Destroying Bitcoin with a single question

[XCANA]

As per opinion, we shouldn't feed this troll with the needed information because he/she choose to remain in the dark forever. People such cannibal are left with their thought in their lower abdomen. Let me ask you this: how is it possible to have something that's decentralized and atoll be backed by something? I mean, something centralized? I mean, something like shits?. This'd the reason why Bitcoin cannot be backed by anything like gold or the fiat. It has been one success and the other with Bitcoin and you're here causing FUD, shame on you all who can't leave this forum.

[1715071603]

1715071603

[antikvark]

As per opinion, we shouldn't feed this troll with the needed information because he/she choose to remain in the dark forever. People such cannibal are left with their thought in their lower abdomen. Let me ask you this: how is it possible to have something that's decentralized and atoll be backed by something? I mean, something centralized? I mean, something like shits?. This'd the reason why Bitcoin cannot be backed by anything like gold or the fiat. It has been one success and the other with Bitcoin and you're here causing FUD, shame on you all who can't leave this forum.

Well, it is impossible to have something that's decentralized and backed by something. That's why decentralization is a perfect way to organize Ponzi schemes - as they are backed by nothing. That's the whole point.

[coolcoinz]

OP all your assumptions are based on us buying bitcoins and then being unable to take real value from them because of not selling.

What if I got my bitcoins for free? What if I earned them when they were worth only a few dollars. I literally wrote a few posts a couple years ago and got 0.1 BTC for it.
To me the value invested is almost non existent so i'm not eager to sell now. I did work worth maybe 1000 USD at the time and after a few years are holding coins with the value of 100k USD. I got my 1k back long time ago and all that I hold now is free money.

Now let's talk about selling. I don't want fiat, I want potential value and security so for me the situation with BTC growing on my wallet is ideal. I have enough money to live by and I prefer to have an investment than another car to drive on weekends.

I won't sell because I want to avoid exchanges and their fees. I prefer to wait until I'm able to convert my coins directly into physical items without a middle man. I don't know how that "destroys bitcoin".

[FatFork]

I was sure the internet has something appropriate for the occasion.


Thanks to DjMethod from imgur.com

[cml2019]

~snip~

Is your fiat could be suspect for any money laundering activity? Yes.
Can bitcoin could be used for such activities? No.

Stop being a big spender, give value to your life that once you die we could mourn

[XCANA]

As per opinion, we shouldn't feed this troll with the needed information because he/she choose to remain in the dark forever. People such cannibal are left with their thought in their lower abdomen. Let me ask you this: how is it possible to have something that's decentralized and atoll be backed by something? I mean, something centralized? I mean, something like shits?. This'd the reason why Bitcoin cannot be backed by anything like gold or the fiat. It has been one success and the other with Bitcoin and you're here causing FUD, shame on you all who can't leave this forum.

Well, it is impossible to have something that's decentralized and backed by something. That's why decentralization is a perfect way to organize Ponzi schemes - as they are backed by nothing. That's the whole point.

What about the centralized fiats, are they not still be used for ponzi scheme? Have your Central Banks stop the production of bank notes? What about money laundering in your country by political classes? Am not dumbed and will not be dumb to your unfounded analysis. Keep it up, we're not going to sell our Bitcoin for now because people like me saw a value in it toah!!.

[mk4]

Receiving bitcoin for the sake of receiving it is also what I can do with someone's Excel record.

Yeah sure, but your excel record is centralized and can easily easily be shutdown by centralized entities if they really wanted to. The Bitcoin blockchain on the other hand, is far far FAR less vulnerable to whatever attacks.

I will repeat: the whole point of this topic is the question how can you benefit from bitcoins without selling them to someone.

I just gave you an example of how you can use bitcoin without selling it. Bitcoin. is. money. You spend it, you receive it, you save it. Not that hard to understand the concept of hard money.

[johnyj]

Well, it is impossible to have something that's decentralized and backed by something. That's why decentralization is a perfect way to organize Ponzi schemes - as they are backed by nothing. That's the whole point.

