Bitcoin mixers

[Asoevjen]

What is the essence of bitcoin mixers? Does it really make sense to use them only to those who conduct illegal activities?

[1715328428]

1715328428

[1715328428]

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[owlcatz]

What is the essence of bitcoin mixers? Does it really make sense to use them only to those who conduct illegal activities?

Some people enjoy their privacy, and Bitcoin is no longer that private. 

[desticy]

It is far from necessary that you have to conduct any illegal activity in order to use Bitcoin mixers.
Given that all Bitcoin transactions are recorded on the blockchain, this makes it possible to track you using various tools, such as blockchain analysis.
In other words, finding out the exact primary address will not be a problem by going through the chain of records in blocks.

Who needs this at all?
On the one hand, why should anyone follow your money at all, on the other, there are such as the police, special services and criminal elements.
All of them, for one reason or another, may be interested in your money, and if you take into account the fact that using the blockchain analysis you can track your wallet and other wallets, you can create a template for your actions.

This is not a complete list of projects that produce blockchain analysis:
https://blockseer.com
https://scorechain.com/
https://walletexplorer.com

Using a Bitcoin mixer is perhaps the easiest and most legitimate way to make your transactions almost completely anonymous.
I say almost because there are some nuances in the work of the mixers themselves.

Bitcoin is not monitored by banks, has low fees and is almost anonymous.
Obviously, the criminal elements will use this method of transferring funds, and alas, we can not do anything about it. However, as mentioned above, mixers will be useful not only to crime.

[gentlemand]

Do you want every person you transact with to know your entire Bitcoin history? Because that's what they can do if you don't break the chain somewhere. You may also trip a company's terms and conditions and get told to go away such as sending them coins that were involved in gambling.

If you have the option of keeping your past private then there's nothing illegal about taking it.

[stompix]

Does it really make sense to use them only to those who conduct illegal activities?

Why are you not trying to see by yourself what mixers do?

Start by printing your bank statement, erase your name from it but leave all the transaction details that show how much you've paid and to what accounts and share it on the internet with everybody! Do you feel comfortable doing this?
If not, you've just understood that you need a mixer even without being a criminal, if yes....I'm happy for you!

[LeGaulois]

The endless debate of Bitcoin mixers and illegal stuff...

@OP
I can twist the question for you. What is the essence of the HSBC mixer? Does it really make sense to use it only to those who conduct illegal activities?


Privacy is a human right established in the universal declaration of human rights.  Why stop people from exercising their rights when they're not hurting anyone? Most people use a mixer to protect their privacy for whatever reasons they have.

On the other side, darknet users usually send their coins to centralized exchanges

[dkbit98]

I would say that best thing to use for your privacy is to use wallets like samourai, and NO it is not used for illegal activities.
Anyone can use them and it is legal.
Watch out for some fake mixer phishing websites

[tbct_mt2]

What is the essence of bitcoin mixers? Does it really make sense to use them only to those who conduct illegal activities?

They provides better privacy. Having better privacy for good reasons or bad reasons (illegal as you discussed) totally depends on each people. About mixers, not all mix services are good enough to provide you privacy, some of them do neither provide better privacy nor protect your money. They instead are scam services and can steal your money.

You can also use CoinJoin transaction to have better privacy.
- CoinJoin: Bitcoin privacy for the real world
- [Guide] Decent mixing methods

[pooya87]

~and Bitcoin is no longer that private. 

and why do you think that?
i don't see any changes in the level of privacy that bitcoin offers. it is as private and at the same time as transparent as it has ever been. if anything it is harder now to analyze the blockchain that there are so much more people using it compared to years before.

[gentlemand]

They provides better privacy. Having better privacy for good reasons or bad reasons (illegal as you discussed) totally depends on each people. About mixers, not all mix services are good enough to provide you privacy, some of them do neither provide better privacy nor protect your money. They instead are scam services and can steal your money.

You can also use CoinJoin transaction to have better privacy.
- CoinJoin: Bitcoin privacy for the real world
- [Guide] Decent mixing methods

Another thing you need to be conscious of is whether your mixed coins have the telltale signs of being mixed. Though a third party service won't know the origin of your coins, if they can clearly tell they have come from a mixed transaction then they might get arsey. Binance Singapore have been giving Wasabi coinjoined coins the boot because of that.

[Chlotide]

I guess news like this https://www.coindesk.com/us-doj-calls-bitcoin-mixing-a-crime-in-arrest-of-software-developer is where the FUD comes from.

BTC is a fungible coin, even tho "some experts" claim that some coins are tainted and should be worth less or nothing at all. As @gentlemand said even going so far as to reject them from their business.

I guess this whole anonymity concept scares state officials (because of some valid but mostly silly reasons imo) and also taint people that want their anonymity to be taken seriously.
FIAT is less transparent than crypto but at least they got used to it and want us to think they know how to keep tabs on most of our financial activities.

VPN and using Tor is just for hackers and scammers ? NO ! ...pretty much same thing

[NeuroticFish]

BTC is a fungible coin

This is incorrect. The fact that Bitcoin is traceable (under certain limits, especially if no mixers are involved) makes it not fungible, hence stories with wallets closed because of "unapproved" BTC transactions, see
So coinbase closed my account for gambling...
gEMINI CLOSED MY ACCOUNT WITH no EXPLANATION... WHY?

