Can we agree BTC is not a store of value?

[thirdprize]

Listen to this podcast.
https://unconfirmed.libsyn.com/coronavirus-how-it-will-impact-bitcoin-and-the-halving-ep116
However much you want it to be, BTC is NOT a store of value.  It has been a few years since $20K and even now, each peak is smaller than the previous peak.  Probably be $3K by the end of the week.

[1715037573]

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[1715037573]

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[Yogee]

We can never agree on that because each individual investor have their own narrative. By the way, this topic is related to this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5232642.0

[o_e_l_e_o]

Nothing is a store of value at the moment. Global markets are down, gold, silver, copper and platinum are down, oil and gasoline are down, corn, wheat, cocoa, and coffee are down, futures are down, FTSE, CAC, DAX, IBEX, Hang Seng, Nikkei, Shanghai, RTS, ASX are all down. The only reason NASDAQ/Dow Jones/S&P have stabilized a bit today is because the government have cut interest rates yet again, now down to 0%, and announced yet another round of quantitative easing (although did the last round ever actually finish with all those "overnight" repos?) to the tune of $700 billion, with much more likely to come.

Everything is decimated at the moment, but the Fed have moved too early and are now out of ammo. They have nowhere to go from here other than printing even more money even faster than they already are, or negative interest rates, which will be a disaster for them. When fiat is rapidly devaluing because the Fed are injecting trillions in to the system, and you have to start paying your banks for the privilege of them holding your money, where do you think people might turn? This is only just beginning.

[joinfree]

Bitcoin is not a good store of value because the very people who claim to be supporting it are full of doubts about its future anytime its price drops. We need to learn how to trust the volatile system and also learn how to hodl during these times but in reality you can tell what people should do with their money so it ends up being dumped on the market. That's exactly what we are seeing at the moment with all the panic selling which is crushing the price of bitcoin.

[Broly46]

Not even gold is store of value in this climate, I’m watching at everything getting dumped and that’s absolutely out of this world, no logic behind what’s all the number ticking, but don’t be fooled, everything would adjusted to normal over the time amounting to weeks, months or even years, nobody can manipulate the true value of any asset forever.

[travwill]

I don’t think that we will reach $ 3000 again. In any case, if this happens, it will be the lowest mark, because the last time we were on it for a long time, and did not go down.
I believe we will stop at $ 4000 and will be on them until the crisis ends.

[mu_enrico]

If Bitcoin can be mainstream P2P cash, I would say NOT YET*. However, if it still used as a speculative asset, similar to stocks and metals, it will follow thereof price movements.

*No cash/assets can be 100% store of value in an extreme situation since the price is relative. Read about the diamond and water paradox, about how a glass of water can be more valuable than a diamond when you desperately need to drink. That said, when there is a world war or similar crisis, basic needs will be more expensive than anything.

[gentlemand]

One day it has the potential to be that one day. All the necessary elements are present.

As for the present fuck nooooo.

It's a toy, a bet and a plaything to obtain more dollars in the minds of most. I'm not sure who'll be left if most of those people clear off but they'll be back just as quickly if it's looking sunny.

[South Park]

Listen to this podcast.
https://unconfirmed.libsyn.com/coronavirus-how-it-will-impact-bitcoin-and-the-halving-ep116
However much you want it to be, BTC is NOT a store of value.  It has been a few years since $20K and even now, each peak is smaller than the previous peak.  Probably be $3K by the end of the week.

Bitcoin was not designed to be a store of value under the present circumstances, however I can assure you that in the case we go through an hyperinflation bitcoin together with gold will be one of the few assets that will outpace or at least keep up with the rate of inflation making it a store of value, and it seems that day is getting closer as Central Banks are really running out of options and the only weapon they have left to try to stabilize the situation is to print more money.

[Gozie51]

From the beginning and during the bull, bitcoin has not been considered as store of value for many. The criticism of this is because of its rate of increase and decrease. Just as the present, the price have kept falling and not having a stop because no indices or policy on it to cause a stop.

[johnyj]

Of course it is, still worth more than 160 barrel of brent oil per coin

If people can get rid of the habit of using fiat money to measure value of other things, then it is easier to see the truth

[Stedsm]

What I understand is: Look at this situation in an extremely different manner. Think of this as an opportunity.

Fear is what it takes for such situations to arise, just think, why the markets are dooming ATM? Think for a moment, if I were you, I'd definitely take a big advantage of this rampant situation and go all in over everything, from Gold to Stocks, from Alts to BTC. Just think that when the dust settles, what will you be with. You'll turn a penny into a pound with just minimum patience (considering that you don't encounter with this disease). And for everyone's information (real info and not-so-fake one that you're hearing through media), go find out cases which died through Coronavirus, you'll see that people above 50 and mostly >60 have died due to this and all the severe cases have around 85% of old aged people only, so this is not going to affect those with better immunity systems if - Either diagnosed at right time or - have taken correct measures like handwashing for 20 seconds every 3 hours, using a mask if necessary, use a tissue paper to cover the mouth while sneezing.

[Twentyonepaylots]

One day it has the potential to be that one day. All the necessary elements are present.

As for the present fuck nooooo.

I can't get it no, are you guys only sees bitcoin if the price is above $10K? a store of value when high and not when it is low?

It's a toy, a bet and a plaything to obtain more dollars in the minds of most. I'm not sure who'll be left if most of those people clear off but they'll be back just as quickly if it's looking sunny.

Okay I see, you guys are just making bitcoin a playable investment as most of the people in here but wouldn't it not be too obvious if you call it not a store of value as of the moment because of the its current state? That is why it is called cryptocurrency , a currency in it, wasn't made for investment but it became when the volatility over take. Hope the crisis ends.

[Febo]

Can we agree BTC is not a store of value?

Of course is not if on average change value for few % every day. It will take many many years before Bitcoin will become stable currency to be store of value.

[Broly46]

Of course the real store of value is nothing other than you as a men.

Property price soar to the record high and women can just scream “racist” and dozen of men will line up willingly to obligated and provide free housing to the women, but what can men do when facing such discrimination and they have to work their ass out of this hardship to get to what women can get with just crying “discriminate”, men has to work so many productive hours to afford a house that is flipped to the moon, that’s crying out loud but nobody will give a damn when you’re men.

I also despise the facts that women had it easy when it came to sex and relationships. Whereas women could sleep around easily, I would even feel jealous of their multiple sexcapades at such a young age, and they never had to improve themselves to enjoy the perks of a rich dating life. So basically I had to go through years of unprogramming, unlearning, studying game, learning escalation, working out, build muscle, eating right, facing countless rejection etc, just to get to where they already were all their lives.

[desertfox470]

I think everything is just going down atm, and although btc has been down for quite a while I think that the current drop cannot be attributed to bitcoin by itself. Rather just the economy as a whole has taken a toll and bitcoin is included in the mess. I think bitcoin is an innovation in thinking and business rather than storing someones value.

[Kemarit]

The whole narrative Bitcoin is a store of value has change because of the corona pandemic. We haven't seen this before, and we really don't know how to react. Even the traditional global markets is also reacting negatively isn't it? So currently, with the obvious dump, I would say yes, it could not be considered as a store of value. But nevertheless, in the future, when we have this kind of crisis again, maybe the whole context will change.

[gentlemand]

The whole narrative Bitcoin is a store of value has change because of the corona pandemic. We haven't seen this before, and we really don't know how to react. Even the traditional global markets is also reacting negatively isn't it? So currently, with the obvious dump, I would say yes, it could not be considered as a store of value. But nevertheless, in the future, when we have this kind of crisis again, maybe the whole context will change.

If Bitcoin was 100 years old and this was the first time it had happened then I think people would be more justified in feeling a little surprised. Since it didn't even exist the last time the world creamed its knickers I have little sympathy for anyone who's profoundly shocked by this.

[dnprock]

Long-term, Bitcoin is a Store of Value.

Short-term, Bitcoin is a speculative asset.

By long-term, I mean the time horizon is 5-10 years (more than 1 halving). This is my current thesis. We can divide Bitcoin owners into two groups: long-term hodlers and short-term traders. The groups are somewhat fluid. Some hodlers switch to trading. Some traders switch to holding.

Bitcoin's price movement is mostly controlled by traders in the short-term. But in the long-term, hodlers will ultimately decide the price movement. Bitcoin price long-term has been up. That suggests a growing number of hodlers. Data also suggests growing hodlers.

People will move their money around. Know your long-term timeline. Ignore short-term price movement.

[johnyj]

I think everything is just going down atm, and although btc has been down for quite a while I think that the current drop cannot be attributed to bitcoin by itself. Rather just the economy as a whole has taken a toll and bitcoin is included in the mess. I think bitcoin is an innovation in thinking and business rather than storing someones value.

Nothing is going down, just fiat money suddenly get a pump. Value is all relative, when EUR/USD exchange rate crashed, you can't say if it is EURO get cheaper or USD get more expensive

The real problem is that people use fiat money to count value, thus fiat money automatically become the stable store of value without government doing anything. Once this mindset is changed, things will be interesting, but so far, almost no one have the ability to understand this

[exstasie]

Nothing is a store of value at the moment. Global markets are down, gold, silver, copper and platinum are down, oil and gasoline are down, corn, wheat, cocoa, and coffee are down, futures are down, FTSE, CAC, DAX, IBEX, Hang Seng, Nikkei, Shanghai, RTS, ASX are all down.

Fiat currencies seem to be holding up just fine.

