this is why the world needs bitcoin

[mocacinno]

Not an important discussion, but i need to vent  

Sooo... Prepare for a long story that has nothing to do with bitcoin, EXCEPT the conclusion.

My wife has a chronic disease that results in (amongst other things) a lot of pain. At the advice of our MD, she started taking CBD oil drops (which are legal in my country).
These drops work, but they cost like 25€/10 ml 3% CBD drops. You can get cheaper brands, but they taste like crap.

So, instead of paying a ludicrous amount to a shop, i decided to look around online, and i found a reseller that asked a reasonable price for cannabis seeds from a landrace that was tested and has >9% CBD and <0.1% THC. I say reasonable price, but if i would have been a reseller, i could have bought a full kilo of seeds for about 3 times more than he's asking for 20 measly seeds... But hey, that's economics right?

I bought some seeds from him. While checking out, there was an option to use bitcoin OR use a credit card. Because i'm convinced the btc price will go up (so hodling is a good strategy) AND because i didn't trust the seller 100%, i decided to go for a creditcard payment (so i didn't have to start a discussion with the vendor wether or not he got payed... CC's are older, these guys have better knowledge on how to verify payments in FIAT, so i decided to make his life easyer).

Payed him right away. Waited 4 days, status still "pending". Contacted the bloke via email... Got a snubby mail back where the guy basically started making fun of me: did i really think an international (within the EU, within SEPA) wiretransfer would be completed in 4 freaking days? Stupid me...
It took 8 freaking days to transfer my hard-earned money from my bank account to a bank account of a guy that still lives within driving distance... That's right, i can get in my car early in the morning and actually drive to this guy and arrive before nightfall.
The bank charges me allmost 3€/month plus a lot of additional costs, and they take more than a full week to do an electronic transfer. Bloody hell, what are they doing... Do they still write all transactions for foreign banks on a floppydisk and drive them around by horse and carriage?

After 8 days, the seller finally admitted he got my money, but at that time it was thursday, and he only sends items on monday and wednesday.
My seeds got shipped on the 20th, but the post is slooooow as hell.
In a little while, i'll have missed the planting window.

If i would have used bitcoin as a payment system, i would have won 8 freaking days. I would have payed the bloke, and 1 hour later he would have had a funding transaction that was confirmed several times, and he could have sent me the stuff i bought.
I don't like banks.

[mk4]

Unfortunately when most people critique bitcoin, they only mostly see those PayPal and local credit/debit card transactions, completely ignoring wire transfer and cross-border transactions in general; which is where layer1 transactions can definitely shine despite the non-instantaneous transactions.

Have you heard about the What Bitcoin Did podcast? Peter McCormack(the podcast host) has a slightly similar story. He also used bitcoin to buy cannabis oil for his mom but in his case he bought it on the darknet markets due to it being illegal in his city/country(if I remember correctly).

[mocacinno]

Unfortunately when most people critique bitcoin, they only mostly see those PayPal and local credit/debit card transactions, completely ignoring wire transfer and cross-border transactions in general; which is where layer1 transactions can definitely shine despite the non-instantaneous transactions.

Have you heard about the What Bitcoin Did podcast? Peter McCormack(the podcast host) has a slightly similar story. He also used bitcoin to buy cannabis oil for his mom but in his case he bought it on the darknet markets due to it being illegal in his city/country(if I remember correctly).

I haven't heared the podcast (yet), i'm happy i don't have to go to the darknet to buy something that actually helps my wife tough. I'm not a pothead, eventough i did smoke some weed when i was (much) younger... But medicine is medicine. This plant contains allmost no THC, the amounts of THC you'd ingest are lower than if you'd sit in a room with somebody smoking a joint for just a couple of minutes.
My wife takes a cocktail of painkillers and NSAID's, and with CBD she's able to use less of the other drugs... Studies have shown CBD to be safer than most of the other things she takes, and it works... So why not. I'd imagine i'd also go to the darknet if this stuff was illegal in my country.

If these seeds actually arrive, and they sprout allright, next year i'll buy seeds from this bloke using crypto as a payment, and i'll do so on friday so he can send my package on monday. You live and learn... Stay away from international wire transfers and use crypto if it's available and you trust the seller

[figmentofmyass]

After 8 days, the seller finally admitted he got my money, but at that time it was thursday, and he only sends items on monday and wednesday.
My seeds got shipped on the 20th, but the post is slooooow as hell.
In a little while, i'll have missed the planting window.

