A perspective of the future of Bitcoin..

[20kevin20]

This thread was created by me on the Romanian board and translated into English now for the international one.

I've been wondering for a while how the Romanian community of BitcoinTalk could be revived. I'm more than sure that we have a pretty significant number of Romanians on the forum. However, as far as I can see, most of them are silent.

Therefore, I have decided to create a topic about a vision on Bitcoin's future. I only have two simple questions I'd like to be answered: How long have you been in the crypto sphere and how do you envision Bitcoin in the short/long term future?

I am going to begin by expressing my own ideas.

The so-called 'journey' in the middle of which I am right now began in late 2013. I won't get much into detail - long story short, I found out about Bitcoin's existence through news.

My perspective about Bitcoin has changed, unfortunately, negatively among these 7 years of experience. From the idea that Bitcoin could turn the economical and governmental systems of the world upside down, today I see it as nothing else but an obstacle the governments overcame long ago and for which they surely have a plan of attack so that it would never be a threat for them be it in the present or short and long term future.

If until 2016-2017 there were no laws regarding cryptocurrencies and the law could be easily interpreted so that nobody knew for sure what they should or should not do properly about owning, using and transactioning them, today we have laws that appear as if they are opposing more and more the fundamental ideas of cryptocurrencies - almost as if the intention behind these regulations was to destroy them while using this entire time the "cryptocurrencies are used in criminal activities" excuse.

This has changed, in my opinion, Bitcoin's destiny. If in 2015 I could peacefully conduct transactions anywhere with cryptocurrencies and ATMs did not have anonymity limits, today I feel taken over by the world governments' regulations that ruthlessly entered my personal, private life.

The so-called "support" of cryptocurrencies by the states has proven, in my opinion, to be exactly the opposite. To be more precise, "sustaining" them has led to the resistance in front of genius Satoshi Nakamoto's essential ideas he began with. Through some kind of sabotage, the state could argue that being against the regulations means implicitly sustaining illegal activities. A kind of "Let us seize your personal life and control even this attempt of freeing yourself from the chain of wage slavery and criminal banks or we consider you a terrorist".

Today we have all these surveillance measures. Some of them are partial surveillance, others are surveillance from start to end. While we are fighting the pandemic and the incredible influx of uncertain information, surveillance is taking over our privacy "step by step" as our president Klaus Iohannis says, privacy becoming therefore an idea, a definition from the past.

Taking all the above into account, putting all the information in a nucleus, I can only get to one conclusion: Bitcoin's future will either have an abrupt and sad ending or will represent our revolution against the system of modern enslavery and against the flux of authoritarian and imposing laws we are witnessing right now.

The existence of privacy-focused cryptocurrencies like Monero surely did provoke fear inside all the world's governments, but the volume of transactions does not appear to be a threat to them so far.. which calms them down. But if Bitcoin ever fails because of these governments and we'd all move to the privacy-focused Monero immediately, would Satoshi Nakamoto's vision still be achieved? Would we still be able to finish what he started more than a decade ago, trying to turn upside down the attempt of "those above us" to transform our privacy into a definition of the past?

To me, the future is now uncertain. I will never give up, but I am afraid a significant number of apparent supporters of Satoshi's vision would, leaving us with no more soldiers in our war. I am afraid that too many of the ones currently supporting cryptocurrencies are only doing it because they have the hope of getting rich one day and are capable of accepting any sacrifice as long as their hope would become reality.

But nobody realizes that the privacy we knew and our freedom are the wealth we've been taught to ignore for a lifetime.

[DarkDays]

To me, the future is now uncertain. I will never give up, but I am afraid a significant number of apparent supporters of Satoshi's vision would, leaving us with no more soldiers in our war. I am afraid that too many of the ones currently supporting cryptocurrencies are only doing it because they have the hope of getting rich one day and are capable of accepting any sacrifice as long as their hope would become reality.

But nobody realizes that the privacy we knew and our freedom are the wealth we've been taught to ignore for a lifetime.

Truth.

Unfortunately far too many people are in Bitcoin for the sole purpose of getting rich.

Only a small fraction of people actually transact daily in cryptocurrency, rather than using it for speculative purposes.

However, it doesn't really matter. Over time, the network will continue to develop and get stronger, and when the time comes when the traditional economy collapses, Bitcoin will be built-up and ready for the task of taking over.

So long as we can build Bitcoin to this point, no matter how, then it should still achieve its purpose when shit really hits the fan in the fiat world.

