To those waiting for the COVID-19 vaccine..

[20kevin20]

Coronavirus. Let's jump straight to the facts: authorities did know about it^[1][2] way before we did. There never existed a successful coronavirus vaccine^{(I don't think I need sources for this one)}. In fact, immunization with SARS vaccines led to a pretty ugly result on challenge with the virus^[3].

Surveillance is on the rise^[4][5][6]. Models are starting to show that coronavirus, in fact, isn't as deadly as TV and MSM is showing us^[7][8]. Meanwhile, hospitals are now only accepting COVID-19 cases and lots of them are actually.. empty^[9]!

We're being told and taught to wait for the vaccine^[10]. I see a large push towards mandatory vaccination laws^[11]. Meanwhile, food shortage gets closer to reality^[12][13][14]. Meanwhile, a significant number of people have lost their job due to the pandemic^[15]. Meanwhile, a very ugly recession is approaching^[16]. Meanwhile, countries which have decided to do nothing about the virus and simply let herd immunity happen: Sweden is weeks away from herd immunity^[17] and Belarus is in no difficulty from the alleged pandemic^[18]. None of these two countries are in a worse situation than other countries around the world.

Meanwhile, we are sitting and waiting for a vaccine. A vaccine that has never had a successful result on other coronaviruses. A vaccine that we're being taught is 100% going to exist in a matter of months or years, but nobody is telling us that it may never actually become a reality.

We're waiting for something that is uncertain, for something we've never been able to create so far, while food shortage and economical destruction is almost here. If food shortage becomes a thing, this pandemic will be nothing compared to the number of deaths caused by famine.

So what are you waiting for exactly?


[1]   https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/government-warned-pandemic-ppe-testing-coronavirus-a4423921.html
[2]   https://www.foxnews.com/world/taiwan-releases-december-email-showing-unheeded-warning-to-who-about-coronavirus
[3]   https://scholar.google.com/scholar_lookup?title=Immunization%20with%20Sars%20Coronavirus%20vaccines%20leads%20to%20pulmonary%20immunopathology%20on%20challenge%20with%20the%20Sars%20Virus&publication_year=2012&author=C.T.%20Tseng&author=E.%20Sbrana&author=N.%20Iwata-Yoshikawa&author=P.C.%20Newman&author=T.%20Garron&author=R.L.%20Atmar
[4]   https://www.poconorecord.com/news/20200425/technology-to-track-covid-19-raises-fears-of-mass-surveillance
[5]   https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/04/22/surv-a22.html
[6]   https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-russia-facial-reco-idUSKCN2253CM
[7]   https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/apr/20/coronavirus-antibody-study-shows-covid-19-far-more/
[8]   https://reason.com/2020/04/17/covid-19-lethality-not-much-different-than-flu-says-new-study/
[9]   https://www.newsweek.com/most-us-hospitals-are-empty-soon-they-might-closed-good-opinion-1500028
[10] https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/medical/coronavirus-lockdown-social-distancing-should-be-indefinite-until-vaccine-is-made/ar-BB12Ixv4
[11] https://meaww.com/governments-will-need-to-make-coronavirus-vaccination-mandatory-rising-anti-vaccination-propaganda
[12] https://www.cbsnews.com/live/video/20200423080658-u-n-warns-of-global-growing-food-shortages/
[13] https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-04-25/beyond-meat-coronavirus-beef-pork-shortage
[14] https://www.marketwatch.com/story/meat-shortage-looms-as-coronavirus-shuts-packing-plants-leaving-farmers-with-tough-choices-2020-04-24?mod=cannabis-watch
[15] https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/more-22-million-americans-now-133030801.html
[16] https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/11463985/coronavirus-lockdown-uk-economic-slowdown-global-recession/
[17] https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/22/no-lockdown-in-sweden-but-stockholm-could-see-herd-immunity-in-weeks.html
[18] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/22/belarus-denies-danger-coronavirus-outbreak-football-matches/

[Yogee]

So what are you waiting for exactly?

