On Mar 12, BTC was at $12M (sell order) to reach a value of 0$

[ChiNgadOr]

We are all aware of what happened last March 12, with bitcoin, which is supposedly uncorrelated to the other markets. It is supposed to be a safe haven in times of crisis (in fact this is what inspired its creation during the 2008 crisis), which was supposed to reach new highs (according to the less optimistic) and 1 Million (those with a good drug dealer with high quality opium). The reality is quite different: the asset fell 65% in a single session, the order book in the exchange with the highest volume (Bitmex), was reduced to almost nothing. With a market sale of 12 million dollars, bitcoin would have reached a value close to 0$. This is no my stupid claim, but about real facts (see pic) and out of discussion. Everyone should think about the safety of his wealth invested in crypto. For me it has become the biggest ponzi in the world, where only the early adopters (first ones who arrived and mined BTC with a game boy) and exchanges (liquidating traders) win. I haven't always been like that. I don't consider myself a pessimist but a realist. I don't marry any currency and I adapt to the circumstances. I used to be a person with illusion and convinced of the future of Bitcoin.  In 2011 I bought my first 100 BTCs for 51 cents (although they were later stolen at MT Gox), in 2018 I sold my girlfriend's car to buy crypto. Things have changed a lot, and still a lot more to come. BTC seems to me inefficient in many aspects, and with the arrival of STOs, crypto fiat, etc... things will get very, very hard, so don't be surprised later.

[Tytanowy Janusz]

ALMOST "reach a value of 0$" for a millisecond on a single exchange that crashed during massive spam of trades. So what? Does that change anything for you how low flash-crash went? It's only flash crash. Currently, SP500 is -17% from before covid panic sell - btc is -25%!
SP500 is a index of 500 biggest US stocks, was prevented from drops by circuit breakouts (at least 20), helped by helicopter money. BTC was on his own.

link
"Traditional markets are in circuit breaker mode the majority of time;. They only trade occasionally." - BTC was exposed to panic sell for much longer.

But lets also compare average volatility. According to that BTC reacted more calmly to panic sell than most assets. Especially stocks.


link


link


Safe-haven saves you during economic crisis. Nothing saves you during market crash. Especially during whole world, all assets massive panic sell caused by pandemic.
Economic crisis is not equal market crash.
Flash-crash is only a flash-crash. Does not mean anything.

[BChydro]

We are all aware of what happened last March 12, with bitcoin, which is supposedly uncorrelated to the other markets. It is supposed to be a safe haven in times of crisis (in fact this is what inspired its creation during the 2008 crisis)

These are just assumptions and i cannot find Satoshi telling that bitcoin is created because he saw the crisis and he wanted a market that could help everyone during the crisis, you are thinking too much about the situation and no one ever said that you can view bitcoin as a safe heaven and no one can guarantee that as we are yet to see how the market will behave during an economic crisis. One thing is certain though, you will not see the price of bitcoin going back to zero unless there is a serious technical flaw that could take the market down.

[jackg]

Safe-haven saves you during economic crisis. Nothing saves you during market crash. Especially during whole world, all assets massive panic sell caused by pandemic.
Economic crisis is not equal market crash.
Flash-crash is only a flash-crash. Does not mean anything.

Yeah this is also a significant thing to look at too. When retail try to rebalance assets quite a few of them will do quick sells in order to work out how much they actually have to rebalance diversification or reanalyse risk. So we can expect some sort of fall in prices at the immedate impact. Also a lot of people sell due to fear, seeing a bounce as high we can see there was a lot of interest in trying to buy up the btc at the low 3800$ prices.


@OP I haven't seen that chart before what is it meant to be of (liquidation engine) could you provide some context?

[ChiNgadOr]

ALMOST "reach a value of 0$" for a millisecond on a single exchange that crashed during massive spam of trades. So what? Does that change anything for you how low flash-crash went? It's only flash crash. Currently, SP500 is -17% from before covid panic sell - btc is -25%!
SP500 is a index of 500 biggest US stocks, was prevented from drops by circuit breakouts (at least 20), helped by helicopter money. BTC was on his own.

link
"Traditional markets are in circuit breaker mode the majority of time;. They only trade occasionally." - BTC was exposed to panic sell for much longer.

But lets also compare also average volatility. According to that BTC reacted more calmly to panic sell than most assets. Especially stocks.




