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Author Topic: The Bitcoin environment seems toxic right now... has it felt like this before?  (Read 10985 times)
AnonyMint
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March 24, 2014, 01:10:18 AM
Last edit: March 24, 2014, 01:49:22 AM by AnonyMint
 #101

If you think mattboldfield is my sock puppet, you are losing your sanity. Just study our writing styles. Consult an expert in writing analysis.

mattboldfield, I must agree with you that it is important to have a life outside of this stuff, but I also agree with molecular that it is important to do something to fix the problem.

Here follows another cross-post:



In practice "off-chain" just means "use something else that's better".

Not exclusively. Offchain also includes centralized exchanges such as a Mt.Gox, instead of decentralized ones (which are in development and don't exist yet). Such offchain exchanges lead to fractional reserves, fraud, and thus government regulation and take over.

Eventually these offchains are banks. Then we are no longer using Bitcoin, rather government regulated fractional reserves called "Bitcoin". This is a very likely outcome, because dumb masses will never want to use decentralized exchanges.They prefer Coinbase and a bank to "secure" their coins.

Then it conflicts with the fundamentals. Bitcoin usage is growing exponentially and the new users/investors need bitcoins. When they buy them, the price rises. Any TA that does not take this into account is harmful for the financial well-being of its user Smiley

Assuming no exchange is creating a massive amount of fractional reserves. Fractional reserves are possible when people are not transacting their coins, just buy and hold on the exchange such as Coinbase. But Coinbase is honest (?).

The more valuable Bitcoin becomes, the more incentive to create Bitcoins from thin air. You really don't think the banksters will just sit idle and watch you become $billionaires at their expense do you?

They've been doing this racket for 100s of years, and you expect them to just roll over and play dead?

The time of BTC is upon us if we accept that the masses will use it if offchain regulated businesses provide fixes to all the useability problems with Bitcoin onchain (e.g. 10 - 60 minute transactions, private keys stolen, etc).

I seriously doubt "offchain regulated businesses" will help Bitcoin or ANYTHING.

I've asked Bitcoin developers why the BTC fees are so high for small transactions. I know some of you will want to argue about this but you might as well admit the truth: Sending big amounts of BTC is cheap, sending small amounts is expensive. It just does not work for micropayments. Bitcoin developers argument is that "but OFFCHAIN TRANSACTIONS!".

Guess what? Fiat cash is a good example of an Offchain Transaction. I know this is what Bitcoin developers mean when they use that term but it's true: Cash transactions are not on the blockchain since they do not involve Bitcoin. Other "offchain" (as in NOT bitcoin) alternatives will come along and win the market for micropayments (where Bitcoin can not compete). Telling people to use "offchain" solutions to problems Bitcoin can not solve is in my opinion the same as saying "don't use Bitcoin, use something else".

I've studied this in technical (not to be confused with chart TA) detail. Zero transactions fees are possible in a properly designed altcoin but not in Bitcoin's design. There are crucial things that can never change in Bitcoin's design any more.

Offchain can improve other things such as the 10 - 60 minute transaction delay for Bitcoin. It is also possible to design an altcoin without such a significant delay so "nearly instant" online micropayments can remain decentralized and on chain.

There will be serious competitors to Bitcoin, but see below...

Then it conflicts with the fundamentals. Bitcoin usage is growing exponentially and the new users/investors need bitcoins. When they buy them, the price rises. Any TA that does not take this into account is harmful for the financial well-being of its user Smiley

This is so super important.  Bitcoin's fundamentals are very compelling.  Until something comes along that solves nearly ALL of bitcoin's problems and overtakes it's growing network effect bitcoin continues to have a lot of built in fundamental propulsive power.  Considering that many solutions to bicoin's shortcomings will be layers on top of bitcoin, there is also a possibility, in my opinion, that within bitcoin itself and its community is the solution to it's own problems.

The solution to the capital gains problem is Bitcoin becomes fiat. This could happen eventually and investors could pile now in under that assumption.

