Anybody here trying to live bankless (using Bitcoin / cryptocurrencies)?

[d5000]

I am currently investigating possibilities to replace the classic bank account by a set of Bitcoin and cryptocurrency tools, above all for people having difficulties to find a fitting bank. Thus, I'm interested in stories and advice of people who are already trying to live only with Bitcoin and cryptocurrency, or at least to use cryptocurrencies for some of their regular expenses.

If there are already "bankless" people here, it would be interesting which services and tools you use. For example:

• Do you use centralized payment services like Bitcoin-filled prepaid cards?
• Is LN for you already an option?
• How do you manage the volatility risk? For example, do you use stablecoins, options or a centralized fiat wallet?
• What about DeFi?
• Do you get some kind of loans outside the banking system, for example, via P2P services?
• How do you deal with taxes and other service payments where the providers often require bank accounts?
• Instead of using banking services, do you have to rely a lot on (fiat) cash?

And so on.

I'm also interested in opinions, but not too trivial/general ones

My opinion: I see great potential in a crypto-based, decentralized banking solution. The biggest obstacle is currently volatility - while it may seem everything's alright when price is going up, I think nobody wants to have to worry that (s)he'll lose half of the value of their salary until the end of the month. I'm currently investigating options and derivatives for this purpose.

PS: I have started a Spanish and a German thread about possible tools and solutions for "bankless" people. Maybe an English thread will follow.

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[jackg]

I'm considerign experimenting with using my coinbase card for my next semester with ~£200 preloaded on my wallet for the 20 weeks just to see if it's possible... I use my phone to pay for stuff everywhere anyway so it makes it easier.

I don't trust stablecoins much yet, we seemed to have USDT selling for 86 cents for a while which would also be rediculous for stability. I don't think it's possible to live without a bank account as most companies say they want to receive funds form an accoutn with your name on it (and even though it's rarely tracked, sometimes it is).

I've recently tried defi on a recommendation and have funds in there a while, haven't tried to withdraw yet though - interest rates also look to have fallen which is good for lenders and traders but bad for investors - still 4% on usd isn't bad. I think the ideas of creating bitcoin credit cards though are still a while away but I've seen some already (although I'm not sure I'd trust them - like crypto.com).

If you're trying to go completely unbanked, I don't think anyone's managed it without needing some sort of cash reserves (or potentially gold/other assets) just to ensure they're not wiped out one day with a huge crash.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Ah, I think I'm way too old school and too set in my ways to try to go bankless--and I freely admit that this is a defect, a lack of adventurousness on my part.  I certainly can't say I like banks or even trust them, but they've been working for me for many years and at this point I don't have any desire to do things differently. 

It's one thing to abandon the use of banks out of a desire for financial freedom and another thing entirely to do so out of necessity.  I'm not sure even the world's unbanked has turned to crypto as a solution.  If there are a significant number of people who can't get banking services for whatever reason and use bitcoin (or some other crypto) instead, I'd be interested to hear about it.

Good luck in your quest, OP.  I am by no means trying to disparage your efforts.

[LeGaulois]

I did it for 3 months by using a BTC prepaid card. Difficult to do something else as long the shops don't accept Bitcoin as a payment means. And while it may look "bankless", it isn't in reality, I mean we still make use of a3rd party (Visa/Mastercard)

You may find yourself limited in its use, for example, to pay the recurring payments (for water, electricity, landlord, insurance, etc). As it's usually paid with a bank transfer, it's extremely difficult or impossible to do otherwise.
Ok for the groceries at the supermarket, ATMs but other than that. Same sometimes if you want to book a hotel, rent a car, you may have difficulties.

I'm virgin with stablecoins because I'm not interested in, and the volatility isn't something that worried me. I loaded only what I need and used it the same hour. It's like with exchanges, you don't store a lot of money in, just what is needed.

[gentlemand]

If there were a way of avoiding fiat payments completely then I'd do it. Since there isn't then no.

I'd be dependent on third party services to handle that and most of the options in cryptoland aren't competent enough to place my entire life's necessities in. All it takes is one dirty phone call and that debit card you have thousands on suddenly becomes useless.

Why use a shitty 'bank' that could implode any second? May as well use a large and established one.

[countryfree]

I don't know where you live, but in Europe, it's impossible to register a car, or buy a house without a bank account.
I also believe it's impossible to pay tax without one, but I have limited experience with tax.