Safe-haven saves you during economic crisis. Nothing saves you during market crash. Especially during whole world, all assets massive panic sell caused by pandemic.
Economic crisis is not equal market crash.
Flash-crash is only a flash-crash. Does not mean anything.

ohh yeah.."helped by helicopter money. BTC was on his own." i was expecting the typical propaganda about inflation blablabla you complain about the FED printing money? happened the same or worse wiht BTC
Here you got what Tether did short time ago.. from 4.6 to 6.2 Billions (35% up) (SEE PICS). pumping hard  BTC with FAKE money.. This is why New York City main legal attorney sued Bitfinex, and there are messages recorded about "we must pump the market" during 2017 as proofs for the case pending in court.  Maybe this is also why a friend that was working with the business development of Bitfinex in EU left his job after realizing the company is full of shit and there is no real USD backing it..


Do you know how was pumped BTC during last 3 months from 6.5k to 10k? look at the 50M. spoof orders on bitmex.. Try to do this in any regulated market .. know what would happen? jail

You talk about flash crash? did you saw the price swings? BTC did this..  from 8200$ (7600$ 5600$ 7100$ 5600$ 5700$ 6300$ 4300$ 5700$) until 3600$,.. There is circuit breaker in US stock markets, and it sucks, yeah.. but let me know any single stock from US NYSE that would drop to 0 if you sell $12.5M at market price.

come on man.. prove I am wrong

[Tytanowy Janusz]

come on man.. prove I am wrong

come on man ... prove anything you are saying first.
Friend in bitfinex... ha ha
Pump 50% during 2 months only because of 50M. spoof orders? ha ha


That's $140 M 5 min candle on binance futures - currently the biggest futures exchange.

Jail because of that?

5 global banks fined $3.4B for attempted market manipulation
Six banks fined $5.6bn over rigging of foreign exchange markets
Citigroup Hit Hardest as EU Fines Banks $1.2 Billion Over FX
Deutsche Bank to pay $60 million to settle U.S. gold price-fixing case
It took me only 3 min to collect that. Just put "bank manipulation forex gold" in google.
Huge banks are constantly manipulating market. No one is going to jail. They are being charged hundreds million $ for that, they accept it and continue to manipulate because they are earning dozens times more from that.

pumping hard  BTC with FAKE money..

Any proof? That this particular 1.5 bil$ print was all fake?
Even so, this was printed on 31 march - after recovery from 3800 to 6700!


And guess what. Binance futures and Bitmex (two biggest exchanges that trades bTC futures) does not use tether.

I can go and undermine every of your word.

Just like this one:

There is circuit breaker in US stock markets, and it sucks, yeah.. but let me know any single stock from US NYSE that would drop to 0 if you sell $12.5M at market price.

Would you like to buy BTC at 1-1000$? Was your buy order there? At 1$ 10$ 100$ 1000$? No because you would never expect flash crash to go this deep - and it didn't. Who would lock his money for months in hope to see flash crash going that low? No one. In regulated market you have circuit breaker that locks market and gives you time to put your order. There was no time for that that day and even if it would happened (BTC hit 0$ on single exchange - bitmex- due to flash-crash) than what? BTC was worth 0 for millisecond on single exchange. And what? It's still 7000$ now.

And edit your post. 3 SS of tether chart is not necessary. Especcialy that big. Add width=500 - [.img width=500]xxx[/img.]

[casperBGD]

come on man.. prove I am wrong

first of all, change the name of topic, it was a March 12, not May 12, then provide some better explanation for you are trying to prove, and then provide evidence for this one
"In 2011 I bought my first 100 BTCs for 51 cents (although they were later stolen at MT Gox)"
then we can discuss what you are saying, since this what you are writing is just panic over the event that pass behind us, and there is no consequences on BTC at the moment, BTC is down from pre-covid prices, but most of trade assets are, it is a global pandemic that we all are facing, and panic over single event would not help, certainly

[ChiNgadOr]

The only thing your are right, was the obvious mistake in the tittle, which was clear lates in the subject of the post. Gor the rest, your answer is absolutely empty and doesn't add any value at all. BTC's narrative about digital gold is nonsense propaganda , there was no asset in the whole world that dumped more than BTC (around 65% was the max diff in price that day) and could have been worse and gone to 0 if someone would have decided to sell $ 12M. At market price, which would have left Bitmex book empty. Meanwhile look at GOLD's performance.

