FPPS or PPS Pool with instant same day payout (Recommendation)

[jakaba]

I am looking for a bitcoin pool with FPPS or PPS reward system that will allow me to receive mined Bitcoins as soon as the minimum payout amount is reached. I want to exchange my mined coins to FIAT as quickly as possible. Low pool fees are obviously very a big plus as well.

I have been mining on BTC.com for a while, but there I need to wait 48hours to receive my mined coins for "security reasons".  

Any suggestions are appreciated

[1715119620]

1715119620

[Biffa]

viabtc or slush

[philipma1957]

viabtc or slush

viabtc allows daily payouts on pps+

you can set as low as  0.001 btc

that is about 70th worth of gear.

[jakaba]

Slushpool is no option for me as they do not offer FPPS or PPS. viabtc may be an option, but the high pool fee of 4% seem a little too high for me. Also online reviews are not too positive.  

Anyway thank you for your suggestions!

Anybody else know any alternative that matches my criteria?

[mikeywith]

Slushpool is no option for me as they do not offer FPPS or PPS. viabtc may be an option, but the high pool fee of 4% seem a little too high for me. Also online reviews are not too positive.  

4% is just about the normal rate for PPS+ / FPPS , the only known pool that offers less than that is F2pool which has a fee of 2.5% but the downside is that the minimum payout is 5 times higher which is 0.005BTC so you will need about 315TH to get paid daily, say you have 100TH then you will only get paid about every 3 days if you have a single S9 you will have to wait for 22days (all numbers are approximate based on current difficulty), if you want the smaller threshold then you will have to pay 4% and mine at Viabtc.

[NovaBLock.com]

Hi!

NovaBlock is a North American mining pool that offered NovaPPS+ payouts(similar to FPPS). We can offer you lower rates than Slushpool and also provide the consistency that you are looking for.

Please PM and for further details. I would like to learn a little more about you and then I can provide an invitation code thst would reduce your pool fees.

Hope you join us at NovaBlock!

[jakaba]

I can't really seem to find any information about viabtc offering FPPS, only PPS and PPLNS.
F2pool on the other hand seems like a good alternative. 315TH or more should be doable for me looking forward.
I will take a loot at novablock after the weekend, though I currently would prefer joining a rather large pool.

Furthermore I think I may have misunderstood the 48 hour warning from BTC.com
Their support told me that this only applies when a payout wallet is changed. If this is true I will gladly stay with them (unless anybody can give me good arguments why I shouldn't?)

Thanks to all of you for your further suggestions!

[Biffa]

This might help: https://miningpoolstats.stream/bitcoin

[Artemis3]

Slushpool is no option for me as they do not offer FPPS or PPS. viabtc may be an option, but the high pool fee of 4% seem a little too high for me. Also online reviews are not too positive.  

Anyway thank you for your suggestions!

Anybody else know any alternative that matches my criteria?

With about 6 Exa hashes per second, Slush finds +10 blocks a day, so they do more than daily payments. And the fee is 2%, most PPS pools charge 4% due to being a risky model where they have to act like a bank for you. Also it might matter to some that its not in China but in the Czech Republic.

People doing online reviews often have biased interests. You should test each pool by yourself, remember to give it several days so it averages.

[NovaBLock.com]

I can't really seem to find any information about viabtc offering FPPS, only PPS and PPLNS.
F2pool on the other hand seems like a good alternative. 315TH or more should be doable for me looking forward.
I will take a loot at novablock after the weekend, though I currently would prefer joining a rather large pool.

Furthermore I think I may have misunderstood the 48 hour warning from BTC.com
Their support told me that this only applies when a payout wallet is changed. If this is true I will gladly stay with them (unless anybody can give me good arguments why I shouldn't?)

Thanks to all of you for your further suggestions!

If you are joining a pool paying FPPS/PPS+, there shouldn’t be a need to join a larger pool since they will pay you based on theoretical amounts of blocks they should be finding each day.

Since establishment in August 2019 we have been able to grow to 1.73 EH and hope to grow larger, we would love for you to be a part of this.

PM is always open to people interested in joining.

[mikeywith]

I can't really seem to find any information about viabtc offering FPPS, only PPS and PPLNS.

Viabtc offers PPS+ which is the exact same as FPPS, ignoring which order of letters makes the most sense, they both mean you get paid per share and miners (you) keep the fees, keep in mind that most pools if I am not mistaken (including Viabtc) pay the fees in PPLNS and not PPS, but the block reward itself is paid in PPS structure if anything remains unclear google or ask.