[ShowOff]

Life without a bank account and using bitcoin as a means of payment in my opinion is a big revolution. I am sure LN will also be very helpful to implement this idea.

But living without a bank account in a country that prohibits bitcoin as a legal payment tool in my opinion is not a good thing, although we can still do it secretly but the adoption rate is still very low.

The pandemic problem also allows bitcoin users to temporarily store their bank accounts and carry out all transactions with bitcoin such as the use of LN and so on, but that will happen to countries that legalize bitcoin as a legal payment tool. This is a good revolution and will also increase the adoption of bitcoin as a means of payment in several countries that legalize it.

[Averim]

In my opinion bankless means no need for money or living in a society where money is worthless. I like the concept of bankless life or benefit only from what i work but it wont be possible. I belive banks became part of our lives and unfortunately everything is connected to it no matter what you are willing to do because everywhere everybody asks for money, in most cases, is i ask for a product or service.

[kawetsriyanto]

It is impossible to live bankless in my country. Here, Bitcoin isn't allowed to be a payment tool, so how can we live without banks. We must use fiats to pay for everything, so our Bitcoin must be converted into fiats. And we know, fiats are made by banks. It means as long as we use fiats, we cannot live without banks.  (No idea to live bankless here, mate. At least for now)

[d5000]

Thank you for your opinions already, above all @LeGaulois and @jackg who shared their personal experiences!

I have included two new options in the poll, "In the past" and "I am planning it", this would have been the perfect answer for you both to differentiate from those who only "want" to live bankless but never did it nor are actively planning it.

I have also added a new question, from several opinions here: How do you deal with taxes and other service payments where the providers often require bank accounts?

For myself, I have some options in my country to pay my phone bill, Internet and electricity with Bitcoin and often use them (but not always). These options are provided, however, by centrally managed payment companies, at least two of them have a crypto background. I am mostly living with fiat, though, so I answered the option 2. For example, my taxes can't be paid in or via Bitcoin but only with a bank account or a locally issued credit/debit card, for some not even cash is possible.

It's one thing to abandon the use of banks out of a desire for financial freedom and another thing entirely to do so out of necessity.

This is certainly an important point. Those with large Bitcoin holdings, or even those that can live completely or mostly from what they mined in 2010, can live bankless without too many concerns about volatility, they likely would have to use bank accounts only as "payment processors" for taxes and public services. The "Unbanked" however, mostly need a tool which ensures they would not lose in a Bitcoin crash. Even stablecoins may be still too unsafe for them. On the other hand, there may be people in countries where a majority is unbanked, or where the state currency has failed (e.g. Venezuela) who own some cryptocurrencies - these opinions would be very interesting for this thread.

Anyway I think it would be much easier to provide a Bitcoin-based "(mostly) bankless solution" for the upper middle class upwards than one that really suits the needs of the lower classes.

[hatshepsut93]

In our days living bankless is like trying to write a novel without using the letter "e" - possible, but extremely hard. It can be interesting to some people who might view it as some sort of entertainment, similar to climbing a mountain or hiking in the woods. I never even spend cryptocurrency in real life yet, despite being into Bitcoin for 4 years already, so I personally can't imagine living even a day without fiat payments.

And I second what LeGaulois said, using Bitcoin cards is the same as using banks, so it shouldn't count.

[bearexin]

I don’t have plans to live on cryptocurrency, I also don’t we the possibility of that.
First of all, cryptocurrency is a volatile asset and if I should move all my money into it I might wake a day to the unexpected, so I am not going to try that. I only store an amount I’m comfortable with in my cryptocurrency wallet.

There are also lots of digital banks popping up these days that I have seen, and I have used a few of them. They are quite interesting, but moving my money to such platforms is something I can’t do. I do know that a lot of us don’t like banks because of some issues they might have had with them, but they still remain a safe place to keep your money (I have not had issues with my bank though).

[bdbountyon]

I mostly avoid bank but some restriction are in place. Living completely bankless is impossible in my country. It is not possible to pay electricity bill, mobile bill or pay taxes without bank account. Cryptocurrency is not completely autonomous. Exchanges are not avoiding KYC requrements. But I think there will be more freedom for cryptocurrency in near future.

[415jeremy]

Living absolutely "bankless" seems to be impossible now. As a small business owner I can't go without my bank account. Plus we all need fiat for everyday purchases. My way to becoming "bankless" has started with using cryptos for long-term investments and wealth storage.