[Tytanowy Janusz]

The only thing your are right, was the obvious mistake in the tittle, which was clear lates in the subject of the post. Gor the rest, your answer is absolutely empty and doesn't add any value at all. BTC's narrative about digital gold is nonsense propaganda , there was no asset in the whole world that dumped more than BTC (around 65% was the max diff in price that day) and could have been worse and gone to 0 if someone would have decided to sell $ 12M. At market price, which would have left Bitmex book empty. Meanwhile look at GOLD's performance.

Who the hell is rating assets based only on flash crash performance during market crash caused by pandemic panic sell?

After pandemic crash BTC hodler porfolio is now short 25%. Not bad for those who are not able to withdraw their fiat money at all!
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-egypt-banks/egypts-banks-told-to-limit-withdrawals-and-deposits-idUSKBN21G0UI
There will be more and more such news.

I'll write it again.

Safe-haven saves you during economic crisis. Nothing saves you during market crash.
Economic crisis is not equal market crash. During market crash people are panic selling. Economic crisis will last for 2 years causing bankruptcies of large corporations / countries. Hyperinflation of many fiat currencies. You may rate if bitcoin was safe-have in 2022 after it all ends (if it will end before 2022). Not based on market-crash performance.
Flash-crash is only a flash-crash. Does not mean anything.

And compering to average price fluctuation BTC was one of the best assets. To have same exposour to risk people trade BTC with f.e 1-5 leverage on SP500 10-500. Consider that. I think that average SP500 trader lost much more than BTC trader.

[el kaka22]

There is a difference between being a safe haven and being store of value. Bitcoin is still doing fine compared to other stuff and we are actually profiting at year to date price so that is showing what store of value bitcoin can be, however safe haven is something people talked about themselves and not something that was originally planned or even talked about by satoshi himself anywhere.

Long story short even gold dropped which is a millennium safe haven during periods like this, this wasn't some economical crash like 2008, this was an economical crash that was caused by pandemic. There is a difference between a mortgage crisis created by banks themselves that had nothing to do with regular people, to a level of crisis where people can't even go outside.

[dothebeats]

Do you know how was pumped BTC during last 3 months from 6.5k to 10k? look at the 50M. spoof orders on bitmex.. Try to do this in any regulated market .. know what would happen? jail

Which further proves this point: 

SP500 is a index of 500 biggest US stocks, was prevented from drops by circuit breakouts (at least 20), helped by helicopter money. BTC was on his own.

BTC is literally helpless from such orders that can bring it down to $0, but is also controlled from all sorts of trading practices that could make it valued a lot in a single night; susceptible to all forms of nefarious trading practices but still stood on its own despite everything around it crumbling to pieces. You are naive to think that spoofing isn't happening in regulated markets. It is happening, but most traders are good in hiding it that's why it's not being exposed.

[hatshepsut93]

Bitcoin is highly volatile, Bitcoin has low liquidity, add the two together and flash crashes are bound to happen - this isn't the first time and probably not the last. Yes, it is unpleasant to experience them as a hodler, especially if you're a newbie who sees an event like that for the first time, but it doesn't change anything fundamentally. The crash lived for only a few hours, so many people only now about it from looking at historical charts or reading the news. Nothing to be too worried about.

[Yaunfitda]

Why are we still talking though about the event on March 12?

We need to move on guys, the value of bitcoin didn't reach $0 and we have rebounded already. So what is the point of this thread? FUD? If you think that BTC is "inefficient in many aspects" then don't buy. You can also tell that to altcoins who have suffered a flash crash during that time.

[Tytanowy Janusz]

Bitcoin has low liquidity

Well I kinda disagree. Of course, it has lower liquidity than SP500 or forex but it has higher liquidity than most EU stocks. F.e Daily volume in

Wig20 (Poland Stock Exchange) - 100 000 000$
CAC 40 (Paris Stock Exchange) - 200 000 000$
IBEX 35 (Madrit Stock Exchange) - 430 000 000$

Bitcoin - 4 200 000 000$ (only binance futures and bitmex)

[adaseb]

I think what would of helped that day is if Bitmex had more than 1 period daily where it processes withdraws. Because at one point there was a $400-$500 spread between bitmex and spot exchanges.

You could buy on Bitmex for like $4000 and sell on Coinbase for $4500 and wait a day and receive the difference as profit. This was good because it filled those long liquidations by buying into those $10M walls and prevented BTC from falling further.But what you said was correct, there was only $12M in bids because why would anyone put in a buy order at $1000 when BTC is trading at $8000, seems like a waste of an order. Hence as time went on and bears noticed they were up like 50% in their short, they started to close their positions and helped eat those $10M walls and eventually they were all filled. It was a crazy day. Probably craziest trading day ever for me.