"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks" <- this was inscribed by Satoshi in the Coinbase of the Genesis block. Sounds a lot like the world today... So we've got some work to do because I don't believe Bitcoin is ready to handle the load of mass adoption yet.

[Arcas]

I give second chance for bitcoin where I lost my first chance when bitcoin touch higher price, maybe waiting when halving moment become our destination to know will bitcoin back to higher price or keep with going down. Many chance of bitcoin will be happen and just waiting two weeks later to know what will bitcoin do.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Today we have all these surveillance measures. Some of them are partial surveillance, others are surveillance from start to end. While we are fighting the pandemic and the incredible influx of uncertain information, surveillance is taking over our privacy "step by step" as our president Klaus Iohannis says, privacy becoming therefore an idea, a definition from the past.

This paragraph in particular put a chill down my spine.  I've often had a feeling that the newer generations will wonder what this concept of "privacy" was, and why some people thought it was so important--and by that point, privacy will be simply an abstract idea and not something that exists anymore.

I never thought of bitcoin as being an enemy of the state, any state.  I never figured it would overthrow the banking system or any of that, so I haven't exactly become disillusioned with it as time has passed. 

Anyway you laid out your thoughts pretty well, OP. 

Unfortunately far too many people are in Bitcoin for the sole purpose of getting rich.

Only a small fraction of people actually transact daily in cryptocurrency, rather than using it for speculative purposes.

Yeah, so?  Bitcoin would be nowhere near as popular as it is if it didn't offer the possibility of making a profit.  That's a good thing.  If bitcoin were a stablecoin, pretty much nobody would be using it as long as they were still able to use cash, their smartphone, or a debit card.

[avikz]

Truth.

Unfortunately far too many people are in Bitcoin for the sole purpose of getting rich.

Only a small fraction of people actually transact daily in cryptocurrency, rather than using it for speculative purposes.

I don't see anything wrong in that! The willingness of become rich is one of the major reasons for many people associating themselves with bitcoin. Probably a major percentage of the community. What's wrong in that? The people can't use bitcoin in daily transactions for a number of reasons like low acceptability and unclear regulations. Not everyone is fortune to live in countries like Japan or Germany.

However, it doesn't really matter. Over time, the network will continue to develop and get stronger, and when the time comes when the traditional economy collapses, Bitcoin will be built-up and ready for the task of taking over.

So long as we can build Bitcoin to this point, no matter how, then it should still achieve its purpose when shit really hits the fan in the fiat world.

"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks" <- this was inscribed by Satoshi in the Coinbase of the Genesis block. Sounds a lot like the world today... So we've got some work to do because I don't believe Bitcoin is ready to handle the load of mass adoption yet.

Bitcoin is too small to be considered as a world currency. It simply doesn't have the capability of handle such volume. Things like LN, will definitely be helpful in that. But as of now, I see prepaid cards are a very good example of how we can slowly push the bitcoin for better adoption.

It's just a 11 year old kid. Give him time mature!

[o_e_l_e_o]

and by that point, privacy will be simply an abstract idea and not something that exists anymore.

Privacy doesn't actually exist anymore for the majority of the population. Only an illusion. You only have to look at some of the revelations surrounding Snowden, the NSA, Cambridge Analytica, Five/Nine/Fourteen Eyes, etc. And these are only the things we know about, that have been leaked. You can guarantee there is far, far worse still hidden from the public. You can tweak your Facebook settings to hide certain content from other people and tell Google to stop tracking your location, it makes no difference. We know these companies collect all your data regardless of what you ask them to do. Every website you visit, every email you send, every piece of data you sync to the cloud, everywhere you go, everyone you meet, everything you say. They can turn on your cameras, your microphones, your GPS trackers.

The scariest part of it all is that people don't care. Not only do they not care that they are being monitored, they are usually more than happy to help out and pay for the privilege by buying technology such as smart TVs and Amazon Echoes which have been proven to be monitoring you. People are quite literally paying to bug their own house.

Privacy is no longer a right for most people. It is an inconvenience. They are happy to have Amazon monitor their conversations if it means they don't have to (God forbid!) press a single button to skip to the next song. They are happy to have Facebook track their location if it means they can share pictures of their Starbucks coffee. They are happy to have the bank keep a track of everything they buy if it means they can just tap a card and not think twice about it.

