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Author Topic: The Objective Standards Guild - Testimonium Libertatem Iustitia  (Read 5164 times)
TECSHARE (OP)
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February 24, 2020, 12:22:40 AM
 #201

You seem to be straying from any logical argument now and just projecting at this point.

1)  User doesn't like the tags they have been given by other users
2)  User proposes changes to the way tags are handed out
3)  User benefits if/when they are no longer tagged in a manner they don't approve of

Seems to follow logically to me.  Are you saying that doesn't sound self-serving?

1) I hit you in the face for no reason.
2) You propose I stop hitting you in the face.
3) You benefit from not being hit in the face.

Is your proposal self serving? I would say so. Is that wrong or dishonest? Seems like a stretch at best. In summary you are literally using the fact that I am being attacked to discredit my objections to it. You know what that is called? Circular logic.

If I proposed you stop hitting me in the face via the guise of a forum post proposing best practice for hitting people in the face objectively and providing a list of users I thought might be well-suited to judging when it's correct to hit people in the face, rather than simply just coming out and saying it?  Kinda, yeah.

Cool story bro. You are just talking out of your ass now. Noble effort though. I will work on honing my ESP skills so I can object to being abused via the trust system before it happens next time.
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February 24, 2020, 01:46:45 AM
Merited by JollyGood (1)
 #202


I didn't say you shouldn't respond.
And I didn't say that you did.
Quote
The problem is the conflict in logic demonstrated in your response.
I see no conflict in my logic. Do you see the conflict in yours?
Quote
You don't need to be conspiring to be part of an aimless mob, it is human nature to just mindlessly follow the group.
Much patronising wow. Literally everyone I know irl would piss themselves laughing at that as a description of me.
Quote
"You were told" huh? By who I wonder?
Oh please.
Quote
Please, do quote where I accused you of "violating existing forum trust protocol".
Your OP litany of rhetoric
Quote
harassment, threats, and intimidation.....stifle criticism, competition....culture of rampant and systematic abuse...a culture of nepotism
followed by your "Suggested Exclusion" blacklist, paints those on that list -including me- as conspirators in those actvities, all of which are antithetical to the existing protocol regarding use of the trust system.
I don't do any of that shit.
Quote
You were saying something about projection?
Nope, haven't used the word.
"Retaliation" I've used, in reference to your reaction to my exclusion of you. But yeah, I'll use it if you like.
In running your own anti-gang gang (interesting concept), you'll be able to project all sorts of solutions to your personal issues.




Extraordinary Claims require Extraordinary Evidence
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February 24, 2020, 04:53:15 AM
 #203

you and suchmoon may be here to attack people, but i am not.
LOL. That's objectively bullshit. Droning on about a misconception you had about what I meant when I said "the vast minority" which was clarified before you even started questioning me about it... Either you have poor reading comprehension or were mustering an attack, take your pick.

you can accept the truth (see below) or you can keep dwelling on a nothingburger.

the post you linked to was a direct reply to TECSHARE, not to me, so i didn't actually see it, since i was directly responding to nutildah. you are assuming malice where there was none. TECSHARE obviously interpreted nutildah's words the exact same way i did.

you can continue making mountains out of molehills, but this point still stands:
nutildah claimed i was in the "vast minority" here. i understood that to suggest by extension that he was speaking for the "vast majority" of board members, and said so here. i don't think that's an unreasonable assumption.

Right, so the "truth" is you continued to have a misconception about my words after I had already clarified what I meant. That renders your assumption unreasonable.

- If an account leaves a link to malware-laced software, do they deserve a red tag?

"fraud" is a necessary standard. i assume it would fall under "violation of applicable laws". intentional deception to secure unlawful gains seems to apply here. if we're talking about coin-stealing malware, then it constitutes theft as well. if proven, it seems tag-worthy.

- If an account is knowingly supporting an obvious Ponzi scheme, do they deserve a red tag?

this one is pretty loaded. what does "obvious" mean? do we actually know it's a ponzi scheme?

what do you mean by "supporting"? are we talking about actively operating the scheme, actively shilling for it? wearing a paid signature advertisement?

