POS a typical Rich gets Richer scam

[Tash]

Coin "any" minimum staking requirement 100 coins, reward 10%                        
                        
Rich with 1000 coins can stake 10               Sucker has only 100 coins, 1 stake         
Start with 10                       1000   10%         100   10%      Start with 1
Now he can stake with 11   1100   10%         110   10%      staking 1 and has dust
Now staking 12                   1210   10%         121   10%      1 and more dust
......                                     1331   10%         133   10%      ....
                                           1464   10%         146   10%      
                                           1611   10%         161   10%      
                                           1772   10%         177   10%      
                                           1949   10%         195   10%      
He can now stake with 21  2144   10%         214   10%   Gets reward from 2 stakes now
                                           2358   10%         236   10%      
                                           2594   10%         259   10%      
                                           2853   10%         285   10%      
                                    31   3138   10%         314   10%   Ha, 3 now getting rich   
                                           3452   10%         345   10%      
                                           3797   10%         380   10%      
                                           4177   10%         418   10%      
                                           4595   10%         459   10%      
                                           5054   10%         505   10%      
                                           5560   10%         556   10%      
                                           6116   10%         612   10%      
                                           6727   10%         673   10%      
                                           7400   10%         740   10%      
                                           8140   10%         814   10%      
                                           8954   10%         895   10%      
                                           9850   10%         985   10%      
Staking 108 now               10835   10%        1083  10%   Staking 10 now   
                        
Well, one started with 10% more, both staked at 10% and one has become 8% richer at this stage. Next is 119 to 11.......                  
But, the rich guy screams from the corner there are services which offer to stake fractions of a coin.                         
YES, only makes things worse, as the rich (exchange) now not only staking more also collects fees from 10 guys (or what ever many it takes to make another full stake).             
         

[Tash]

Its clear why POS is a proven failure. Everything being equal 10% richer should stay 10% richer

[pixie85]

But this is how the economy works everywhere you go. You want to have your own food business? Have 1000 dollars all you can do is a hot dog stand or sell popcorn.
You have 10 thousand you can get an RV and make burgers or something. When you have 100k you can get a small place of your own, make pizza, or get a fast food franchise. You have a million, you can start a proper restaurant.

The more money you put in the bigger you get. Mining is the same.

[Tash]

That is certainly not how the world works. 10 workers to the work of 10, 100 workers to the work of 100 and not of 108 after set amount of time.
If the world does work like so its time for a change. Fair wage for fair work.

[deeameea27]

I think yes some people who scam try to scam always , even if is with crypto coins or with others , but people should no more trust on all coins and if have been scammed once to stop do again same mistake.

[worle1bm]

True. Proof of Work is far better than Proof of Stake concept. People advocate that PoS saves intense utilization of electricity and other resources which are needed in PoW. But at the end of the day, utilization of such resources are making crypto stronger and more valuable. We are not producing something commercial for mass consumption. We are generating valuable asset and Proof of Stake is appropriate option.

Proof of Work is like democracy while Proof of Stake is monarchy. 

[serjent05]

@OP do you have any idea on how to fix this problem?  POS, those who have lots of coins can get lots of stakes.   POW, those who have lots of mining machine can get huge hashes and can get the largest percentage on the mining pool.  This is a money game and those who have lots sure have a huge advantage except if you are talented and clever enough to outdo their richness.

True. Proof of Work is far better than Proof of Stake concept. People advocate that PoS saves intense utilization of electricity and other resources which are needed in PoW. But at the end of the day, utilization of such resources are making crypto stronger and more valuable. We are not producing something commercial for mass consumption. We are generating valuable asset and Proof of Stake is appropriate option.

Proof of Work is like democracy while Proof of Stake is monarchy.  

They have the same rules but different in approach.  One with lots of coins while the other one is with lots of mining machines.  Either way, only rich people can compete on that.  

                     
YES, only makes things worse, as the rich (exchange) now not only staking more also collects fees from 10 guys (or what ever many it takes to make another full stake).             
         

Excuse me?  I think providing service can be done by anyone who is knowledgeable of the staking system and be able to create the needed program.  Even those who do not have any staking coins can provide this kind of service.  So stop whining about this kind of thing instead, start gearing yourself of the knowledge that is needed to run a staking service and offer it to those who need it.  Once you are ready with the staking service, the only problem lies ahead is how you can prove that you can be trusted.

