The UK is moving towards forced isolation for people over 70.

[Jet Cash]

I gather that parliament is likely to pass an act in the near future, and this will attempt to force people over 70 to lock themselves in their homes. Well I'm 78, and they can shove that act up their fundament. It's over 50 years since I had any illness other than a one day cold, and I reckon that I have a lower risk for the CV than the fat lumps that need a walking stick to get from their cars to the surgery.

The only reason that they are targeting older people is that they have screwed up their health with statins, vaccinations and other poisons. Hopefully we can get some sensible statistical analysis about so called health care soon, and then we can move forward and benefit from the wealth of knowledge we have learnt about the workings of the body and its immune system. It has kept us going for a few milliion years, so it must have worked out the benefits.

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[eddie13]

they can shove that act up their fundament.

Admirable bravery..

[TECSHARE]

This is absolutely nonsense. There has to be some ulterior motive, perhaps what you have suggested but I suspect something more. I think part of it is they know this is they know this demographic will be the one putting the most strain on the public healthcare system. As a result they are probably trading your freedoms for a reduction in the strain on the medical system.

The really sad part of this injustice is it won't even help stem the spread. At most this would only provide a temporary reduction on the strain of the system. This pandemic is being used by governments all over the world to strip the people of their rights. This will not stop, they will keep doing it more and more and more. This disease is being used as a Hegelian strategy for totalitarians to take absolute control.

[franky1]

elderly people in their own homes wont be a big problem

its the retirement homes/communities which become the main incubators.
also its relatives that go visit elderly people that pass it around

walking the streets and having people pass by at a walking pace in the opposite direction wont have the time or distance to spread it. .. its the people that handshake, hug and kiss and stay within touching proximity for long conversational time that usually pass it on.
which is more about retirement homes and home care visitors and relatives

better advice would be to get families to call each other instead of visit their elderly relatives and kiss and hug them when you arrive/leave.

making it a law that prohibits elderly people from going to the shop would cause more of an issue around starvation and other things like paying for their 'key meter' electric/gas(pay as you use) meaning the elderly are more at risk of starving/ freezing than getting the flu

most retail stores have automatic opening doors so the risk of touching door handles of shops is low. someone would have to purposefully lick a door handle for that to be of risk.

so basically the main risk is family and care workers coming into close proximity for longer than just a passing glance

[Jet Cash]

It isn't bravery, it's common sense. One of the things that helps one protect oneself against the virus is sunlight, so why would I want to keep myself out of that? The health service and government advice is rubbish at the moment. For example they are advising people to stock up on fever reducing medicine, and that is not what they should be doing - they should be increasing body temperature to fight the virus. The only reason to reduce body temperature is to try to avoid getting snatched and kept in rooms full of diseased people.

I hope the "news"papers are misreporting the facts again. They seem to be saying that a healthy 70 year old can be fined upto £1,000 for refusing to be quarantined. I thought we were supposed to be the victims not the threat. How can it be sensible to take a healthy person, and force them to live in a room full of diseased people. It would be far more sensible, and cheaper, to throw away all the disease generating vaccines, and teach people how to strengthen their immune systems.

[Cnut237]

The really sad part of this injustice is it won't even help stem the spread. At most this would only provide a temporary reduction on the strain of the system.

I think this is kind of the point though. They accept that it can't really be contained and the virus will work its way through most of the population eventually, but by implementing isolation they can spread out the peak and so reduce the point of maximum pressure on the healthcare system... so doctors don't have choose who lives and dies, as in Italy.

This pandemic is being used by governments all over the world to strip the people of their rights. This will not stop, they will keep doing it more and more and more. This disease is being used as a Hegelian strategy for totalitarians to take absolute control.

Yes, government agencies will exploit this. Kind of like what happened after 9/11, with the Patriot Act and the massive overhaul of surveillance processes.

