Identifying alts using posted addresses

[Vod]

I see a lot of scam busters on here doing a great job tracking alt accounts.

How long do you think it will be before people start framing each other by posting addresses that are not theirs?

True, they are going to post an address that they control to get the coin.   But if they don't really care about the airdrop (or whatever) they can just use an alt account to post the address of someone they don't like and both accounts are banned.

I guess I should take this opp to say I've never engaged in any activity here that required me to post an address for payment. 

[AB de Royse777]

True, they are going to post an address that they control to get the coin.   But if they don't really care about the airdrop (or whatever) they can just use an alt account to post the address of someone they don't like and both accounts are banned.

For this reason we can not say for sure that two or more accounts are connected just because same address posted from those accounts or someone quoted someone else's post which looks they were following up some comments. I have already seen few cases and my standing was pretty much looking to where these ends.

[Lauda]

How long do you think it will be before people start framing each other by posting addresses that are not theirs?

I believe such cases must have already happened. This is less of a problem than you think. If somebody enters some shitcoin bounty with my address, is anybody reasonable going to believe it was me? [1] The same goes for you and others. Most affected members would be other bounty spammers, sig. spammers on various levels. Behavioural analyses makes this less of a problem.

True, they are going to post an address that they control to get the coin.   But if they don't really care about the airdrop (or whatever) they can just use an alt account to post the address of someone they don't like and both accounts are banned.

For this reason we can not say for sure that two or more accounts are connected just because same address posted from those accounts or someone quoted someone else's post which looks they were following up some comments. I have already seen few cases and my standing was pretty much looking to where these ends.

In >95% of the cases that people were connected this way, they were actually connected. Are you saying such rates of accuracy are inadequate?
[1] There was a case where a long time ago where Yahoo asked me linking me to some spreadsheet, I had no idea what the project was nor did I enter its airdrop.

[AB de Royse777]

In >95% of the cases that people were connected this way, they were actually connected. Are you saying such rates of accuracy are inadequate?  

I never done the math percentage but unless there are some other facts and evidence is obvious then it's a hard call, at least for me.

That spreadsheet example is a good one.

[Lauda]

In >95% of the cases that people were connected this way, they were actually connected. Are you saying such rates of accuracy are inadequate?  

I never done the math percentage but unless there are some others facts and evidence is obvious then it's a hard call, at least for ms.

How is it a hard call if it was almost always correct This does not make sense to me. You should exercise caution when evaluating, but you should also keep in mind its correctness. The average user being caught this was has no idea what they are doing let alone ways of evading.

[noorman0]

Alternative identifications IMO for this case are:

- The language used, or the style of English (if they have never posted locally).
- Forum boards that they usually discuss (based on posts)
- Airdrop history followed by both accounts (based on post history).
- Original ERC20 balances from both accounts (based on the addresses of other wallets previously used).

[AB de Royse777]

How is it a hard call if it was almost always correct This does not make sense to me. You should exercise caution when evaluating, but you should also keep in mind its correctness. The average user being caught this was has no idea what they are doing let alone ways of evading.

I said earlier that I have not done the math yet so I can not come to a conclusion. I am also not invalidating your point of judgement. If my memory is not too bad then I have seen few cases where I could not make a clear call.

[Jawhead999]

Yeah, it's can happen of many user, especially for newbie account.
All rank can join in bounties, it's why so easy to make new account and post other user address.

True, they are going to post an address that they control to get the coin.   But if they don't really care about the airdrop (or whatever) they can just use an alt account to post the address of someone they don't like and both accounts are banned.

I think it's why we have meta board to explain if he was never cheating a campaign or never create alt account.
If he get banned or red trust from DT user, but he didn't make a new thread about his banned account. It's clear he is agree if he cheating in this forum.

[Shimmiry]

I see a lot of scam busters on here doing a great job tracking alt accounts.

How long do you think it will be before people start framing each other by posting addresses that are not theirs?

True, they are going to post an address that they control to get the coin.   But if they don't really care about the airdrop (or whatever) they can just use an alt account to post the address of someone they don't like and both accounts are banned.

I guess I should take this opp to say I've never engaged in any activity here that required me to post an address for payment. 

As far as I know there are programmers here and maybe they could somehow make a script that could search all users whom are active for 3 to 6 months and what bitcoin addresses are they posting in campaigns. The idea is to get all user posts that has the term "Bitcoin Address" and the 34 characters followed and if those characters (the wallet address) can be found on the forum with another user posted it. I knew it would be a hard program to make but it would be worth it for the management somehow.