I see the mainstream crypto-currency has to be the government sanctioned one. There is no other way around that. Might as well just accept it, and think about the implications for yourself as an investor, specifically the witchhunt against all wealth coming as the governments tax+confiscate into oblivion and the lack of anonymity in Bitcoin as compared to gold or some hypothetical altcoin (apparently not DarkCoin nor CoinJoin though).

Some have argued they don't care if society confiscates (taxes) 90% if their gains are 1000X. That is still 100X gains.

Then again if there is an anonymous coin that gives you 10,000X (because it is smaller and you are earlier to invest), and you don't face taxes nor confiscation, those investors are going to be 100X higher on the totem pole, e.g. $billionaires versus $10 millionaires. Think private jets instead of old manors.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-22/imfs-property-tax-hike-proposal-comes-true-uk-imposing-mansion-tax-soon-year

It's very easy - I have often done it myself - to get so caught up into advocating one's position that one fails to see the incoherencies in ones own case.  An old saying is apposite:  There are none so blind as those who will not see.  

When you are making a case to a broad audience as well as to a correspondent -- as is typical in a forum post -- your case is not well served if you refuse to see what all the other readers can easily see.  Denial is not an effective strategy, either logically or rhetorically.  

I see very clearly why you support the mainstream crypto-currency and normally that is the correct move (also you probably have no deep programming or technical skills so you couldn't change the situation if you were so inclined, you are reliant on the trend for your stored monetary capital, i.e. No Money Exists Without the Majority). I also see very clearly that every 80 years or so, the mainstream goes in chaos with confiscation and war.

So I see failure of the mainstream 2016ish. Why should I board the Titantic?

Should Google have never improved upon Yahoo? Should Facebook have not taken over from Friendster and Myspace? Can you be sure Bitcoin is an exception to the usual rule that the first one is almost never the winning one.

Groupthink
Groupthink is a psychological phenomenon that occurs within a group of people, in which the desire for harmony or conformity in the group results in an irrational or dysfunctional decision-making outcome.

group·think
ˈgro͞opˌTHiNGk/
noun
noun: groupthink; noun: group-think

    1.
    the practice of thinking or making decisions as a group in a way that discourages creativity or individual responsibility.

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March 24, 2014, 03:28:57 AM
 #102

If you think mattboldfield is my sock puppet, you are losing your sanity. Just study our writing styles. Consult an expert in writing analysis.
 

"But...but...but i changed my writing style...
i even went to the trouble of creating a fake
history... how did they figure out its me??? waaaaaah"
 
Your persistance in bashing bitcoin is impressive.

Why, just in the above post alone, you've hit the
bankster angle, the fees angle, the speed
of transactions angle, the government witchhunt
angle, the "bitcoin is the myspace of crypto"
angle, and the groupthink angle.
 
Good job!  You must be getting paid handsomely
to be doing 3400+ anti-bitcoin posts here.
 
Newsflash:  you're on the wrong side of reality.

Bitcoin has already won.  It's the most powerful
computer network in the world. 

Keep trolling, its quite amusing.

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March 24, 2014, 03:46:08 AM
 #103

If you think mattboldfield is my sock puppet, you are losing your sanity. Just study our writing styles. Consult an expert in writing analysis.
 

"But...but...but i changed my writing style...
i even went to the trouble of creating a fake
history... how did they figure out its me??? waaaaaah"

I have also been accused of being AnonyMint's evil sock puppet.
Boy he must sure be busy creating all these alts Roll Eyes


 

AnonyMint
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March 24, 2014, 05:27:01 AM
 #104


Newsflash:  you're on the wrong side of reality.

Bitcoin has already won.  It's the most powerful
computer network in the world.

Hahaha. Watch me destroy it.

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March 24, 2014, 05:37:52 AM
 #105

FUCK THIS SHIT!!

You seriously MUST be CRAZY to have anything to do with BITCOIN!! This is my observation after only three months!!

If you think this is the new frontier in currency, unfortunately you are DELIRIOUS!