All the ponzi schemes are backed by a centralized organization. If no one backs it, then it can not be a ponzi scheme, just like no one backs gold, it is just widely accepted as a valuable thing

The key question is where does this wide acceptance come from, it is coming from something like religion: If you believe it has value, then it will have value, driven by your action under your belief

[enhu]

The one person who kept such argument come to surface very time is Peter Schiff who apparently own some Bitcoin which his wallet forgot his password.  He soon asked for help to recover his BTC despite it backed by nothing as he claimed. Bitcoin has been around for a decade and yet not even a single government had successfully stopped BTC from growing, this is because THAT QUESTION is a question from someone who hasn't grasp the reality that BTC is here to stay.

[serjent05]

Finally, let's suppose that you bought all the bitcoins in the world and you decide not to sell them. How can you benefit from them? To put it another way. After said purchase, all you have is a number in a computer memory - 18.232.575 (bitcoins currently in circulation). Let's suppose that I open my Excel spreadsheet and put the same number into it -> 18.232.575. Now we both have equal records in a computer memory. Question: what can you do with your record that I cannot do with mine? Can you liquidate it like stock are liquidated and get the equity of some company? No. Me neither. Can you transfer it to another memory location. Yes. Me either. Can you take it to some institution or middleman such as bank and claim its property? No. Me neither. Can you observe it? Yes. Me either. Can you eat it? No. Me neither. Can you enjoy its numerical form? Yes. Me either. Can you drive it? No. Me neither. Can you take picture of it? Yes. Me either. So simply put, there is nothing what you can do with your record that I cannot do with mine.

But one thing you can't do, you cannot move my BTC to other address as long as you don't have my private key while I can create the same excel as you are because I have an MS excel program in my pc and type the number you typed on the same cell with the same font and style thus making us both have the same work format.  I thought this is just a single question but then, I have seen lots.  If you are so fed up with BTC because of its high volatility  or how it functions then no one is stopping you from leaving the crypto sphere.  

Meaning, all the bitcoins in the world are woth the same as a number that one puts into his/her Excel spreadsheet. And you can benefit from it only if you fool someone to trade their valuable property, work or fiat currencies for this number. To put it differently. The same as in all ponzi-like schemes, no actual value exists behind bitcoin, and the only way one can get actual value, is from funds brought by new investors. And that's Bitcoin in a nutshell - good old Ponzi scheme dressed up in a new, digital, uniform.

No they are not the same, you cannot sell your number on that excel but I can sell my Bitcoin on the market because there is a demand for it.  

And if you are talking about the Ponzi scheme, pretty much everything in the market is a Ponzi scheme, you buy it low then you wait for some fool to buy it at a higher price.  It does not seem different in how Bitcoin Market work.

[iluvbitcoins]

But one thing you can't do, you cannot move my BTC to other address as long as you don't have my private key while I can create the same excel as you are because I have an MS excel program in my pc and type the number you typed on the same cell with the same font and style thus making us both have the same work format.  I thought this is just a single question but then, I have seen lots.  If you are so fed up with BTC because of its high volatility  or how it functions then no one is stopping you from leaving the crypto sphere

He joined specifically to argue about Bitcoin. If you look at his post history, his first post and all of his posts are just rants. He never was into the cryptosphere. Don't know what kind of a person spends so much time arguing with strangers online without any monetary incentive though.

[marlboroza]

This is most likely his old account: fxsurfer (also banned for spamming, trolling or whatever).

Of course it is him, I would highly advise everyone to put OP on ignore, he is bloody troll who is calling bitcoin a scam on various crypto forums for last several years, just google this site https://btcprevara.wordpress.com/ and you will see fudster shitting against bitcoin everywhere.

Whatever You say it doesn't really matter, he will just call it "ad hominem", "no valid argument", "trolling" and continue with his "bitcoin is number in spreadsheet", "banana is worth more than bitcoin" thingy.  

[iluvbitcoins]

This is most likely his old account: fxsurfer (also banned for spamming, trolling or whatever).

Of course it is him, I would highly advise everyone to put OP on ignore, he is bloody troll who is calling bitcoin a scam on various crypto forums for last several years, just google this site https://btcprevara.wordpress.com/ and you will see fudster shitting against bitcoin everywhere.

