Do you believe the 2020 US democratic primary is being rigged?

[KonstantinosM]

I don't believe the results I'm seeing are accurate. Iowa had discrepancies. Texas seemed to have suppressed the vote and there where rumors of ballots being lost. There are posts showing exit polls differing from results massively and almost universally for Biden.

I still haven't seen a single person with a Biden sticker or a Biden T-shirt or a Biden yard sign. I am aware that older people and people who are not following politics closely support Biden by default.

That default Biden support + the media narrative is a valid explanation why Biden is winning. The media condemns talk of rigged elections with a number of talking points but they all ring hollow to me.

Here's a source for the uncounted votes in Dallas:

Title: Judge Orders Recount of Dallas County Ballots Found to Have Discrepancies
https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/politics/hearing-underway-for-request-to-recount-dallas-county-election-ballots/2327637/
Archived Version: https://web.archive.org/web/20200314141242/https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/politics/hearing-underway-for-request-to-recount-dallas-county-election-ballots/2327637/

I'm too burned out to look for evidence that the primaries were rigged and I'm not an expert. But my gut feeling is that it is.

I tried looking for a good source for exit polls but I couldn't find it. I don't trust most of the major media as it's funded by the same people who back Biden. Now it seems that Google and YouTube are suppressing views not endorsed by the Mainstream media who are run by and for the benefit of the billionaires.

Anyone caught rigging the elections needs to be punished and branded for life and lose the right to vote in any and all subsequent elections until the end of time. That seems like a fair punishment.

You try to take other people's votes, you get your own taken away as part of the punishment package.

Edit: Something else that's suspicious

Title:WATCH: Station Airs Biden-Sanders Results Graphic Day Before Election
https://heavy.com/news/2020/03/biden-bernie-primary-results-aired-early-video/?fbclid=IwAR3bMHHnhPZr_6hD5Pm03W5_F4wMhh3Zw7vCD5zHzXKloaaEqlNEQFapuvY

Archived: https://web.archive.org/web/20200318032229/https://heavy.com/news/2020/03/biden-bernie-primary-results-aired-early-video/?fbclid=IwAR3bMHHnhPZr_6hD5Pm03W5_F4wMhh3Zw7vCD5zHzXKloaaEqlNEQFapuvY/

[squatz1]

No I don't think so, i think that this was the democratic process at work. If you want to argue about a state being open or closed primary system or something like that, I'd be able to entertain it. But I don't think these discrepencies changed the vote in anyway and I think we're fine when it comes to peoples votes actually counting.

If you want to say that the three moderates backing Biden at the same time and dropping out at perfect time before Super Tuesday is rigged? Then I'd have to disagree with you (not saying you as OP, just in general) because while that may not be ethical in your mind -- the voters did still decide that they would be going from one moderate (Klobuchar, Pete) to Biden. So I think that's just the democratic process at work here.

I don't think so.

[KonstantinosM]

No I don't think so, i think that this was the democratic process at work. If you want to argue about a state being open or closed primary system or something like that, I'd be able to entertain it. But I don't think these discrepencies changed the vote in anyway and I think we're fine when it comes to peoples votes actually counting.

If you want to say that the three moderates backing Biden at the same time and dropping out at perfect time before Super Tuesday is rigged? Then I'd have to disagree with you (not saying you as OP, just in general) because while that may not be ethical in your mind -- the voters did still decide that they would be going from one moderate (Klobuchar, Pete) to Biden. So I think that's just the democratic process at work here.

I don't think so.

I think that there was fraud. In Iowa where the voting process was observable by the public I think the case is really easy to make. The officials vote count was wrong, they knew it was wrong and yet they made a weak legal defense to keep the wrong numbers which were against Bernie.

To be clear, I don't think Pete, Bloomberg and Klobuchar dropping out and endorsing Biden is rigging people are free to support whoever they want.


Past Iowa, the use of voting machines, voter suppression via closing polling places in minority areas and having in one case 1 polling place for 40,000 students (https://www.democracynow.org/2020/3/5/air_berman_voting_delays_super_tuesday) these things don't happen by themselves.

I think that we should all demand, no matter our politics that our elections are observable by the public and leave a paper trail, like other countries. Voting machines should be banned and votes should be counted publicly. The process has to be protected.

