Bitcoin Forum
May 21, 2024, 04:40:08 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 [33] 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 ... 142 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Pollard's kangaroo ECDLP solver  (Read 56249 times)
Jean_Luc (OP)
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 462
Merit: 696


View Profile
June 02, 2020, 02:46:21 PM
 #641

ASIC means Application-Specific Integrated Circuit which means that you have to build a dedicated electronic component to do the job, you probably want to say FPGA ?
I have only a little experience with FPGA programming and powerful development boards are rather expensive, maybe I can try to get one from my job, I don't know but this is not yet planned...
COBRAS
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 861
Merit: 22

$$P2P BTC BRUTE.JOIN NOW ! https://uclck.me/SQPJk


View Profile
June 02, 2020, 02:53:41 PM
 #642

ASIC means Application-Specific Integrated Circuit which means that you have to build a dedicated electronic component to do the job, you probably want to say FPGA ?
I have only a little experience with FPGA programming and powerful development boards are rather expensive, maybe I can try to get one from my job, I don't know but this is not yet planned...



Yes Buddy !https://www.aliexpress.com/popular/asic-bitcoin-miner.html

Buddy Bitcoin ASIC miner old used core a1 25Th/s  !!!! https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33042353113.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000023.4.3c6e4056Fsb9L6


This is a equipment is more adecwate for Kangatoo task i think. Kangaaroo needed a PETA and Terra hash per second not mega or giga.


What you think about this ? ? ?

Bro without ASIC support progect will have not ggod future I think. Because keys 150 Buyts not awaliable for GPU, no one have a 100 or 200 GPUs.

I think it is better to use the maximum available power and this power is not provided by the GPU but ASIC's

Br

$$$ P2P NETWORK FOR BTC WALLET.DAT BRUTE F ORCE .JOIN NOW=GET MANY COINS NOW !!!
https://github.com/phrutis/LostWallet  https://t.me/+2niP9bQ8uu43MDg6
Jean_Luc (OP)
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 462
Merit: 696


View Profile
June 02, 2020, 03:01:15 PM
 #643

As said by MrFreeDragon this kind of ASIC is dedicated to hashing only and Kangaroo has nothing to do with hashing. To my knowledge no ASIC exist for ECDSA calculation...
brainless
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 316
Merit: 34


View Profile
June 02, 2020, 03:02:09 PM
 #644

ASIC means Application-Specific Integrated Circuit which means that you have to build a dedicated electronic component to do the job, you probably want to say FPGA ?
I have only a little experience with FPGA programming and powerful development boards are rather expensive, maybe I can try to get one from my job, I don't know but this is not yet planned...



Yes Buddy !https://www.aliexpress.com/popular/asic-bitcoin-miner.html

Buddy Bitcoin ASIC miner old used core a1 25Th/s  !!!! https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33042353113.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000023.4.3c6e4056Fsb9L6


This is a equipment is more adecwate for Kangatoo task i think. Kangaaroo needed a PETA and Terra hash per second not mega or giga.


What you think about this ? ? ?

Bro without ASIC support progect will have not ggod future I think. Because keys 150 Buyts not awaliable for GPU, no one have a 100 or 200 GPUs.

I think it is better to use the maximum available power and this power is not provided by the GPU but ASIC's

Br
Jean luc and zeiler will arrange more then 2000 GPU's, they have source, COBRAS just enjoy all development, and test it as its available

13sXkWqtivcMtNGQpskD78iqsgVy9hcHLF
brainless
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 316
Merit: 34


View Profile
June 02, 2020, 03:04:16 PM
 #645

ASIC means Application-Specific Integrated Circuit which means that you have to build a dedicated electronic component to do the job, you probably want to say FPGA ?
I have only a little experience with FPGA programming and powerful development boards are rather expensive, maybe I can try to get one from my job, I don't know but this is not yet planned...



Yes Buddy !https://www.aliexpress.com/popular/asic-bitcoin-miner.html

Buddy Bitcoin ASIC miner old used core a1 25Th/s  !!!! https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33042353113.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000023.4.3c6e4056Fsb9L6


This is a equipment is more adecwate for Kangatoo task i think. Kangaaroo needed a PETA and Terra hash per second not mega or giga.


What you think about this ? ? ?

Bro without ASIC support progect will have not ggod future I think. Because keys 150 Buyts not awaliable for GPU, no one have a 100 or 200 GPUs.