With about 6 Exa hashes per second, Slush finds +10 blocks a day, so they do more than daily payments.

Some people like myself look for PPS pools, not for the daily payouts alone, internet, and power stability are huge factors in determining what payment method one should use, I have used Slushpools with a few gears I had in a place with stable internet and electricity and I can safely assume it's one of the best if not the best PPLNS pool out there.

Edit: Slush pool uses a modified version of PPLNS, it's not like most other pools, but it's more PPLNS than PPS.

[jakaba]

This might help: https://miningpoolstats.stream/bitcoin

This reference is very helpful, thank you!

[...]

As I will be mining using 4G and varying electricity I cannot go for anything else than pay per share reward systems. Thank you for your input!

[NovaBLock.com]

[...]

I would like to add a slight clarification.

PPS+ and FPPS are not exactly the same.

PPS+ means that the block reward will be paid theoretically but the transaction fee will only be paid when they find a block. This also means that your rewards will vary slightly as the transaction fee will differ between each block.

For FPPS it will pay the block reward AND the transaction fee theoretically. How each pool calculates the “theoretical” transaction fee will differ. At NovaBlock, we take the average over the past 24 hour period to ensure it is fair.

This is why you could find some discrepancies between earnings in pools everyday.

[mikeywith]

For FPPS it will pay the block reward AND the transaction fee theoretically. How each pool calculates the “theoretical” transaction fee will differ. At NovaBlock, we take the average over the past 24 hour period to ensure it is fair.

I stand corrected, there is indeed a difference, but given the fact that transactions fees are the way too tiny in respect to the block reward, getting the transactions fees in PPS or PPLNS makes a little to no difference, especially when mining with large pools that actually find blocks, if however, you mine with a small pool that offers PPS then yes maybe you want to make sure it's FPPS and not PPS+.

Thanks for the clarification.

[DaveF]

I stand corrected, there is indeed a difference, but given the fact that transactions fees are the way too tiny in respect to the block reward, getting the transactions fees in PPS or PPLNS makes a little to no difference, especially when mining with large pools that actually find blocks, if however, you mine with a small pool that offers PPS then yes maybe you want to make sure it's FPPS and not PPS+.

Thanks for the clarification.

Just a minor comment to this. After the latest 1/2ing it does make more of a difference. Especially after last week when fees were very high. It's going be happening more and more with fee spikes where yes PPS and it's variations are going to work out much better then small pools that are doing PPLNS and all the other methods.

Would be an interesting math problem [that is way above my ability] to see how someplace like VIA with it's high fees would compare to some PPLNS pool that only finds a block or 2 a month  / week if they miss the big fee blocks. Not that they miss blocks or are below a normal point on the luck curve but, if instead of getting 2.1BTC or 1.8BTC in fees they only get .9BTC or 1.3BTC at what point does the risk become so high that PPS just works better.

Stay safe.

-Dave

[kano]

When a pplns pool (other than antpool) that finds multiple blocks each diff change, charges a 1% fee, it means that the pool keeps a total of 1% of all the block rewards for the found blocks, thus miners get 99% of the total block rewards (including txns fees) - which is higher than any PPS/FPPS/PPS+ pool.

I think you misunderstand how PPLNS works.

[mikeywith]

A very interesting point, Loyce had scraped all the blockchain data needed to conduct such a study, I have the tools and skills to do what you want, the problem is I can't seem to figure out a perfect and fair way of doing so.

This kind of study could probably work only by comparing two pools and not the whole PPLNS vs PPS pools, another problem would be the fact that some pools are PPS+ while the others are FPPS, where the former pays the block fees in PPS while the latter pays it in PPLNS so the profit from the transaction is subject to the pool ability to find blocks in the first place as Novepool has explained - if someone knows how one would EXACTLY go about all these factors I would be willing to conduct the study.

Although based on my own experience which can't be used as evidence since many factors could have affected it, I made more BTC mining on a PPS+ pool despite paying a larger fee, it has been about 2 years since I moved nearly all of my hashrate and the gears I manage on PPS+ pools (currently testing Binance pool for one of my clients), before moving to PPS I divided my hashrate power between PPLNS and PPS+ pools and IIRC in the course of 4-6 months PPS+ was the better option, but again, many factors could have contributed to the results, and for the record, the reason I moved to PPS was not this tiny little experimental I had.

PPLNS pool that only finds a block or 2 a month  / week if they miss the big fee blocks

What seems to be easy to guess is that PPLNS pool with small hashrate that finds a block once in a blue moon will be the less profitable compared to large PPLNS pools (pool fees ignored), since the fees reward spikes only last for a few days or weeks at best, those small pools's chances of hitting a block during that short period of time are slim, while large pools will most certainly manage to hit a few blocks with handsome fee rewards.

