Governments using COVID-19 coroavirus pandemic to promote Socialism

[Mad7Scientist]

It looks like the US government is really using this COVID-19 crisis as an excuse to push their Socialist ideas!

The US government is asking companies who have stock piled industrial masks to donate them to their local hospitals! Those businesses paid for those masks and paid to store them! The extremely wealthy medical system can surely afford to buy them.

What if you deliberately purchased items for a disaster, and paid to store them for many years? Guess what, the government wants you out of business. You won't be allowed to even pay off your investment because you'll be labeled as a price gouger. So you probably decided to have your supplies shipped out to a different country that isn't trying to push Socialism. Good for you, but you lost profit by having to ship them out, and the people who would have been able to buy your supplies lost, but the Socialist government won!

In Venezuela it already happened, so you wouldn't think it would happen in the USA, but it sort of did. In Venezuela, inflation caused prices to rapidly rise. As Socialist governments usually do, they tried to use other people's money to solve the problem. So the government responded by putting price controls on grocery store items such as toilet paper. Not being able to make money and therefore having no incentive to restock the shelves, it was all quickly sold out and nothing was available to the people.

Here in the US people panicked and started buying out all the toilet paper, as well as other items. Knowing that many stores have a lengthy return policy, they can buy out entire cases of essential items as a risk free investment knowing that it all can be returned later. With stores having return policies, and being afraid to raise their prices due to the fear of being labeled price gougers, we're now past two weeks of having not a single roll of toilet paper and other things such as hand sanitizer available for sale in entire cities.

Stores could raise their prices and end free returns to make their stock last longer. People who already have a month supply of products and are buying up entire cases of products as risk free purchases would be dissuaded from buying these things that they don't really need, but due to to return policies and price controls they are able to either justify their purchase by being able use it up eventually, return it all with no loss. The people who actually do need these things could save money and pay a higher price for these items rater than having to drive all over town only to find nothing available. Also, the factories that make these products like toilet paper have no incentive to increase production. Since the average amount of product consumed is still the same, there is no incentive to hire and train new factory workers, when a couple of months later they'll have to lay them all off again, and reduce the hours of their original workers when the panic ends and sales drop to below normal as people use up their hoarded supplies.

The only way to prevent items from being sold out is through individual rationing, or raising prices. Limiting the amount of similar items in purchases doesn't stop someone from driving from store to store and buying up to the limit, and then going back and doing it all again at the next shift change.

There is a Tennessee man named Matt Colvin who bought up entire stocks of hand sanitizer with the intention of selling it on places like amazon.com at higher prices. Amazon.com shut him down and he was was also threatened by the law. He ended up donating it all to a church. That just means that poor people who are used to grabbing whatever they can get from food pantries will end up getting it whether they need it or not. Some of it will probably end up being sold online by people who would rather have beer money than hand sanitizer. They could have at least just allowed the man to sell his inventory of hand sanitizer at a price controlled rate, but they didn't even do that.

There is currently no hand sanitizer, isopropyl alcohol, or any toilet paper available in my area unless you find out when the truck is coming and go right then to the store, before the hoarders buy it all out. The time, expense, and effort that this requires costs more than just paying several times the normal prices for these cheap items. Going to all these stores also helps spread germs.

Americans are more and more adapting a "hood" culture where it's believed that those who make more money and have nice things are to blame for the community's problems. That's how it is in the hood. If someone starts to get ahead, and gets a nicer house or nicer car, the other members of the community might vandalize it or place a stolen item on that person's property to try to get them arrested for theft. It seems that the more down and out you are, the more respect you have in the hood. As soon as someone tries to work their way out of poverty, the rest of the community pulls them back down.

The same thing is happening with the Socialist anti price gouging people. People are more concerned that a store might make a profit from a disaster than they are about the well being of the people who need the items that the store sells. As long as the store isn't allowed to make a profit from a disaster, then all is good. According to them, who cares if store closes down and all the people who depend on it are left starving.