I think it is better to use the maximum available power and this power is not provided by the GPU but ASIC's

Br
Maybe BitCrack help you for asic design systems, ask BitCrack about this

13sXkWqtivcMtNGQpskD78iqsgVy9hcHLF
COBRAS
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 861
Merit: 22

$$P2P BTC BRUTE.JOIN NOW ! https://uclck.me/SQPJk


View Profile
June 02, 2020, 03:06:09 PM
 #646

ASIC means Application-Specific Integrated Circuit which means that you have to build a dedicated electronic component to do the job, you probably want to say FPGA ?
I have only a little experience with FPGA programming and powerful development boards are rather expensive, maybe I can try to get one from my job, I don't know but this is not yet planned...



Yes Buddy !https://www.aliexpress.com/popular/asic-bitcoin-miner.html

Buddy Bitcoin ASIC miner old used core a1 25Th/s  !!!! https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33042353113.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000023.4.3c6e4056Fsb9L6


This is a equipment is more adecwate for Kangatoo task i think. Kangaaroo needed a PETA and Terra hash per second not mega or giga.


What you think about this ? ? ?

Bro without ASIC support progect will have not ggod future I think. Because keys 150 Buyts not awaliable for GPU, no one have a 100 or 200 GPUs.

I think it is better to use the maximum available power and this power is not provided by the GPU but ASIC's

Br
Jean luc and zeiler will arrange more then 2000 GPU's, they have source, COBRAS just enjoy all development, and test it as its available

You already anjoy Huh You have a 100 GPU ? Hahahahahaha

ASIC'S have many configuration not only for hashing.

$$$ P2P NETWORK FOR BTC WALLET.DAT BRUTE F ORCE .JOIN NOW=GET MANY COINS NOW !!!
https://github.com/phrutis/LostWallet  https://t.me/+2niP9bQ8uu43MDg6
COBRAS
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 861
Merit: 22

$$P2P BTC BRUTE.JOIN NOW ! https://uclck.me/SQPJk


View Profile
June 02, 2020, 03:08:11 PM
 #647

As said by MrFreeDragon this kind of ASIC is dedicated to hashing only and Kangaroo has nothing to do with hashing. To my knowledge no ASIC exist for ECDSA calculation...


Think about ASIC's please buddy ! OpenCL is utopia, I'm sorry for your time and effort. it's better then to bring the CUDA version to perfection.

$$$ P2P NETWORK FOR BTC WALLET.DAT BRUTE F ORCE .JOIN NOW=GET MANY COINS NOW !!!
https://github.com/phrutis/LostWallet  https://t.me/+2niP9bQ8uu43MDg6
brainless
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 316
Merit: 34


View Profile
June 02, 2020, 03:20:54 PM
 #648

As said by MrFreeDragon this kind of ASIC is dedicated to hashing only and Kangaroo has nothing to do with hashing. To my knowledge no ASIC exist for ECDSA calculation...


Think about ASIC's please buddy ! OpenCL is utopia, I'm sorry for your time and effort. it's better then to bring the CUDA version to perfection.
Jean Luc and bitcrack
No Asic please, its just waste a time
do more on dp research, as just before bitcrack suggested dp settings for 115, there is lot of work pending on dp settings based on bit ranges etc
again NO Asic please

13sXkWqtivcMtNGQpskD78iqsgVy9hcHLF
COBRAS
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 861
Merit: 22

$$P2P BTC BRUTE.JOIN NOW ! https://uclck.me/SQPJk


View Profile
June 02, 2020, 03:23:45 PM
Last edit: June 02, 2020, 03:35:05 PM by COBRAS
 #649

As said by MrFreeDragon this kind of ASIC is dedicated to hashing only and Kangaroo has nothing to do with hashing. To my knowledge no ASIC exist for ECDSA calculation...


High-Performance CUDA Kernel Execution on FPGAs/ p.s.  FPGA 4xFaster then CUDA GPU

https://cadlab.cs.ucla.edu/~cong/papers/FCUDA_extAbstract_ICS09_final3.pdf

Jast for Ex. There are many prommable ASICS and ASICS with FPGA

FPGA Miner https://www.ebay.com/itm/BlackMiner-F1-FPGA-Better-than-Bitmain-Antminer-ASIC-UK-In-Hand-w-PSU-and-SD/124207553835?hash=item1ceb58dd2b:g:nMgAAOSwT9lcq7AE

"FPGAs can be uploaded with a public or a private bitstream(s) so that you can mine a new algorithm (you can't do this with ASICs). "

$$$ P2P NETWORK FOR BTC WALLET.DAT BRUTE F ORCE .JOIN NOW=GET MANY COINS NOW !!!
https://github.com/phrutis/LostWallet  https://t.me/+2niP9bQ8uu43MDg6
j2002ba2
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 204
Merit: 437


View Profile
June 02, 2020, 03:26:32 PM
 #650

IMO OpenCL on AMD would work only if written in assembler. I lost the race for #90 because of it. One week of random hard lock-up. And the worst. Wrong computations. Totally unusable. (It might have a chance to work properly with newer hardware, and a specific driver version, but I highly doubt.)