[Jet Cash]

What really annoys me is this selection by age. In fact this is illegal in the UK, as you can't discriminate based on age these days - that;s the law. You only have to spend some time in McDonalds to see all the poor kids who have been crippled by vaccinations, pharmaceuticals that the mothers have taken, and dietary problems. They are the vulnerable ones, not the people over 60 who have managed to keep out of the clutches of the Pharmaceutical sales force ( known euphemistically as the health service)

Anyway this seems to have turned out well, as I took some shopping up to my friend on the hill. I found some Baxters vegetarian soups on offer, and those are her favourites, so she asked me to  get a box ( six of each variety). It's a good job I'm not young, as I had to carry them to the van. During a subsequent discussion, we decided that I would dig over a plot on her land, and we would create a prepper's vegetable garden for both of us. That's great news as long as I can keep the animals off the veg. She loves her wild animals, and the woodland is largely untouched, so there is a wide variety of families living there. I might have to ask you guys for some help and advice about this.

[KingScorpio]

I gather that parliament is likely to pass an act in the near future, and this will attempt to force people over 70 to lock themselves in their homes. Well I'm 78, and they can shove that act up their fundament. It's over 50 years since I had any illness other than a one day cold, and I reckon that I have a lower risk for the CV than the fat lumps that need a walking stick to get from their cars to the surgery.

The only reason that they are targeting older people is that they have screwed up their health with statins, vaccinations and other poisons. Hopefully we can get some sensible statistical analysis about so called health care soon, and then we can move forward and benefit from the wealth of knowledge we have learnt about the workings of the body and its immune system. It has kept us going for a few milliion years, so it must have worked out the benefits.

after chorona virus there will be a relived housing market in the aged developed world, and it will lead to a revitalisation of the market, also the amount of brexiteers will then be lower than the remainers and britain will be forced to continue a policy of people that already died, like likely you.

[TECSHARE]

During a subsequent discussion, we decided that I would dig over a plot on her land, and we would create a prepper's vegetable garden for both of us. That's great news as long as I can keep the animals off the veg. She loves her wild animals, and the woodland is largely untouched, so there is a wide variety of families living there. I might have to ask you guys for some help and advice about this.

If you make a separate thread about this I would be happy to contribute.

[Welsh]

For example they are advising people to stock up on fever reducing medicine, and that is not what they should be doing - they should be increasing body temperature to fight the virus. The only reason to reduce body temperature is to try to avoid getting snatched and kept in rooms full of diseased people.

If they have a fever then that's exactly what they should be doing. Change in core temperature for long periods of time, even if its minute can have drastic consequences. Your core temperature isn't suppose to fluctuate much at all, and can lead to cardiac arrest if not controlled. Even in hospitals they don't tend to raise or lower your temperature beyond the recommended values, and they merely try to contain your temperature in these ranges.

However, I will go on to say that people shouldn't be stockpiling medicine they don't need, and anyone that advises people to do this is creating a herd mentality. Which then encourages everyone to buy just for the sake of it which then leaves those in need without. For example, getting food in our family recently has proven difficult, although we did manage to do it on day 2, and our spend was roughly £30 when its usually in the hundreds. There's been a report of a robbery on a hospital in Denmark, and several minor fights breaking out within supermarkets. People, are simply being controlled by fear right now, and if anything has proven how selfish we can be.

[franky1]

What really annoys me is this selection by age. In fact this is illegal in the UK, as you can't discriminate based on age these days - that;s the law. You only have to spend some time in McDonalds to see all the poor kids who have been crippled by vaccinations, pharmaceuticals that the mothers have taken, and dietary problems. They are the vulnerable ones, not the people over 60 who have managed to keep out of the clutches of the Pharmaceutical sales force ( known euphemistically as the health service)

ofcourse while standing in mcdonalds your going to see all the poor kids crippled by dietary problems.. your in friggen mcdonalds!!

its like walking into a womans toilets and complaining you only see women in there.
its like going to a train station and getting peed off that everyone you see seems to want to get on a train

...
anyway. its not some big conspiracy to lock people up. you can still go out to the store or have food delivered. its more of an advisory so that the government isnt blamed for doing absolutely nothing.
you will not see guys with guns shooting people for missing a curfew or being seen on the streets.