[Spendulus]

...
I think that we should all demand, no matter our politics that our elections are observable by the public and leave a paper trail, like other countries. Voting machines should be banned and votes should be counted publicly. The process has to be protected.

I agree. Last time I voted, there was a paper ballot that you inserted into a machine. Then you would check the boxes with a pen. Then it somehow generated a square code with your checkboxes and printed it on the ballot.

So this is a hybrid - a paper ballot that absolutely could be manually tabulated, but which also could be machine read.

Clever!

[suchmoon]

Yes, it's rigged by the same people who rigged it in 2016 - lazy millennials/X/Y/Z/whatever-the-fuck-comes-after-Z who support Bernie when polled but can't get off their asses to actually vote. There is lots of evidence of that (exit polls, turnout numbers) and zero evidence of actual voting fraud/manipulation. Voter suppression is a meaningless argument in a primary, particularly when the winning candidate has a significant minority support. Also there's absentee/mail-in voting.

The worst thing you can do now is to come up with conspiracy theories to justify it. Then don't show up in November and complain about Trump for the next 4 years.

[KonstantinosM]

Yes, it's rigged by the same people who rigged it in 2016 - lazy millennials/X/Y/Z/whatever-the-fuck-comes-after-Z who support Bernie when polled but can't get off their asses to actually vote. There is lots of evidence of that (exit polls, turnout numbers) and zero evidence of actual voting fraud/manipulation. Voter suppression is a meaningless argument in a primary, particularly when the winning candidate has a significant minority support. Also there's absentee/mail-in voting.

The worst thing you can do now is to come up with conspiracy theories to justify it. Then don't show up in November and complain about Trump for the next 4 years.

There is more than zero evidence as a matter of fact.

Popular Mechanics had an article looking over a small fraction of the numbers in Iowa: (https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/math/a30810883/iowa-caucuses-math-errors/)

The full picture painted by the data is 101 votes for Sanders, 66 for Buttigieg, and 48 for Biden, plus 25 uncommitted voters, for a total of 240. Delegates were officially distributed 4-4-2 for Sanders-Buttigieg-Biden. But that should have been 5-3-2.

Why? Because after the first calculation step, Sanders had 4.21, Buttigieg had 2.75, and Biden had 2.0. These round to 4, 3, and 2, respectively, which add up to 9. The precinct had 10 delegates to give out, so it needed to give the final delegate to the candidate closest to their next delegate.

That's only a small part of the picture, but "mistake" after "mistake" it always went against Bernie.


Here's an excerpt from an article from the Guardian Titled: California's rules for independent party voters could suppress the Bernie vote

These 5 million independents legally have the right to vote in the Democratic primary, but the Democratic party has created an inscrutable obstacle course for them to do so, one that amounts to another type of voter suppression.


The problem begins with a postcard.

Last autumn, all 5 million NPP voters were mailed a postcard allowing them to request a ballot with the Democratic party presidential choices. However, as many states have learned, postcards with voter information largely look like junk mail and get thrown out.

If the independents don’t respond to the postcards, they get a ballot without presidential choices. But they have one more chance to vote for a candidate in the primaries: at the ballot box.

So, if a young person in California ends up having the choice to either wait 5 hours in line and vote, or piss off their boss and get their hours cut, I wouldn't blame them for not voting.


About the exit polls I'm going to use some numbers from TDMS research, who cite their numbers.

Texas primary:

In this election candidate Sanders saw the largest discrepancy between the exit poll and computer vote counts. His projected vote proportion fell 4% in the vote counts—an 12% reduction of his exit poll share. The combined discrepancies between the exit poll and the vote count for candidates Sanders and Biden at 4.4% significantly exceeded the 2.9% margin of error for the exit poll difference between the two.

Michigan

  The large discrepancies greatly exceeded the margin of error for the exit poll projected differences between candidates. In this election candidate Sanders underperformed his exit poll projected proportions by 15.4%. Sanders consequently received 105,000 less votes than projected while others (mainly Biden and Bloomberg) received 111,000 more than projected by the exit poll. Of concern is Michigan’s destruction of the ballot images, that could have been used to greatly facilitate a recount, that were created by their scanners for their counts. This destruction appears to violate both federal and state laws.

California

The combined discrepancies between the exit poll and the vote count for candidates Sanders and Biden currently totals 7.7%; more than double the 3.1% margin of error for the exit poll difference between the two.