Bill Gates 


Die from the virus or die from hunger? This is the option for many people right now and almost all governments are having a tough time managing the virus and it's effect on their economy. With their funds depleting fast, it is safe to assume that they will most likely lift the quarantine or lockdown soon with or without the vaccine.

[20kevin20]

Die from the virus or die from hunger?
~

Start planting your own garden and die from none. If we did this, we could save us and others when food shortage comes.

~
With their funds depleting fast, it is safe to assume that they will most likely lift the quarantine or lockdown soon with or without the vaccine.

Lifting the quarantine is useless if you keep the same authoritarian rules alive and people still can't continue their plans, their jobs etc. We mistake "lifting the quarantine" for going back to normal. We're not going back to normal by only lifting the quarantine, it's only a little psychological relaxation but the main idea they're pushing for is still "we need the vaccine".

[Cnut237]

the main idea they're pushing for is still "we need the vaccine".

There are two ways out of this: wait for the vaccine, or achieve herd immunity.

Countries and companies are racing to achieve a vaccine. Partly out of financial self-interest, I'm sure, as the dollar rewards will be huge. But this remains the ideal solution from the perspective of saving human lives - which surely is the most important consideration. The problems are that it will take a long time to ensure that any potential vaccine is both safe and effective, and also that demand will surely outstrip supply (at least initially) by orders of magnitude, potentially leading to unrest. No doubt the country in which the vaccine is produced will demand that they get it first, then richer countries will throw money at it to jump the queue, and poorer countries will suffer disproportionately. The other problem of course is that some form of social distancing will need to remain in place until the vaccine is available, certainly for months, possibly longer.

The other option is herd immunity. This involves letting people die in order that the economy doesn't suffer too much. There is obviously a huge moral issue here. The fact that this is being seriously considered as an option is indicative of the fact that western countries value people largely in terms of their economic contribution. Workers are seen as valuable, but then as soon as they hit retirement age they are seen as a burden on society. Whether you agree with this or not (I really don't), that is how western societies work. Dollar is king.

Two options, both with problems, but I would argue that waiting for a vaccine is morally preferable to re-opening the economy and letting people die herd immunity.

[20kevin20]

~

I do get your idea, but what is the point of waiting a vaccine if hunger will be a much, much larger problem we will have to fight with the more this "waiting" lasts?

As I said in the OP, there has never been a successful vaccine for a coronavirus. You might argue by telling me that we've never had a coronavirus pandemic before - but what about Sweden and Belarus going for the herd immunity and having absolutely no issue with it? What about the most recent models showing the deaths are way lower than we've been told in the beginning?

Why are we told that "herd immunity is going to do more damage and a lot of people are going to die" if the countries going for it are having no more deaths than the rest?

People have lost their jobs, we are starting to run out of food (read more about meat shortage in the USA which will affect the entire world; I've received some horrible news from some friends working with global food corporations and it certainly looks like that's the way we're heading for.

So right now we have actually two options and it looks different to yours: go for herd immunity and most likely have the same results as Sweden & Belarus or wait until food shortage and much larger issues come in, start a famine crisis and witness the death of possibly millions of people.

If at first I had to take this so-called pandemic 100% seriously, now I have a lot of questions I want an official answer for which include: why are people who talk about the dangers of vaccines silenced? Why are we so scared of this coronavirus if we've officially been informed that even those who died without the virus are supposed to have died from it and we count them as virus deaths? Why do we have to keep everything closed if the hospitals are empty? and so on...

It looks to me like somebody wants the recession/depression to come and we are waiting for nothing. Just imagine if we are going to wait for 10 more months for this vaccine and someone comes out and says "We are sorry to inform you, but there has been no successful vaccine".

Again - the vaccines are most likely not going to be properly tested before their release. This also explains the PREP act, have you seen it?

that provides immunity from liability (except for willful misconduct) for claims of loss caused, arising out of, relating to, or resulting from administration or use of countermeasures to diseases

So are we waiting for something that we aren't sure is going to do good instead of even more damage? If I am from the USA, I give my kids the vaccine and they die from it in a horrible way, the manufacturers have immunity from liability. What the hell is this? 