[Lauda]

How is it a hard call if it was almost always correct This does not make sense to me. You should exercise caution when evaluating, but you should also keep in mind its correctness. The average user being caught this was has no idea what they are doing let alone ways of evading.

I said earlier that I have not done the math yet so I can not come to a conclusion. I am also not invalidating your point of judgement. If my memory is not too bad then I have seen few cases where I could not make a clear call.

Correct, but I am talking about cases where we were really wrong in the end (this is a subset of the set of all the times we were wrong because this includes cases that we do not know about). Sometimes they are inconclusive sure, but I would not doubt its superb accuracy (is far from perfect, but no tool is perfect). We make use of what little we are given here. 

[AB de Royse777]

Correct, but I am talking about cases where we were really wrong in the end (this is a subset of the set of all the times we were wrong because this includes cases that we do not know about). Sometimes they are inconclusive sure, but I would not doubt its superb accuracy (is far from perfect, but no tool is perfect). We make use of what little we are given here. 

Perhaps from now on I will try to follow the reputation board a little more than before. :-D

[Lauda]

Correct, but I am talking about cases where we were really wrong in the end (this is a subset of the set of all the times we were wrong because this includes cases that we do not know about). Sometimes they are inconclusive sure, but I would not doubt its superb accuracy (is far from perfect, but no tool is perfect). We make use of what little we are given here. 

Perhaps from now on I will try to follow the reputation board a little more than before. :-D

If you care for your health, then this is not the wisest decision. You're welcome to the party.

[YOSHIE]

True, they are going to post an address that they control to get the coin.   But if they don't really care about the airdrop (or whatever) they can just use an alt account to post the address of someone they don't like and both accounts are banned.

In cases like this have happened, account A took the address and profile of another person, posting to various campaigns.
Example:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5236686.msg54127767#msg54127767

But it can be seen from the campaign Spreadsheet, when the prize manager does not accept both of them or account A only posts the Application once, after which it disappears.
And the main account can give red/neutral if it's not the main Alt account.

For example: Account A takes someone else's et address and slanders in various campaigns / fraud.

If trading: I exchange xxx coins with account B.

It is known here that the account has a trading relationship or takes someone else's eth address.

Different, if viewed from the results of different campaign tokens sent to the same address, but different accounts, that is clearly an Alt account.


There are actually three options to resolve your doubt vod.

In detecting them the same person (one user) Alt, native.
One:
Prepare a Spreadsheet sheet, to prove they are Alt connected.

1. Example: Spreadsheet: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5232726.msg54031548#msg54031548

Here uses a different address.
That is: address A is used in a different campaign by an Alt account, to most they use one or two addresses, but those who use the same Alt remain.


2. The second:
Blockhain: etherscan.io/address: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2544574.msg54091574#msg54091574

Here proves they send coins to the same address round and round and continue to do day after day.

of course additional evidence is needed: telegram, twitter, facebook etc.


After all this was published with accurate evidence, they appeared and said: that was my grandmother, my aunt, my wife, my sister-in-law, etc.

Done.


If the Alt account that is blocked is driven by this rule:

25. Ban evasion (using or creating accounts while one of your accounts is banned) is not allowed.[e]
Q: Why was my account banned?
A: You probably have broken one of the rules. Try emailing a message to the specified appeal email shown in your ban message.

Example; https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2544574.msg54081311#msg54081311
Instead they create even more. While the rules are clear.

Some people obey, some ignore their meanings: missing one grows a thousand, a silly saying used by many militaries.
And don't forget again your Bpip is very helpful in this case, you are a genius.

[Pffrt]

On the other hand, identifying alts with connection of addresses can go wrong also. For example, I have not participated in Mb8coin bounty but I have purchased some from bounty hunters before listing. Now, if I had participated in the bounty and received coins from them too in the same address, would you call me bounty cheater? Not necessarily but that's the truth. Connected in address = Bounty cheater which sometimes is not the case. Posting an address should not be the only case to call someone  bounty cheater but that can be one of some other criteria.

[Lauda]

On the other hand, identifying alts with connection of addresses can go wrong also. For example, I have not participated in Mb8coin bounty but I have purchased some from bounty hunters before listing. Now, if I had participated in the bounty and received coins from them too in the same address, would you call me bounty cheater? Not necessarily but that's the truth. Connected in address = Bounty cheater which sometimes is not the case. Posting an address should not be the only case to call someone  bounty cheater but that can be one of some other criteria.