Vermont

In this Vermont election candidate Sanders saw the largest discrepancy between the exit poll and computer vote counts. His projected vote proportion fell 6.3% in the vote counts—an 11% reduction of his exit poll share. Biden with an exit poll share of 17% and in danger of receiving 0 delegates (if his vote count fell below 15%) outperformed his exit poll share by 4.5% in the vote counts—a 26.1% increase of his exit poll share. The combined discrepancies between the exit poll and the vote count for candidates Sanders and Biden at 10.8% was double the 5.4% margin of error (95% CI) for the exit poll difference between the two. See table below.

Massachusetts

The discrepancies between the exit poll and the vote count for Sanders and Biden totaled 8.4%— double the 4.0% margin of error (95% CI) for their exit poll differences. Warren’s and Biden’s discrepancies also totaled 8.4%, again double the margin of error (95% CI) for their exit poll differences. . These discrepancies replicate the total discrepancy of 8.0% favoring Clinton in the 2016 Massachusetts Democratic Party primary between her and Sanders. This time two progressive candidates exhibit the same discrepancies now favoring Biden representing the establishment’s choice.

South Carolina

Of all presidential candidates, Biden’s vote count exhibited the largest disparity from his exit poll projection. His unverified computer-generated vote totals represented a 8.3% increase of his projected exit poll share. Given the 528,776 voters in this election, he gained approximately 19,700 more votes than projected by the exit poll. This gain came at the expense of other candidates—mainly candidates Sanders, Warren, and Steyer. Exit polls are widely recognized—such as by, for example, the United States Agency for International Development  (USAID)—as a means for checking the validity of unobservable computerized vote counts.

New Hampshire

The recent New Hampshire Democratic Party Primary computerized vote count results differ significantly from the results projected by the exit poll conducted by Edison Research and published by CNN at poll’s closing. The disparities exceed the exit poll’s margin of error. Of all presidential candidates Buttigieg’s vote count exhibited the largest disparity from his exit poll projection. His unverified computer-generated vote totals represented a 12% increase of his projected exit poll share.

Fittingly, according to a recent Gallup World Poll, only 40% of Americans say they are confident in the honesty of U.S. elections. Finland and Norway with 89% of their citizens expressing confidence in the honesty of their elections along with the citizens of 25 other countries have greater confidence in their elections than do Americans.

[suchmoon]

About the exit polls I'm going to use some numbers from TDMS research, who cite their numbers.

Oh come on...

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/no-huge-red-flag-that-fraud-occurred-in-mass-primary/

[...]it used exit poll numbers from 8 p.m. on the day of the primary, according to the table. Those numbers were updated two hours later, though, according to CNN, the outlet cited in the table.

[Gyfts]

The only "rigged" part is the entire democratic party backing Joe Biden prior to Super Tuesday. It's not a coincidence that Amy Klobuchar and Pete Buttigieg dropped out of the race to endorse Biden followed by a Beto endorsement on the same day. The establishment democrats absolutely colluded to derail Bernie's campaign and it's blatantly obvious. You combine this with the fact that Warren purposefully stayed in the race despite having a zero chance of winning on Super Tuesday then proceeding to drop out 2 days later without endorsing Bernie.

You tell me, is that rigging the primaries or not? To me, that sure as hell is and I sincerely hope Trump wins in November to make the democratic party regret following the same path they did in 2016.

[KonstantinosM]

The only "rigged" part is the entire democratic party backing Joe Biden prior to Super Tuesday. It's not a coincidence that Amy Klobuchar and Pete Buttigieg dropped out of the race to endorse Biden followed by a Beto endorsement on the same day. The establishment democrats absolutely colluded to derail Bernie's campaign and it's blatantly obvious. You combine this with the fact that Warren purposefully stayed in the race despite having a zero chance of winning on Super Tuesday then proceeding to drop out 2 days later without endorsing Bernie.

You tell me, is that rigging the primaries or not? To me, that sure as hell is and I sincerely hope Trump wins in November to make the democratic party regret following the same path they did in 2016.

Pete and Klobuchar are free to act as they want. And Warren is free to backstab Bernie as she pleases.

The only endorsement that "stinks" of manipulation is Yang's.

It's possible that the DNC threatened to blacklist Yang unless he endorsed Biden. Basically what they did to Tulsi Gabbard during the last primary.