I looked last year at FPGA, and it will be slower than current top-end GPUs, costing much more for the same performance (per chip).

As for an ASIC, if it ever is done, I expect 3x performance per chip price compared to GPU. The performance per watt would be way better, maybe 50x. It might be feasible only after bitcoin price goes above $5M, making new chip costs millions. There's a huge disadvantage - unlike mining chips it would be used only one-two times.
brainless
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 316
Merit: 34


View Profile
June 02, 2020, 03:30:11 PM
 #651

As said by MrFreeDragon this kind of ASIC is dedicated to hashing only and Kangaroo has nothing to do with hashing. To my knowledge no ASIC exist for ECDSA calculation...


High-Performance CUDA Kernel Execution on FPGAs/ p.s.  FPGA 4xFaster then CUDA GPU

https://cadlab.cs.ucla.edu/~cong/papers/FCUDA_extAbstract_ICS09_final3.pdf

there is more then 35 company asic devices, min 10 company ASIC/FPGA devices and developer fee you can pay to developer for your personal needs, thats best solution

13sXkWqtivcMtNGQpskD78iqsgVy9hcHLF
BitCrack
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 30
Merit: 122


View Profile
June 02, 2020, 03:31:03 PM
 #652

I think some people are drastically underestimating the cost of producing an ASIC. ASICs cost millions of dollars to design and manufacture.

FPGAs are a possibility. I'm not sure how much faster an FPGA will be than a GPU though. You will basically be re-creating the hardware multipliers that already exist on the GPU.
COBRAS
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 861
Merit: 22

$$P2P BTC BRUTE.JOIN NOW ! https://uclck.me/SQPJk


View Profile
June 02, 2020, 03:31:23 PM
 #653

As said by MrFreeDragon this kind of ASIC is dedicated to hashing only and Kangaroo has nothing to do with hashing. To my knowledge no ASIC exist for ECDSA calculation...


High-Performance CUDA Kernel Execution on FPGAs/ p.s.  FPGA 4xFaster then CUDA GPU

https://cadlab.cs.ucla.edu/~cong/papers/FCUDA_extAbstract_ICS09_final3.pdf

there is more then 35 company asic devices, min 10 company ASIC/FPGA devices and developer fee you can pay to developer for your personal needs, thats best solution

You can start go to this 35 companys )))) Your post is a joke I think...

$$$ P2P NETWORK FOR BTC WALLET.DAT BRUTE F ORCE .JOIN NOW=GET MANY COINS NOW !!!
https://github.com/phrutis/LostWallet  https://t.me/+2niP9bQ8uu43MDg6
brainless
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 316
Merit: 34


View Profile
June 02, 2020, 03:43:21 PM
 #654

As said by MrFreeDragon this kind of ASIC is dedicated to hashing only and Kangaroo has nothing to do with hashing. To my knowledge no ASIC exist for ECDSA calculation...


High-Performance CUDA Kernel Execution on FPGAs/ p.s.  FPGA 4xFaster then CUDA GPU

https://cadlab.cs.ucla.edu/~cong/papers/FCUDA_extAbstract_ICS09_final3.pdf

there is more then 35 company asic devices, min 10 company ASIC/FPGA devices and developer fee you can pay to developer for your personal needs, thats best solution

You can start go to this 35 companys )))) Your post is a joke I think...
2 most senior developer explain all facts and figure about your Q in details, and you still unable to understand, i think they are trying to educate but joker love to listen jokes only

13sXkWqtivcMtNGQpskD78iqsgVy9hcHLF
MrFreeDragon
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 443
Merit: 350


View Profile
June 02, 2020, 04:06:50 PM
 #655

As said by MrFreeDragon this kind of ASIC is dedicated to hashing only and Kangaroo has nothing to do with hashing. To my knowledge no ASIC exist for ECDSA calculation...