My posts are now being moved, and I am called a troll for my negative, BUT HONEST experiences and posts made about the SCAM that is BITCOIN.

My technical issues were never solved, I had two payments never received, even though they were on the blockchain, they were never accounted for in the QT and no "EXPERTS" here have ever solved the problem.
Subjects and posts left are now being manicured, and I'll even go as far as saying it was GRUE who intercepted my P.M., logged onto my PC through Teamviewer, stole my Private keys and deleted the TeamViewer history.  

NOW I'm getting allegations of being pseudo and quasi!!

I cannot even find one soul to take what I am saying seriously and offer help.

BITCOIN - Just one giant Ponzi scam run by criminals!


I will taking my own advise given and will be returning with a vengeance!!







CoinMode
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March 24, 2014, 07:56:03 AM
 #106

If you think mattboldfield is my sock puppet, you are losing your sanity. Just study our writing styles. Consult an expert in writing analysis.

Both of your arguments are exactly the same on every point. You might as well be twin sock puppets.

Bitcoin the first attempt at Virtual Currency? No, not by far, so go do more research you ignorant curmudgeon.
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March 24, 2014, 10:41:55 AM
 #107

FUCK THIS SHIT!!

You seriously MUST be CRAZY to have anything to do with BITCOIN!! This is my observation after only three months!!

If you think this is the new frontier in currency, unfortunately you are DELIRIOUS!

My posts are now being moved, and I am called a troll for my negative, BUT HONEST experiences and posts made about the SCAM that is BITCOIN.

My technical issues were never solved, I had two payments never received, even though they were on the blockchain, they were never accounted for in the QT and no "EXPERTS" here have ever solved the problem.
Subjects and posts left are now being manicured, and I'll even go as far as saying it was GRUE who intercepted my P.M., logged onto my PC through Teamviewer, stole my Private keys and deleted the TeamViewer history.  

NOW I'm getting allegations of being pseudo and quasi!!

I cannot even find one soul to take what I am saying seriously and offer help.

BITCOIN - Just one giant Ponzi scam run by criminals!


I will taking my own advise given and will be returning with a vengeance!!


You do have a valid point but Im sure the problem with receiving payments to your wallet are from you downloading malicious software/rootkits. Letting some stranger from the internet teamview into your machine is not the smartest idea ever. If you did any kind of research installing software from teamviewer or logmein opens you up to vulnerabilities that anyone on the internet can exploit.

I've been keeping up on bitcoin since 2010 even mined a few coins back then because I'm a geek and thought it would be cool just to say I have some. The bitcoin platform is not bad its the community and the way its used for bad is our problem. Not only newbs (dont take the word as an insult) but my self get the same scammer/unprofessional vibe but that is something we all can change and is something we for sure need to work on if we all as the early adopters of bitcoin expect to see this thing last.
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March 24, 2014, 11:47:55 AM
Last edit: March 24, 2014, 02:04:07 PM by AnonyMint
 #108

CoinMode maybe you are the sock puppet of CoinCube, who they claim is my sock puppet (even we posted our photos to show it isn't true), so maybe you are my sock puppet. Sock puppets are known to create fake antagonists to create scenarios where they win arguments.

Bitcoin the first attempt at Virtual Currency? No, not by far, so go do more research you ignorant curmudgeon.

First one to be decentralized.

What do you think a cpu-only, botnet resistant coin can do to Bitcoin? Suddenly everyone who has heard of Bitcoin, can download and mine.

Bitcoin stands no marketing chance against that, it will spread by word of mouth "hey I got free money by turning on my computer".

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AnonyMint
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March 24, 2014, 01:33:38 PM
Last edit: March 24, 2014, 02:00:55 PM by AnonyMint
 #109

Now for a dose of reality on those illogical $million price projections for Bitcoin...

- Technologies have a known adoption cycle

Logistic S-curve adoption.

But the breadth of adoption depends on the utility of the technology.

Smart phones and toilet paper are technologies just about everyone needs (note I don't use the latter).