[Cnut237]

what about Sweden and Belarus going for the herd immunity and having absolutely no issue with it?

I'd dispute that. There has been a bit of scandal about care home deaths in Sweden.

What about the most recent models showing the deaths are way lower than we've been told in the beginning?

This is a valid point. No-one knows how many people have had the virus with mild symptoms or even asymptomatically. This just won't be known unless antibody tests are done on the whole population, which given the shortage of equipment seems extremely unlikely. We can look at countries such as Germany that have done a lot of testing, and yes, the mortality rates there do seem lower. Perhaps countries are over-reacting somewhat now, as overcompensation for the fact that they under-reacted initially. Difficult to know without sufficient data.

Just imagine if we are going to wait for 10 more months for this vaccine and someone comes out and says "We are sorry to inform you, but there has been no successful vaccine".

The thing is though, we are not just waiting for a vaccine, the main immediate purpose of the social distancing is to 'flatten the curve' of new infections in order that health services aren't overwhelmed. I do take your point though; there is no guarantee that a vaccine can be produced.

Again - the vaccines are most likely not going to be properly tested before their release.

This is a concern, yes. There is huge pressure to get a vaccine out quickly, and different countries are racing one another... which does tend to result in shortcuts being taken.

If I am from the USA, I give my kids the vaccine and they die from it in a horrible way, the manufacturers have immunity from liability. What the hell is this? 

I think legal accountability is a different issue. Likely to vary by country.

[20kevin20]

~

Fair enough! Regarding the "likely to vary by country" point you've made though, as far as I know, manufacturers not willing to assume liability will not sell their vaccines/treatments in countries where they don't have immunity. This is a big concern, however, for the +320M people living in the USA. And 320M is a huge number.

I haven't read any negative news about Sweden/Belarus until now, so thanks for the article.

[Cnut237]

manufacturers not willing to assume liability will not sell their vaccines/treatments in countries where they don't have immunity. This is a big concern, however, for the +320M people living in the USA. And 320M is a huge number.

Yes, you're right, of course. This is certainly a seller's market. Whoever produces the vaccine can make whatever demands they like, and countries will just say yes to all of them, legal immunity naturally being the first condition. I take back my point, I'm wrong, they will surely be legally immune everywhere.

[Lucius]

Start planting your own garden and die from none. If we did this, we could save us and others when food shortage comes.

Unfortunately for all people living in apartment buildings, the option of growing your own fruit and vegetables is an impossible mission, except in the case of those who do it on their balconies, but it is more like a hobby than sufficient production. Those who do not have the land to plant something and later harvest are completely condemned to have to buy such products. Given that the demand for such goods is constant, any shortage will entail an increase in price, which will cause some people to be unable to afford enough fresh fruits and vegetables.

For those who have the ability to cultivate their garden, things are not as simple as they might seem at first glance. If we want to have healthy food from our garden we need to have healthy soil, clean water, untreated seeds and favorable weather conditions. Such production requires experience and a lot of work, while the results are not always favorable.

I personally have my own little garden and planted almost all kinds of vegetables, but the weather conditions in the last 5-6 years have deteriorated significantly. Already in April we have temperatures of around 30 degrees Celsius, which mainly results with spring storms with strong winds and hail. Therefore, for the purpose of protection, it should be invested in hail protection (protection nets) which makes production even more expensive and more demanding.

But it's definitely better to have some kind of insurance and do something in food production than to depend entirely on someone else. Tomatoes from my garden are not comparable to industrially produced tomatoes, they are completely healthy (no harmful substances), have the right flavor and all the nutrients (I use old varieties of seeds) so the effort pays off.

[NotATether]

Meanwhile, food shortage gets closer to reality^[12][13][14].