[verita1]

I have voted for the option: partially because all my income is based on Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies so I need my bank account to pay for my goods and services.
My dream is an App that allows me to make all my payments, keep my crypto portfolio and money in the bank account all in one place.
I have created my mechanism as follows:
1) I receive my payment (Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies)
2) I sell an amount of Bitcoin and the rest for my portfolio.
I choose Platforms like Binance, Cryptoway among others to get FIAT.

I have heard about DeFi and the model I know by reference from some friends in Nigeria is First Kudi App
https://firstkudi.com/

An App where you can manage your bank account and cryptocurrencies. They has also offered its users a prepaid debit card with cryptocurrencies that is accepted in shops.
A solution like this would be perfect for me.

[abhiseshakana]

I am among those who do not save money in the bank. My wife can not see the silent money in my savings, so I keep my money in my (crypto) wallet account. My wife is a person who dares to take big risks in doing business, she can't see the money standing in the account, she will always rotate the money to buy things to sell later (especially when the value of the goods goes down). She always thinks that money should not stop in savings because the true function of money is as a transaction tool. The more money that accumulates in savings, the more difficult the economy to spin. She only left USD500 for savings just in case and even then he saved in cash, of course after all household needs are met child health insurance and school fees and children's tutoring is the most important.

In my mind, BANKING is good but the bank is the devil. So I only use the facilities owned by the bank for export and import payments, but once payment from the buyer enters I will immediately transfer to the supplier and withdraw cash with no savings left except the minimum value of USD 0.08. LOL

[sheenshane]

snipped-
In my mind, BANKING is good but the bank is the devil. ..

I tend to agree and you have a point on this, a Bankless world isn't a bad idea at all for it can expedite transactions and lessen charges when using a DeFi(Decentralized Finance) for online transactions and a lot more. Managing your finances without going through a bank may be possible but not too soon for DeFi are not yet globally accepted nor known in some rural areas especially in third world countries where the internet is not being serviced countrywide.

In third world countries where mostly fiat money is used to purchase commodities it may be hard for them to adapt to this financial management or welcome it with a warm hug. Myself finds it difficult to totally be in cryptocurrency or Bitcoin for most of the time I shop and do transaction personally but if the time comes for cryptocurrency to be the only thing we can use then I'll be more than happy to accept it since it has a lot of advantages.

[Gozie51]

Living absolutely "bankless" seems to be impossible now. As a small business owner I can't go without my bank account. Plus we all need fiat for everyday purchases. My way to becoming "bankless" has started with using cryptos for long-term investments and wealth storage.

Really impossible for now. It could only be possible if fiat has gone to rest. We all understand that there are little products or commodities that will be difficult to transact with bitcoin. The internet connection too is a very big something for certain people to use.

[shoreno]

actually weve been not using banks for a long time now ever since my parents got bankrupt  . now we are now living on a poor life so i decided to take risk here joining cryptos in the hopes of getting an income from trades and investments . after cryptos became well known , many merchants already accept it so i also use my crypto and avoid using fiat or something that are related to banks  .  i think most of the people join here on crypto because they want to live a bankless life  but few could still be using both

[d5000]

I have voted for the option: partially because all my income is based on Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies so I need my bank account to pay for my goods and services.

You wrote that you normally would convert a part of your crypto income into fiat. It would be interesting how you deal with bear markets - normally these should affect your income significantly. Do you then apply some kind of hedging strategy (trying to lower you exposure to volatility), or do you simply accept a lower income for some time? It's these hedging strategies that are interesting for me, because bear markets currently are one of the biggest problesm for a "bankless" living with crypto.

My dream is an App that allows me to make all my payments, keep my crypto portfolio and money in the bank account all in one place. [...] I have heard about DeFi and the model I know by reference from some friends in Nigeria is First Kudi App.

These kind of services are slowly getting more popular (there is also Bitwala for example with a similar model), but I would classify them - like Bitcoin debit cards - simply as centralized "banks with Bitcoin services". So they're not really "DeFi". (DeFi are blockchain contracts, mostly to exchange risk for potential profit). One problem these services have is that, due to regulations, they normally only can accept clients from certain countries. A truly decentralized service would not need this restriction, but he also won't be able to offer a bank account or even a card (today all prepaid card companies do at least some basic KYC afaik).

What's interesting about First Kudi is their point-of-sale integration - if most businesses would use these kinds of services it would be much easier to live bankless.