If i would have used bitcoin as a payment system, i would have won 8 freaking days. I would have payed the bloke, and 1 hour later he would have had a funding transaction that was confirmed several times, and he could have sent me the stuff i bought.
I don't like banks.

i don't blame ya for choosing a reversible method. there's been a lot of shady seed resellers over the years. you'd be singing a different tune if you sent coins and then he disappeared.

the only seed distributor i trust anymore is seedsman. as long as they are in business, i won't go anywhere else. they take bitcoin and paying with bitcoin also yields 15-25% discounts and extra freebies. free shipping in europe. very effecting stealth packaging.

if you're ever worried about missing the planting window, look into autoflowers. you'll be looking at full flowers 60 days from seed. stock is low at seedsman right now because of the lockdown but they still have a couple 30:1 cbd:thc auto-fem strains if you're curious: https://www.seedsman.com/en/cannabis-seeds/variety/high-cbd/filter/seeds_flowering_type-autoflowering

just some food for thought.

[NeuroticFish]

Bank transfers are expensive and painfully slow. Whenever I can I avoid them. But credit card payments should not be slow. Or at least not that slow. I do SEPA payments in less than 2 working days (that's the fastest international payments I experienced). Quite a shame   There may be somethings else you may have been missing in all this story. I don't know...   Maybe he was was out of stock and blamed the banks?

No matter Bitcoin is rising, you could have bought Bitcoin with credit card at spot price (+ about 5%, probably). Obviously, next time you know. But I also agree with the post about reversible payments.

[ife2020]

Your story is right and i believe there are several of such situations that happens daily or weekly.
but i think instead of waiting for the government all the time; businesses can take up the usage of bitcoin as a mode of payment as long as it is an international transaction, so instead of waiting for 3-5 days, you Wait for less than 5 minutes and boon payment arrives

Bitcoin adoption will grow more as the needs amongst individuals and businesses increases across borders.

[Lucius]

I practically threw out all the possible payments that in any way involve banks and cards, for the reasons stated in the OP and because the banks have become too demanding regarding their clients' private lives. I have nothing against the rules and normal regulations, but when someone starts treating me like a criminal because I want to have a bank account, then I have to draw a line here and say that I will not tolerate that anymore.

Of course, it is not possible to live just by paying with BTC, so sometimes I need to use PayPal which from the perspective of the customer represents a very good choice, has excellent protection and is extremely fast. However, at every opportunity I use BTC with trusted local merchants, and that's always my primary payment method.

Waiting 8 days for someone to receive your payment is nowadays an almost unimaginable story, but as we can see it is something that is very realistic.

[mocacinno]

Thanks for the feedback guys, and especially about the seedsman tip... At the moment, i'm waiting for seeds from a strain called kompotli, it's flowers should have less than 0.2% THC and up to 25% CBD (altough that's really the maximum, most fenotypes should have around 9%). The <0.2% THC was very important for us, since my wife does not want to be faced with the effects of THC, nor does she want to risk getting pulled over by the police and lose her drivers licence (driving under the influence of THC is illegal, you can lose your drivers licence if you get caught).

If i was informed correctly, the seeds should remain viable for 2 years in my fridge and up to 5 years in my freezer, so i hope i'm all set for the next couple of years... I have enough to plant 7 seeds/year for the next 3 years, ~50% female, 1 or 2 that die, so i should have at least 1 or 2 female plants/year, and i can put most of the flowers in the freezer for up to 5 years anyways.

I have no idear if the seller used the international transfer as an excuse and he was actually out of stock, but the main point is that even if he did this, it was still because of the FIAT transfer. If i would have used crypto, he had no option to hide behind the excuse he did not yet receive my money, since i could have proved  he received my funds without a shadow of a doubt.
I must say that i did not like the seller's attitude at all, he was rather smug and almost made fun of my question, but he was the only one with reasonable trustpilot reviews, selling this particular strain for a decent price to an enduser in the EU while having them on stock to.

[mk4]

i'm happy i don't have to go to the darknet to buy something that actually helps my wife tough.

Is it illegal to buy from the darknet markets even though the product you're planning on buying is legal in your country in the first place? If that certain seller was the only one with decent trustpilot reviews and the experience was crap, I'd probably think about trying to buy through darknet. Though I really don't know how risky it is in terms of law so..

[mocacinno]

i'm happy i don't have to go to the darknet to buy something that actually helps my wife tough.

Is it illegal to buy from the darknet markets even though the product you're planning on buying is legal in your country in the first place? If that certain seller was the only one with decent trustpilot reviews and the experience was crap, I'd probably think about trying to buy through darknet. Though I really don't know how risky it is in terms of law so..

I don't think it's illegal to buy something on the darknet, as long as the product itself is legal both in the seller's and the buyer's country. However, the odds of the seller actually having a legit business, and him/her paying taxes on the product he/she is selling is small.