Everything is decimated at the moment, but the Fed have moved too early and are now out of ammo. They have nowhere to go from here other than printing even more money even faster than they already are, or negative interest rates, which will be a disaster for them.

I'll admit I'm concerned at how quickly the Fed slashed to zero rates and how little the markets reacted. At the same time, I see lots of parallels to the 1987 crash and my gut tells me the corona virus panic will subside soon.

[imstillthebest]

but who said it is  ? people and wanabe investors  ?  even the owner himself didnt mention anything related to it but he only claim that btc is a kind of digital currency  or can act as a payment method , nothing more nothing less  .

he didnt claim that its a form of store value because the owner already know that bitcoin will become volatile   but people then eventually labeled bitcoin as one it just because they see btc is increasing and sticking on its value for quite some time     . 

[Sadlife]

Nothing is set in stone, did you not notice that when the stocks fell and still continues to crash even today. Bitcoin also came down it's obvious to me that many stock traders and Institutional investors are heavily invested. If the current financial system falls down, with the bloody market they're experiencing and continues loses. They will surely look at Bitcoin as a good store if value.

[thesmallgod]

If you have stored your values in gold or even diamond, it would have been otherwise because the world is facing a global crisis and not the only bitcoin is affected but also other assets. The global stock markets are affected and this is what is trending since the rise of the coronavirus. I am sure if the price of bitcoin pumps up in a few days and goes above the peak it has reached this year, you will come here to say otherwise.

[Pffrt]

Other than GOLD every stock market and commodities have been affected by Corona. Gold was affected less because of its wide acceptance while BTC is not that widely accepted. I never used to see BTC as store of value although. It was always a currency to the inner me.
The recent drop was not only from the corona virus affect, there are some other issues which you must have to account before a calculation.

[Botnake]

Bitcoin is not stable, it's so volatile so we can't compare it with a proven asset like gold which is a good store of value.
However, as long as you don't sell your bitcoin and hold it long term, you'll never gonna lose money as history tells it has its bull period which gives the holders a good time to cash out.

Also, if you believe that adoption will increase in the long run, then we should not hesitate to consider it as a store of value as definitely the price will grow, due to strong adoption which would result to less manipulation by the whales.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Fiat currencies seem to be holding up just fine.

Maybe during the panic phase. People are pulling their money out of all these other falling markets, and so fiat gets an artificial boost. Most experts are now suggesting several months of lockdown, quarantines, school, college, university closures, bar, restaurant, club closures, etc. Retail industry collapse, service industry collapse, travel and tourism industries collapse. We are already seeing hundreds of thousands of jobs being lost and the shutdowns have barely even begun. Economies will start to tank and fiat currencies along with them.

my gut tells me the corona virus panic will subside soon.

The panic will subside soon as the novelty wears off, and the panic buying will subside as you can only hoard so much and a lot of people will soon be struggling for income. However, the virus and the shutdowns will not. This is expected to drag on for months.

[FlightyPouch]

However much you want it to be, BTC is NOT a store of value.  It has been a few years since $20K and even now, each peak is smaller than the previous peak.  Probably be $3K by the end of the week.

I think bitcoin being a store of value is still debatable despite its volatility. If we will be tracking the price changes over the years, you can still see that people will be having good profits despite the huge dumps. Now that the price is lower, people might take advantage of it so I don't think it will fall further to $3K. Right now, it is getting stable at $5K and then the halving is getting close so I think that would be the lowest this year.

[wozzek23]

Listen to this podcast.
https://unconfirmed.libsyn.com/coronavirus-how-it-will-impact-bitcoin-and-the-halving-ep116
However much you want it to be, BTC is NOT a store of value.  It has been a few years since $20K and even now, each peak is smaller than the previous peak.  Probably be $3K by the end of the week.

I’m sorry mate I am still not going to agree to that. What about gold? Everyone keeps saying that gold is a safe haven, but didn’t you see that the price of gold dropped from the over $57k and down to $45k or so (I think a bit above or less that). And yes Bitcoin was also affected, but does that make gold to be anything better than Bitcoin? No! They were both affected so they are probably the same.

If you’re looking for something that can be used as a means for store of value, you should go for whatever you want to use, anything can be used as a store value, as long as it works for you. They can’t be profitable at all times.

[AniviaBtc]

Not even gold is store of value in this climate, I’m watching at everything getting dumped and that’s absolutely out of this world, no logic behind what’s all the number ticking, but don’t be fooled, everything would adjusted to normal over the time amounting to weeks, months or even years, nobody can manipulate the true value of any asset forever.

The best thing to do is to invest a business so that you will not have a hard time manipulating your money. Also if you invest your money, although it is still uncertain, it depends on how you manage the business you started. Don't rely on BTC during times like this, but if your predictions are good and you can really think critically about what will happen in the near future, then you must really trust BTC. Everything is risky when money are involved so you need to be careful on your decisions and be responsible to your actions. BTC is somehow good as a store of value since 2017, but this time I think you should focus on other things and just hold all your bitcoin.

[exstasie]

Fiat currencies seem to be holding up just fine.

Maybe during the panic phase. People are pulling their money out of all these other falling markets, and so fiat gets an artificial boost. Most experts are now suggesting several months of lockdown, quarantines, school, college, university closures, bar, restaurant, club closures, etc. Retail industry collapse, service industry collapse, travel and tourism industries collapse. We are already seeing hundreds of thousands of jobs being lost and the shutdowns have barely even begun. Economies will start to tank and fiat currencies along with them.

That last sentence is a real stretch. Gold investors have been predicting this imminent collapse of fiat money for several decades, and BTC investors have been repeating the same thing ever since Bitcoin was launched. I'm skeptical. There is a big difference between an economic crash/recession and a currency collapse. You're exaggerating how easily the entire financial system can just collapse.

Regarding a market recovery or lack thereof, you're expecting the worst case scenario, as are most people. When I look around, it looks like peak hysteria. I'm not sure this panic can maintain much longer before people realize that life goes on, and a contraction is more or less priced in. A 30-35% crash, like the 1987 crash, could easily be enough. Especially if it turns out (as I expect) that mortality rates, overall infection estimates, and doomsday economic estimates get revised away from the extremes.

However, the virus and the shutdowns will not. This is expected to drag on for months.

Bubbles and crashes are all about psychology. They have little to do with fundamentals. The panic is what really matters. The market pricing in a small or moderate contraction is one thing. Investors endlessly panic selling because they fear everything is going to $0 is another.

The question for me is, is this a 1987? A 2008? Something totally different? It's not always the worst case scenario.

[o_e_l_e_o]

A 30-35% crash, like the 1987 crash, could easily be enough.

We've already seen a 30% crash in the markets. A month ago, NASDAQ was at 9,800. Today it's at 6,900. Dow Jones from 29,300 to 20,200. Most foreign markets - FTSE, CAC, DAX, etc - are showing similar 30% drops. This is even with the Fed announcing another $700 billion of QE and cutting interest rates twice to zero percent. And even now, we've haven't even begun a proper quarantine, and the suggestions coming from the WHO and top medical/scientific advisors is that this could last for months. Governments around the world are already starting to bail out airlines and other travel companies after only a week or so. I hope you're right, mostly for the sake of all the people who are going to be out of jobs and struggling to get by, but I fear this is just getting started.

[South Park]

A 30-35% crash, like the 1987 crash, could easily be enough.

We've already seen a 30% crash in the markets. A month ago, NASDAQ was at 9,800. Today it's at 6,900. Dow Jones from 29,300 to 20,200. Most foreign markets - FTSE, CAC, DAX, etc - are showing similar 30% drops. This is even with the Fed announcing another $700 billion of QE and cutting interest rates twice to zero percent. And even now, we've haven't even begun a proper quarantine, and the suggestions coming from the WHO and top medical/scientific advisors is that this could last for months. Governments around the world are already starting to bail out airlines and other travel companies after only a week or so. I hope you're right, mostly for the sake of all the people who are going to be out of jobs and struggling to get by, but I fear this is just getting started.

I believe this is just starting as well, many people are not going to be able to stay in their homes for weeks since they do not have the money to do so, but even if they want to work there will be no way to earn more money as many business will not hire anyone when most people are remaining in their homes, so most likely the rate of spread of the virus will go down for now but it will probably accelerate again as people try to continue with their lives making the economic crisis even worse.

[fiulpro]

I do think that one cannot just make assumptions dependent on the price chart and therefore one should understand that this is how it works , bitcoins is not a fiat , it is not backed up by anything nor it is controlled by any governmental authority .
One should understand that the only thing that is important is it is not a death sentence for bitcoins , it is not like it is going to not spike back up because once the market works better and people understand how important bitcoins is for the people one way or the other , we can say it is a store of Value , the value is not controlled so it can do up and down anytime.

[desertfox470]

A 30-35% crash, like the 1987 crash, could easily be enough.

We've already seen a 30% crash in the markets. A month ago, NASDAQ was at 9,800. Today it's at 6,900. Dow Jones from 29,300 to 20,200. Most foreign markets - FTSE, CAC, DAX, etc - are showing similar 30% drops. This is even with the Fed announcing another $700 billion of QE and cutting interest rates twice to zero percent. And even now, we've haven't even begun a proper quarantine, and the suggestions coming from the WHO and top medical/scientific advisors is that this could last for months. Governments around the world are already starting to bail out airlines and other travel companies after only a week or so. I hope you're right, mostly for the sake of all the people who are going to be out of jobs and struggling to get by, but I fear this is just getting started.