Unless Bitcoin will be morphed via offchain reserves to correct glaring weaknesses in its technological design, then it can not and will not appeal to most of the population.

If you are not factoring that into your FA analysis, then your FA is flawed.

First of all Bitcoin (as it currently stands unless morphed as I say above) will be limited to reasonably affluent, white males mostly under age 50. Thus figure the upper limit of adoption is several hundred million. Note NE Asians are white.

So we may already be at that adoption "chasm" you mentioned, or it will come on the next run up and peak in price.

- To adopt Bitcoin, you must buy bitcoins
- Buying bitcoins from a rigid stock increases its price to induce existing holders to sell

Assuming the stock is rigid and hasn't morphed into an offchain reserves coin.

- The value of Bitcoin network is correlated with the number of its members
- The purchasing power of one bitcoin is roughly linearly correlated to the number of bitcoin owners in the world and it can be expressed with the following equation: 0.0005*U (USD/BTC), where "U" is the number of bitcoin owners.

And so Bitcoin's value will not approach fiat for general commerce without being so morphed.

Given the above argument, you can see why a dip below $300 is psychologically important. We ain't going to da moon, so a lower entry price builds enthusiasm and bullish resolve.


P.S. White is a factor because browner people are too busy enjoying the outdoor and natural life. The white males are stuck inside with winter and find indoor male hobbies. Females in general aren't going to adopt anything that is not super easy, not threatening, available in pink, and lovingly accepted by their peers.

Add:

Andreas M. Antonopoulos claims in the developing world Bitcoin is approached by a different class. However if as it appears be he is referring to his experiences in South America, there is a huge influx of former European immigrants there.

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March 24, 2014, 07:19:15 PM
 #110

FUCK THIS SHIT!!

You seriously MUST be CRAZY to have anything to do with BITCOIN!! This is my observation after only three months!!

If you think this is the new frontier in currency, unfortunately you are DELIRIOUS!

My posts are now being moved, and I am called a troll for my negative, BUT HONEST experiences and posts made about the SCAM that is BITCOIN.

My technical issues were never solved, I had two payments never received, even though they were on the blockchain, they were never accounted for in the QT and no "EXPERTS" here have ever solved the problem.
Subjects and posts left are now being manicured, and I'll even go as far as saying it was GRUE who intercepted my P.M., logged onto my PC through Teamviewer, stole my Private keys and deleted the TeamViewer history.  

NOW I'm getting allegations of being pseudo and quasi!!

I cannot even find one soul to take what I am saying seriously and offer help.

BITCOIN - Just one giant Ponzi scam run by criminals!


I will taking my own advise given and will be returning with a vengeance!!



You shouldn't be using a program like TeamViewer. There are botnets that actively scan the web for vulnerable systems running programs like TeamViewer or VNC and they will brute force access.
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March 24, 2014, 07:50:53 PM
 #111

Bitcoin only seems environmentally toxic to some because they are mentally toxic to themselves.

If you are sitting all day reading the sometimes goofy comments in Bitcoin forums, are you really doing something with Bitcoin? Get out there and make Bitcoin work in a unique way.

Everybody can teach himself/herself programming. Everyone can see a need. Learn programming and fill the need. You just might become rich doing it... rather than sitting around and waiting for Bitcoin to become less toxic so that you can ride to fame and fortune on the coattails of the likes of Satoshi and the Bitcoin devs.

 Angry

Cure your cancer at home. Ivermectin, fenbendazole, methylene blue, and hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) are chief among parasite drugs. Find out that all disease is based in parasites or pollution, and what you can easily do about it - https://www.huldaclark.com/.
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March 24, 2014, 08:07:19 PM
 #112

I want to learn programming but I'm extremely lazy. I took a course a few years back in college and it was really boring so I couldn't get into it. But it is an increasingly-useful skill in today's world.

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.
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March 24, 2014, 08:08:22 PM
 #113

Bitcoin only seems environmentally toxic to some because they are mentally toxic to themselves.