[worle1bm]

True. Proof of Work is far better than Proof of Stake concept. People advocate that PoS saves intense utilization of electricity and other resources which are needed in PoW. But at the end of the day, utilization of such resources are making crypto stronger and more valuable. We are not producing something commercial for mass consumption. We are generating valuable asset and Proof of Stake is appropriate option.

Proof of Work is like democracy while Proof of Stake is monarchy.  

They have the same rules but different in approach.  One with lots of coins while the other one is with lots of mining machines.  Either way, only rich people can compete on that.  

Not really.
Mining is not controlled by individuals in case of big cap coins like Bitcoin and Ethereum. They are mined by pools. In pool, thousands of individuals collaborate their hashing power to mine the block. For example, Poolin alone have over 650K miners and they mine only around 18% of the blocks, so imagine how many more are engaged for the mining of rest of the 82%. The system of pooling maintains the decentralization in PoW system.

[shinratensei_]

Its clear why POS is a proven failure. Everything being equal 10% richer should stay 10% richer

That's different from the POW consensus that puts fair distribution at the top of everything.
But POS can be considered as security token which means the holders must receive what they deserve from their security tokens. This is not fair for the small holders but again we must back to the definition of POW (proof of ownership) if how much percentage that owned by user determine how much they will receive but the main thing that can't be tolerated caused by the pre-mined coin that applied in this case.

[Javi_Anibarro]

Not really.
Mining is not controlled by individuals in case of big cap coins like Bitcoin and Ethereum. They are mined by pools. In pool, thousands of individuals collaborate their hashing power to mine the block. For example, Poolin alone have over 650K miners and they mine only around 18% of the blocks, so imagine how many more are engaged for the mining of rest of the 82%. The system of pooling maintains the decentralization in PoW system.

The mining reward is controlled by those who own the hardware, it can be an organization or an individual. The more hardware you have the higher your reward will be, it is the same scheme. What is the point of running a lot of mining hardware in PoW if you get the same amount of reward when mining?
PoS and PoW have the same system in their reward. This is not only working in here but in real life, you will see it too.

[Bitbtc8]

True. Proof of Work is far better than Proof of Stake concept. People advocate that PoS saves intense utilization of electricity and other resources which are needed in PoW. But at the end of the day, utilization of such resources are making crypto stronger and more valuable. We are not producing something commercial for mass consumption. We are generating valuable asset and Proof of Stake is appropriate option.

Proof of Work is like democracy while Proof of Stake is monarchy. 

You are right but won't POW be better if they are still profitable? once their mining difficulty rise up it become a problem for new comers who wants to mine the coin, POS and POW has their advantages and disadvantages, its left for people to choose, as for me I prefer POS

[kindbtc]

I think bigger coins like btc and eth should have a hybrid model where both pow and pos can merge with a new and unique algorithm that should be energy efficient with no physical equipment requirement other than computer or smartphone and does all the work like the networks require in pow algorithm, this will address the fans of both pos and pow, i do like pow more myself but expensive equipment, high energy cost and massive carbon output has just out weighed the benefits of pow and there is need for improvement.

[Tash]

I think bigger coins like btc and eth should have a hybrid model where both pow and pos can merge with a new and unique algorithm that should be energy efficient with no physical equipment requirement other than computer or smartphone and does all the work like the networks require in pow algorithm, this will address the fans of both pos and pow, i do like pow more myself but expensive equipment, high energy cost and massive carbon output has just out weighed the benefits of pow and there is need for improvement.

In Bitcoins case energy usage is more or less halves every 4 years with the new coin production cut by 50% as old equipment is retired for being uneconomical. Energy usage is not a issue, Banks use lots more.

[Febo]

POS a typical Rich gets Richer scam

It is more like in PoS those that dont stake lose. So Those that stake steal from those that dont.  Lets say a coin marketcap is 10 million USD. That is how much project is worth. There are 10 million coins and in one year time 1 fresh million will be given to those that stake. So there will be 11 million coins. Project did not get any new value and is still worth $10 millions, but there are now 11 million coins. so value of each coin decrease. Those that staked get more coins so value of their bag increase. Those that did not stake and have same number of coins, their bag lost value.


All PoS coins or any coins that have some part PoS schemes are scams.

[avikz]

The OP has got it all wrong. If I have to go by his examples, then I must admit the POW is even bigger scheme for the riches to get even richer. To start a successful and profitable mining operation requires more money than start staking! Also for POW, the hardware needs to be replaced after few years of time which calls for an even bigger investment. But for POS, you don't loose ownership of your staked coins! There is only one similarity is that, both requires a good amount of initial investment to start.

Op, please think before writing! POW is costlier than POS which only riches can afford right at this moment!