- If an account announces an ICO with a plagiarized white paper and fake team members, do they deserve a red tag?

if proven, this seems like another case of fraud. victims are being intentionally deceived for the operator's unfair gain. red tags seem okay under this scenario, assuming the proof is well-documented, but i'm curious to see if there are opposing arguments.

thank you for engaging in a real discussion about the topic. this is exactly the sort of stuff i'm hoping we can discuss and build consensus around.

As reasonable as they may be, I'm not really interested in your opinions on these subjects. These questions were directed at TECSHARE as he is the one who opened this thread. Your answers have been noted, however.

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 MΞTAWIN  THE FIRST WEB3 CASINO   
.
.. PLAY NOW ..
TECSHARE (OP)
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February 24, 2020, 06:18:19 AM
Last edit: February 24, 2020, 06:51:46 AM by TECSHARE
 #204


I didn't say you shouldn't respond.
And I didn't say that you did.
Quote
The problem is the conflict in logic demonstrated in your response.
I see no conflict in my logic. Do you see the conflict in yours?
Quote
You don't need to be conspiring to be part of an aimless mob, it is human nature to just mindlessly follow the group.
Much patronising wow. Literally everyone I know irl would piss themselves laughing at that as a description of me.
Quote
"You were told" huh? By who I wonder?
Oh please.
Quote
Please, do quote where I accused you of "violating existing forum trust protocol".
Your OP litany of rhetoric
Quote
harassment, threats, and intimidation.....stifle criticism, competition....culture of rampant and systematic abuse...a culture of nepotism
followed by your "Suggested Exclusion" blacklist, paints those on that list -including me- as conspirators in those actvities, all of which are antithetical to the existing protocol regarding use of the trust system.
I don't do any of that shit.
Quote
You were saying something about projection?
Nope, haven't used the word.
"Retaliation" I've used, in reference to your reaction to my exclusion of you. But yeah, I'll use it if you like.
In running your own anti-gang gang (interesting concept), you'll be able to project all sorts of solutions to your personal issues.

I already explained why I excluded you, and why you are on that list. You projecting your interpretation in bold above is not my responsibility. I didn't say those things about you, you said those things and are turning it into a straw man and expecting me to defend words I didn't say, but you are saying on my behalf.


Quote
Quote
You were saying something about projection?
Nope, haven't used the word.

You do entirely what you please, but if that includes projecting your agenda onto me, then I will respond.

You don't even know what you said let alone what I said.




On another note...


I saw this today and couldn't help but be reminded about this debate here regarding the fact that trust system abuse drives away good users.

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February 24, 2020, 07:37:24 AM
 #205

As reasonable as they may be, I'm not really interested in your opinions on these subjects. These questions were directed at TECSHARE as he is the one who opened this thread. Your answers have been noted, however.

oh. well that's disappointing. and here i thought this discussion was finally bearing some fruit. Sad

Right, so the "truth" is you continued to have a misconception about my words after I had already clarified what I meant.

that sounds truly awful of me, i admit. Tongue

that clarification was buried in a later reply to TECSHARE. naturally i didn't notice it because i was responding to your earlier post directed at me. you can blame me for not reading every subsequent post in the thread before replying to you, but that's about it. Cheesy

is this really worth beating a dead horse over, 9 pages later? it's pretty obviously a nothingburger.

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February 24, 2020, 12:31:13 PM
 #206

1) I hit you in the face for no reason.
2) You propose I stop hitting you in the face.
3) You benefit from not being hit in the face.

Is your proposal self serving? I would say so. Is that wrong or dishonest? Seems like a stretch at best. In summary you are literally using the fact that I am being attacked to discredit my objections to it. You know what that is called? Circular logic.

If I proposed you stop hitting me in the face via the guise of a forum post proposing best practice for hitting people in the face objectively and providing a list of users I thought might be well-suited to judging when it's correct to hit people in the face, rather than simply just coming out and saying it?  Kinda, yeah.

Cool story bro. You are just talking out of your ass now. Noble effort though. I will work on honing my ESP skills so I can object to being abused via the trust system before it happens next time.

Bolded part wasn't there when I hit reply.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's some sort of Machiavellian-esque plot.  You've just gone about it in what, to me at least, appears to be a slightly sly way.

Coming back to the logic part, you've included a list of suggested exclusions from this little brigade of yours.  How does excluding people from the group that would compel them to be more objective result in you achieving your goal of them not leaving you undesirable tags?  I'm not quite following that part. 