The problem was that i did my homework, and i wanted one specific kind of hempseed: a seed that grew well in my climate, was relatively cheap, was relatively resistant to fungi and rot and that had both <0.2% THC and a high percentage of CBD. I ended up with one specific "brand" of hempseed, and for that specific "brand" i only found a handfull of sellers.

Some of these sellers no longer had the product on stock, some of the sellers only did B2B (business to business) sales, some had very poor trustpilot reviews... So i basically ended up with 1 seller that had the seeds on stock, sold to private persons, had a reasonable price and a reasonable trustpilot review.
I really did not like talking to him. So far, i've payed him allmost 2 weeks ago, and i still don't have the seeds in hand either,... And like i said before: he's not living on the other side of the planet, if i get in my car tomorrow morning i can be at his shop's door before nightfall. I do plan on leaving him a review on trustpilot, and it'll most likely won't be all that positive. However, if i do finally get the seeds in hand, it'll probably be 2 or 3 stars. If i don't get the product it'll be the minimum amount (i think that's 1 star).
I don't think the client is king, a client can be a pain in th *ss and a seller doens't have to bend over backwards whenever a client asks something completely absurd... However, a client is still a client, and a basic notion of professionality on the seller's side is the least i'd expect, especially if a client inquires about a payment that has been made 4 days ago and still doesn't registers.

[20kevin20]

I'm sorry to hear about your wife's chronic disease and that you had to lose so much freakin' time for a payment. Yes, wire transfers are crap with an unnecessary commission that shouldn't exist, considering how much important time they steal.

I usually do the comparison between Bitcoin and PayPal (or card payments) like mk4 said, and I always miss the fact that bank wire is an option and takes hell of a time to complete. You know what's amazing? How the banking system is centralized, which should've meant the transfers have to be all instant and easier to do than Bitcoin's - centralized ones are supposed to be created in order to attract users, right? But the situation apparently is exactly the opposite.

[Debonaire217]

I'm sorry to hear about your wife's chronic disease and that you had to lose so much freakin' time for a payment. Yes, wire transfers are crap with an unnecessary commission that shouldn't exist, considering how much important time they steal.

Wire transfers are quite old I think, we have various technologies today, bitcoin one of it, but I am just quite curious, the dealer is quite near, and if you pay through wire transfer and took more than a week, I think withdrawing the money in cash is quite faster. Though, it isn't still a better way to consider knowing bank transfer is more convenient, I cannot also blame you because I think of bitcoin the same as how thought about its market price, maybe moving forward, we just need to learn the lesson there. In some instance, regardless of the price of it, if we're in an emergency situation, take advantage of our bitcoin and don't regret it.

[Mulann2]

I think the keyword here is "trust" if you trust the seller, but in your case you didn't trust the seller enough to use btc which may have been the best or worst option for, if you had gone ahead to buy with btc and the seller turn out to be entrusted, the story would have been different now,
I think you choose security even though the procedure and time to confirm payment is way longer than using btc.

[kryptqnick]

i'm happy i don't have to go to the darknet to buy something that actually helps my wife tough.

Is it illegal to buy from the darknet markets even though the product you're planning on buying is legal in your country in the first place? If that certain seller was the only one with decent trustpilot reviews and the experience was crap, I'd probably think about trying to buy through darknet. Though I really don't know how risky it is in terms of law so..

What I thought about when reading the story was also darknet markets since, as far as I know, they tend to have a reputation thing, and thus you can be pretty sure you won't get scammed and everything will go smoothly. However, I am pretty sure it's illegal to use it anywhere because of tax evasion, to say the least. So if the stuff you're buying is legal, it still doesn't ensure the legality of the transaction, although you are probably not likely to get in trouble, I don't know. In my country using marijuana for medical purposes is still illegal, so I wouldn't know.
As for the transfers, they are indeed unbelievably expensive and take a long time, I had to deal with them a couple of years ago and for a total of $2k or something, I paid more than $100 in fees (my bank account was non-EU and I had to send money to an EU-based account). It's really sad that you won't be able to use the seeds to help your wife anytime soon.

[Ryker1]

Well, sorry to hear that bro I assumed that you need to spend more money on that. In my country cannabis is also not legal. Thanks to God I haven't gone through your experience but, --I cannot blame you for using a credit card to purchase this for your loved one thinking that it could provide you a faster transaction to pay. Most of the time fund transfer or online banking nowadays could really take time before it will be completed. Using bitcoin to trade for something if it is possible could really expedite your transaction because it is decentralized. It is good for that payment transaction is Bitcoin.