If you are sitting all day reading the sometimes goofy comments in Bitcoin forums, are you really doing something with Bitcoin? Get out there and make Bitcoin work in a unique way.

Everybody can teach himself/herself programming. Everyone can see a need. Learn programming and fill the need. You just might become rich doing it... rather than sitting around and waiting for Bitcoin to become less toxic so that you can ride to fame and fortune on the coattails of the likes of Satoshi and the Bitcoin devs.

 Angry

Understanding the world of bitcoin is, so far, extremely difficult for most people (see video). Explaining bitcoin on an individual basis is a much needed service right now, and you can help by coding the concepts of bitcoin into an understandable forum post. Many examples of this work populates this forum, and they are helping out a lot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd19SboRhVY


It's the trolls you should be complaining about.
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March 24, 2014, 08:27:36 PM
 #114

Smart phones and toilet paper are technologies just about everyone needs (note I don't use the latter).

Trolls don't use toilet paper.  Yep, sounds about right.

Blah blah blah properly designed altcoin...
Blah blah blah white males under 50
Blah blah blah it would be good if bitcoin hit $300
Blah blah blah transactions take 10 minutes
Blah blah I'm smart and I've analyzed things and I can use big words

What a cute little misinformation campaign you've got going!

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March 24, 2014, 08:33:02 PM
 #115

I want to learn programming but I'm extremely lazy. I took a course a few years back in college and it was really boring so I couldn't get into it. But it is an increasingly-useful skill in today's world.

Programming is difficult, but a very worthwhile challenge.
You can keep reaching way above your current skill level.

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March 26, 2014, 09:34:13 PM
 #116

I want to learn programming but I'm extremely lazy. I took a course a few years back in college and it was really boring so I couldn't get into it. But it is an increasingly-useful skill in today's world.

Programming is difficult, but a very worthwhile challenge.
You can keep reaching way above your current skill level.

Programming is extremely tedious. It is boring unless you are extremely motivated and find the challenge interesting.

I wrote about 800 LOC yesterday (not including whitespace nor comments). This is considered to be quite high.

https://www.google.com.ph/search?q=average+LOC+per+day

I didn't think I could still do that. I used to be quite a prolific coder.

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March 26, 2014, 09:52:25 PM
 #117

I want to learn programming but I'm extremely lazy. I took a course a few years back in college and it was really boring so I couldn't get into it. But it is an increasingly-useful skill in today's world.

Programming is difficult, but a very worthwhile challenge.
You can keep reaching way above your current skill level.

Programming is extremely tedious. It is boring unless you are extremely motivated and find the challenge interesting.

I wrote about 800 LOC yesterday (not including whitespace nor comments). This is considered to be quite high.

https://www.google.com.ph/search?q=average+LOC+per+day

I didn't think I could still do that. I used to be quite a prolific coder.

For me, coding is most fun when at the end of the day I have less lines of code than at the beginning of the day.

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March 26, 2014, 09:55:33 PM
 #118

For me, coding is most fun when at the end of the day I have less lines of code than at the beginning of the day.

A lot of people don't understand that. 

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March 26, 2014, 10:06:07 PM
 #119

Who remembers the vitriol that was hurled at culture sharing (piracy) in the dawn of the torrent era?

Same thing here. It's about authorities fearing their loss of control and profit, that's why so much negativity is being vomited in Bitcoin's general direction.

Remember Aaron Swartz, a 26 year old computer scientist who died defending the free flow of information.
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March 26, 2014, 10:22:06 PM
Last edit: March 26, 2014, 10:37:22 PM by AnonyMint
 #120

For me, coding is most fun when at the end of the day I have less lines of code than at the beginning of the day.

A lot of people don't understand that.  

That is why I use Scala when I can. Much more concise, because I can express higher-kinded category theory polymorphisms (JustSaying is me). As far as I know, higher-kinded typing is only supported by Scala, Haskell, and ML. You may not realize that Haskell doesn't have subtyping, it is faked. ML is very powerful but very obtuse.

But when you are writing something new, then LOC production is a positive metric.

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