[ChiNgadOr]

Bitcoin has low liquidity

Well I kinda disagree. Of course, it has lower liquidity than SP500 or forex but it has higher liquidity than most EU stocks. F.e Daily volume in

Wig20 (Poland Stock Exchange) - 100 000 000$
CAC 40 (Paris Stock Exchange) - 200 000 000$
IBEX 35 (Madrit Stock Exchange) - 430 000 000$

Bitcoin - 4 200 000 000$ (only binance futures and bitmex)

Nice try... but only YOU believe this is real volume traded. Obviously superulrrahipermegafake

[pooya87]

bitcoin, which is supposedly uncorrelated to the other markets. It is supposed to be a safe haven in times of crisis (in fact this is what inspired its creation during the 2008 crisis),

bitcoin is still unrelated to any other market.
and it is still a safe haven but being a safe haven has never meant stable price. it is all about when you have bitcoin nobody can easily take it away from you, unlike fiat and all other assets. and it is always going to remain free of any kind of centralization such as banks and their corruption,... or it will cease to exist.

which was supposed to reach new highs

if someone promised you this they were scamming you.
with that said, bitcoin has gained over 250% over the past year. if you are expecting a new ATH this soon then you are in the wrong.

and 1 Million

you mean the scammer called McAfee who were only mentioning bitcoin to scam newbies with ICO ads and pump and dumps?

The reality is quite different: the asset fell 65% in a single session,

bitcoin is a currency not an asset. and it only fell 40% and in one day not in "single session"!

With a market sale of 12 million dollars, bitcoin would have reached a value close to 0$.

that is where you are wrong. you are ignoring the fact that the lower the price goes the more people start buying it. majority of bitcoin investors do not trust exchanges at all. this means they do not keep anything on exchanges[1] so they have to deposit when the dumps happen and they buy more bitcoin then.

[1] this is the reason why (1) we see such big dumps in first place since the order books are not packed and it can easily be manipulated (2) why we see a lot of on chain transactions each time there is a dump (people cashing out what they bought to their cold storage).

[Tytanowy Janusz]

Nice try... but only YOU believe this is real volume traded. Obviously superulrrahipermegafake

BTC volume reported by CMC is equal to 40 bil $. I've posted 4 bil$ not because I'm too stupid to check what's total trading volume for bitcoin. It's because I know that 90% of it is fake. 4 Bil $ from binance futures and bitmex is very close to real, total BTC trading volume (including bitfinex, kraken, huobi and all other shitty exchange) in my opinion.

[solosequenosenada]

Don't waste your time with this little prick, he's a troll from the Spanish section of the forum. Unfortunately I have the "pleasure" of suffering his incongruities and arguments full of fallacies, because he is good at writing but reading is not for him.
It is a waste of time to argue with this kind of humans, they will never change their ideas...

If you have any doubt what kind of sick person he is, you just have to take a look at his first thousands of comments, all shit ICOs propaganda and now he comes to talk about Bitcoin and not for good, as you would expect 

[2alt]

ALMOST "reach a value of 0$" for a millisecond on a single exchange that crashed during massive spam of trades. So what? Does that change anything for you how low flash-crash went? It's only flash crash. Currently, SP500 is -17% from before covid panic sell - btc is -25%!
SP500 is a index of 500 biggest US stocks, was prevented from drops by circuit breakouts (at least 20), helped by helicopter money. BTC was on his own.

link
"Traditional markets are in circuit breaker mode the majority of time;. They only trade occasionally." - BTC was exposed to panic sell for much longer.

But lets also compare average volatility. According to that BTC reacted more calmly to panic sell than most assets. Especially stocks.


link


link


Safe-haven saves you during economic crisis. Nothing saves you during market crash. Especially during whole world, all assets massive panic sell caused by pandemic.
Economic crisis is not equal market crash.
Flash-crash is only a flash-crash. Does not mean anything.

Ah, there are other people that understand whats happening in traditional markets. I was getting worried after reading a little here this morning.

What I wanted to add. We are only in the infancy of crypto. Watch when we come out of the other side of this. More and more exchanges are listing BTC and those printers running non stop printing money, well....a LOT will go into BTC come later this year.

Unrelated, but totally related. Gold too. While there is plenty out there, you cannot print more. You cannot print more BTC. Anything in limited quantities will go up after this crisis.

And while warren buffet has massive cash, its not sitting in the us dollar...