High-Performance CUDA Kernel Execution on FPGAs/ p.s.  FPGA 4xFaster then CUDA GPU

https://cadlab.cs.ucla.edu/~cong/papers/FCUDA_extAbstract_ICS09_final3.pdf

Jast for Ex. There are many prommable ASICS and ASICS with FPGA

FPGA Miner https://www.ebay.com/itm/BlackMiner-F1-FPGA-Better-than-Bitmain-Antminer-ASIC-UK-In-Hand-w-PSU-and-SD/124207553835?hash=item1ceb58dd2b:g:nMgAAOSwT9lcq7AE

"FPGAs can be uploaded with a public or a private bitstream(s) so that you can mine a new algorithm (you can't do this with ASICs). "

If the price of equipment and cost of technology implementation does not important for you, better have a look at quantum computers. Instead of normal bits (with 2 possible values 0 or 1) they operate with quibits: could be represented as a sphere with many many many different states.

How do you think, will quantum computer will be faster than ASIC?  Wink

COBRAS
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 861
Merit: 22

$$P2P BTC BRUTE.JOIN NOW ! https://uclck.me/SQPJk


View Profile
June 02, 2020, 04:22:39 PM
 #656

As said by MrFreeDragon this kind of ASIC is dedicated to hashing only and Kangaroo has nothing to do with hashing. To my knowledge no ASIC exist for ECDSA calculation...


High-Performance CUDA Kernel Execution on FPGAs/ p.s.  FPGA 4xFaster then CUDA GPU

https://cadlab.cs.ucla.edu/~cong/papers/FCUDA_extAbstract_ICS09_final3.pdf

Jast for Ex. There are many prommable ASICS and ASICS with FPGA

FPGA Miner https://www.ebay.com/itm/BlackMiner-F1-FPGA-Better-than-Bitmain-Antminer-ASIC-UK-In-Hand-w-PSU-and-SD/124207553835?hash=item1ceb58dd2b:g:nMgAAOSwT9lcq7AE

"FPGAs can be uploaded with a public or a private bitstream(s) so that you can mine a new algorithm (you can't do this with ASICs). "

If the price of equipment and cost of technology implementation does not important for you, better have a look at quantum computers. Instead of normal bits (with 2 possible values 0 or 1) they operate with quibits: could be represented as a sphere with many many many different states.

How do you think, will quantum computer will be faster than ASIC?  Wink

Qantum computer now for send signal to enoter galxy ))) No, notcommutation this is intresting for education, because not all peoe know about 2+3<>3+2 (If you cnoq quantums I thik you know  what in qant wolrd 2+3 qantr not equel 3+2 qants !!!) F.... But, my exact opinion, GPU for making 10trillions operation is not so good like ald ASIC with FPGA.

So, in my opinion only, most wanted targets for Kangaroo progect is a cilen-server(witjout bugs and fine worked) and FPGA-ASIC''S

And I think interesting idea to implement Hensel's Lift like in this code to kangaroo for finding ranges for ex. https://github.com/elliptic-shiho/ecpy/blob/ccdb872124ca2c218b8a7261a2956efd5ec83705/ecpy/elliptic_curve/sssa_attack.py#L1

$$$ P2P NETWORK FOR BTC WALLET.DAT BRUTE F ORCE .JOIN NOW=GET MANY COINS NOW !!!
https://github.com/phrutis/LostWallet  https://t.me/+2niP9bQ8uu43MDg6
arulbero
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1915
Merit: 2074


View Profile
June 02, 2020, 04:47:01 PM
Last edit: June 02, 2020, 05:22:46 PM by arulbero
 #657

DP count is most important. You are running at DP 25, so it will take 2^57 (whatever expected group ops is for 115) - 2^25 (your DP setting) so roughly you want your DP count up to 2^32 to be getting close to solving.

I have files for DP 30.  So I need to get close to 2^27 to be getting close to solving. 2^57(expected ops) - 2^30(my DP setting) = 2^27 DP count .

To be precise, 2^57(expected ops) / 2^30(my DP setting) = 2^(57-30) = 2^27 DP count .

There are 3 phases in this algorithm:

phase 1)

to generate a collision, you need to form on average N couples of points (T, W) to get 1 couple with the same point, a collision (exploiting the birthday paradox)

that because in a space of N points there are N possible couples with the same point among N^2 possible couples, then the chance to get a collision each time you generate a couple (T, W) is N/N^2 = 1/N ,  thefor you need N tries to get a collision.