these advisories are more about allowing people to choose to stay at home without the burden of their employment or other appointments deciding to penalise a person for not turning up.
yep if your over 70 and decided to continue working. but now feeling sick. you dont ave to worry about losing your job if you take a month off

..
as for the age discrimination stuff.. sorry but age restrictions do apply
no free TV licence unless over a certain age, no free bus pass, not able to smoke or drink or gamble or vote unless above a certain age
minimum wage amounts differ if below or above 25.
unable to marry have sex below a certain age
not able to claim state pension below a certain age.
need i go on?. i think i made my point

[BADecker]

Time to move to Belize. Belize has the same type of government as Britain, having gained their independence only in 1981. The difference is the freedom.

The freedom in Belize is like the Old West in the USA, except for modern facilities and machinery. The government almost leaves the people entirely alone.

And it isn't that hard to get a visa from Britain or the States to visit there... unless things have changed with the CV pandemic.

We should look it up, because the place is a great place to live even if NOT fleeing goofy laws at home.



EDIT: Besides - for the benefit of franky1 in the above post - Belize is quite close to Panama, where we vould go visit Elwar and see his Seasteading set-up.

[franky1]

The freedom in Belize is like the Old West in the USA, except for modern facilities and machinery. The government almost leaves the people entirely alone.

Badecker. maybe do some research. its obvious you are a drug taker so that should have been your first law to check.. and yep. you will get in trouble for it.

you also like to kiss ass alot. but sorry again. they are not pro-gay. so be very careful ass kissing
also they are restricting entry due to corona... so it may have helped if you done some research

[Jet Cash]

The virus can't survive at temperatures above 27 degrees, and that is why the human body raises its core temperature. The immune system has evolved over millions of years, and the more we learn about it, the more wonderful it appears. We should learn to work with it, and to boost it, nit try to destroy it, or replace it. Unfortunately, drinking hot water with a slice of lemon in it doesn't make anybody rich, so the pharma companies have to try to move people away from that idea, and persuade them to become addicted to poisons like statins.

I've been looking at the papers this morning. Several of them show pictures of volunteers buting food and delivering it to people who are self isolating, or deemed to be vulnerable. Some are wearing masks, and some seem to be fairly close to the person opening the door, when they could leave the items on the doorstep. Not one of them was wearing gloves, and this would be the best protection in my opinion. In fact I bought some shopping for an elderly friend who is self isolating yesterday, and I've realised that I don't wear gloves. I've got a box of disposable nitrile gloves that are used by mechanics to guard against excessive exposure to oil. I'm thinking of wearing those to cut down the possibility of my transporting the virus. I'm aware that my frequent visits to public restaurants may expose me to virus contact. I've always washed my hands as a matter of basic hygiene. but I don't think this is sufficient to destroy the virus. I suspect water temperature may be more significant than soap in this case. Real information is fairly difficult to find. For example, there are many reports about the survival rate of the virus on cardboard, but almost no sites report that it can only live for a fifth of the time on copper.

I don't understand the R0 rating either. This seems to be the infection rate of the virus, but the most important factor in my opinion will be the number of people exposed to the infection, and this don't seem to be included in the calculation. For example, I am upstairs in a Costa coffee shop, and there id no other person here, and nobody has been here since I arrived. Whatever the rating of any infection that I might have, I'm not going to pass it on to anybody. Had I been caught up in a mad bun fight to purchase loo rolls, then even a virus with a low infection rate id likely to infect several people if I was a carrier.

[edit]
I found this article - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2703958
It looks as if it would be a good idea to wear the gloves to avoid the transfer of the virus.