North America and some European cities, and possibly India and Japan too have food delivery services like Instacart and Amazon Fresh available, so food shortages won't be a big problem for them. These services send workers to buy groceries from supermarkets, some of which are far away, and deliver it to you.

China seemed to have this handy ahead of time. https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2020/3/25/21193817/home-delivery-china-coronavirus-us-alibaba-amazon

For other places it's getting pretty bad. Locals here brought together a lot of essential groceries to resell in my area due to rampant selling out in stores.

[franky1]

just need to debunk the OP references
[7] the los angeles only had Out of 863 adults tested in LA County, 35 or 4.06%
     the santa clara study had out of 3300, 50 or 1.5%

the studies then went into try to factor in lots of excuses for discrepencies which pushed the number of actual positive tests of 1.5 up to the extremes of 5%

so just doing the math
if we take los angeles ACTUAL antibody results would have USAs 330m population as 13.4m herd immunised
if we take santa clara ACTUAL antibody results would have USAs 330m population as 5m herd immunised

knowing americans covid positive stats are 1m+ thats a 5-13x not a 50-80x

sorry folks but 50m-80m are not immune.. its more like 5m-13m

have fun with those real numbers not medias wishy washy numbers based on 'statistical error' summaries

[Jet Cash]

There will never be a vaccine to protect against the corona virus, there may be some treatments that purport to be beneficial, but they won't be as good as natural defences in a healthy body. You are being misled by propaganda if you think that the Bill Gates funded health industry will come up with anything beneficial. Take hydroxychloroquine for example. That is supposed to provide 90% protection and recovery, but natural immunity provides 95%, so, although it looks good, it is actually 5% worse that the benefits from a healthy lifestyle. What a waste of taxpayers money.

[LTU_btc]

I'm not anti-waxer, but even if vaccine against COVID-19 will be found, I doubt that I'm going to use it, same like I never use flu vaccine. First of all, it's not clear when it will be found. Making effective vaccine isn't that easy, so it can took years to create it. It's likely that COVID-19 virus will mutate, and when vaccine will be made, it simply may not work.

Meanwhile, countries which have decided to do nothing about the virus and simply let herd immunity happen: Sweden is weeks away from herd immunity^[17] and Belarus is in no difficulty from the alleged pandemic^[18]. None of these two countries are in a worse situation than other countries around the world.

I like Sweden approach, but I'm not sure that's perfect example which should be followed by every country. Yes, situation isn't worse than in Italy or USA, but it's definitely not that good. If I'm not mistaken, death rate for 1 million people in Sweden is one of biggest in the world.

[Chrystora123]

a vaccine for COVID-19 is unlikely to ever be found, this virus can only disappear like the previous plague (sars & mers).  an microbiologist from Australia said that sars-cov-2 which is currently a "pandemic" is divided into 3 types, type A which is epidemic in America, type B which is epidemic in China and type C which is in Europe, this is the reason why the symptoms are different in several areas..  this virus is strange, almost like an HIV virus that attacks the body's immune system, that microbiologist said "this virus is like a flu virus combined with HIV"..

[coinlocket$]

a vaccine for COVID-19 is unlikely to ever be found

Well, the Vaccine is almost done. A collaboration between Italy and Uk is already in stage 3.

They are talking here in Italy if the final stage will go well to have the 1st dose ready for September in a special lab here in Italy.
The vaccine for the mass should be ready for q4 2020 q1 2021.

If you can understand Italian, this is a video from this special lab: https://www.tgcom24.mediaset.it/cronaca/lazio/coronavirus-nello-stabilimento-italiano-che-produce-il-vaccino-la-prima-fiale-potrebbe-arrivare-a-settembre_19958531-202002a.shtml

They will be ready for the production from August but the 1st box of vaccine will not be ready before September they said.

[Soldierswitlittlefaith]

a vaccine for COVID-19 is unlikely to ever be found

Well, the Vaccine is almost done. A collaboration between Italy and Uk is already in stage 3.