It's not a coincidence that she's getting smeared by the media. It's not a coincidence that Hillary got out of her cave to call her a Russian asset.

Here's the e-mail that Tulsi got for supporting Bernie back during the last cycle

FW: Disappointed


From:mkives@caa.com
To: ha16@hillaryclinton.com, john.podesta@gmail.com
CC: darnell.strom@caa.com
Date: 2016-02-29 21:31
Subject: FW: Disappointed






Hammed dropped!

From: Darnell Strom
Sent: Monday, February 29, 2016 3:13 PM
To: Tulsi Gabbard (tulsi.gabbard@gmail.com<mailto:tulsi.gabbard@gmail.com>)
Cc: Michael Kives
Subject: Disappointed

Representative Gabbard,

We were very disappointed to hear that you would resign your position with the DNC so you could endorse Bernie Sanders, a man who has never been a Democrat before. When we met over dinner a couple of years ago I was so impressed by your intellect, your passion, and commitment to getting things done on behalf of the American people. For you to endorse a man who has spent almost 40 years in public office with very few accomplishments, doesn't fall in line with what we previously thought of you. Hillary Clinton will be our party's nominee and you standing on ceremony to support the sinking Bernie Sanders ship is disrespectful to Hillary Clinton. A woman who has spent the vast majority of her life in public service and working on behalf of women, families, and the underserved.

You have called both myself and Michael Kives before about helping your campaign raise money, we no longer trust your judgement so will not be raising money for your campaign.

Darnell Strom & Michael Kives

This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited.

Yang probably got the same treatment. Considering he clearly wants to side with Bernie.

(Here's a video about the Yang situation)
Title: Why Did Andrew Yang REALLY Endorse Biden?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOSbLj8JZqQ

I hate the DNC/Media establishment.

[Viper1]

I don't believe the results I'm seeing are accurate.

Don't tell me, you're a Bernie supporter and so you're looking for excuses instead of facing facts. The majority of people don't want some "revolution". They want stability and for their government to fix what exists for the most part. But hey. If you can't face reality then go ahead and live in some conspiracy bubble. You can find "proof" for any conspiracy out there if you really want to in order to support your bias. Doesn't make it true in the least.

[KonstantinosM]

I don't believe the results I'm seeing are accurate.

Don't tell me, you're a Bernie supporter and so you're looking for excuses instead of facing facts. The majority of people don't want some "revolution". They want stability and for their government to fix what exists for the most part. But hey. If you can't face reality then go ahead and live in some conspiracy bubble. You can find "proof" for any conspiracy out there if you really want to in order to support your bias. Doesn't make it true in the least.

Well, if you can't see at least some level of shitfuckery in this situation, you're the one not facing reality. I'm not a 9/11 truther, nor do I believe the moon landing was faked, nor that the level of mercury in vaccines is harmful. I'm not one of those people trapped in believing every single conspiracy theory there is out there to believe.

I think the Iowa caucus was certifiably meddled with. It was observable by the public, so to appropriately quote X-files, the truth is out there.

I'm not saying that it's all a charade, and that voting doesn't matter. But if you can through whatever manipulation, change outcomes to make it harder for a candidate to win, that's wrong.

Perhaps if we change the voting system to preferential voting, we'd break the two party system, and all those electability arguments and the DNC's stranglehold over the progressives would ease a little bit.

[BADecker]

The rigging is in the whole political situation. After all, the Bush's were Republicans who got elected. But the Democrats never brought up the fact that Grandfather Bush supported Hitler in WW2 in a big way. So people elected the Bush's not realizing they were kids of a traitor.

So you can see the rigging. If the Dems were for real, they would bring the truth (like the facts regarding Prescott Bush that they kept hidden) into the public.

The Democrat Party is simply, covertly, an arm of the Republican party.

[philipma1957]

The rigging is in the whole political situation. After all, the Bush's were Republicans who got elected. But the Democrats never brought up the fact that Grandfather Bush supported Hitler in WW2 in a big way. So people elected the Bush's not realizing they were kids of a traitor.

So you can see the rigging. If the Dems were for real, they would bring the truth (like the facts regarding Prescott Bush that they kept hidden) into the public.