We should be thanking people who buy price controlled products when they have the opportunity to and then resell those products at a reasonably higher price. As long as the price isn't so high that they are supply gouging by not selling their inventory by the time the disaster is over, they are helping many people by making something available that would otherwise be sitting unused in some hoarder's house. If you look at the reviews for items like toilet paper on eBay, there are many Socialist people who are leaving nasty message about bad sellers being price gougers. But what do they do? They buy it anyway because they have to. Their own Socialist grocery stores are completely out of stock. I believe that only a small portion of that is due to resellers; most of the purchased inventory will just sit unused for weeks or months in people's pantries. There are hardly any people leaving reviews promoting the free market side of things. It seems that the left is far more vocal about their ideas than right is, especially on the Internet. If you like freedom, you should be helping by leaving a thank you review to these resellers.

There is always one group that is allowed to profit from a disaster, and those are the people who created the disaster.

[KingScorpio]

strange trump and many right wingers will consider those "socialist" ideast to be "nationalist" ideas.

its everyone's own choice to accept usd or gold coins. for their work, nevertheless in usa people are forced to work

[BADecker]

There are two points to consider:
1. Having mercy on people who have great need;
2. Freedom to make a profit.

There are stories about people who made carburetors for cars that allowed the car to get 100 miles-per-gallon of gasoline. They say that the car and oil companies bought these carburetors up along with the patents, and that they won't allow them into the public because they want to make more money selling gasoline/oil.

Freedom to make profit is great. But don't tie the market up in ways that keep people from being free to move ahead in life.

Reminds me of the saying about pro (in favor of) and con (against): Con is to Congress as pro is to progress.

[Cnut237]

It looks like the US government is really using this COVID-19 crisis as an excuse to push their Socialist ideas!

No, it doesn't mean that at all, that's nonsense. Trump is about as far from a socialist as you can get. Same here in the UK with Boris Johnson.

"Normal" free-market globalised capitalism works fine when everything is going well... if by fine we mean the rich skimming off the profits and the poor being allowed to just about survive. Then as soon as the shit hits the fan, the general public are expected to pay up. Privatised profit, socialised risk, as always.

So when things go bad, say a financial crisis or a global pandemic, that wonderful free-market capitalism collapses and it is left to national governments to sort out the mess. They can't just bail out the banks this time, they have to bail out everyone. Any socialist-style policies are implemented not from ideological purpose, but as a last desperate attempt to prop up an economy that has been hollowed out by decades of capitalist exploitation.

The elites like the status quo; it has been set up precisely to benefit them at the expense of everyone else. They will do anything to perpetuate the existing system. They'll even hold their noses and implement partial socialism as an emergency stop-gap until the elite-feeding money-train is back on track.

[franky1]

when it comes to how the government spends its treasury money. here is some tips
capitalism: governments favour spending funds on corporations, in an excuse of 'top down' economics
communism: governments take over corporations/utilities and 'nationalise' them to keep the funds within political grasp
socialism: governments pay the front line people in need, the poor the elderly and those employee's that need help most

no government is 100% any of the above. they all have policies that swing around the edges of each category to try to get the maximum coverage of most voters happy to keep them in power.

at this time we are seeing a bit more capitalist/socialism in terms of trying to keep corporate america alive and also the vulnerable people alive.
in america it sways a little more towards capitalism by trump wanting the shops to open again and get back to business even if 99% of people have not even got he virus yet to be herd immune. and using herd immunity (many waves) as an excuse to get businesses going again

in UK it seems to sway a little more towards socialism by not really caring for corporation survival with no D-Day plan for 'business as usual for 1+ years. we also hear whispers of things like renationalising the transport network like trains and buses so it sways more to the social communinst side

but this does not make them 100% of anything. but swaying the fringes of all. and occassionally leaning towards one direction or another.

in some ways this can be seen as good policy. changing to fit the need at the time. but sometimes they get it wrong in many ways by leaning in the wrong direction.

[madnessteat]

~snip~

In fact, it's not just in the United States right now. At present, there are no disinfectants and medical masks on the shelves of shops and pharmacies in Russia. It is possible not to dream about respirators at all. But all this is on sale through the Internet.

I think that people who resell goods during the coronavirus pandemic should be punished with heavy fines so that they do not create a deficit.

[BADecker]

~snip~

In fact, it's not just in the United States right now. At present, there are no disinfectants and medical masks on the shelves of shops and pharmacies in Russia. It is possible not to dream about respirators at all. But all this is on sale through the Internet.