[livingfree]

It is why PoS was called to be the rich getting richer scheme.

But it's all about how you are going to be wise with your money. You have a choice to invest to PoW but obviously, it will require you that much. While in PoS coins, you only need to purchase it and hold it and wait for your rewards.

This is a very good opportunity for everyone of us but not all PoS coins should be trusted.

[Tash]

POS a typical Rich gets Richer scam

It is more like in PoS those that dont stake lose. So Those that stake steal from those that dont.  Lets say a coin marketcap is 10 million USD. That is how much project is worth. There are 10 million coins and in one year time 1 fresh million will be given to those that stake. So there will be 11 million coins. Project did not get any new value and is still worth $10 millions, but there are now 11 million coins. so value of each coin decrease. Those that staked get more coins so value of their bag increase. Those that did not stake and have same number of coins, their bag lost value.


All PoS coins or any coins that have some part PoS schemes are scams.

On average the past 5 years the few Peercoin stakers got 776605 per year with a 1% fixed flat reward.
Average price for 2019 $0,393 * 738615 = $290275,70  for about 220 transactions a day.

Year	Supply	New Coins	% per year
2012	15094912	15094912	58,38%
2013	20982872	5887960	22,77%
2014	21971814	988942	3,82%
2015	22867470	895656	3,46%
2016	23738826	871356	3,37%
2017	24544131	805305	3,11%
2018	25116222	572091	2,21%
2019	25854837	738615	2,86%

[suzanne5223]

True. Proof of Work is far better than Proof of Stake concept. People advocate that PoS saves intense utilization of electricity and other resources which are needed in PoW. But at the end of the day, utilization of such resources are making crypto stronger and more valuable. We are not producing something commercial for mass consumption. We are generating valuable asset and Proof of Stake is appropriate option.

Proof of Work is like democracy while Proof of Stake is monarchy. 

You can say that but i disagree with you and i dont see it as a scam scheme as the OP claimed because the POS was implemented as a way to make people hold more of their crypto than selling it. Besides, the last time i checked all the project that have implemented the POS so far are doing pretty good in the market.
Although, we all have different point of view but i want you to know that if POS was monarchy others wont have add it to their platform.

[Flux0z]

Don't see anything wrong?

The early investors buying low takes the BIGGEST risk, while those who buy 6 months later takes a MUCH smaller risk when investing. If there isn't any benefit to investing early on, there wouldn't hardly be anyone willing to take that risk and hold on for the long term, as once the price would rise, they'd dump the price down on everyone else getting in.

Same as when you hold money in the bank, the rich people gets a larger amount in dividends anually, but still the same percentage as everyone else, same thing really

If you look at masternode coins like Blocknet, which had a 70% reward for nodes, and 30% for stakers, you kind of see the same pattern, yet.. They recently changed it up, so that everyone can stake, even the node owners. Some where happy about this fact, some not. They did this to further decentralize the network, which is pretty cool.

[serjent05]

True. Proof of Work is far better than Proof of Stake concept. People advocate that PoS saves intense utilization of electricity and other resources which are needed in PoW. But at the end of the day, utilization of such resources are making crypto stronger and more valuable. We are not producing something commercial for mass consumption. We are generating valuable asset and Proof of Stake is appropriate option.

Proof of Work is like democracy while Proof of Stake is monarchy.  

They have the same rules but different in approach.  One with lots of coins while the other one is with lots of mining machines.  Either way, only rich people can compete on that.  

Not really.
Mining is not controlled by individuals in case of big cap coins like Bitcoin and Ethereum. They are mined by pools. In pool, thousands of individuals collaborate their hashing power to mine the block. For example, Poolin alone have over 650K miners and they mine only around 18% of the blocks, so imagine how many more are engaged for the mining of rest of the 82%. The system of pooling maintains the decentralization in PoW system.

I think we are not discussing decentralization or centralization here, the topic is about rich getting richer thing.  How coud a 100 MH/s mining power perform against a 1 TH/s mining power in the same pool?  Now tell me, are these two mining power got the same reward when a pool get a block?  Not the same amount of reward, yes?

Same as when you hold money in the bank, the rich people gets a larger amount in dividends anually, but still the same percentage as everyone else, same thing really

!00% wrong because if you have 1 dollar you get same % Bank interest as some one with 1000 dollar with staking you must have x amount otherwise you get nothing.

Doesn't bank needs a minimum balance to get a % bank interest?  For me, it is the same as staking when you say one must have a minimum amount of coins to stake.