The Democrat Party is simply, covertly, an arm of the Republican party.

damn that is some real insight. nice.

much as the who once sang.  “ meet the new boss same as the old boss”

[BADecker]

The rigging is in the whole political situation. After all, the Bush's were Republicans who got elected. But the Democrats never brought up the fact that Grandfather Bush supported Hitler in WW2 in a big way. So people elected the Bush's not realizing they were kids of a traitor.

So you can see the rigging. If the Dems were for real, they would bring the truth (like the facts regarding Prescott Bush that they kept hidden) into the public.

The Democrat Party is simply, covertly, an arm of the Republican party.

damn that is some real insight. nice.

much as the who once sang.  “ meet the new boss same as the old boss”

To see that this is true - or at least that the Parties are not what they claim - is to do some serious checking on the platforms of both parties over the years. They BOTH constantly swap positions and ideals back and forth.

For simple example, over the last 15 years, look at what Trump and Obama both said about people coming up over the border from Mexico. They have jumped back and forth with their ideas... sometimes freedom for illegals, and sometimes persecution/prosecution for illegals.

It's been this way with all kinds of things right back to the 1950s.

I think that the people are being played.

[squatz1]

Yes, it's rigged by the same people who rigged it in 2016 - lazy millennials/X/Y/Z/whatever-the-fuck-comes-after-Z who support Bernie when polled but can't get off their asses to actually vote. There is lots of evidence of that (exit polls, turnout numbers) and zero evidence of actual voting fraud/manipulation. Voter suppression is a meaningless argument in a primary, particularly when the winning candidate has a significant minority support. Also there's absentee/mail-in voting.

The worst thing you can do now is to come up with conspiracy theories to justify it. Then don't show up in November and complain about Trump for the next 4 years.

+1 to this entire thing.

In 2016 there was actually issues though, as the DNC had been setting up join fundraising accounts with Clinton while Bernie was still in the race. This obviously is going against ethics of any regular person, which we understand. -- Here is a good article on the matter (https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/02/clinton-brazile-hacks-2016-215774)

But at the end of the day, even if the DNC was in financial cahoots with the Clinton Campaign, Bernie voters could've changed that with going out and voting for him in large numbers.

Young people just don't go out and vote. That's how we can sum this entire thing up. Young people are going to complain and complain about the candidate that is chosen, but they could've changed it if they fucking vote.

[KonstantinosM]

About the exit polls I'm going to use some numbers from TDMS research, who cite their numbers.

Oh come on...

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/no-huge-red-flag-that-fraud-occurred-in-mass-primary/

[...]it used exit poll numbers from 8 p.m. on the day of the primary, according to the table. Those numbers were updated two hours later, though, according to CNN, the outlet cited in the table.

The exit polls where more accurate before they were adjusted to match machine counts.

The machine counts are not public, they do not leave behind a paper trail. They are untrustworthy.


 

Yes, it's rigged by the same people who rigged it in 2016 - lazy millennials/X/Y/Z/whatever-the-fuck-comes-after-Z who support Bernie when polled but can't get off their asses to actually vote. There is lots of evidence of that (exit polls, turnout numbers) and zero evidence of actual voting fraud/manipulation. Voter suppression is a meaningless argument in a primary, particularly when the winning candidate has a significant minority support. Also there's absentee/mail-in voting.

The worst thing you can do now is to come up with conspiracy theories to justify it. Then don't show up in November and complain about Trump for the next 4 years.

I proudly didn't vote for Hillary in 2016 and I will proudly not vote for Biden if he becomes the nominee in 2020.

You can't blame progressives for not being excited about voting for another polished turd. And you especially can't blame young people. They are a small part of eligible voters and they historically vote in lower numbers.

Despite being maligned here they somehow are voting for a candidate that has a good track record and good policies, while the non-lazy superior great previous generations are voting for a big sack of shit.

The young people were on Bernie's side. Turnout wasn't massive but the numbers, even if you take it from CNN are decidedly on Bernie's side. Something like 60-70% Bernie and only single digits for Biden.

Voter suppression is a meaningless argument in a primary, particularly when the winning candidate has a significant minority support. Also there's absentee/mail-in voting.

No it's not, especially when the voter suppression happens in minority areas which in turn decreases the apparent minority support. Also it decreases the apparent youth vote turnout. Especially when you have one polling place for 40,000 people where most those people are going to be students.