I believe this is just starting as well, many people are not going to be able to stay in their homes for weeks since they do not have the money to do so, but even if they want to work there will be no way to earn more money as many business will not hire anyone when most people are remaining in their homes, so most likely the rate of spread of the virus will go down for now but it will probably accelerate again as people try to continue with their lives making the economic crisis even worse.

This may be off-topic, but one major thing that I don't understand is how self quarantining in our houses helps defeat the virus as international travel and life will continue to go on. Is it just to slow down the curve of people getting the virus so that it will progress at a slower rate? I am self quarantining, but don't fully understand it haha.

[o_e_l_e_o]

but even if they want to work there will be no way to earn more money as many business will not hire anyone

I've seen reports from multiple countries of supermarkets, delivery/transport/logistics companies, and online retailers, trying to hire thousands of temporary workers to help meet demand. Everything from people to stack the shelves to delivery drivers and warehouse workers. If you suddenly find yourself on unpaid leave or let go from your job, then this would be a great place to start looking for work if you need it. Walmart alone in the US are trying to hire 150,000 temporary workers.

bitcoins is not a fiat , it is not backed up by anything nor it is controlled by any governmental authority .

Since I obviously can't hear your tone or inflections over the internet, it is impossible to tell if you are meaning this as a good thing or as a bad thing. As you say, bitcoin is not fiat and is not backed up the government, and that's what makes it so much better. Fiat is backed up by less than nothing. It rapidly and consistently devalues, being backed up by governments which are trillions of dollars in debt, running trillions of dollars in deficits, and which print more fiat out of thin air as and when they please.

Is it just to slow down the curve of people getting the virus so that it will progress at a slower rate?

Yes. It's called "flattening the curve". The major issue with this virus is how many people are requiring admission to intensive care and ventilation to treat their lung disease. If tens of thousands of people catch the disease at once (as is currently happening the world over), intensive care units quickly reach capacity, and a lot of people who may have lived had they received intensive care will die, simply because there are no resources remaining. If we can spread the infection rates out over a longer period of time, then there is more of a steady trickle in to intensive care, rather than a flood, and resources can be spread around more people, resulting in fewer deaths.

Have a read of this article for more info: https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-flatten-the-curve.html

[FanEagle]

Well, it used to be, but somewhere along the way that changed for a reason we have no idea why. I mean normally bitcoin price was at least acting as if it was a store of value but now its not and its not even all that long ago neither.

Just remember couple months ago when Iran and USA had a trouble, remember how the price went up? That shows that just a month or so ago people were thinking how bitcoin was a store of value and they were running away from a war and putting their money into crypto. However today, just a month or so later we see it going down like crazy with everything else.

So, all we can say is that bitcoin is basically a store of value whenever people want to and not a store of value whenever people just do not want it. We can't know which one will happen when.

[exstasie]

A 30-35% crash, like the 1987 crash, could easily be enough.

We've already seen a 30% crash in the markets.

That was the point.

I hope you're right, mostly for the sake of all the people who are going to be out of jobs and struggling to get by, but I fear this is just getting started.

You and everyone else. As the news cycle shifts to the west, everyone seems to be ignoring China's miraculous recovery:

The magnitude of the global slowdown is huge and in some ways unprecedented but at the same time, the extremely swift recovery in China is leading to expectations of a V-shaped dip in GDP growth: https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/coronavirus-recession-worst-wwii-economic-recovery-global-deutsche-bank-2020-3-1029012757

China will see its gross domestic product slump by 31.7% in the first quarter before rocketing to 34% in the following three-month period, the economists said.

There are still lots of unknowns. For all I know, this is a Great Recession/Depression situation. All I'm saying is, consider the speed and magnitude of the drop and the hysteria surrounding it. If the outlook improves (I know, I know, you think it's impossible) the relief rally will be enormous.

If the rest of the world follows China's recovery, I'm betting on this model holding up:

The big question for me still: is this a short term contraction (months) that does not coincide with a larger recession, like 1987?

[o_e_l_e_o]

As the news cycle shifts to the west, everyone seems to be ignoring China's miraculous recovery

China have made a good recovery because they implemented strict quarantine policies early, and have only just started to ease up on them. Since new cases can have a lag time of up to 14 days between becoming infected and showing symptoms, and during those 14 days you can still infect others, any new social distancing or quarantine measures will not begin to be reflected in the count of new cases for 7-14 days, and only after several weeks will you see the real difference it made to the exponential spread of this virus. The US has now passed China in terms of cases per million population, but China have already been on full lockdown for months. The US still has bars, clubs, schools, universities, etc., all open. Huge parties for St Patrick's Day and Spring Break. The lockdown in China was swift and far more restrictive than anything we have seen in the US yet. We won't see the full ramifications of the US's lack of action for several weeks yet, but this is far from over.

Look at Italy for example. They are absolutely crippled right now. Their measures were slower than those of China, but still faster than the US.

[hatshepsut93]

Long-term, Bitcoin is a Store of Value.

Short-term, Bitcoin is a speculative asset.

By long-term, I mean the time horizon is 5-10 years (more than 1 halving). This is my current thesis. We can divide Bitcoin owners into two groups: long-term hodlers and short-term traders. The groups are somewhat fluid. Some hodlers switch to trading. Some traders switch to holding.

Bitcoin's price movement is mostly controlled by traders in the short-term. But in the long-term, hodlers will ultimately decide the price movement. Bitcoin price long-term has been up. That suggests a growing number of hodlers. Data also suggests growing hodlers.

People will move their money around. Know your long-term timeline. Ignore short-term price movement.

5-10 years isn't really a long term, I bet nothing will seriously change in Bitcoin - the price will be higher than it is now, but it still would be speculative and risky. If some other major crisis will happen at that time, Bitcoin would probably react just as it did now.

Bitcoin today is ten times higher than it was 4-5 years ago, and still it is just as volatile. It will take really-really long for Bitcoin to become a mainstream asset like gold, if it will actually happen.

[BITCOIN4X]

Bitcoin's price movement is mostly controlled by traders in the short-term. But in the long-term, hodlers will ultimately decide the price movement. Bitcoin price long-term has been up. That suggests a growing number of hodlers. Data also suggests growing hodlers.

I would say that the price of bitcoin is entirely determined by active traders and not just most of it because the market is always active and prices continue to fluctuate then I think both in the short run or in the long run prices will still be determined by traders.

Holders will enjoy the benefits of active trading results carried out by traders today if the price exceeds the issued capital and will suffer losses if the trader currently wants a lower price. Suply and demand made by traders today will determine whether the holder gets profit or loss.

5-10 years isn't really a long term, I bet nothing will seriously change in Bitcoin - the price will be higher than it is now, but it still would be speculative and risky. If some other major crisis will happen at that time, Bitcoin would probably react just as it did now.

Agree with you, there is no certainty about the price of bitcoin for a long time and the price can still be 5 times higher than now and also can still be lower. Many things can affect the demand and supply in the market and one of them is the crisis and even global health problems such as a pandemic.

[arrmia11]

We can never agree on that because each individual investor have their own narrative. By the way, this topic is related to this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5232642.0

Yes indeed because every investor have they own opinion on their own we can't force them to do on what we want to do we need to cooperate with them we dont meed to tell them on what they gonna do, just like you said they have their on narrative and we cant blame them.

[webtricks]

Bitcoin is digital currency payment and not store value, when your store can accepted bitcoin as payment transaction is not make you must have the same value between your store and bitcoin. Just looking how many people are interested with your accepted payment method using bitcoin and how much advantage than using cash money and bitcoin transaction.

I think you have misinterpreted the definition of 'store of value'.

Store of Value means storing the value in something and use the same value in future. In other words, anything which makes us capable of transferring purchasing power to future is store of value.

Your first line says,
Bitcoin is digital currency payment and not store value

But in reality, money is the biggest and most widely used mode of store of value. In fact, store of value is one of the three fundamental functions of money, other being medium of exchange and unit of account. For example, if I have 100 kg wheat but I only need 10 kg for now and I am worried that rest will perish, then I will simply sell the rest and keep the money in my wardrobe. Once my 10 kg wheat finishes, I will buy more with the money from my wardrobe. In this way, money acts as a store of value for 90 kg wheat which could be used in future.

However, in real world, money as a store of value fails due to the inflation. Hence more modern forms like bonds, etc are preferred as store of value.

People also think that stocks and Bitcoin (or cryptocurrencies) are store of value too. But we shall never consider such volatile assets as the store of value. We invest in such assets for returns. Store of value is conservative economic goal while return on investment is aggressive economic goal. So BIG NO! if you are investing money in Bitcoin to store value.

[o_e_l_e_o]

That was the point.

Another big fall of around 3% in most markets today, on the background of ongoing downward trends. This is despite the Fed announcing unlimited quantitative easing, which is absolutely crazy. Setting no limit on the amount of money they will print or the amount of bonds or assets they will buy is unprecedented, and certainly far more than they have ever done before. They announced another $4 trillion today in the first instance, which is more than they printed over several years following the 2008 crash. Meanwhile, we are looking pretty similar to both 1987 and to the Great Depression, with no signs of stopping anytime soon.





Interesting that while the markets fell further, bitcoin has reversed and has climbed again. Is this in direct response to the Fed effectively turning USD in to monopoly money?

But in reality, money is the biggest and most widely used mode of store of value.

True, but fiat money is a terrible store of value. USD has lost >95% of its value over the last 100 years, and given what I've just discussed above, it's about to lose a lot more.