[franky1]

jet cash. just to correct you your body works at 35 degrees.. so maybe you meant 37 not 27

and in another topic i told you that HOT lemon water only treats the throat but the latter 'core' of the body actually gets cooler once the liquid hits the stomach. thus warm lemon water is ok for the throat but not a treatment for core body temperature

better advice is to have HOT fluids when near people to stop it at the mouth/throat.. and then later/rest of day have iced drinks/icecream to keep the core temperature up

i emphasis HOT fluids to TRY killing it in the mouth/throat. not 'warm' fluids
as warm fluids can incubate it and actually wash it down into the stomach bypassing it just lingering in the throat for your mucus to extract naturally.
yep if your just drinking warm lemon.. you are not helping. instead you would be better off with trying to spit any flem out of your mouth

yep
warm drinks/chilli pepper initial reaction is to cause your skin to expel heat which is why your skin feels warm and you sweat. but this is heat escaping your body because it thinks your body is too warm. thus after the foodsweats of eating a spicy curry. your core temperature is actually lower and stays lower for a while
mexicans and indians knew this centuries ago and is standard practice to eat hot foods in hot countries to stay cool internally

icecream/ chilled/iced drinks cause your body to stop expelling heat. so your skin feels cooler. but your internal core locks in and keeps the heat thus warming your core.

by the way you are again UPSTAIRS (where less people usually congregate anyway) and there at 7am. so yea ofcourse your going to think its a quiet morning.
most people start work at 9 and most town retail shops dont open until 9am so ofcourse people dont even usually leave their house until after 8 to get into town for 9.
its just common sense

[Cnut237]

there are many reports about the survival rate of the virus on cardboard, but almost no sites report that it can only live for a fifth of the time on copper.

I am upstairs in a Costa coffee shop, and there id no other person here, and nobody has been here since I arrived. Whatever the rating of any infection that I might have, I'm not going to pass it on to anybody.

Whilst you are unlikely to pass it on because you wash your hands, that's not true of everyone. It's quite possible that someone could cough into their hand, and then grab the handrail to get upstairs. It's going to be difficult for us all to start regarding every surface as a potential threat. Not sure what guidance (if any) there is for shops, but they need to be disinfecting things like handrails very frequently.

[Jet Cash]

@Franky - apologies for posting 26, of course you are correct when you say the temperature is 36. I stand by the rest of the post though.

With regards to using the upstairs area, it is quieter as it doesn't have the through traffic. There are usually more power points as well. Because of this it is used by early morning business people, and kids dropped off by their parents waiting for school to open - they spend time on their phones of course. There are usually 5 or 6 tables occupied as well as mine,

From what I have read, washing your hands does little to slow down the spread of the virus, but it should be a basic hygiene action. The plague was spread by lack of sanitation, and personal hygiene. That is why it is stupid for councils to cut down on refuse and ware collection, and I understand they will be doing that soon.

I'm n the Morrisons cafe again, and the stadd have been told to cut down of their purchases for the cafe. They expect to close it in the not too distant future. As I was driving here, I noticed a 5 tonne curtain-sider in a lay-bye. It was a farmer selling sack of potatoes directly to the public,and that is the first time I have seen that. It is usually strawberries of flowers that are being sold. It's 2pm and I walked round the store. Most of the meat shelves were empty, as were many others.

[Juggy777]

I gather that parliament is likely to pass an act in the near future, and this will attempt to force people over 70 to lock themselves in their homes. Well I'm 78, and they can shove that act up their fundament. It's over 50 years since I had any illness other than a one day cold, and I reckon that I have a lower risk for the CV than the fat lumps that need a walking stick to get from their cars to the surgery.

The only reason that they are targeting older people is that they have screwed up their health with statins, vaccinations and other poisons. Hopefully we can get some sensible statistical analysis about so called health care soon, and then we can move forward and benefit from the wealth of knowledge we have learnt about the workings of the body and its immune system. It has kept us going for a few milliion years, so it must have worked out the benefits.

@Jet Cash it’s kind of difficult to be angry at the UK parliament for this upcoming rule, because if at some stage the virus spreads due to 70+ year old citizens getting infected then the UK people will blame the government for not taking a stand, but on the other hand I don’t completely support this decision too.