Can you blame people for leaving when it takes 5 hours and they are going to be late for work putting their income in jeopardy?

Also absentee voting doesn't happen in every state. Also people should not be denied the vote because they didn't plan things in advance. Also certain people were through manipulation denied the opportunity to even have Bernie as an option in mail-in ballots.


I knew it from the start that Bernie would have to Over-win to win this contest. I knew it last time too and it's just not right.

Voter suppression is secondary, election rigging is the primary thing here. There is evidence, and only a small part of it has been exposed. It's like an Iceberg, and unless someone out there exposes it we'll never see it.

Edit: Relevant Case:

Title: Bernie Is Being Cheated Again. Will He Fight? w/Tim Canova
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nI--5Y-Sst0

[suchmoon]

The exit polls where more accurate before they were adjusted to match machine counts.

You really need to learn how exit polls work and what they can or cannot do. Exit polls are weighed throughout the day based on things like expected tunout and demographics, and get skewed by e.g. young people being more likely to fill those polls out (which are completely voluntary and self-guided). Cherry picking exit polls to fit the narrative is asinine. Exit polls can't be used to verify election results but they can be used to gauge demographics, which clearly shows that younglings don't vote, not matter how you slice it.

I proudly didn't vote for Hillary in 2016 and I will proudly not vote for Biden if he becomes the nominee in 2020.

I guess I should thank you for electing Trump again but I stand to lose a 0.1 BTC bet so I won't.

You can't blame progressives for not being excited about voting for another polished turd. And you especially can't blame young people. They are a small part of eligible voters and they historically vote in lower numbers.

Despite being maligned here they somehow are voting for a candidate that has a good track record and good policies, while the non-lazy superior great previous generations are voting for a big sack of shit.

The young people were on Bernie's side. Turnout wasn't massive but the numbers, even if you take it from CNN are decidedly on Bernie's side. Something like 60-70% Bernie and only single digits for Biden.

That's all great but if they don't do what they need to do to get Bernie elected (i.e. don't vote in the primaries) then all that posturing is meaningless. I get that young people are so much smarter than the old farts etc so hopefully they will eventually figure out that twitgramming doesn't elect candidates, voting does.

Voter suppression is a meaningless argument in a primary, particularly when the winning candidate has a significant minority support. Also there's absentee/mail-in voting.

No it's not, especially when the voter suppression happens in minority areas which in turn decreases the apparent minority support. Also it decreases the apparent youth vote turnout. Especially when you have one polling place for 40,000 people where most those people are going to be students.

Can you blame people for leaving when it takes 5 hours and they are going to be late for work putting their income in jeopardy?

Also absentee voting doesn't happen in every state. Also people should not be denied the vote because they didn't plan things in advance. Also certain people were through manipulation denied the opportunity to even have Bernie as an option in mail-in ballots.

As I said, all sorts of excuses. Late for work LOL. These are the people who don't hesitate to line up at Target during a pandemic to buy the latest Nintendo game. Now that they will have lost their jobs perhaps there will be no excuses for the remaining primaries?

[squatz1]

The exit polls where more accurate before they were adjusted to match machine counts.

You really need to learn how exit polls work and what they can or cannot do. Exit polls are weighed throughout the day based on things like expected tunout and demographics, and get skewed by e.g. young people being more likely to fill those polls out (which are completely voluntary and self-guided). Cherry picking exit polls to fit the narrative is asinine. Exit polls can't be used to verify election results but they can be used to gauge demographics, which clearly shows that younglings don't vote, not matter how you slice it.

I proudly didn't vote for Hillary in 2016 and I will proudly not vote for Biden if he becomes the nominee in 2020.

I guess I should thank you for electing Trump again but I stand to lose a 0.1 BTC bet so I won't.

You can't blame progressives for not being excited about voting for another polished turd. And you especially can't blame young people. They are a small part of eligible voters and they historically vote in lower numbers.

Despite being maligned here they somehow are voting for a candidate that has a good track record and good policies, while the non-lazy superior great previous generations are voting for a big sack of shit.

The young people were on Bernie's side. Turnout wasn't massive but the numbers, even if you take it from CNN are decidedly on Bernie's side. Something like 60-70% Bernie and only single digits for Biden.

