats how insurance companies never lose
the pennies on the dollar selloff of unclaimed debt covers their cost.

[franky1]

as for college tuition. this can be done very cheap too
home learning. in the UK there is the 'open university' that has been around for decades. and it can be very cheap to run 'remote learning courses'. the student also saves on not having to pay for a special college dorm as they just stay home with family

this way all people that cant afford proper college can still learn the stuff but without all the premium experiences. thus just get through the courses and pass.
i think education needs to change anyway. i would love to see all college tutors video their classes/lectures and have them on a youtube style platform where people can actually select their favourite tutor and can vote on which tutor/lecturer teaches a certain subject in a certain favoured style. thus student can choose their lecturer.
the lecturer gets paid per view. thus by being a good lecturer and earning votes/views means the best lecturers get paid the most. all while making it very little cost to the student/government budget

[OgNasty]

Does anyone fear that free healthcare disrupts natural selection and wonder what long term effects will result?

[KonstantinosM]

Here's why health care is so expensive in the US. I'm quoting Kyle from "Secular Talk"

The US healthcare system is a scam, on top of a scam within a scam. Like, there's multiple levels and degrees of scamming going on.

Video title: Doctor Charged $10,984 For $8 Covid Test
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g9coGWppYg
https://www.propublica.org/article/a-doctor-went-to-his-own-employer-for-a-covid-19-antibody-test-it-cost-10-984

the insurance do not actually pay the $10k
they say its $10k. if the person was uninsured. because they know that a third of uninsured people default so they ramp up the cost to cover those that default
also to get the real money from people via the co-pay. they have to ramp up the fake cost to make it look like they are getting a great deal on it

what actually happens is that although there is a $10k charge. they actually settle for only a couple hundred to cover the doctors 20 minute consultation the receptionists 10 minutes check-in. and the costs of PPE and test

yep when people have a $10k debt for not having insurance they could actually negociate a pennies on the dollar settlement or claim bankrupcy.
insurance companies are happy to sell $10k of 'debt' to debt collectors for just $200 as its a break even amount
and thats how insurance companies never lose
the pennies on the dollar selloff of unclaimed debt covers their cost.

There's no reason to doubt that the health insurance actually paid the 10k in that case. And since it was covered there's no debt either, so that's irrelevant.

What insurance does when throwing out a little of their blood money (in that case 10k) is demonstrate its power and its usefulness. In all likelihood they've already made 10k in premiums from that client alone already.

They need that image that without us you're lost. They could even afford to lose money on 3 clients out of 10 and just because of the amounts involved they'd still be making out like bandits.

Healthcare should be one of the pillars of a society. I grew up in Greece. Hospitals felt sacred. A place for people to heal. The atmosphere of a strong social institution.

And private practices had a different character too. You'd have doctors work in both their private practice and the state hospital.

I had the privilege to visit a doctor in both settings.

The character of private practices in a country were healthcare is not a scam is similar to getting a hair cut or any other service. But doctors command more respect. And they also appreciate you more.

Here in the states you're made to wait inordinate amounts of times and people try to fleece you. Hidden charges. Extra charges that come in the mail. People not being able to tell you what your bill will be for simple things like fucking vaccines or STD checks.

Interacting with the healthcare system in the US is so unpleasant, I gave myself some stitches with a needle I bent to a hook like shape all bymyself. Even though I had health insurance.


College should also be free. Where I come from both college and trade schools are free and as long as you qualify to get in you only have to pay for books. It's the least a society can do as every dollar spent on keeping people healthy and allowing them to get a good education probably brings 10 dollars back to society. We're infinitely worse off without offering these things to the population. I'm glad that the military at least is not privately run for profit.

[franky1]

Does anyone fear that free healthcare disrupts natural selection and wonder what long term effects will result?

only americans that never experienced free healthcare.
so about 320m out of 7.5bill..= 4.2% of the world fears free healthcare

[Mttewndew]

Judging by the content of some of the posts, and what I see on Reddit, the quality of education is terribly low. Perhaps it is precisely because a minimal number of people have access to a good education.
I used free medicine and it was great. You know that no matter what happens to you, you will be cured, put in order, and at the same time you will not owe anyone half of your house.

How to arrange it? There is one simple answer to this. Soc****sm. This is a proven solution that has worked for decades. Of course, such a success cannot be viewed calmly from across the ocean, and therefore everything was sabotaged. You just need to study what it is and how it works carefully. Preferably in neutral and non-biased sources. Although, of course, no one will study this, because it is easier to pounce on everyone who mentions this word with poison, without even understanding the matter carefully.

[Salauddin1994]

If the college were to be free for all in the united states in the field of healthcare many would be able to receive free medical care because many who are affected by the effects of the epidemic cannot afford to spend more on medical care properly due to lack of funds it will not last long, the united states will suffer a lot. Starting a business requires planning making important financial decisions and completing a bunch of legal activities the small business association provides information on how to start a business in the united states.

[Mauser]

In my opinion there needs a form of higher education that is available for everyone, even if you can't pay tuition. Having colleges across the country without tuition would be a good start to increase eductation levels for many people. But, there needs to difference in eduction, we can't have all the same level of education and being taught the exact same things. To attract the best professors in the world to ivy league universities the salary must be higher than on an average college. Otherwise a lot of teachers would prefer a job in the private sector.

[peter0425]

do you think Healthcare and College should be free for all in the US? If so, how do you recommend they find it?

Nope ,Why need to free colleges?that is a  Parental obligation,Do you mean the parents will just Enjoy their lives while the government is providing education for their children?

thats unfair mate,the healthcare may sounds good But only for those people "Without Vices" because if not then The system will be abused because imagine i can Drink,and Smoke and drugs and when i get sick the government will Help me go Better?

That is Impossible to happen and will never get in real .



Maybe those who cannot afford to bring their children to college but it will be loan that the student must pay after he graduated.

[o_e_l_e_o]

That is Impossible to happen and will never get in real

Ahh yes, impossible, if you ignore the fact that it happens in almost every other developed nation in the world except the US.

[Renampun]

do you think Healthcare and College should be free for all in the US? If so, how do you recommend they find it?

The tax charged for Americans is already high, so it is appropriate that health and education costs are free...
btw, I speak globally, not just for US citizens only,the governments around the world should make free health and education, but there are still terms and conditions.

[Jet Cash]

Just as a matter of interest, why is it still called "health care"? It seems that the people who spend the most on it ( or have it spent on them ) are the unhealthiest people.

[Dorodha]

The government of every country should give more priority to health care and education. The poorer sections of the population are more dependent on these two sectors. They died prematurely due to lack of treatment the governments of all countries including the United States should make them available free of charge. the country will reach the peak of development if the poor talented people like various organizations have such opportunities.