2014 World Fiat Collapse?

[mgburks77]

As far as I can tell, there's no reason to believe fiat currencies/economies are headed for any kind of collapse.

Sure there is: the simple mathematical fact that an ever-increasing expansion of debt (which the current system is based on) is unsustainable.

Debt is just a number, a value stored in a computer database. A number can get as big as you want it to get. If you were talking about exponential growth in the use of resources or energy, etc, I'd agree, that's mathematically not possible to sustain forever. But if we're just talking about currency/debt, the numbers can just as easily be quadrillions as billions, can just as easily be 10^100000 instead of quadrillions, and society will look no different.

The number used to enumerate the debt is directly related to usage of resource or energy. It represents deficits in both items.

So, it's not "just a number" at all. It is a symbolic representation of how much resources are used by a particular process. If the numbers don't all add up then society's goals and the means to legitimately attain them will not correspond, a condition called "anomie", which is exactly what our society is currently facing.

Colloquially when people talk about how society is "breaking down", or the family unit is "breaking down" they are referring to this sociological process. People begin to ignore social norms when they figure out they are useless, or worse, detrimental to their own individual interests and thus "society breaks down". Right now it's just people being a littler ruder or ignoring social conventions. But if it gets bad enough even the most deeply ingrained social taboos such as the prohibition against cannibalism, and the social evolution that caused humans to stop looking at each other as a food source could be erased, just like that. 

If you can't see how this relates to the social situation in the developing world you have your head in the sand.

The cost of energy or resources in units of fiat currency changes. We have inflation, etc. Just because there's 2% more currency this year than last year doesn't mean there's also 2% more resources in play... there are many other dynamic factors involved.

In regards to society "breaking down"... people always say this, but there's no evidence of it actually happening. In fact, crimes of almost all kinds are at their lowest in decades in many Western countries. And as for the developing world, wealth is being rapidly created there and a new worldwide middle class of hundreds of millions of people is rapidly emerging.

We are living in the golden age of humankind.

Depends on who you mean when you say "we". If you are one a of the billions who bear the burden of the unpaid external costs that allow a few live in unprecedented luxury it ain't so golden.

[Swordsoffreedom]

 

Good old media Guns ^_^ That is a good one

[Bonam]

Depends on who you mean when you say "we". If you are one a of the billions who bear the burden of the unpaid external costs that allow a few live in unprecedented luxury it ain't so golden.

Life is materially better for a higher % of the world's population than it's ever been. Rates of starvation and disease are down all around the world, life expectancies are drastically up in all but the very very worst few countries (compared even to just a few decades ago), rates of child morality are way down. In the developing world, more people are being raised out of poverty every day than ever before. And in the West, the "poor" today live like the aristocrats of a short time ago.

People have no historical perspective when they perceive all the doom and gloom.

[mgburks77]

Take "terrorism" for example. It is simply resistance to economic dominance by the core industrial nations. Blow-back, so to speak, from actions take to secure free trade ie imperialism.

This is an example in the many ways the social order is breaking down. You mention that crime is at all time low. Well, incarceration rates in the US are at levels unprecedented in previous historical periods and the police have been militarized to curtail behavior that is deemed counterproductive to industrial production and property ownership.  

We are taking corrective action in order to "solve" the crises that are result of our previous "corrective" actions. It's creating a negative feedback loop essentially. The system of human society, and life itself even, is of a self correcting nature, if you understand the ramification of that.

[Bonam]

Take "terrorism" for example. It is simply resistance to economic dominance by the core industrial nations. Blow-back, so to speak, from actions take to secure free trade ie imperialism.

This is an example in the many ways the social order is breaking down. You mention that crime is at all time low. Well, incarceration rates in the US are at levels unprecedented in previous historical periods and the police have been militarized to curtail behavior that is deemed counterproductive to industrial production and property ownership.  

We are taking corrective action in order to "solve" the crises that are result of our previous "corrective" actions. It's creating a negative feedback loop essentially. The system of human society, and life itself even, is of a self correcting nature, if you understand the ramification of that.

Terrorism is a minor footnote, irrelevant other than for Western overreactions to it. Small groups of crazy people have always carried out crazy violence against others, in most any civilization throughout history. Your chance of being killed by terrorism is less than your chance of being killed by lightning, or whatever the stat is.

US incarceration rates are an anomaly among Western nations, and indicative only of flawed policies regarding crime and punishment, which can and will eventually be corrected.