Whatever You say it doesn't really matter, he will just call it "ad hominem", "no valid argument", "trolling" and continue with his "bitcoin is number in spreadsheet", "banana is worth more than bitcoin" thingy.  

I'm really intrigued on what's his motivation to make literally a 147 posts attacking bitcoin on a public forum from which he gains nothing o.o

[FatFork]

This is most likely his old account: fxsurfer (also banned for spamming, trolling or whatever).

Of course it is him, I would highly advise everyone to put OP on ignore, he is bloody troll who is calling bitcoin a scam on various crypto forums for last several years, just google this site https://btcprevara.wordpress.com/ and you will see fudster shitting against bitcoin everywhere.

Whatever You say it doesn't really matter, he will just call it "ad hominem", "no valid argument", "trolling" and continue with his "bitcoin is number in spreadsheet", "banana is worth more than bitcoin" thingy.  

I'm really intrigued on what's his motivation to make literally a 147 posts attacking bitcoin on a public forum from which he gains nothing o.o

That's not even close. As far as I know, he was very active in many Croatian forums, too. Not to mention comments on various news portals ...

Maybe he's trying to collapse the price of BTC with his FUD so he can get into the 'scheme' too?

[Money_Wizard]

Money should not have real value. Money (fiat or cryptocurrency) is just a temporary measure of the value of any goods or services. Some things or services have value, money is just a tool to achieve any goal, since it is convenient in the modern world. We must not forget about it. Cryptocurrency is more suitable for these purposes than fiat money.

[pixie85]

Money should not have real value. Money (fiat or cryptocurrency) is just a temporary measure of the value of any goods or services. Some things or services have value, money is just a tool to achieve any goal, since it is convenient in the modern world. We must not forget about it. Cryptocurrency is more suitable for these purposes than fiat money.

Fiat also doesn't have real value but rather promised value. The paper is not worth anything and banks don't have enough gold and other metals to give fiat money its value.

It's all based on trust. The buyer trusts that the seller will accept his paper money and the seller trusts that if he sells the item his supplier will accept paper money and provide him with another item for sale. If any point in this circle of trust fails the whole system will fail.

Fiat money isn't better than crypto.

[Twinkledoe]

Let's just reduce this post to "Bitcoin is backed by nothing" type of argument and its value is determined by the people who uses it. This has been raised plenty of times before and yet bitcoin is still alive. Never destroyed.

Let's suppose that you bought all the fiat currencies in the world and you decide not to sell them. How can you benefit from them? Well you can wait a couple of months and then visit the banks that issued them to claim an enormous wealth in the form of land, buildings, machines, equipment and other property that the banks seized from the borrowers.

The banks can simply print as many fiat as they can and they will never run out of it. They can also declare that those fiats you bought to be out of circulation and just devalue them.

Finally, let's suppose that you bought all the bitcoins in the world and you decide not to sell them. How can you benefit from them? To put it another way. After said purchase, all you have is a number in a computer memory - 18.232.575 (bitcoins currently in circulation). Let's suppose that I open my Excel spreadsheet and put the same number into it -> 18.232.575. Now we both have equal records in a computer memory.

...but no one else can prove ownership other than the owner of the wallet keys/seed containing those bitcoins by signing a message. You can have as many people with spreadsheets and the same number but can they prove that they really have it? NO.

Can you buy something and send bitcoin as payment just by using a spreadsheet? NO.

I agree with this point of view. Bitcoin has been argued and presented with so many negative perspectives, yet, we are still here in this forum talking about bitcoin and crypto. I don't think bitcoin will ever be destroyed by a single question.We already have come so far and achieved so many things owed to bitcoin. This is not applicable anymore I guess.

Money should not have real value. Money (fiat or cryptocurrency) is just a temporary measure of the value of any goods or services. Some things or services have value, money is just a tool to achieve any goal, since it is convenient in the modern world. We must not forget about it. Cryptocurrency is more suitable for these purposes than fiat money.