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February 24, 2020, 01:09:11 PM
 #207

that clarification was buried in a later reply to TECSHARE. naturally i didn't notice it because i was responding to your earlier post directed at me. you can blame me for not reading every subsequent post in the thread before replying to you, but that's about it. Cheesy

Dude... you kept going on about it for 2 or 3 more posts even after it was pointed out that you're talking shit.

As far as guild membership goes, I think you're fitting right in. It just needs to be renamed to The Never Wrong Guild and your flexible standards and ridiculous rhetoric will work just fine.
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February 24, 2020, 01:22:36 PM
 #208

Bolded part wasn't there when I hit reply.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's some sort of Machiavellian-esque plot.  You've just gone about it in what, to me at least, appears to be a slightly sly way.

Confirmed.

that clarification was buried in a later reply to TECSHARE. naturally i didn't notice it because i was responding to your earlier post directed at me. you can blame me for not reading every subsequent post in the thread before replying to you, but that's about it. Cheesy

Dude... you kept going on about it for 2 or 3 more posts even after it was pointed out that you're talking shit.

As far as guild membership goes, I think you're fitting right in. It just needs to be renamed to The Never Wrong Guild and your flexible standards and ridiculous rhetoric will work just fine.

NRG - Never Wrong Guild
Alea iacta est



Don't try to correct my acronym, its perfect.

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.
 MΞTAWIN  THE FIRST WEB3 CASINO   
.
.. PLAY NOW ..
TECSHARE (OP)
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February 24, 2020, 04:49:46 PM
 #209

Bolded part wasn't there when I hit reply.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's some sort of Machiavellian-esque plot.  You've just gone about it in what, to me at least, appears to be a slightly sly way.

Coming back to the logic part, you've included a list of suggested exclusions from this little brigade of yours.  How does excluding people from the group that would compel them to be more objective result in you achieving your goal of them not leaving you undesirable tags?  I'm not quite following that part. 

Don't project your personal interpretations on to me. I have been absolutely transparent in my goals and motives. You however have been trying really hard to use the fact that the trust system has been used against me as some kind of evidence that what I am arguing is not legitimate.... because the trust system has been abused against me.

The system is designed currently to allow people to make their own custom trust lists that users can change based on who's methodology they find most useful, of course like I explained before, when I do that it is evidence of "sly" practices. You aren't interested in a factual debate. You have a conclusion and you want to build a narrative around me to support it. You aren't interested in a legitimate debate about the topic. You are being quite disingenuous here yourself while accusing me of the same.
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February 24, 2020, 07:35:35 PM
 #210

that clarification was buried in a later reply to TECSHARE. naturally i didn't notice it because i was responding to your earlier post directed at me. you can blame me for not reading every subsequent post in the thread before replying to you, but that's about it. Cheesy

Dude... you kept going on about it for 2 or 3 more posts

that's because you and nutildah kept attacking me for it.......
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5226886.msg53882615#msg53882615
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5226886.msg53892511#msg53892511
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5226886.msg53893544#msg53893544

my bad, didn't realize i wasn't allowed to respond to claims about my character and motive.

As far as guild membership goes, I think you're fitting right in. It just needs to be renamed to The Never Wrong Guild and your flexible standards and ridiculous rhetoric will work just fine.

never wrong? i admitted i accidentally misinterpreted what nutildah said, quite a while ago. that seems like a weak basis for this ad hominem attack.

it seems like anyone who wanted to have a serious discussion is long gone. successful derailment guys! i'm done here.

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February 24, 2020, 08:06:04 PM
 #211

my bad, didn't realize i wasn't allowed to respond to claims about my character and motive.

Am I allowed to respond to your response, or is that one of them non-standard things?

You did the same thing in the Quickseller thread, so spare me the bullshit about your character and motive and ardor for a serious discussion when you just make shit up to support your argument, and throw a tantrum when your word is not taken as gospel.