I agree that human societies and "life itself" are systems of a "self-correcting nature", which is why I'm not worried. Any system out there that is too wrong will fall, and be replaced with something better. Like tyrannical monarchies, like communism, flawed systems wither and die, either from internal resistance or due to the indisputable inferiority of the results they produce compared to external competitors.

[Vod]

And what would FIAT be replaced with in 5 years??

In 5-10 years they might need to slash 3 zeros from the USD and call it the new dollar.

In 5-10 years they might get rid of the nickel.  Canada got rid of our penny last year.

[mgburks77]

Take "terrorism" for example. It is simply resistance to economic dominance by the core industrial nations. Blow-back, so to speak, from actions take to secure free trade ie imperialism.

This is an example in the many ways the social order is breaking down. You mention that crime is at all time low. Well, incarceration rates in the US are at levels unprecedented in previous historical periods and the police have been militarized to curtail behavior that is deemed counterproductive to industrial production and property ownership.  

We are taking corrective action in order to "solve" the crises that are result of our previous "corrective" actions. It's creating a negative feedback loop essentially. The system of human society, and life itself even, is of a self correcting nature, if you understand the ramification of that.

Terrorism is a minor footnote, irrelevant other than for Western overreactions to it. Small groups of crazy people have always carried out crazy violence against others, in most any civilization throughout history. Your chance of being killed by terrorism is less than your chance of being killed by lightning, or whatever the stat is.

US incarceration rates are an anomaly among Western nations, and indicative only of flawed policies regarding crime and punishment, which can and will eventually be corrected.

I agree that human societies and "life itself" are systems of a "self-correcting nature", which is why I'm not worried. Any system out there that is too wrong will fall, and be replaced with something better. Like tyrannical monarchies, like communism, flawed systems wither and die, either from internal resistance or due to the indisputable inferiority of the results they produce compared to external competitors.

self-correcting doesn't mean we get to go on like always, it means our system is eradicated and replaced with system that is more fit.

Your responses are simply hubris

[Bonam]

self-correcting doesn't mean we get to go on like always, it means our system is eradicated and replaced with system that is more fit.

Your responses are simply hubris

Yes, systems can and do get replaced all the time. Like the bretton-woods system being implemented, and then replaced. Meanwhile life goes on. I think violent revolution is unlikely in the Western world... seriously, who's gonna get up from their comfy lifestyles and risk their lives? Not gonna happen.

It is not hubris to disagree with all the doom prophets around here.

[mgburks77]

self-correcting doesn't mean we get to go on like always, it means our system is eradicated and replaced with system that is more fit.

Your responses are simply hubris

Yes, systems can and do get replaced all the time. Like the bretton-woods system being implemented, and then replaced. Meanwhile life goes on. I think violent revolution is unlikely in the Western world... seriously, who's gonna get up from their comfy lifestyles and risk their lives? Not gonna happen.

It is not hubris to disagree with all the doom prophets around here.

Well, I wasn't saying that, so much. But we do have very serious systemic issues that I feel like you aren't really addressing in depth.

I don't think most people are as "comfy" as you believe them to be, that is an assumption based on class privilege. And there are some trends that are going to tend to negate any of that effect as most jobs and professions will be automated before long which will eliminate the tax base and consumerism as a social function and that in itself is going to entail some major social change and, yes, perhaps even getting off of the sofa once in a while.

It seems either violence or a slide into irrelevance are inevitable if we only react sluggishly after the fact instead of being proactive in meeting the challenges we face..

 

[tkbx]

It's tough to put a date on it. I expect within 5 years, but it could be this year, it could be 15. Either way, stock up on as much silver, gold, food, supplies, etc as you can, as soon as you can.

As much as I love Bitcoin, it will be fairly useless during an economic collapse unless >25% of your nation uses it. If the internet goes down, you will have to have paper wallets made, and have a trading partner who trusts you enough to take your word that the address still has the balance you claim.

[Swordsoffreedom]

It's tough to put a date on it. I expect within 5 years, but it could be this year, it could be 15. Either way, stock up on as much silver, gold, food, supplies, etc as you can, as soon as you can.

As much as I love Bitcoin, it will be fairly useless during an economic collapse unless >25% of your nation uses it. If the internet goes down, you will have to have paper wallets made, and have a trading partner who trusts you enough to take your word that the address still has the balance you claim.

Internet and a War would actually create a World Fiat Collapse and a Digital Fiat Collapse but I guess the counterargument is that if that ever occurred we have bigger problems to worry about than if our cryptocurrency is valueless.

As an aside guess that is a globalism vs nationalism argument in regard to fiat and digital money.