That's all great but if they don't do what they need to do to get Bernie elected (i.e. don't vote in the primaries) then all that posturing is meaningless. I get that young people are so much smarter than the old farts etc so hopefully they will eventually figure out that twitgramming doesn't elect candidates, voting does.

Voter suppression is a meaningless argument in a primary, particularly when the winning candidate has a significant minority support. Also there's absentee/mail-in voting.

No it's not, especially when the voter suppression happens in minority areas which in turn decreases the apparent minority support. Also it decreases the apparent youth vote turnout. Especially when you have one polling place for 40,000 people where most those people are going to be students.

Can you blame people for leaving when it takes 5 hours and they are going to be late for work putting their income in jeopardy?

Also absentee voting doesn't happen in every state. Also people should not be denied the vote because they didn't plan things in advance. Also certain people were through manipulation denied the opportunity to even have Bernie as an option in mail-in ballots.

As I said, all sorts of excuses. Late for work LOL. These are the people who don't hesitate to line up at Target during a pandemic to buy the latest Nintendo game. Now that they will have lost their jobs perhaps there will be no excuses for the remaining primaries?

Last people to actually go out and vote (meaning that most times, they wont) and first people to complain about the results of the election. They blame the old farts for elections the 'wrong people' but by not voting they've voted for the status quo, which is the old farts. I'll never understand it. Voting isn't that hard these days, most states you can mail in and these voting areas are open VERY VERY long.

Take some time out of your day, maybe an hour or two, and go and vote. There's no reason that you can justify not doing so. Don't all the Bernie Bros talk about how Bernie won as a Mayoral candidate by 10 votes? -- Well these young kids can be those 10 votes now.

[KonstantinosM]

That's all great but if they don't do what they need to do to get Bernie elected (i.e. don't vote in the primaries) then all that posturing is meaningless. I get that young people are so much smarter than the old farts etc so hopefully they will eventually figure out that twitgramming doesn't elect candidates, voting does.

I'm no longer part of either the 18-24 or 18-25 demographic. But I have coworkers and friends who are younger. A lot are just not interested in politics. A few are pro-Trump but can be swayed.

The turnout of young people is always low, previous generations at the same age, voted in similarly low numbers. Gen X turnout was slightly lower (at the same ages) and Baby Boomers (I think birth years 1946-64) voted at slightly higher numbers.

Your joke here is great and there's a truth to it. You could have a million people sign up for a protest online and only a dozen people show up, things like that have happened before. I guess a lot of young people think that, like watching and liking a YouTube video or sharing a post or tweeting a twit will magically get votes for their candidate. There were however, lots of young people who went out into early states in the primaries and knocked on millions of doors.

As for not showing late to work in order to vote, I can admit that it's kind of a weak argument. But let's imagine a scenario here. You're a 23 year old working as a nurse. You go to vote and after waiting for 4 hours the time of your next shift is up. If you don't show up, not only are you making work harder for your co-workers but you're also risking your career and putting your income at risk. Another hour passes, now you're definitely are going to show up a few minutes late. You panic, you leave and you go to work.

Last people to actually go out and vote (meaning that most times, they wont) and first people to complain about the results of the election.

I'll reiterate that young people have always voted in smaller numbers, and they only make up a small fraction of the electorate.
Also those who don't vote, have the most right to complain. George Carlin made some good points about that one.
Does in your opinion, every single young person have to vote, and to vote for the same candidate, and then, through some sort of sorcery they all get the right to complain? That's not how it works, it's called freedom of speech. Everyone has the right to complain. And you complaining about people complaining is no more constructive.

Take some time out of your day, maybe an hour or two, and go and vote. There's no reason that you can justify not doing so.

Unless your demographic is targeted and it's actually 7 hours for you, or maybe the poll closed before you could get there. Or maybe, someone from the DNC sends you to a different place that is supposedly the right polling place but that information turns out to be incorrect.

Don't all the Bernie Bros talk about how Bernie won as a Mayoral candidate by 10 votes? -- Well these young kids can be those 10 votes now.

Well that's precisely why it's important for our elections to be verifiable. Every vote counts.

Well, this topic and poll is over for me. Thanks for playing. In the spirit of the Iowa caucus I certify the results of this poll to be 3 for yes, and 2 for no, so the ayes have it! The corrected number at the top of this page will not be used as my DNC lawyers are advising me that it's illegal to change the numbers once they are in, man