[webtricks]

~~

Ain't FED looking so much desperate? I fear depreciation of US Dollar will impact most of the global currencies because major portion of the FOREX maintained by many countries is in US Dollar.

But in reality, money is the biggest and most widely used mode of store of value.

True, but fiat money is a terrible store of value. USD has lost >95% of its value over the last 100 years, and given what I've just discussed above, it's about to lose a lot more.

Yeah. I stopped considering fiat money as a store of value, the day I learnt about 'Minimum Reserve System'. In India, central banking authority i.e. RBI can print any amount of currency as long as it maintains the minimum reserve of 2 billion Indian Rupees (~ $26M) in gold and Forex (62.25% gold and 37.5% Forex). I mean really! You guys are printing n number of notes just because you have some $26M value of gold and Forex underlying!

That's the most awful concept I read during my graduation years. This clearly shows why Indian Rupee is too prone to depreciate over years. Minimum Reserve System was adopted in India in 1956 and since then INR have depreciated 97% against US Dollar.

[o_e_l_e_o]

In India, central banking authority i.e. RBI can print any amount of currency as long as it maintains the minimum reserve of 2 billion Indian Rupees (~ $26M) in gold and Forex (62.25% gold and 37.5% Forex). I mean really! You guys are printing n number of notes just because you have some $26M value of gold and Forex underlying!

It's a ridiculous system, but the Fed have gone a step further with USD over the last week. They have given both themselves and all major banks the ability to print as much money as they want without any requirement whatsoever for any amount of reserve. They can buy unlimited amounts of bonds, assets, securities, etc., and have said they will buy "as many as needed", without having any kind of reserve. Meanwhile, banks have had their minimum reserve requirement cut from 10% to 0%, meaning they can create and lend unlimited amounts of money to each other and their customers, again, without any kind of reserve.

If I launched an altcoin and said it was worth 1 USD/INR/EUR/whatever, but then also said that I can create unlimited amount of new coins out of thin air as and when I please, and that I've also given that same power to a bunch of my friends, and we can all simply create coins to buy anything we like or dump them on the market whenever we please, I would be called a scammer and flooded with red trust. But for some reason when the government does it, everyone is cool with it?

Fiat is a scam.

[freddy2020]

Bitcoin is def a store of value, way more so than gold.

What is gold? an unlimited inflationary resource.

People who think Bitcoin is just a digital payment system for microtransactions are plain wrong. POW is in no way meant to be used to confirm small payments. The "cash trolls" chains are plain wrong.

[Questat]

That's the problem when you panic right away, the time you made this thread, there was a panic selling, bitcoin dropped and  we thought this will take time to recover, but, look at the market now, bitcoin is likely to hit $7000 again if the uptrend will continue, then we can say that it's a store of value now.

FED print infinite cash, so bitcoin is a store of value, aside from gold of course.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-price-surging-toward-7k-after-fed-says-it-has-infinite-cash

[freddy2020]

That's the problem when you panic right away, the time you made this thread, there was a panic selling, bitcoin dropped and  we thought this will take time to recover, but, look at the market now, bitcoin is likely to hit $7000 again if the uptrend will continue, then we can say that it's a store of value now.

FED print infinite cash, so bitcoin is a store of value, aside from gold of course.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-price-surging-toward-7k-after-fed-says-it-has-infinite-cash

That's the problem when you panic right away, the time you made this thread, there was a panic selling, bitcoin dropped and  we thought this will take time to recover, but, look at the market now, bitcoin is likely to hit $7000 again if the uptrend will continue, then we can say that it's a store of value now.

FED print infinite cash, so bitcoin is a store of value, aside from gold of course.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-price-surging-toward-7k-after-fed-says-it-has-infinite-cash

I agree with you.
Even when price is down its valuable. 7000 is massive, but still such a small number. 1 million is going to happen, so is 100 dollar transaction fees.

[mindrust]

China might be hiding its real numbers though. I don't blindly trust any information China puts up.

BTC is a store of value only if you have proper risk management. I learnt it by the hard way.

[TheGreatPython]

Can we now call it a store of value? Because, as you can see while the world is going to shit and many nations are at the blink of bankruptcy and IMF is offering TRILLIONS in relief efforts with close to zero interest rate so all in all the economy is terrible right now.

However crypto is recovering, many coins are amazingly high, that is why there is a store of value talks going around in crypto, that is why bitcoin should be held no matter what. Hell there is a dilemma that since bitcoin will ALWAYS go up forever in the long run, so whenever you sell bitcoin you are losing money in the long term, so if you buy it and you can't sell it, that means its futile, so in order to make it profitable, you have to sell and lose on future profits and just take the current profit.

[Vishnu.Reang]

There can be arguments both against and in favor of this. Bitcoin satisfies certain conditions which qualify for usage as a store of value. For example, it is protected from inflation through the principle of controlled supply, and at the same time it is not controlled by any of the central banks or financial institutions. But at the same time, its volatility and limited liquidity goes against the usage for such purpose.

[o_e_l_e_o]

What is gold? an unlimited inflationary resource.

In what way is gold either unlimited or inflationary?

FED print infinite cash, so bitcoin is a store of value

It is interesting that bitcoin decoupled from the ongoing stock market crash and reversed direction at the same time the Fed announced they would print an unlimited amount of money. Simply coincidence, or are people starting to realize that bitcoin is a great hedge against fiat/monopoly money?

1 million is going to happen, so is 100 dollar transaction fees.

Even if bitcoin hit $1 million (and that's a massive if), then a standard one-input-two-ouput SegWit transaction of somewhere around 200-300 vbytes would still only be $2-3 at 1 sat/vbyte, so $100 is a bit of an overstatement. And that's without even considering off chain solutions such as Lightning.

[mersal]

Bitcoin is nit a store of value,its is a currency which holds its value from demand and supply.But currently its like more than a store of value,it seems like a life saviour since price starts to recover from the huge fall when the whole global economy got collapsed due to the corona pandemic reaction.

[South Park]

Well, it used to be, but somewhere along the way that changed for a reason we have no idea why. I mean normally bitcoin price was at least acting as if it was a store of value but now its not and its not even all that long ago neither.

Just remember couple months ago when Iran and USA had a trouble, remember how the price went up? That shows that just a month or so ago people were thinking how bitcoin was a store of value and they were running away from a war and putting their money into crypto. However today, just a month or so later we see it going down like crazy with everything else.

So, all we can say is that bitcoin is basically a store of value whenever people want to and not a store of value whenever people just do not want it. We can't know which one will happen when.

Historically at the beginning of an important crisis everything takes a beating and goes down in price, at the time this seems to dispel the idea of any asset being a store of value and many people prefer to keep their usual behaviour even under those difficult circumstances, but after some time assets that are a store of value begin to recover their value and keep growing as governments try to resolve the situation but instead they make it even worse, bitcoin is now above 6700 and its recovery has been really quick especially if we compare it to the stock markets that are still in a bad position after the crash they suffered.

[dnprock]

Long-term, Bitcoin is a Store of Value.

Short-term, Bitcoin is a speculative asset.

By long-term, I mean the time horizon is 5-10 years (more than 1 halving). This is my current thesis. We can divide Bitcoin owners into two groups: long-term hodlers and short-term traders. The groups are somewhat fluid. Some hodlers switch to trading. Some traders switch to holding.

Bitcoin's price movement is mostly controlled by traders in the short-term. But in the long-term, hodlers will ultimately decide the price movement. Bitcoin price long-term has been up. That suggests a growing number of hodlers. Data also suggests growing hodlers.

People will move their money around. Know your long-term timeline. Ignore short-term price movement.

5-10 years isn't really a long term, I bet nothing will seriously change in Bitcoin - the price will be higher than it is now, but it still would be speculative and risky. If some other major crisis will happen at that time, Bitcoin would probably react just as it did now.

Bitcoin today is ten times higher than it was 4-5 years ago, and still it is just as volatile. It will take really-really long for Bitcoin to become a mainstream asset like gold, if it will actually happen.

I agree that the return is not guaranteed. Even the famous Stock-to-Flow model is showing weakness in this downturn. I put 5-10 years for reference. Adults working timespan ranges 40-50 years. Volatility does not disqualify SoV function. Gold is highly volatile as well. The most important feature is retaining value over time. If an asset can deliver an above-average return, I would consider it a Store of Value.

Bitcoin's price movement is mostly controlled by traders in the short-term. But in the long-term, hodlers will ultimately decide the price movement. Bitcoin price long-term has been up. That suggests a growing number of hodlers. Data also suggests growing hodlers.

I would say that the price of bitcoin is entirely determined by active traders and not just most of it because the market is always active and prices continue to fluctuate then I think both in the short run or in the long run prices will still be determined by traders.

Holders will enjoy the benefits of active trading results carried out by traders today if the price exceeds the issued capital and will suffer losses if the trader currently wants a lower price. Suply and demand made by traders today will determine whether the holder gets profit or loss.

5-10 years isn't really a long term, I bet nothing will seriously change in Bitcoin - the price will be higher than it is now, but it still would be speculative and risky. If some other major crisis will happen at that time, Bitcoin would probably react just as it did now.

Agree with you, there is no certainty about the price of bitcoin for a long time and the price can still be 5 times higher than now and also can still be lower. Many things can affect the demand and supply in the market and one of them is the crisis and even global health problems such as a pandemic.