Fiat also doesn't have real value but rather promised value. The paper is not worth anything and banks don't have enough gold and other metals to give fiat money its value.

It's all based on trust. The buyer trusts that the seller will accept his paper money and the seller trusts that if he sells the item his supplier will accept paper money and provide him with another item for sale. If any point in this circle of trust fails the whole system will fail.

Fiat money isn't better than crypto.

I think one major gap as of now between crypto and fiat is the number of people who are using it. Fiat obviously is being used by majority, whereas, crypto users are still in small percentage as compared to the global population.

[Yatsan]

Money should not have real value. Money (fiat or cryptocurrency) is just a temporary measure of the value of any goods or services. Some things or services have value, money is just a tool to achieve any goal, since it is convenient in the modern world. We must not forget about it. Cryptocurrency is more suitable for these purposes than fiat money.

Fiat also doesn't have real value but rather promised value. The paper is not worth anything and banks don't have enough gold and other metals to give fiat money its value.

It's all based on trust. The buyer trusts that the seller will accept his paper money and the seller trusts that if he sells the item his supplier will accept paper money and provide him with another item for sale. If any point in this circle of trust fails the whole system will fail.

Fiat money isn't better than crypto.

Both fiat and cryptocurrency are based on supply and demand, as long as there's someone who is going to buy and sell bitcoin, bitcoin will never be destroy. As long as there's demand for the product then it will have a value. Bitcoin and fiat are both backed by nothing but still existing because there's people who want it. Fiat have unlimited supply Bitcoin does have have only 21M, So think again. If a product have a limited supply the demand for it will increase overtime. Bitcoin will never be destroy, it's the cash of the future.

[antikvark]

OP all your assumptions are based on us buying bitcoins and then being unable to take real value from them because of not selling.

What if I got my bitcoins for free? What if I earned them when they were worth only a few dollars. I literally wrote a few posts a couple years ago and got 0.1 BTC for it.
To me the value invested is almost non existent so i'm not eager to sell now. I did work worth maybe 1000 USD at the time and after a few years are holding coins with the value of 100k USD. I got my 1k back long time ago and all that I hold now is free money.

Now let's talk about selling. I don't want fiat, I want potential value and security so for me the situation with BTC growing on my wallet is ideal. I have enough money to live by and I prefer to have an investment than another car to drive on weekends.

I won't sell because I want to avoid exchanges and their fees. I prefer to wait until I'm able to convert my coins directly into physical items without a middle man. I don't know how that "destroys bitcoin".

If you got your bitcoins for free this is like puting a record into your Excel spreadsheet for free. Hence, irrelevant for this topic. Since you all keep ignoring the question of this topic I'll repeat it:

If you hold all the BTC in the world how can you benefit from them WITHOUT selling them to someone else?

As per opinion, we shouldn't feed this troll with the needed information because he/she choose to remain in the dark forever. People such cannibal are left with their thought in their lower abdomen. Let me ask you this: how is it possible to have something that's decentralized and atoll be backed by something? I mean, something centralized? I mean, something like shits?. This'd the reason why Bitcoin cannot be backed by anything like gold or the fiat. It has been one success and the other with Bitcoin and you're here causing FUD, shame on you all who can't leave this forum.

Well, it is impossible to have something that's decentralized and backed by something. That's why decentralization is a perfect way to organize Ponzi schemes - as they are backed by nothing. That's the whole point.

What about the centralized fiats, are they not still be used for ponzi scheme? Have your Central Banks stop the production of bank notes? What about money laundering in your country by political classes? Am not dumbed and will not be dumb to your unfounded analysis. Keep it up, we're not going to sell our Bitcoin for now because people like me saw a value in it toah!!.

All systems can be used for Ponzi, but decentralized ones are ideal as they can hide actual fraudsters. Bitcoin is a textbook example of that. Its organizers and whales are unknown to the public.

Regarding the rest. The same as some people see the flat shape of the Earth some see value in bitcoin. But the reality is different. The Earth is round. Bitcoin is worthless - you can benefit from it only from the funds that reside in the pockets of new investors. Without new investors your bitcoins are not different than a numerical record in your Excel spreadsheet.