[Sanugarid]

I think the keyword here is "trust" if you trust the seller, but in your case you didn't trust the seller enough to use btc which may have been the best or worst option for, if you had gone ahead to buy with btc and the seller turn out to be entrusted, the story would have been different now,

Yeah I do think so, it's not the seller that you trusted instead the bank, why? because you thought that they will take care of your money, and if the seller does not follow with your exchanged words then you can easily get it back through your bank. I've also see that you trusted the bitcoin, why? because you hold it instead of spending because you think that the price will increase any time. I'm sorry for a lot of day that you have missed, suppose to be there should already a plant in growing phase but that's your dilemma between bank and bitcoin.

I think you choose security even though the procedure and time to confirm payment is way longer than using btc.

Indeed, he could've paid using bitcoin for a quicker transaction..

[Arkann]

I think the keyword here is "trust" if you trust the seller, but in your case you didn't trust the seller enough to use btc which may have been the best or worst option for, if you had gone ahead to buy with btc and the seller turn out to be entrusted, the story would have been different now,

Yeah I do think so, it's not the seller that you trusted instead the bank, why? because you thought that they will take care of your money, and if the seller does not follow with your exchanged words then you can easily get it back through your bank. I've also see that you trusted the bitcoin, why? because you hold it instead of spending because you think that the price will increase any time. I'm sorry for a lot of day that you have missed, suppose to be there should already a plant in growing phase but that's your dilemma between bank and bitcoin.

I believe that the time will come when the dilemma of choosing between a bank or Bitcoin will disappear by itself.  The banking system is trying to keep up to date and uses new technologies for its development and increasing its prospects in the future.  I understand this situation a little differently, because for me Bitcoin is a valuable asset, and the banking system is a tool for managing, storing or multiplying a valuable asset.  Thus, I believe that in the near future, banks will fully provide their users with bitcoin storage services, and will also issue loans and create deposits in cryptocurrencies.

[Wexnident]

Banks were a thing cause of the security guarantee they have after all. Mostly because it's an official organization backing it and you can legitimately see their companies everywhere which is probably what BTC losses out. Yes, there are escrow services out there, but there are still possibilities of you losing out, and not anyone knows how to perform escrow. Still, banks have such bad services right now cause of the lack of improvement they made these days cause they think they are pretty much at the top and wouldn't really be replaced by anything. Though they do gradually improve their systems, it is still quite lacking with the expectations of consumers imo.

Glad the seller was trusted though. One thing hard to find in sellers that accept crypto are trusted ones after all.

[pixie85]

Great post OP and you're right. Your transfer took longer than usual but even in most favourable circumstances it takes 3 work days to transfer money abroad. If you do it on thursday the seller is going to get money on monday and ship everything on tuesday when with Bitcoin he'd have it in 20 minutes because most transactions get confirmed in the first 2 blocks.

Nowadays when you're offered 2% a year with 2 or 3% inflation there's no point in using a bank. For me it was never a matter of convenience more of getting a few percent on my savings. It used to be 6% about 10 years ago. Now that it's down to nothing I'm out.

[figmentofmyass]

Thanks for the feedback guys, and especially about the seedsman tip... At the moment, i'm waiting for seeds from a strain called kompotli, it's flowers should have less than 0.2% THC and up to 25% CBD (altough that's really the maximum, most fenotypes should have around 9%). The <0.2% THC was very important for us, since my wife does not want to be faced with the effects of THC, nor does she want to risk getting pulled over by the police and lose her drivers licence (driving under the influence of THC is illegal, you can lose your drivers licence if you get caught).

If i was informed correctly, the seeds should remain viable for 2 years in my fridge and up to 5 years in my freezer, so i hope i'm all set for the next couple of years... I have enough to plant 7 seeds/year for the next 3 years, ~50% female, 1 or 2 that die, so i should have at least 1 or 2 female plants/year, and i can put most of the flowers in the freezer for up to 5 years anyways.

seeds should be viable a lot longer than that. i've grown 5-10 year old seeds outta the fridge and failure rate is no higher than fresh seeds.

re the 0.2%, that's understandable. under normal (non pandemic) circumstances, seedsman carries lots of < 0.2% THC strains, one of which is still available now. keep them in mind in case this goes awry for you---you may need the shortened grow cycle of an autoflower. i also recommend feminized and autoflower for beginners anyway---no worrying about male vs female (or paying for males) or veg cycle vs flowering cycle. and i hate depending on one strain/brand i haven't run before, usually leads to disappointment. i've got 6 strains going, more coming when i start chopping down this year's early girls.

sourcing industrial hemp directly for infusing your own cbd drops is one other idea. it's required to have similar THC levels to what you're looking for and cooking/infusing is actually pretty easy to do. i'm not sure what the retail market is like on the other side of the atlantic.

anyway, good luck on your grow. it's such an exciting time of year.