There's always a group of hodlers who are constantly buying bitcoins. They do affect the price. The data has shown a growing number of hodlers.

https://plotly.com/~unchained/37/bitcoin-utxo-age-distribution/#/

The current 5y hodler sits at 21%.

[beerlover]

How do you decide if something is store of value or not? I mean do you look at it during bad times only? Do you look at it over time only? What makes something just a store of value thing? Look at gold for example, it literally dropped during this period and it is widely regarded as the most store of value thing in the world.

People literally buy grams of gold all around the world for store of value and in case anything goes bad, that's GLOBAL, we are talking about trillions of dollars. So, if you think bitcoin is not a store of value because of the drop we had this month, do you also think that gold is not one as well? I doubt anyone could say that. In all regards bitcoin IS a store of value, just not all the time and also not as commonly known as gold, that's it.

[Kasabus]

How do you decide if something is store of value or not? I mean do you look at it during bad times only? Do you look at it over time only? What makes something just a store of value thing? Look at gold for example, it literally dropped during this period and it is widely regarded as the most store of value thing in the world.

People literally buy grams of gold all around the world for store of value and in case anything goes bad, that's GLOBAL, we are talking about trillions of dollars. So, if you think bitcoin is not a store of value because of the drop we had this month, do you also think that gold is not one as well? I doubt anyone could say that. In all regards bitcoin IS a store of value, just not all the time and also not as commonly known as gold, that's it.

Bitcoin may not be a store of value for the present time because the government are still crashing into fiat for basic purposes. But i believe soon it will be a good store of value when all countries take part in using it as a currency just like what they did when fiat currency was still newly introduced.

[BitcoinTurk]

Unfortunately, we cannot evaluate Bitcoin as a means of value retention, while even investment instruments that are considered safe ports in today's market conditions have a very unstable price movement. In addition, if we comment outside of today's market, I would like to say that Bitcoin will never be used as a value storage tool because large investors can control the price easily. As such, no investor will want to hold his money in such a manipulative investment instrument to protect himself. Regardless of today's market conditions and the conditions of Bitcoin and crypto markets, unfortunately, the situation you are talking about does not seem to be possible. I don't know if there will be a change in the coming years, but my opinion is that Bitcoin will never be a value storage currency.

[bearexin]

Bitcoin is a currency, it was always seen as a currency when it was created, it wasn't a commodity, it wasn't an investment, it was something you use, you earn, you spend, not something you buy and sell. At least that is how it first got created, after a while we realized that maybe we are wrong and we started to see it as an investment and that is when things started to change. What do you talk about the most when you talk about bitcoin? It is usually the price isn't it?

People talk about the price of bitcoin more than any other feature of it. Which is why it was said that it could be a store of value, it still could be but that wasn't the point of it to begin with. Hopefully one day people will realize that bitcoin is actually just a currency and not a commodity.

[mu_enrico]

Bitcoin is a currency, it was always seen as a currency when it was created, it wasn't a commodity, it wasn't an investment, it was something you use, you earn, you spend, not something you buy and sell

Yea, but if someone wants Bitcoin, he should be able to exchange something to get it. It can be anything from time (work), other forms of currencies, other commodities, etc., these create markets in nature.

When there is a market, there always people who speculate on it. Any idea of how to deal with this speculative thing?

[Questat]

Bitcoin is a currency, it was always seen as a currency when it was created, it wasn't a commodity, it wasn't an investment, it was something you use, you earn, you spend, not something you buy and sell

Yea, but if someone wants Bitcoin, he should be able to exchange something to get it. It can be anything from time (work), other forms of currencies, other commodities, etc., these create markets in nature.

When there is a market, there always people who speculate on it. Any idea of how to deal with this speculative thing?

If bitcoin is only use for purely currency, this will not grow, the reason why bitcoin rise to almost $20,000 last 2017 was because of its speculative nature and people are speculating that there will be a massive adoption which would eventually increase its value.

For me, this since crypto is called decentralized, we can't change its nature, we have to adopt with it but we can't change it and that gives us a real transparency over the fiat system.

[Spaffin]

So far, Bitcoin has not yet reached its maximum performance and does not have the stability that would give confidence for each cryptocurrency user in the safety of his personal funds.  Based on what we see today, Bitcoin is used more as a long-term investment, and not as a storehouse.  Even though there are quite a lot of opportunities to use Bitcoin as a means of payment, I do not do this, because I understand that the value of Bitcoin is much higher than the one for which I can spend my bitcoin.

[naaimmd]

Listen to this podcast.
https://unconfirmed.libsyn.com/coronavirus-how-it-will-impact-bitcoin-and-the-halving-ep116
However much you want it to be, BTC is NOT a store of value.  It has been a few years since $20K and even now, each peak is smaller than the previous peak.  Probably be $3K by the end of the week.

I think BTC will go down again below if holder start dumping but for now safe zone 5200$ if it go below than it will go down 3k$ for sure and now the europian country is affected and I think many people from those countries hold a high number of BTC so we need to prepare for another dump and we might not see this year 10k$ but crypto is really unstable and no one know which way it will go for sure let's hope best for now.

[tbterryboy]

Listen to this podcast.
https://unconfirmed.libsyn.com/coronavirus-how-it-will-impact-bitcoin-and-the-halving-ep116
However much you want it to be, BTC is NOT a store of value.  It has been a few years since $20K and even now, each peak is smaller than the previous peak.  Probably be $3K by the end of the week.

Well, I have never for once seen it as a store of value; to me, bitcoin is not a store of value, it’s just an investment and whatever goes into bitcoin is what I can afford to risk and apart from that I also use it for transactions in cases or places where it’s possible that I can make use of cryptocurrency, and those are few.

When I invest in bitcoin and altcoins I already know that there are risks that are involved in buying and storing them, so I relax and wait till the price goes up and when it reaches a rate where I’m completely okay with it, that’s when I sell it and convert to whatever I want to convert.

[FlightyPouch]

Listen to this podcast.
https://unconfirmed.libsyn.com/coronavirus-how-it-will-impact-bitcoin-and-the-halving-ep116
However much you want it to be, BTC is NOT a store of value.  It has been a few years since $20K and even now, each peak is smaller than the previous peak.  Probably be $3K by the end of the week.

I think BTC will go down again below if holder start dumping but for now safe zone 5200$ if it go below than it will go down 3k$ for sure and now the europian country is affected and I think many people from those countries hold a high number of BTC so we need to prepare for another dump and we might not see this year 10k$ but crypto is really unstable and no one know which way it will go for sure let's hope best for now.

Well I don' think they would dump bitcoin that quickly. Stocks are the one directly affected by this pandemic and I am not surprised if some investors there bought bitcoin. Also, we've already seen the price of bitcoin reaching $10K this year, but then again it dumped back to $4K and now jumped to $6K, that's volatility for you. The price may dump but I don't see it lasting since people would just take those dumps for granted.

[TopExchanger]

When the global market is down nothing can be a reliable store of value. Now everything is decimated. Bitcoin isn't an exception + get into consideration its volatility.   

[Botnake]

When the global market is down nothing can be a reliable store of value.

But we still choose something that we think would help us to store our money, and for me that should be bitcoin as I believe on its potential.

Now everything is decimated. Bitcoin isn't an exception + get into consideration its volatility.   

Volatility is quite a nature of bitcoin already, that is due to the fact that it has limited supply and there is no specific demand yet and it's been traded as well, so when people like to speculate, this will move the asset, but its long term is actually good, it would not reach at the current price if people does not believe on bitcoin.

[South Park]

How do you decide if something is store of value or not? I mean do you look at it during bad times only? Do you look at it over time only? What makes something just a store of value thing? Look at gold for example, it literally dropped during this period and it is widely regarded as the most store of value thing in the world.

People literally buy grams of gold all around the world for store of value and in case anything goes bad, that's GLOBAL, we are talking about trillions of dollars. So, if you think bitcoin is not a store of value because of the drop we had this month, do you also think that gold is not one as well? I doubt anyone could say that. In all regards bitcoin IS a store of value, just not all the time and also not as commonly known as gold, that's it.

While I believe that bitcoin is a store of value, gold has a tremendous advantage that cannot be underestimated, gold has been a store of value for thousands of years and even people that do not know a lot about how the economy works know that fact, so if things get really ugly there is no doubt in my mind the price of gold will go up for sure, but that kind of awareness is still not present when it comes to bitcoin, but it will eventually come as most likely in the future holding and using gold will become more difficult as governments try to stop people from doing so.

[slashz9]

Bitcoin is not a good store of value because the very people who claim to be supporting it are full of doubts about its future anytime its price drops. We need to learn how to trust the volatile system and also learn how to hodl during these times but in reality you can tell what people should do with their money so it ends up being dumped on the market. That's exactly what we are seeing at the moment with all the panic selling which is crushing the price of bitcoin.

at this time because of the economic crisis caused by corona even all market sectors also fell, so fully you can not blame btc for this incident.
I know crypto is a terrible investment place for new people because anytime the value can go up / down drastically.
but at least people still use it this indicates that the BTC is still in interest and is used as a means of investment.

[fabiorem]

The recent crash has proven it is not.

Bitcoin was built to withstand those crisis. The COVID19 black swan event was a crucial opportunity for bitcoin to show its worthy as a store of value. Instead, it dropped more than the stock market (with the exception of flying companies), thanks to the derivatives casino called Bitmex.

I pointed out several times bitcoin would have the same destiny of gold if paper speculation was allowed in the sector. Now every idiot out there want to blame COVID19, but by doing that, they are admitting bitcoin is not a store of value, since it followed the legacy system in the crash.