We are ever more living in a surveillance state. Surveillance breeds compliance. Meek, fearful, unthinking compliance. You'll never step out of line if you know you are constantly being watched. Anything that can break that cycle - Tor, end-to-end encryption, PGP, bitcoin - is only going to become more important as time goes on.

[gentlemand]

If until 2016-2017 there were no laws regarding cryptocurrencies and the law could be easily interpreted so that nobody knew for sure what they should or should not do properly about owning, using and transactioning them, today we have laws that appear as if they are opposing more and more the fundamental ideas of cryptocurrencies - almost as if the intention behind these regulations was to destroy them while using this entire time the "cryptocurrencies are used in criminal activities" excuse.

I can right now do a deal with someone anywhere on the planet and pay them in Bitcoin. No one can stop me. No one can take it away from the person I sent it to. They can then turn around and do the exact same thing with anyone of their choice. The core of Bitcoin's purpose is intact.

Where is gets sticky is when the government's turf is encroached on and fiat is the the government's creation. If enough people take the leap to abandon fiat and properly close the loop most things the average person panics about will be gone. Almost every single gripe and problem that comes up is the result of having one foot in the old system.

Whether we ever get there is another matter. No one said it would be easy or quick.

Satoshi did his job. It's every subsequent arrival's job to see it through if they can be arsed.

As for the getting rich thing, if it wasn't present we wouldn't be having this conversation. No one would be mining or would have mined and no one would have played beyond 2010/11.

[Salamstar]

I consider that I am one of the lucky ones who entered the world of Crypto and learned a lot from him. Indeed, I discovered that the real wealth from this field has gained me by obtaining privacy, decentralization and financial freedom that cannot be controlled by governments or banks.
In addition, I still dream of making a second fortune when bitcoin rises.

[squatter]

As for the getting rich thing, if it wasn't present we wouldn't be having this conversation. No one would be mining or would have mined and no one would have played beyond 2010/11.

A lot of people underestimate the positive aspects of speculation. It attracts lots and lots of adopters. Some of them will lose their shirt in the market and go on to write Bitcoin off as a scam, but some -- or even most -- will stick around. It's an amazing technology.

I don't make a big distinction between speculators and "people who actually use Bitcoin as a currency." A lot of people take issue with the former group. I don't see them as a problem as long as the network retains a healthy degree of spending and usage -- as opposed to 100% of people hoarding.

[20kevin20]

Unfortunately far too many people are in Bitcoin for the sole purpose of getting rich.

Only a small fraction of people actually transact daily in cryptocurrency, rather than using it for speculative purposes.

However, it doesn't really matter. Over time, the network will continue to develop and get stronger, and when the time comes when the traditional economy collapses, Bitcoin will be built-up and ready for the task of taking over.

So long as we can build Bitcoin to this point, no matter how, then it should still achieve its purpose when shit really hits the fan in the fiat world.

"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks" <- this was inscribed by Satoshi in the Coinbase of the Genesis block. Sounds a lot like the world today... So we've got some work to do because I don't believe Bitcoin is ready to handle the load of mass adoption yet.

It does matter imo as most of these people will be the ones to dump BTC and never come back again once they find out it does not get you rich in no time. I do understand, however, the important point you make -  these people, although in BTC/crypto temporarily, may bring in true believers and investors in Satoshi's vision (damn it, I have to remind myself of CSW's coin every time I mention "Satoshi's vision" now )

This paragraph in particular put a chill down my spine.  I've often had a feeling that the newer generations will wonder what this concept of "privacy" was, and why some people thought it was so important--and by that point, privacy will be simply an abstract idea and not something that exists anymore.

I never thought of bitcoin as being an enemy of the state, any state.  I never figured it would overthrow the banking system or any of that, so I haven't exactly become disillusioned with it as time has passed.

Anyway you laid out your thoughts pretty well, OP.
~

Thanks for the kind words. I was probably too excited about the idea of Bitcoin giving us financial freedom back when I started and I went for this vision initially that it may turn everything upside down. I did not, however, take into account the fact that centralized cryptocurrencies exist so banks would use this to their own advantage, to create their own digital currency that'd obviously be much faster than Bitcoin - centralization is much more comfortable, but comes with a big cost.

~

Well, my question is the following: will people still use Bitcoin if they never get rich out of it or just dump it and move on? I honestly thought that even banks working on digital currencies might push for a larger Bitcoin adoption, but a national digital currency will be easy to use compared to BTC. Besides this, there is a degree of so-called "safety" these currencies will provide, I mean you'd probably be able to recover it much easier than BTC..