To form N couple, you need 2 lists of sqrt(N) points each (because sqrt(N) * sqrt(N) = N)

This is the heaviest part of the algorithm, 2*sqrt(N) steps; thefor the idea is to parallelize this task, and at this stage parallelization is ok, especially for the gpus.  


phase 2)

you cannot compare each couple of points you generate, because there are N possible combinations before to get a collision, too much;  

the idea is to choose each jump in such a way that the next point depends only by the current point, this trick makes an occasional collision between 2 kangaroos permanent and we don't need to check every point against all the others to know if a collision has happened.

To 'fix' a delay between the moment of the collision (after about 2*sqrt(N) steps) and the moment of the detection of the collision we store the distinguished points. On average a 30 bit distinguished point is met each 2^30 steps. Only then we can know if that kangaroo has collide with another one.

These phase is strange: if you are using a cpu, a delay of 2^30 steps is nothing, a single core of a cpu can perform 2^30 steps in a few minutes.

But for the slow gpu is not the same, like BitCrack noted:

That 2^27 figure assumes the average walk length is 2^30. The GPU works by doing many slow walks in parallel e.g. 60 million walks that do 20 iterations per second. At that rate, it will take 2^30 / 20 seconds = 1.7 years before any of the walks are 2^30. Your DP count is going to be a few powers of 2 higher than 27.

On the other hand, the choice of the distinguished points is not only about a delay, it is about the storage too, because we can't store 2*sqrt(N) points (if we could, we would use the BSGS algorithm, that is faster and that finds the key surely).


With a high DP value we realize a low frequent sampling, then we have few samples to store in the hash table, but we waste a lot of time with the gpu (overhead).

With a lower DP value we realize a high frequent sampling, but we have to deal with the limit of our RAM.

You can see at the DP value at this way too: how much you need to reduce the points (among the 2*sqrt(N) points generated) to put in the hash table ?

DP = 2^30 means you choose to reduce by a factor of 2^30 the storage of the 2^57 points needed the get a collision (2^57 / 2^30 = 2^27 DP in the hash table). But in this way you delay by 2^30 steps the detection of the collision (and you increase by a factor of 2^30  the waste of the computation power, 2^30 steps * number of kangaroos in parallel, all these steps are useless because they are realized after the collision has already happened)

In the Zielar's case, from what I understood, there were about 2^33 kangaroos in parallel and DP = 22, N = 2^109 then:

total steps:  2*sqrt(2^109) = 2^55.5

hash table: 2^55.5 / 2^22 = 2^33.5

number of steps generated by each computing unit in parallel: 2^55.5 / 2^33 = 2^22.5, then each computing unit has generated on average 1,4 kangaroo (1,4 walk from start to the end point, DP)  


phase 3)

When we know which wild kangaroo collides, if we don't know the distance covered by that kangaroo we only need to redo the steps of that kangaroo until the DP, and with a cpu this work can be rapidily finished.
HardwareCollector
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 144
Merit: 10


View Profile
June 02, 2020, 05:12:52 PM
 #658

@arulbero

Well said, the information above should be very useful for those new to the area.

Also as it relates to FPGAs, those are more suited for binary curves; and GPUs such as RTX 2080Tis, RX Vega 64, and the likes are well suited for prime curves $ for $.

If you would like to play around with FPGAs and ECDSA (secp256k1), everything you need to start is right here:
https://github.com/ZcashFoundation/zcash-fpga
arulbero
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1915
Merit: 2074


View Profile
June 02, 2020, 05:17:25 PM
Last edit: June 02, 2020, 05:27:39 PM by arulbero
 #659

Someone can confirm these numbers? I'm curious:


In the Zielar's case, from what I understood, there were about 2^33 kangaroos in parallel and DP = 22, N = 2^109 then:

total steps:  2*sqrt(2^109) = 2^55.5

hash table: 2^55.5 / 2^22 = 2^33.5

number of steps generated by each computing unit in parallel: 2^55.5 / 2^33 = 2^22.5, then each computing unit has generated on average 1,4 kangaroo (1,4 walk from the start to the end point, DP) before to get a collision

How many steps to retrieve #110?
Jean_Luc (OP)
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 462
Merit: 696


View Profile
June 02, 2020, 05:25:36 PM
 #660

Zielar solved #110 by merging 2 files of 2^29.55 DP each = 2^30.55 => DP25 => total of 2^(30.55 + 25) operations = ~2^(109/2+1) , a little bit after the average.

Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 [33] 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 ... 142 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!