Any news on standard compliance within your trust list? Have you come up with serious guild-approved excuses yet?
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February 24, 2020, 10:01:20 PM
 #212

Any news on standard compliance within your trust list? Have you come up with serious guild-approved excuses yet?
If number of negative feedback is lower than number of negative feedback which suggested exclusion sent
    then welcome to guild
        else suggested exclusion.
TECSHARE (OP)
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February 24, 2020, 11:02:25 PM
 #213

~

Stop making everything about you figmentofmyass! You are supposed to sit silent and let everyone lie about you. Doing anything else is narcissistic and dishonest!
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February 24, 2020, 11:11:09 PM
 #214

Does this guild have a sarcasm limit?


https://nastyscam.com - landing page up     https://vod.fan - advanced image hosting - coming soon!
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February 25, 2020, 07:41:40 AM
Last edit: February 25, 2020, 08:43:54 AM by truth or dare
 #215

that clarification was buried in a later reply to TECSHARE. naturally i didn't notice it because i was responding to your earlier post directed at me. you can blame me for not reading every subsequent post in the thread before replying to you, but that's about it. Cheesy

Dude... you kept going on about it for 2 or 3 more posts

that's because you and nutildah kept attacking me for it.......
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5226886.msg53882615#msg53882615
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5226886.msg53892511#msg53892511
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5226886.msg53893544#msg53893544

my bad, didn't realize i wasn't allowed to respond to claims about my character and motive.

As far as guild membership goes, I think you're fitting right in. It just needs to be renamed to The Never Wrong Guild and your flexible standards and ridiculous rhetoric will work just fine.

never wrong? i admitted i accidentally misinterpreted what nutildah said, quite a while ago. that seems like a weak basis for this ad hominem attack.

it seems like anyone who wanted to have a serious discussion is long gone. successful derailment guys! i'm done here.

This is exactly what they want you to say. They want to shift focus, attack your character, derail and drive you out.

Don't let them do it over and over again.

Stick to the core points that are indisputable.

* The trust system should provide accurate, credible, quality warnings for scammers, those that are trying to scam or attempting to set up scams. There must be objective independently verifiable evidence of direct financial threat or the huge list of undeniably net negative insoluble problems is generated.

Stick to this inviolable truth and they have no argument that will stand up to scrutiny.

You guys are making it very easy for them to throw doubt on the objectivity of those standards that form the basis of the guild.

A list of all those that agree to operate within objective standards that have been repeated time and time again.

Notice how suchmoon and malboroza or any other critic dare not refute the or even try to form any rebuttal against the implementation of those objective standards.

They only want to pick apart the past behaviors of those in the lists. I expect since it has been fully acceptable for people to give lemonade drinkers red tags for a while that nobody will have upheld impeccable standards for their entire history. Of course their own lists likely include those that have abused trust far more regulatory and ruthlessly.

That makes no difference to them at all. They will operate as they always do: if they can not defeat your core and central points they will find any other minor detail, irrelevant or unimportant detail or even just make things up to list and discredit the possibility of losing their favorite, subjective, and manipulated weapon :the red tag.

Losing the subjective excuse to abuse people and maintain their advantage in many areas, including financial selfish gain, is going to mean they will try anything to prevent objective independently verifiable standards that ensure all members are treated equally are introduced.

Stop playing right into their hands.  Force them into one open decision:

support a shift to an objective standard or produce and argument that stands up to scrutiny. That argument does not exist. There is room to crush every aspect of their argument, and still maintain clear objective definable standards and removal the insoluble problems.

Stop allowing them to focus on non essential details that are not required for the shift to an objective standard to take place.

Who cares who makes the choices and warnings so long as they are accurate, credible, valuable warnings that prevent scammers, those attempting to or setting up scams from operating unanswered.

Neg tags need removal. Neutral or positive only and the warnings are taken care of by flags and only for those posing direct financial threat.

How hard can it be to realize there has been no possible counter argument that will stand up to scrutiny? don't give them any other non essential details to cling on to.

Failure to support the objective standard for warnings going forward can get you on the excluded list no problem.  The lists will be dynamic anyway and being added on either will only be that members own choice to operate and abide by the objective standards or not.

I have not seen one valid argument stand against the core ideology or goals of the guild. Only trying to pick holes in the lists. Take away their detailing material, we don't even need it.

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February 25, 2020, 02:10:09 PM
 #216

Any news on standard compliance within your trust list? Have you come up with serious guild-approved excuses yet?
If number of negative feedback is lower than number of negative feedback which suggested exclusion sent
    then welcome to guild
        else suggested exclusion.

It's more like.