Anyways, maybe I'm missing something out of the frame. I honestly wish BTC will someday become the majority's interest. I guess its mission is now divided in two paths: one going towards anti-crypto regulation and one starting from an increase in people's interest towards privacy.

~

Couldn't agree more, unfortunately. Tor, Monero and other privacy-focused software and new tech will not only become more important as time goes but will also probably become a large target to our surveillance state.

I've only recently started going out of radar, although I am sure I cannot do it completely. I can not remove all the previous fingerprints, accounts I am now locked out of, pictures of me I (or anyone else) have uploaded anywhere on the Internet or on any chat and so on. They exist and they are going to probably be enough for them to recognize my behavior on the Internet - they surely are more advanced than we believe. I consider that even the way we write is a very easy way for them to recognize the link between few accounts.

What's sad is that we're looking at "sci-fi" movies and playing games such as Watch Dogs without even realizing that we're actually already entered that kind of world where some will prefer to continue living a good life under surveillance while others will want to get out of their cage and chase freedom, implicitly becoming a suspicious target.

~

Agreed! On the other hand, the only thing that could probably happen to destroy the core of Bitcoin's purpose is the governments stating "Well, we have done some research and found out that a very large percentage out of crypto's volume is used in illicit activity. Hence, we have decided to officially ban the use of cryptocurrencies starting from <date>". It's probably the only way to really finish off Bitcoin right now that I can think of, besides extreme regulation and the majority of people losing their interest in it.

Oh man, I really hope we do get to the point where enough people abandon fiat and move on from it.

A lot of people underestimate the positive aspects of speculation. It attracts lots and lots of adopters. Some of them will lose their shirt in the market and go on to write Bitcoin off as a scam, but some -- or even most -- will stick around. It's an amazing technology.

I don't make a big distinction between speculators and "people who actually use Bitcoin as a currency." A lot of people take issue with the former group. I don't see them as a problem as long as the network retains a healthy degree of spending and usage -- as opposed to 100% of people hoarding.

This links with my point from a few paragraphs above in this reply. I probably did not express the last two paragraphs in the OP the right way - I meant to say that we're chasing fortune completely ignoring the fact that we are throwing our privacy away, which should've been the no. 1 thing we're looking for.. like people using centralized exchanges and willingly giving out all their personal information and documents chasing wealth - we're willingly giving information away for free to some entities without realizing how much this information actually costs.

The situation where you aren't allowed to withdraw from an exchange without KYC is literally paying an entity to give you back your money after you've earned them fees through your transactions. Sabotage, in other words.


Thanks to everyone for the replies, I really appreciate it and it is a very interesting conversation indeed. I have merited you guys but I unfortunately ran out of merit for @squatter, if anyone could spare 1 merit and give it to him for me I'd really appreciate it! (later edit: I have now sent him the merit too, thanks to avikz!)

[avikz]

Well, my question is the following: will people still use Bitcoin if they never get rich out of it or just dump it and move on? I honestly thought that even banks working on digital currencies might push for a larger Bitcoin adoption, but a national digital currency will be easy to use compared to BTC. Besides this, there is a degree of so-called "safety" these currencies will provide, I mean you'd probably be able to recover it much easier than BTC..

Anyways, maybe I'm missing something out of the frame. I honestly wish BTC will someday become the majority's interest. I guess its mission is now divided in two paths: one going towards anti-crypto regulation and one starting from an increase in people's interest towards privacy

I sincerely want the same. I want to see people's increasing interest towards bitcoin for good. But lack of clear regulation is one of the major bottlenecks towards this achievement. With CBDC's implementation, I believe some additional clarity would be given from policy perspective. But i don't really expect a lot here!

CBDC will definitely be easier for the commoners to use and understand. But you have to remember that, CBDC will snatch the privacy rights from you. Probably, that might help towards crypto adoption to some extent.

Let's see what the future holds for us!

[Gozie51]

quote author=Arcas link=topic=5244308.msg54319148#msg54319148 date=1588099235]
I give second chance for bitcoin where I lost my first chance when bitcoin touch higher price, maybe waiting when halving moment become our destination to know will bitcoin back to higher price or keep with going down. Many chance of bitcoin will be happen and just waiting two weeks later to know what will bitcoin do.
[/quote]

I also have not had a chance of a halving but this time, it won't elude me. I'm going to keep an eye on it for real. Come May, the halving is going to be here and the signs are already here for a bull. Price has almost touched $8,000, this is a bull run coming soon.