They are talking here in Italy if the final stage will go well to have the 1st dose ready for September in a special lab here in Italy.
The vaccine for the mass should be ready for q4 2020 q1 2021.

If you can understand Italian, this is a video from this special lab: https://www.tgcom24.mediaset.it/cronaca/lazio/coronavirus-nello-stabilimento-italiano-che-produce-il-vaccino-la-prima-fiale-potrebbe-arrivare-a-settembre_19958531-202002a.shtml

They will be ready for the production from August but the 1st box of vaccine will not be ready before September they said.

@coinlocket$, hello, i'm from rome.

Pls donot take any news you might have heard or read in italian newspaper seriously when it comes to cov-19 & vaccine.

There are lot of misconception.

Thanks

[20kevin20]

Well, the Vaccine is almost done. A collaboration between Italy and Uk is already in stage 3.

They are talking here in Italy if the final stage will go well to have the 1st dose ready for September in a special lab here in Italy.
The vaccine for the mass should be ready for q4 2020 q1 2021.

If you can understand Italian, this is a video from this special lab: https://www.tgcom24.mediaset.it/cronaca/lazio/coronavirus-nello-stabilimento-italiano-che-produce-il-vaccino-la-prima-fiale-potrebbe-arrivare-a-settembre_19958531-202002a.shtml

They will be ready for the production from August but the 1st box of vaccine will not be ready before September they said.

Late reply, but I am highly concerned about the possible long term consequences of an improperly tested vaccine. One vaccine needs decades to only try to approximate which side effects there are to it. Giving a dose that has been worked on for only 10 months to the entire population of a country/the world is very concerning to say the least. Just imagine a possible scenario of severe side effects that only come after an year or two after taking the dose. One of them may be even paralysis. Let's try not to avoid the pandemic only to push ourselves into an even more severe situation.

I think the last seven months proved all the global hysteria wrong. I still have yet to hear one person from my country who knows a person that has been severely affected by the virus, and it's been seven months already. But leaving that aside, instead of focusing on the very quick distribution of the vaccine, I would personally focus on properly creating herd immunity and possibly releasing the vaccine only when it's almost sure the side effects are only seen in very very low percentages of the pacients.

Taking a quote from GatesNotes to sustain my just-explained opinion:

The smallpox vaccine is the only vaccine that’s wiped an entire disease off the face of the earth, but it’s also pretty brutal to receive. It left a scar on the arm of anyone who got it. One out of every three people had side effects bad enough to keep them home from school or work. A small—but not insignificant—number developed more serious reactions.

The smallpox vaccine was far from perfect, but it got the job done. The COVID-19 vaccine might be similar.

(..)

The shingles vaccine—which is also targeted to older people—combats this by amping up the strength of the vaccine. It’s possible we do something similar for COVID, although it might come with more side effects. Health authorities could also ask people over a certain age to get an additional dose.

[Jet Cash]

Before they start pratting around with vaccines that cripple people, and create deformed and unemployable kids, why don't they try to improve general health. Ban smoking, seed oils, vaping ultra-processed foods, coke and energy drinks for example.

Of course that won't suit the ruling elite. They want us to have artificially manufactured "foods", and immune systems that are controlled by the virus master - Bill Gates.

I got to be 78 by avoiding all vaccines and medication, and enjoying life. I even ride motor cycles, and they tell me that is dangerous.

[lovesmayfamilis]

The latest news suggests that Russia has already invented one vaccine, and a second vaccine is already in its final step towards completion. By the end of 2020, it is planned to establish up to 10 million vaccines per month in Russia. Mass vaccination of Russians is planned for October. Vaccinations will be routine, just like seasonal flu shots.

https://www.dw.com/en/russia-plans-coronavirus-vaccination-program-from-october/a-54401689

[Jet Cash]

They have been testing the effects of vaccines 7 or 8 years after administration, and the results are quite alarming. Current tests ( if they are done) only check a few days after infection ( that is how a vaccine works), and they don't test for interaction with other drugs that the sheeple may be taking.