[DaveF]

When a pplns pool (other than antpool) that finds multiple blocks each diff change, charges a 1% fee, it means that the pool keeps a total of 1% of all the block rewards for the found blocks, thus miners get 99% of the total block rewards (including txns fees) - which is higher than any PPS/FPPS/PPS+ pool.

I think you misunderstand how PPLNS works.

Since you chimed in. Lets use your pool as an example (was thinking more just for theory but)......

Bob is mining on some FPPS pool that has a 3% fee. Alice is mining on your pool with a .9% fee (which is a small pool as I specified above).

Fees are high in relation to block rewards now. They were even higher last week. This week they dropped and there might have even been a few blocks that were not full. Even if they were not full instead of 100sat /vb the transactions were clearing with 5 sat/ vb.

So all other things being equal. Bob is happily mining away with his 500TH, Alice is happily mining away with her 500TH. In the olden days Alice, *should* be making more then Bob.

But, it's 2020 things are different then they used to be. A bare block is only worth 6.25BTC so fees make a big difference. The block you mined last week had 2BTC in fees.

That is close to 1/3 of a block.

How much could the potential loss be for Alice if a pool such as yours, having perfect 100% luck getting 1 block a month instead of hitting the 2BTC fee blocks hits a string of 1BTC fee blocks.

On the same note for NOW Alice mining on your pool could be having a much better month then Bob if you get very lucky and find more blocks then average.

It's going to be a larger and larger issue for smaller pools as the time goes on. If you get a bunch of blocks that still have good "block finding luck" but bad "large fees luck".

As I said it's an interesting math problem (that is outside my ability to figure out, I barely got out of my statistics class with a B- 30 years ago). Yes I understand it's pure luck as to the fees that are out there in the mempool when you find a block. Much like finding a block is also luck based. That does not help Alice pay her electric bill. Bob knows more or less what he is going to make.

Stay safe.

-Dave

edit: mikeywith posted above while I was typing this, kind of said what I was trying to say better :-)

[philipma1957]

Yeah since the jump.
let me double check this.

So you now have two risk factors.

normal luck.
fee luck.

the pps+ fee always pays. the 105 to 116% fees.

you never miss them not once.

day after day.

a six block a year pool now needs to hit those six fees during high fees times.

Fortunately since the 1/2 ing
kano pool is a lucky pool.

they hit a 8.3 block paid about 8.217

which is over 125% payout.

8.217/6.25 =  131%

in fact kano.is is god like since the 1/2 ing.

we have made 2008 blocks since 1/2 ing.

[Biffa]

Also on a small pool when a block is found you get a much larger slice of the reward.

It's always been the case that if you need a constant drip drip of regular daily/weekly/monthly income then a payment system that delivers that is going to right for you. Over longer periods of time, however you will make more on a pplns pool, luck being equal.

However, once the pool gets small enough that it's not hitting at least one block per diff change then it becomes very hard to stay the distance, although it can be very satisfying to do so if the small pool has a very lucky sting of fast blocks.

It's not like the bigger pools have been that lucky lately either, a quick glance at slush, viabtc and antpool show varying degrees of luck, and it's all luck, finding a block, getting a block with large transaction fees.

Some pools also hit you with fees two ways. E.g. viabtc's PPS+  charges a 4% PPS fee on the block reward and a 2% PPLNS fee on the transaction fee reward.

All pools are subject to the following:

So here's a table of Bitcoin block finding probabilites:

Code:

Difficulty	CDF	Probability Above
50%	0.3934693403	1 in 1.6
100%	0.6321205588	1 in 2.7
200%	0.8646647168	1 in 7.4
300%	0.9502129316	1 in 20.1
400%	0.9816843611	1 in 54.6
500%	0.9932620530	1 in 148.4
600%	0.9975212478	1 in 403.4
666%	0.9987188536	1 in 780.6
700%	0.9990881180	1 in 1096.6
800%	0.9996645374	1 in 2981.0
900%	0.9998765902	1 in 8103.1
1000%	0.9999546001	1 in 22026.5
1400%	0.9999991685	1 in 1202604.3

Meaning that, for example, there is a chance of hitting a 300% block 1 out of every 20 block found.

Kano pool although it felt like forever between  the last block 5 months ago and the most recent block, it wasn't even 300% and the expected number of blocks over that period of time was somewhere between 10 and 15 depending on difficulty and pool hash rate.