What to do from here? I'm going to apply a inverted DCA strategy, where, instead of buying small quantities periodically, I will be selling, until my stash is depleted. This will give enough time for bitcoin to rebounce, but make no mistake, it is not a store of value anymore, much less a currency for daily use. Unless something is done against paper speculation, bitcoin will be no more than a product from the fiat system.

[by rallier]

The recent crash has proven it is not.

Bitcoin was built to withstand those crisis. The COVID19 black swan event was a crucial opportunity for bitcoin to show its worthy as a store of value. Instead, it dropped more than the stock market (with the exception of flying companies), thanks to the derivatives casino called Bitmex.

I pointed out several times bitcoin would have the same destiny of gold if paper speculation was allowed in the sector. Now every idiot out there want to blame COVID19, but by doing that, they are admitting bitcoin is not a store of value, since it followed the legacy system in the crash.

...

Yes, you are right, But I will give another chance to BTC because The world is going an economical crisis, a huge one. If it will show itself, we can count COVID-19 as an exception. I think there is an exception for Covid-19, that's not only economical trouble as you know

[Questat]

The recent crash has proven it is not.

Bitcoin was built to withstand those crisis. The COVID19 black swan event was a crucial opportunity for bitcoin to show its worthy as a store of value. Instead, it dropped more than the stock market (with the exception of flying companies), thanks to the derivatives casino called Bitmex.

I pointed out several times bitcoin would have the same destiny of gold if paper speculation was allowed in the sector. Now every idiot out there want to blame COVID19, but by doing that, they are admitting bitcoin is not a store of value, since it followed the legacy system in the crash.

...

Yes, you are right, But I will give another chance to BTC because The world is going an economical crisis, a huge one. If it will show itself, we can count COVID-19 as an exception. I think there is an exception for Covid-19, that's not only economical trouble as you know

True, the COVID-19 destroy every market, people should not blame the crypto market if it will dump as the stocks are falling as well.
Bitcoin is even quite stronger at this stage because it has recovered pretty well when it was dump hard, that is compared to other assets but we can't really guarantee that it will stay this way, the pandemic continues hence the crisis is still here, therefore anytime a dump could be possible.

[hahay]

At least every asset will surely experience a period where they will crash, so I think in bitcoin also applies the same and even tends to be more extreme, prices can go down anytime quickly and therefore with unique characteristics I think bitcoin is indeed not a storage of value. Although there is something that can keep its value more stable for some time but the crisis will come and we must be prepared about any crash that will occur.

[wildzeros]

If it survives the current economic climate it will definitely go a long way to re-affirming its use case as a store of value

[jostorres]

Listen to this podcast.
https://unconfirmed.libsyn.com/coronavirus-how-it-will-impact-bitcoin-and-the-halving-ep116
However much you want it to be, BTC is NOT a store of value.  It has been a few years since $20K and even now, each peak is smaller than the previous peak.  Probably be $3K by the end of the week.

I don’t really agree with that. You’re saying this because the price of Bitcoin crashed as of recent. What if the price kept increasing, are you still going to question whether it is a store of value or not? You will be very excited and wouldn’t even ask.

Gold is a store a value, and it’s not just gold but silver and other precious metals as well, but despite that , the price of gold and all these precious metals still crashed to a low price, and some of them have managed to get back up a bit, especially gold and silver. Bitcoin went down and still got back up, it’s a matter of time and it will start going back up again.

[Barcode_]

People does have the freedom and choice to spend their bitcoin to purchase goods and services provided by any companies that are willing to accept bitcoin, but I do understand some investors who purchased bitcoin for investment purpose are holding bitcoin for the long term as they believe the price of bitcoin will increase as time goes by, I guess it is up to every individual to decide whether bitcoin is a store of value.

[Emitdama]

Listen to this podcast.
https://unconfirmed.libsyn.com/coronavirus-how-it-will-impact-bitcoin-and-the-halving-ep116
However much you want it to be, BTC is NOT a store of value.  It has been a few years since $20K and even now, each peak is smaller than the previous peak.  Probably be $3K by the end of the week.

Sometimes the post I see here is very annoying. So, you’re saying that Bitcoin is not a store of value because it hasn’t reached $20,000 again and cause it never continued to go up after reaching that rate? I don’t even know who told you that Bitcoin is a store of value when you know very much that it is a means of payment peer-to-peer and an investment for those that chooses, and you were also told that it is a volatile asset.

So, what makes you think that the price will reach $20,000 and keep going up? Some of you join this community with a greedy mind-set; because you saw the price reach high, you thought it will keep going up and you jumped on the train.

[Negotiation]

If it survives the current economic climate it will definitely go a long way to re-affirming its use case as a store of value

In the current economic climate Bitcoin will be a reserve of enduring value savings Everybody is buying bitcoin now, thinking about the future they will get a lot of profit if the price goes up In that case it is later in storage. But it is difficult to say when it will be determined. We have to wait patiently.

[sunsilk]

We've been telling it that it's a good store of value just like gold but there's an exception in moments like this. All kinds of assets are experiencing downtrend so why you would only choose to say that with bitcoin?

I'll still take bitcoin as my store of value and when the dust settles, you'll see that I've made a great choice of defining it like that. Look to the picture that the FED has already started printing dollars.

[mindrust]

But i believe soon it will be a good store of value when all countries take part in using it as a currency just like what they did when fiat currency was still newly introduced.

Gold did pretty well even though it went down like btc but a lot less.

Countries let people using btc because right now they don't see it as a threat. When btc gets big enough and start to threaten their existence, they'll take action against it instead of promoting it.

In other words, they don't have any problems with btc as long as it stays low profile.

[michellee]

Bitcoin is bitcoin, and for me, bitcoin is a store of value no matter if the price of bitcoin fluctuates, that is a risk that I should pay when I have bitcoin. That risk will be change if bitcoin price increases in the next future but if the price is down, then I will make sure to buy more bitcoin because that means, I have a discount to purchase bitcoin at a low price. I am sure that these situations will not stay forever, and there is a time for bitcoin to back to a higher price. You can say that bitcoin is not a store of value, but you will see it later, and you can change what you say when bitcoin can pass $20k again in the future.

[fullhdpixel]

Gold went down as well, not like gold was standing still, looking at the gold chart right now we can see that the price of gold was around 1704 at around 6th of march and it dropped to 1493 and that was the bottom, now peaked again and its around 1653, it could very well move beyond 1704 once again soon but that doesn't change the fact that gold prices went down A LOT during this period and gold has been a store of value of THOUSANDS of years.

To expect bitcoin, something that has been around for just a decade to not drop while gold drops is unreasonable. Of course bitcoin dropped a lot harsher but it also recovered very well too. Right now year to date price of bitcoin is in profits, and that shows how well of a store of value it is.

[tvplus006]

If it survives the current economic climate it will definitely go a long way to re-affirming its use case as a store of value

In the current economic climate Bitcoin will be a reserve of enduring value savings Everybody is buying bitcoin now, thinking about the future they will get a lot of profit if the price goes up In that case it is later in storage. But it is difficult to say when it will be determined. We have to wait patiently.

Everyone refers to bitcoin differently. One part of people believes that bitcoin can reach a price of 100,000, so they will be using it for the rest of their lives. Traders also treat BTC as a tool for earning dollars, and some of them withdraw this money to Fiat, while others also hold it.

[Yatsan]

If it survives the current economic climate it will definitely go a long way to re-affirming its use case as a store of value

In the current economic climate Bitcoin will be a reserve of enduring value savings Everybody is buying bitcoin now, thinking about the future they will get a lot of profit if the price goes up In that case it is later in storage. But it is difficult to say when it will be determined. We have to wait patiently.

Everyone refers to bitcoin differently. One part of people believes that bitcoin can reach a price of 100,000, so they will be using it for the rest of their lives. Traders also treat BTC as a tool for earning dollars, and some of them withdraw this money to Fiat, while others also hold it.

I believe there are only two form of which bitcoin can be clearly seen, that is currency and investment. Currency would work if people tries to use it as a means of payment for a service or goods that has been done or taken from the other end. Investment on the other hand includes the trading and holding of each and every one that contributes to the price and volatility a lot. We can blame an individual if what of these two is he/she whom think works better with bitcoin, as currency or investment coz it will just only store value either way as bitcoin is an asset.

[thirdprize]

So much for the halving.  Hasn't made the slightest difference.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Nothing is a store of value at the moment.

I would disagree with that assertion, because there are always stores of value--whether they're ideal or not can be debated, but they always exist (as far as I know).  Probably the best way to measure it is by looking at the volatility of any given asset and whether it appreciates in value at a rate that equals or outpaces inflation.

But bitcoin?  Nah, I don't think we're ever going to agree on this one.  True, if you buy it or any other cryptocurrency you're buying something that has value, but we've all seen how crazy the markets can be and how easily that value can be lost.  I tend to think bitcoin is indeed a store of value but not a good one.  If you're looking to protect your wealth as opposed to growing it rapidly, bitcoin is the wrong thing to buy.  

So much for the halving.  Hasn't made the slightest difference.

Heh heh, I agree.  But I think the coronavirus outbreak kind of trumped all of that hype.  Things might have turned out differently had we not had the epidemic.