I think that people who resell goods during the coronavirus pandemic should be punished with heavy fines so that they do not create a deficit.

Why punish people who simply make a profit? Government should be punished for not showing people how to make effective masks at home, out of common, household items. But government won't do this. They would lose too much sales tax.

[Mad7Scientist]

socialism: governments pay the front line people in need, the poor the elderly and those employee's that need help most

There is one problem with this, and it's the same problem that gets ignored over and over. Governments don't have any money. The money that they have is taken from people and companies through taxes.

I think that people who resell goods during the coronavirus pandemic should be punished with heavy fines so that they do not create a deficit.

What if I desperately need some supplies to save my life, and I can't get any because all price controlled products at stores are sold out, and the resellers have been shut down?

I highly doubt that resellers have much to do with the store shelves being empty. And if they're reselling all of their product, then it is impossible for resellers to be causing this, since the same amount of product is being sold in to the economy.

[franky1]

~snip~

In fact, it's not just in the United States right now. At present, there are no disinfectants and medical masks on the shelves of shops and pharmacies in Russia. It is possible not to dream about respirators at all. But all this is on sale through the Internet.

I think that people who resell goods during the coronavirus pandemic should be punished with heavy fines so that they do not create a deficit.

for good protection people need to be changing masks/gloves with every person they come into contact with who has corona.
in hospitals UK and US it has been suggested that staff were only given a supply of 2 facemasks a day ration. yet were handling dozens of patients multiples times

its much better allow nurses a supply of say 50 a day. for adequate NEEDED use. for this simple fact.
nurses are face to face with the truly sick people

however on the street. the numbers show only 1% is getting corona. so that should mean one person does not need to be changing gloves 50 times a day because the risk number is not that high.
even if someone gets it. the risk to them is low for being severe.

however nurses breathing in and touching dozens of patients will be super contaminated with 50x the amount of virus being inhaled and touched. compared to the small chance of a 2 second door handle touch

so yea stock should go to hospitals. and consumers should follow herd immunity
control who gets it and when to reduce the pace of the spread.
this means. those true at risk, just stay home. those that think they are ok. stay at a distance and reduce risk of getting it by not licking doorknobs all day.
and if you get it. hi chance of no severity. but if severe just know there is a hospital waiting for you because the nurses are protected and wont themselves be going home sick.. because if nurses do go home sick. the critical patents wont have anyone to help

so dont think you having a box of 50 gloves a day out of fear just one person might have it. because the ds are better if you just limit your interactions

but hospitals NEED it. because without nurses. those small percentages of severe symptom people will need care

[franky1]

socialism: governments pay the front line people in need, the poor the elderly and those employee's that need help most

There is one problem with this, and it's the same problem that gets ignored over and over. Governments don't have any money. The money that they have is taken from people and companies through taxes.

it doesnt matter if its a government. a membership. a committee a corp. a co-op. a whatever. in regard to where the money came from.
if they are suppose to TAKE MONEY from a group of people with promises to serve and protect that group. then its what they do with the money they got that counts.

i do understand that the % amount they tax individual vs corp can show which way the favour. but trying to make it a point about that they 'dont have money' is not a point

[madnessteat]

Why punish people who simply make a profit? Government should be punished for not showing people how to make effective masks at home, out of common, household items. But government won't do this. They would lose too much sales tax.

The government, of course, must also be held accountable. Most of these sellers do not have a license for entrepreneurial activity. And in fact, people have a conscience, but some people are willing to forget about it when they see a chance to earn money.

~snip~

If masks are sent to medical institutions it is right, but when someone has bought tens of thousands of masks and sells them over the Internet it is a different conversation.

[franky1]

Why punish people who simply make a profit?

but some people are willing to forget about it when they see a chance to earn money.

dont worry about badecker he favours the side of scammers. he literally goes full ass-kisser protector to defend them
but i feel that he personally does not have the courage or smarts to actually follow through with a scam himself. so he wants to blame government for why he is not rich.
reality is he doesnt know how to earn money honestly. and too afraid to earn it unlawfully.
so just dont worry about him.