[MicroGuy]

I consider that I am one of the lucky ones who entered the world of Crypto and learned a lot from him. Indeed, I discovered that the real wealth from this field has gained me by obtaining privacy, decentralization and financial freedom that cannot be controlled by governments or banks.
In addition, I still dream of making a second fortune when bitcoin rises.

1. Bitcoin transactions are NOT private.
2. Bitcoin is not decentralized.
3. You can't have true freedom without privacy.

[BrewMaster]

the biggest problem is people themselves. it was not government who forced them to like KYC and go to centralized places to acquire bitcoin such as Coinbase, Binance, Bitpay,... it was not the government who forced them to forget that bitcoin is a currency not an investment. ... they did that all by themselves.
my perspective about bitcoin has not changed at all but my perspective about "bitcoiners" has changed or maybe my eyes are open now.

[acdc]

I am afraid that too many of the ones currently supporting cryptocurrencies are only doing it because they have the hope of getting rich one day and are capable of accepting any sacrifice as long as their hope would become reality.

There are many reasons why people participate in the cryptocurrency market, of which profit is one of the most important reasons. When Bitcoin and the cryptocurrency market are profitable we can attract investors, thereby developing blockchian technology. If someday investors invest in the cryptocurrency market disappear from the market, I am sure that the cryptocurrency market will collapse.

[EdvinZ]

Bitcoin in its present form has no great future, because It is anonymous, and this is contrary to the interests of any state. Either Bitcoin will become more transparent and the community will take into account the interests of states, or Bitcoin will be awarded the reputation of an asset that is not supported by rich states and as a result, gradually interest in it will fade.

[hatshepsut93]

Even people who only want to get rich quick still contribute to the network. If they buy Bitcoin, they increase its price, and higher price means more hashpower for mining, and more hashpower means the network is harder to attack. So, without the "get rich quick" people the network won't be as secure as it is now. Also, traders provide liquidity, which makes the market healthier, and everything that is good for the price is good for the network. Also, the more people use Bitcoin and do transaction, the harder it is to spy on everyone.

[davis196]

You are right about our privacy and freedom being our wealth.Unfortunately,we have to giveaway our privacy and freedom in order to gain money and resources.That's how the civilization works.You have to "sell" your time and labor by working a 9 to 5 job.Social media corporations want to know your interests,beliefs and other personal data,so they could sell that info to the advertisers.
The future of Bitcoin is uncertain,so is the future of everything else.Government regulations are inevitable and whining about having strict regulations,KYC and having to pay taxes over crypto revenue is simply pointless.
In the future almost nobody will be completely anonymous,so privacy becomes an even more valuable asset.
 

[o_e_l_e_o]

Bitcoin in its present form has no great future, because It is anonymous, and this is contrary to the interests of any state. Either Bitcoin will become more transparent and the community will take into account the interests of states, or Bitcoin will be awarded the reputation of an asset that is not supported by rich states and as a result, gradually interest in it will fade.

You couldn't be more wrong here.

First of all, bitcoin is categorically not anonymous by default. It is possible to use bitcoin anonymously (or close to it), but there are many steps you have to take to be able to do so, and the majority of average users who try would trip up somewhere and de-anonymize themselves.

Secondly, bitcoin not being supported by governments is the precise reason that interest in it is growing, not fading. People are getting fed up of governments printing trillions of dollars (or equivalent) of monopoly money to bail out banks, airlines, tech giants, and other billion dollar industries, while the average citizens sees their wages stagnant, inflation run rampant, the cost of living increase, and becomes poorer.

Social media corporations want to know your interests,beliefs and other personal data,so they could sell that info to the advertisers.

So don't give it to them. It's entirely possible to live your life without social media accounts. In fact, research shows those who delete their social media accounts have better physical and mental health, better productivity, better sleep, and feel happier and less stressed.

[Eugenar]

Well said, there are so many people who are in cryptocurrency having a goal of being rich, well even me has that reason and I think all of you guys think the same way because one of the purpose why we are entering something or joining something is because we want to be benefited from it and that's how bitcoin gives to all of us.

We are also here to have more information about cryptocurrency, some only wants to have some transaction with others. We have been so long in bitcoin and we see how good is bitcoin now from it's very first time until now, many things happen and thing are going well.