Stop sig. spam posting. I have answered the same together with Royse777.

How long do you think it will be before people start framing each other by posting addresses that are not theirs?

I believe such cases must have already happened. This is less of a problem than you think. If somebody enters some shitcoin bounty with my address, is anybody reasonable going to believe it was me? [1] The same goes for you and others. Most affected members would be other bounty spammers, sig. spammers on various levels. Behavioural analyses makes this less of a problem.

True, they are going to post an address that they control to get the coin.   But if they don't really care about the airdrop (or whatever) they can just use an alt account to post the address of someone they don't like and both accounts are banned.

For this reason we can not say for sure that two or more accounts are connected just because same address posted from those accounts or someone quoted someone else's post which looks they were following up some comments. I have already seen few cases and my standing was pretty much looking to where these ends.

In >95% of the cases that people were connected this way, they were actually connected. Are you saying such rates of accuracy are inadequate?
[1] There was a case where a long time ago where Yahoo asked me linking me to some spreadsheet, I had no idea what the project was nor did I enter its airdrop.

How is it a hard call if it was almost always correct This does not make sense to me. You should exercise caution when evaluating, but you should also keep in mind its correctness. The average user being caught this was has no idea what they are doing let alone ways of evading.

I said earlier that I have not done the math yet so I can not come to a conclusion. I am also not invalidating your point of judgement. If my memory is not too bad then I have seen few cases where I could not make a clear call.

Correct, but I am talking about cases where we were really wrong in the end (this is a subset of the set of all the times we were wrong because this includes cases that we do not know about). Sometimes they are inconclusive sure, but I would not doubt its superb accuracy (is far from perfect, but no tool is perfect). We make use of what little we are given here. 

[Pmalek]

Here is a recent thread where one user is asking why he got banned because he didn't do anything wrong.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5238000.0

Turns out he has at least 6-7 additional alt accounts based on the connection that was made between the ETH addresses that were used. He claims one account is not his, another one belongs to his girlfriend, and for the rest...well he was set up and framed. Quite an interesting read.  

[Vod]

As far as I know there are programmers here and maybe they could somehow make a script that could search all users whom are active for 3 to 6 months and what bitcoin addresses are they posting in campaigns. The idea is to get all user posts that has the term "Bitcoin Address" and the 34 characters followed and if those characters (the wallet address) can be found on the forum with another user posted it. I knew it would be a hard program to make but it would be worth it for the management somehow.

Actually very easy, and you don't even need machine learning.

Remove the quotes, separate post into an  space delimited array and then find the values that match the string parameters.

And don't forget again your Bpip is very helpful in this case, you are a genius.

Thanks old timer.  I built it, but IB gave it life and credibility with a design and then SM helped out with issues I couldn't solve quickly.  I've posted this before but it's nice to see everything calculating properly again. 

He claims one account is not his, another one belongs to his girlfriend, and for the rest...well he was set up and framed. Quite an interesting read.   

Yeah, they all say that. 

[Timelord2067]

I see a lot of scam busters on here doing a great job tracking alt accounts.

How long do you think it will be before people start framing each other by posting addresses that are not theirs?

That has actually occurred in the past (mainly in the ^{Mk I} and ^{Mk II} Known Alts threads) - users were slapped with DT1 negative trust and then "asked" to post a signed message with the wallet address that was used.  No signed message = scammer & Red Paint ^TM sticks.  I can't recall the last time it occurred, but it's always on the cards.


(One of the many reasons I'm trying to use vanity generated wallet addresses for the various SigCamps I've signed up for)

[DdmrDdmr]

When I stared off here, I did some (small amount of) monkeying around with airdrops and bounties. I recall using other’s people’s posts as a template, by copying their post and replacing the data with mine. At one point I did not replace the ETH address, and although it didn’t take me long to see the mistake, chances are that there are quite a few that will follow the monkey see monkey do routine, and leave some of the data unedited on the post they copied from someone else and used it as a template.

Probably recurrence using the same linking social accounts or addresses should be taken into account to link Bitcointalk accounts. A one-off is not really heavy proof.

[sujonali1819]

I have also some confusion about this issue. And sometimes I have investigated mine by own. so that I can report it to the community. Because It's really possible to do by some bad person who does not like me. But I think no high-rank member will do it. Most of the cases it might be done by some shady and red trusted members.