If ( user follows Core tenets)
  {
      "Welcome to the Object Standards Guild";
  }
else if ( user regularly and repeatedly ignores the Core tenets)
  {
     Suggested exclusion;
  }

Simple to understand, your code seems totally based on your own double standards perspective.
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February 25, 2020, 03:21:51 PM
 #217

Any news on standard compliance within your trust list? Have you come up with serious guild-approved excuses yet?
If number of negative feedback is lower than number of negative feedback which suggested exclusion sent
    then welcome to guild
        else suggested exclusion.

It's more like.

If ( user follows Core tenets)
  {
      "Welcome to the Object Standards Guild";
  }
else if ( user regularly and repeatedly ignores the Core tenets)
  {
     Suggested exclusion;
  }

Simple to understand, your code seems totally based on your own double standards perspective.
So you basically repeated what I said.

If you want to talk about not objective double standards of "objective" guild, start from here:


----------------------------------------

"if user regularly and repeatedly ignores the Core tenets"

So you claim this is it, but you agreed with tecshare's reasoning for exclusion of forum member tmfp?  Huh You morons are suggesting users to exclude someone who fights against crypto scams.


This is more like:

If "I" like you
then welcome to objective standard guild
else excuses and suggested exclusion.

Can you please post number of allowed trust abuses (according to guild rules)? Just to make sure people who are in this guild don't cross their allowed abuse(abuse, according to core tenets) limits. Just hit me with the number.
TECSHARE (OP)
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February 25, 2020, 04:18:59 PM
 #218

Any news on standard compliance within your trust list? Have you come up with serious guild-approved excuses yet?
If number of negative feedback is lower than number of negative feedback which suggested exclusion sent
    then welcome to guild
        else suggested exclusion.

It's more like.

If ( user follows Core tenets)
  {
      "Welcome to the Object Standards Guild";
  }
else if ( user regularly and repeatedly ignores the Core tenets)
  {
     Suggested exclusion;
  }

Simple to understand, your code seems totally based on your own double standards perspective.
So you basically repeated what I said.

If you want to talk about not objective double standards of "objective" guild, start from here:


----------------------------------------

"if user regularly and repeatedly ignores the Core tenets"

So you claim this is it, but you agreed with tecshare's reasoning for exclusion of forum member tmfp?  Huh You morons are suggesting users to exclude someone who fights against crypto scams.


This is more like:

If "I" like you
then welcome to objective standard guild
else excuses and suggested exclusion.

Can you please post number of allowed trust abuses (according to guild rules)? Just to make sure people who are in this guild don't cross their allowed abuse(abuse, according to core tenets) limits. Just hit me with the number.

Nigeria has a lot of scammers right? If I nuked Nigeria I would objectively be "fighting scammers" now wouldn't I? "Fighting scammers" is easy if you have little to no concern about innocents. Yes yes, I am sure your evidence free suspicion is above reproach and you never ever catch innocent people up in your OCD dragnet... not that anyone is watching the watchers.
tmfp
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February 25, 2020, 05:46:44 PM
 #219


Nigeria has a lot of scammers right? If I nuked Nigeria I would objectively be "fighting scammers" now wouldn't I?
Juvenile strawman rhetoric.
Quote
"Fighting scammers" is easy if you have little to no concern about innocents.
That's precisely the reason for doing it, "a concern for innocents".
Quote
Yes yes, I am sure your evidence free suspicion is above reproach 
What "evidence free" suspicion?
Red trust should be reference linked to the reasoning behind it.
Quote
and you never ever catch innocent people up in your OCD dragnet
More flowery strawman bullshit from the king of OCD.
Quote
... not that anyone is watching the watchers.
The whole forum watches.
Anyone who wants to object to my posts or my feedback is more than welcome to dispute them, show me where I'm wrong.
Quote
tecshare's reasoning for exclusion of forum member tmfp?
I have no interst in being a poster child in this nonsense, but it's simple: retaliation for my exclusion of him. He now wants his anti gang gang to copy it.
Pick thru his tedious narrative above for his changing "reasons" for it.

Put me on your fucking blacklist, accuse me of shit that I don't do: standard right wing American control bullshit masquerading as being "in the public interest".




Extraordinary Claims require Extraordinary Evidence
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February 25, 2020, 06:00:36 PM
 #220

~
While waiting hacker1001101001 to reply, I noticed that you avoided few observable instances regarding Objective Standards Guild https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5226886.msg53895539#msg53895539, please...
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