As I’m not a citizen of the UK I don’t know how grave the situation is with 70 year old people in your country, but I sincerely hope that your government can find a way to quarantine only the sick seniors, and allow other fit seniors to live their life normally.

[franky1]

one thing i found interesting is food delivery.
with supermarkets limiting purchases to 2-4 products per product types. this means people cant 'stock up' however on the flip side people need to spend £40+ just to get a delivery

so people that normally only buy the bare essentals such as say tins of baked beans. instead of buying a week or a fortnights worth. they can only buy 1-2 days worth. which means trying to get to the £40 limit for just a couple days worth is not going to happen easily.

this will end up with people having to be more creative and varied and end up throwing random luxury brands in just to get basket total to the minimum

i know many elderly that just done one monthly shop of like 14 tins of baked beans 14 tins of spaghetti. 7 bags of frozen chicken portions and a few other things and only just reached the £40 limit. so if they are forced to only get 2 tins at a time they have to either end up not spending 13p a tin. but upwards of 50p just to spread the brand names to get the 14 quantity
so their total bill can end up costing more just for the same product quantity. or have to try physically visiting stores on a regular couple day visit just to stay within budget.

another thing to note. i just researched to see how accurate that persons concerns were
logging into ASDA(UK walmart)
usually you can get next day delivery for £2
just checked my area and closest booking for delivery is 10 days time(28th march) and a £6.50 fee plus a £3 extra if buying under £40 of items
so the concern the person raised is real. cant get a delivery for over a week and atleast has to budget ~£9.50 just to buy a couple days worth. or throw in alot more random more expensive stuff just to get more days/variety to get the £40 min
and still no guarantee there will actually be goods available to be picked the night before delivery(10 days time)
so right now i think nutrician and finances should be more of a worry of the over 70's.. not so much if they can still go to costa coffee

and for the benefit of Jetcash because he loves sitting in mcdonalds borrowing wifi.. it seems his lifestyle is about to change

..
i can easily see people who can walk into stores. buy their 3 units per product brand.. pay.. put it in car. then walk back into store and repeat again 2-3 more times to get a weeks worth

[Jet Cash]

The situation here is great fr over 70s as long as you don;t let the health workers get their hooks into you. I've got several friends who have been killed by rubbish pharmaceuticals, or turned into vegetables so that their estates can be milked. My friends in their 80s and 90s that are fit and health don'r take any pharmaceuticals.  One 94 year old lady is active in the local church community, and if you take that away from here, I'm sure that will have a greater effect on her health than a hyped up virus.

The stupidity us starting to hit the country now. I toured some supermarkets yesterday. 1 Sainsburys, 2 Morrisons, 1 ASDA, 1  and 1 M&S. Some out of stock items were common to all - including bread, eggs, potatoes, pasta tinned sardines and beans,loo rolls, and similar items. Whilst I was in Sainsburys, a shelf stacker brought out 1 box of pasta shells, and 2 boxes of spaghetti, within 10 minutes the shelf was empty. I bought one packet of each for me, and a packet for my 83 year old friend. I had problems at the till as they imposed a limit of 2 items per customer. I explained the situation to a supervisor, and she et me put through two transactions. I was lucky, as they were confiscating extra packets from other customers. Most of the reduced price items were pretty useless for me, but I did manage to get a nice selection from one of the Morrisons stores. This included a pack of Lancashire tripe for 8 pence. I haven't ever fancied eating this, as I believe it is the lining of a sheep's stomach. It seems to be really healthy though, so I thought I would give it a go.

I went to my favourite McDonalds at 5am, and found that they had closed the seating area, and were only selling take away meals. I had to wait until 8am for Costa to open, and that is where I am now. I'm running the Ubuntu netbook with the out of date blockchain. I still don't seem to be able to connect to more than 2 peers, so I will have to do a bit of investigation obviously.

I picked up a couple of dozen paving blocks that someone had chucked into the verge by a lay-bye, and they will make nice steps for my Wild Brambles veg garden. I'm thinking of growing some traditional medicinal herbs in a part of that, but first I need to dig the whole area, and clear some branches.