[thirdprize]

Bitcoin is bitcoin, and for me, bitcoin is a store of value no matter if the price of bitcoin fluctuates, that is a risk that I should pay when I have bitcoin. That risk will be change if bitcoin price increases in the next future but if the price is down, then I will make sure to buy more bitcoin because that means, I have a discount to purchase bitcoin at a low price. I am sure that these situations will not stay forever, and there is a time for bitcoin to back to a higher price. You can say that bitcoin is not a store of value, but you will see it later, and you can change what you say when bitcoin can pass $20k again in the future.

You have just described an investment, not a store of value.

[mindrust]

You have just described an investment, not a store of value.

What is a store of value?

[Findingnemo]

So the author analyzed the price from end of 2017?

Price of bitcoin keep increasing since 2009 and also there are bearish trend as well from time to time,so we can't really say the current peak is lesser than its previous one.

[XZERO1]

Bitcoin may not be a store of value for the present time because the government are still crashing into fiat for basic purposes. But i believe soon it will be a good store of value when all countries take part in using it as a currency just like what they did when fiat currency was still newly introduced.

Exactly, only an asset that is being used all over the world as a currency and is a way of transferring value to each other like in trades and such by a vast majority of people can be considered as something that you can count on it to at least sustain its base value because the demand for it always going to be high, as many others already mentioned even gold had it's downtrends and bear markets so you can only expect real currencies that we all use on daily basis to be a store of value and you can not expect from valuable metals or digital assets to be like that for now.

[seamusdorakos]

as op said - it really fell to the $3k mark in the march, however now its again on the level of february
so it has all chances to keep in this $8-$10k gap

[Alert31]

Bitcoin can't be a store of value because it is volatile . It is just good as investment. Now that there is a pandemic ,i think nothing could be possible as store of value because everything is going down drastically cause by covid pandemic.

[RajaJudi]

Think of this: one day, the scientists found a little meteor that contains a lot of gold, more than the mass of gold on Earth combined. Not only do they know exactly how to harvest it but they also invent a method that allows people all around the world to participate in harvesting the meteor. Now everyone has a lot of gold, gold becomes something usual, its price drops, every grams of gold ever been stored become nothing. It stops being a store of value.
With the example above, we can agree that gold is not permanently valuable. The same logic applies for Bitcoin, its price goes up and down. Maybe someday in the future, everyone gets tired of it and stop using it, would it be a perfect store of value anymore?

[TopExchanger]

It depends on how you would define a good store of value. If it must be stable, Bitcoin isn't the store of value. But despite its high volatility, Bitcoin is deflationary, so it can be a reliable long-term store of value.

[Mauser]

Listen to this podcast.
https://unconfirmed.libsyn.com/coronavirus-how-it-will-impact-bitcoin-and-the-halving-ep116
However much you want it to be, BTC is NOT a store of value.  It has been a few years since $20K and even now, each peak is smaller than the previous peak.  Probably be $3K by the end of the week.

Why so pessimistic about the outlook of bitcoins? Now in July BTC is still above 9,000 USD. I haven't sold any of my coins in a while and not going to do so. Bitcoin is a currency like many others, you can use it as a diversification in your portfolio. And historically speaking it has been a good store of value. Storing your value would mean it rises slighty with inflation and doesn't jump around to $20k. I believe bitcoins will become more and more stable in the future, making it a good instrument to save money. For gambling and high risk investing I would recommend altcoins.

[lixer]

Listen to this podcast.
https://unconfirmed.libsyn.com/coronavirus-how-it-will-impact-bitcoin-and-the-halving-ep116
However much you want it to be, BTC is NOT a store of value.  It has been a few years since $20K and even now, each peak is smaller than the previous peak.  Probably be $3K by the end of the week.

I just don’t understand some people. It’s not a store of value, that’s for you, and not for others. You have clearly said what you want, you just want the price to increase so that you will make huge profit, but you have been disappointed.

This is the same with people that were buying cryptocurrency (bitcoin) at the peak price and pretending they were buying it as a safe haven, while their main motive was to make quick money, because they thought the price will keep going up, but they were all disappointed. If you want to invest in bitcoin as store of value, then do it with plans to hold for a long time, because if you’re planning short time, then it’s probably a waste of time.

[Negotiation]

Yes, Bitcoin is not usually a stable currency so its rise and fall will continue We can make more profit if the price goes up because the price is lower or higher I think bitcoin saves value but it has to be left for long. It is very difficult to say when the price will go up That's why you shouldn't just rely on Bitcoin You can trade Bitcoin in the short term for long term investments as it will save you money and earn you money But Bitcoin will hold for a long time.

[MCobian]

I agree that Bitcoin is not a store of value, maybe Gold is more suitable to be a store of value with a relatively stable price.
But I do not care that Bitcoin is not a store of value, the most important thing for me Bitcoin is still profitable if stored for
a long time. So I will continue to collect Bitcoin, even though the price will continue to fall. Because I'm sure Bitcoin will
definitely reach an all time high price one day, and when that happens I already have a lot of Bitcoin.

[hunter7519]

Absolutely not, because bitcoin has value and users appreciate its utility, all the remainder is speculation.

If Bitcoin ceases to be useful it will not have any value. Store of value in and by itself does not exist, a good needs underlying utility and it stores value well because predictably, it will hold its utility far into the future: I.e. Gold.

Bitcoin will not cease to be a store of value just because it changed its audience. You could argue that as a settlement layer, Bitcoin will cater to less users but higher paying ones.

In the end, this is just a question of philosophical roadmap.

Myself I support BCH because it goes in line with the revolution of the commons I envisioned. Taking back sovereignty. But I do not expect Bitcoin Core to not be able to fulfill its use as store of value, much like gold, under their present roadmap. And if all my fears come to pass, it will actually be worth a lot for the actors I envision entering the scene. That's why my Bitcoins will stay on the main chain, in a non SegWit address and with no Lightning Channels.

But that is a very narrow vision for Bitcoin and a testament to our collective sheepness and feeble minds... we could indeed have had it all. It isn't however, an economic disaster, it could very well make all the holders very happy moneywise. It will essentially be a bribe.

Given the present roadmap, it could at least bring some transparency to the current financial system (half full glass). My main concern is now that they set everything up, they are actually working on anonymity (total empty glass)... this just sounds too fucked up to be true, how we had so little foresight to fight this collectively.

[CarnagexD]

Bitcoin is bitcoin, and for me, bitcoin is a store of value no matter if the price of bitcoin fluctuates, that is a risk that I should pay when I have bitcoin.

Most of us are risking our money just to secure our future with this cryptocurrency that is full of potential to increase its price over time. We have different preferences on what are we going to use as a store of value, and we chose to deal with the risks because we believe that bitcoin can give us huge profit as we continue to hold it.

If you are not a fan and you are not comfortable on making bitcoin as a store of value, then it is your choice.

Bitcoin's volatility is not new and as we are treating it as a store of value for a long time run, we still make transaction in a short-term when its price fluctuates. Proper manipulation and control is what we need and then we will benefit the value of this cryptocurrency in the market.

[Latviand]

Why so pessimistic about the outlook of bitcoins? Now in July BTC is still above 9,000 USD. I haven't sold any of my coins in a while and not going to do so. Bitcoin is a currency like many others, you can use it as a diversification in your portfolio. And historically speaking it has been a good store of value. Storing your value would mean it rises slighty with inflation and doesn't jump around to $20k. I believe bitcoins will become more and more stable in the future, making it a good instrument to save money. For gambling and high risk investing I would recommend altcoins.

Can we just support the bitcoin? Can we just believe on it?

Some people here are very negative towards the bitcoin's future even if the only thing that they consider are its volatility and fluctuation in the market. It is really hard to predict the bitcoins price but if you truly believe on the ability of bitcoin, you will invest to it and treat it as a good store of value. If you want to secure your future, bitcoin can be your way to success on your future errands. If bitcoin reached almost $20k in 2017, imagine if it spike again sooner or later. Don't lose the opportunity for you to make bitcoin as your asset.

[lacir]

You have just described an investment, not a store of value.

What is a store of value?

Anything that retains purchasing power into the future.
Good example are fiat money or precious metal.
The point is risk management and low volatility
connected with asset.

[Text]

A store of value is an asset that maintains its value without depreciating...

So, do you think that is a characteristic of Bitcoin?

Isn't it? Because BTC is volatile, it changes its value in no time.
Maybe later or tomorrow its value or price will be lower compared to today.

I agree BTC is not a store of value.

But, I am one of the investors and HODLers who believe that its price will increase in the future so they prefer to save more.

[Questat]

A store of value is an asset that maintains its value without depreciating...

So, do you think that is a characteristic of Bitcoin?

Isn't it? Because BTC is volatile, it changes its value in no time.

Btc is volatile but it's not depreciating, because when we say it's depreciating it will not be valuable again, that's not the nature of bitcoin, so I don't agree with the way you describe bitcoin.

I agree BTC is not a store of value.

But, I am one of the investors and HODLers who believe that its price will increase in the future so they prefer to save more.

it could be a no or a yes, it doesn't matter, what matters is what we believe as everyone of us who are into crypto and investing in bitcoin might not have the same answer or belief.

[Text]

BTC is volatile but it's not depreciating, because when we say it's depreciating it will not be valuable again, that's not the nature of bitcoin, so I don't agree with the way you describe bitcoin.

it could be a no or a yes, it doesn't matter, what matters is what we believe as everyone of us who are into crypto and investing in bitcoin might not have the same answer or belief.

Thanks for hitting me. I seem to be getting what the store of value really means. It is not true that BTC does not belong as a store of value because it is not depreciated. Is depreciated the amount that is gradually decreasing that can no longer return to the previous price or increase such as computers, vehicles, tools and etc.? So it just depends on a user whether he will consider BTC as a store of value if its price rises or falls.