[Chlotide]

...claim that some coins are tainted and should be worth less or nothing at all. As @gentlemand said even going so far as to reject them from their business.

You are right, maybe I should rephrase to "should be fungible" instead.
That's what I was saying, that some businesses reject tainted coins (exchanges,casinos...  even some mixers. LOL)

Also (somehow) similar with FIAT. If you receive $100 that you know came from illicit activities (i.e organ trafficking, drug smuggle etc) you are obliged to turn them in. Tho in this case they have to prove you knew where they came from.

What can I say...we are living some interesting times! And really hope those 60+ year old law-makers who can't even open their yahoo mail without help will retire soon or will be replaced with someone who is more familiar with the subject and the crypto ecosystem

[tbct_mt2]

Another thing you need to be conscious of is whether your mixed coins have the telltale signs of being mixed. Though a third party service won't know the origin of your coins, if they can clearly tell they have come from a mixed transaction then they might get arsey. Binance Singapore have been giving Wasabi coinjoined coins the boot because of that.

Some people think that simply using mixer service will help them totally hide with perfect privacy and ignore steps that they should do. From the Guide and FAQ of Wasabi, they emphasize importance of steps before and after mixing. They tend to forget the steps after mixing and recombine mixed coins.
https://www.reddit.com/r/WasabiWallet/comments/avxbjy/combining_mixed_coins_privacy_megathread/

[Vod]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't using a mixing service the same as sending an encrypted email to the police proving you killed someone?    You are innocent only until computing improves.

Eventually, the police will crack that email; the same way a path through the mixer will prove you owned coins.  I'm not sure exactly how encryption methods work, but they have to be more difficult than recursively following a blockchain.  Any changes to your patterns now cannot affect the copy of the blockchain everyone already has;  the same way improving your encryption now cannot affect the confession email sent to the police in the past.

This goes for any blockchain.  Brute force and eventually quantum algorithms will expose transfers.

[witcher_sense]

BTC is a fungible coin

This is incorrect. The fact that Bitcoin is traceable (under certain limits, especially if no mixers are involved) makes it not fungible, hence stories with wallets closed because of "unapproved" BTC transactions, see
So coinbase closed my account for gambling...
gEMINI CLOSED MY ACCOUNT WITH no EXPLANATION... WHY?

This is also incorrect. Bitcoin is fungible coin within its network and it should be so only in own network, because it doesn't have value outside the blockchain. No matter how bitcoin could be named outside blockchain, the place where consensus rules are important and are being followed, it continues to work as neutral network that doesn't care whether a person a criminal or not. More importantly, it's a permissionless network, everyone can participate and make transacions with any coin, bitcoin will be equal to another bitcoin. By giving control of your private keys to the intermediaries, you are losing your right to participate in the network on permissionless level. You are losing your ability to transact freely and can't decide by yourself what coins you want to be spended. In this case, bitcoin might become non fungible coin for you, because you're outside the network and its consensus rules.

[Asoevjen]

Thanks everyone for the answers.
But after all, Bitcoin mixers are a third party, like exchanges, where are the guarantees that they will not rob me?

[TryNinja]

Thanks everyone for the answers.
But after all, Bitcoin mixers are a third party, like exchanges, where are the guarantees that they will not rob me?

If you are using a centralized mixer, there are no guarantees. You have to trust and try your luck for them to not scam you. That's why you want to minimize the chances of getting scammed - if you ever need/want to use a centralized mixer - by using a trusted mixer.

You can also just use CoinJoin to mix your coins, since they are, AFAIK, trustless and even got recommended by theymos, through Wasabi wallet, in this post.

~

That's the theory. He was talking about the real world, where even using a decentralized system can get you busted in the real life by centralized organizations and govs. For them, that doesn't matter. If you receive illegal coins, you may end up in jail. Bitcoin being a permissionless network or not.

[desticy]

Thanks everyone for the answers.
But after all, Bitcoin mixers are a third party, like exchanges, where are the guarantees that they will not rob me?

No one gives you any guarantees as in the weaker exchange. But, mixers are a business depending on whether people will use their services or not.
Obviously, stealing coins from someone else will pop up and leave a shadow on the mixer’s reputation. Therefore, you should choose only trusted and time-tested mixers.

Here are a few of them:
/en/][banned mixer]
Bitcloak
Bitblender
Chipmixer

2020 List Bitcoin Mixers Bitcoin Tumblers Websites

Or, as advised above, you can use the CoinJoin method. Its meaning is to unite several transactions in one pool. Note that if you use this method, the transaction trace may not be completely deleted.

The above mixers are not a recommendation! In any case, you need to conduct your own analysis and make a choice.
Pay attention to the reputation of each individual mixer, do not neglect to read reviews.

ps:thanks TryNinja and DdmrDdmr

[TryNinja]

Therefore, you should choose only trusted and time-tested mixers.

Here are a few of them:
/en/][banned mixer]
Bitcloak
Bitblender
Chipmixer

From where did you assume [banned mixer] is "trusted and time-tested"? Have you at least used them before?

It also seems that they have been banned from the forum, for some reason: [banned mixer]

edit: and Bitblender...