[RealMalatesta]

Why do we have to agree on something just because you think it is like that? I mean obviously you can think that way but that doesn't mean that others have to think that way neither. Bitcoin is a store of value to me, that is my decision and that is my idea, I am not saying you should see it store of value as well, I do not care what others think about bitcoin, you can think of it however you want, I am not going to try and change that.

But, I will also not allow others to change my perspective on bitcoin neither. Right now we are living in a bitcoin world where we are trying to remove ourselves from the governments grasps, why? Because financially and socially and basically in all aspects of life government makes decisions for us, with bitcoin we take that power back, and I will not do that just so I can give it to some other guy.

[FlightyPouch]

BTC is volatile but it's not depreciating, because when we say it's depreciating it will not be valuable again, that's not the nature of bitcoin, so I don't agree with the way you describe bitcoin.

it could be a no or a yes, it doesn't matter, what matters is what we believe as everyone of us who are into crypto and investing in bitcoin might not have the same answer or belief.

Thanks for hitting me. I seem to be getting what the store of value really means. It is not true that BTC does not belong as a store of value because it is not depreciated. Is depreciated the amount that is gradually decreasing that can no longer return to the previous price or increase such as computers, vehicles, tools and etc.? So it just depends on a user whether he will consider BTC as a store of value if its price rises or falls.

I agree on that. I guess it is really on the person whether bitcoin is a store of value or not. For me, it is not a store of a value, but for other it is. I guess the reason is that while time passes, we are seeing higher value of it and it also increases further. But bitcoin also falls sometimes and we do not know when it will happen because of its volatility.

I also agree that even though I beleieve that it is not a store of value, I will keep on holding it since I think it will give more profits in the near future.

[Nhor1011]

Listen to this podcast.
https://unconfirmed.libsyn.com/coronavirus-how-it-will-impact-bitcoin-and-the-halving-ep116
However much you want it to be, BTC is NOT a store of value.  It has been a few years since $20K and even now, each peak is smaller than the previous peak.  Probably be $3K by the end of the week.

For me Bitcoin is not a store of value but is it an investment because it was volatile.Although this time of pandemic all are affected and i can say that there is no store of value at this moment. Anyway ,maybe on other people it could be a store of value because we have different perspective about it and i think there is no problem if other people treat it as store of value and others are not.

[carlisle1]

Listen to this podcast.
https://unconfirmed.libsyn.com/coronavirus-how-it-will-impact-bitcoin-and-the-halving-ep116
However much you want it to be, BTC is NOT a store of value.  It has been a few years since $20K and even now, each peak is smaller than the previous peak.  Probably be $3K by the end of the week.

You just made this thread because of conona virus effect and now you wanted us to believe that it would fall to 3k?
But sorry it didn't happen because recovery follows right away and the price comes back to 9-10k again.

Bitcoin can't be a store of value because it is volatile . It is just good as investment. Now that there is a pandemic ,i think nothing could be possible as store of value because everything is going down drastically cause by covid pandemic.

lol we had already passed that point,Covid now seems nothing to effect the market look around,check the prices.

[Questat]

BTC is volatile but it's not depreciating, because when we say it's depreciating it will not be valuable again, that's not the nature of bitcoin, so I don't agree with the way you describe bitcoin.

it could be a no or a yes, it doesn't matter, what matters is what we believe as everyone of us who are into crypto and investing in bitcoin might not have the same answer or belief.

Thanks for hitting me. I seem to be getting what the store of value really means. It is not true that BTC does not belong as a store of value because it is not depreciated. Is depreciated the amount that is gradually decreasing that can no longer return to the previous price or increase such as computers, vehicles, tools and etc.? So it just depends on a user whether he will consider BTC as a store of value if its price rises or falls.

That's correct, you got it right now, they depreciate due to the wear and tear resulting to long time usage, bitcoin though considers by some as properly, it's not a physical proper that depreciates, in fact its value is appreciate if you look at the general point of view, its just that it's volatile so some would easily judge that this coin is depreciating because they are not looking at its value from the start.

When we say vehicle depreciation, you purchase it at $10,000, in 10 years,  its market value could drop to $5,000 or even lower.

[kolbalish]

Nothing in the world is reliable, just as BTC is not reliable.
It can't be called a store of value because it rotates. It's value sometimes upswings and sometimes lowerings. It can't be said that the BTC store could be very worthwhile in the future. Because it is skeptical.

[Harriti]

Listen to this podcast.
https://unconfirmed.libsyn.com/coronavirus-how-it-will-impact-bitcoin-and-the-halving-ep116
However much you want it to be, BTC is NOT a store of value.  It has been a few years since $20K and even now, each peak is smaller than the previous peak.  Probably be $3K by the end of the week.

$ 3k is unlikely to happen this year. Bitcoin is still on the rise because the halving has taken place and maybe in the coming days it will pump. The level of pump will still depend on the general economy, if the disease is still raging in many large countries, then it is likely that bitcoin will only fluctuate around $ 8k - $ 10k this year. I don't think it will plummet once more.

[BITCOIN4X]

Nothing in the world is reliable, just as BTC is not reliable.

But at least now we can still rely on bitcoin as a cryptocurrency that has many benefit.

It can't be called a store of value because it rotates.

Bitcoin or other cryptocurrency of course can never be used as a safe place to store value. Change in price at any time will never be suitable for those who do not want to take a big risk on the value of money. It is also not recommended to use bitcoin as a value storage asset and if someone does, the risk must be accepted.

[Emitdama]

Nothing in the world is reliable, just as BTC is not reliable.
It can't be called a store of value because it rotates. It's value sometimes upswings and sometimes lowerings. It can't be said that the BTC store could be very worthwhile in the future. Because it is skeptical.

People can think whatever they want but I will still use it as a currency and not any value. People think that they could put in 10 thousand dollars into bitcoin and get roughly 1 bitcoin and change, they could keep it there, if inflation happens their bitcoin will go up and in theory they will not lose any money, sure they are "earning" some but at the same time life gets more expensive so they are keeping their "value" which is the idea of store of value.

I do not see bitcoin like that, I see it as a thing that you can spend and earn, just like dollars, just like euros, I see bitcoin as a currency. I will work, earn some, I will then go out and spend it, that is what bitcoin is for me. So to speak, I agree that it is not a store of value, not because it can't be but because I do not use it that way at all.

[Metazen]

Maybe it's too simple of an answer, but it just continues to be too unstable. Therefore that you can say Btc is not store of value.
But today, most major global currencies are fiat and many governments and societies have found that fiat currency is the most durable and least likely to be susceptible to deterioration or loss of value over time
Currency is usable if it is a store of value, or, put differently, if it can reliably be counted on to maintain its relative value over time and without depreciating.

[Janation]

Nothing in the world is reliable, just as BTC is not reliable.

But at least now we can still rely on bitcoin as a cryptocurrency that has many benefit.

Living in a country that can't really use Bitcoin, still, I can agree with this.

The benefit we get from Bitcoin is that we can have some profit in a long period of time, we can use to pay bills thruogh exchanges taking advantage of its fast and free transactions and very convinient. I know that we can't still directly use Bitcoin but usually it is a speculative asset and not a store of value.

[Questat]

Nothing in the world is reliable, just as BTC is not reliable.

But at least now we can still rely on bitcoin as a cryptocurrency that has many benefit.

Living in a country that can't really use Bitcoin, still, I can agree with this.

The benefit we get from Bitcoin is that we can have some profit in a long period of time, we can use to pay bills thruogh exchanges taking advantage of its fast and free transactions and very convinient. I know that we can't still directly use Bitcoin but usually it is a speculative asset and not a store of value.

Even if you can't sell it in your country for the moment, you can sell that in other country through p2p trading, selling bitcoin is not really hard since we don't need a 3rd party to process our transaction, that's the beauty of decentralized network. We can use it both as payment system and investment.

[Scotslass]

Listen to this podcast.
https://unconfirmed.libsyn.com/coronavirus-how-it-will-impact-bitcoin-and-the-halving-ep116
However much you want it to be, BTC is NOT a store of value.  It has been a few years since $20K and even now, each peak is smaller than the previous peak.  Probably be $3K by the end of the week.

Unfortunately, bitcoin at the moment is nothing but a store of value.
You can buy something with it and it is adopted by some businesses, but we all understand that apart from lightning network it is a high fee slow transaction coin.
There are many others more usable coins and tokens out there that deserve attention

[bits4books]

BTC is a savings tool for those who a) have extra money b) who believe in "to the moon"
For others (for me at least) it is the same means of speculation and trading for almost instant winnings. I have not looked at btc as a gold token for a long time - and I am not sure that we will see such heights again...

[Majharul Saiif]

I pledge once because of its traits. And then I don't pledge again because it's not a reprieve.

[LogitechMouse]

Nothing in the world is reliable, just as BTC is not reliable.

But at least now we can still rely on bitcoin as a cryptocurrency that has many benefit.

Crypto has many benefits from the start already. Its just that many users and investors are not seeing the true benefit and the true reason why Bitcoin has been made in the first place.

I agree that Bitcoin isn't reliable and nothing is reliable. Bitcoin has many benefits in my part. From paying bills to buy some stuffs online. Although I'm not using Bitcoin directly since there are no merchants here that are accepting it but the fact that it came from BTC and just converted is a proof that it has a benefit for us users of it .