Anybody here trying to live bankless (using Bitcoin / cryptocurrencies)?

[gentlemand]

So they're not really "DeFi". (DeFi are blockchain contracts, mostly to exchange risk for potential profit).

No way would I ever depend on DeFi for anything other than the fluffiest of play money. They keep getting hacked. On top of that the 'decentralised insurance' I've read about did not pay out funnily enough.

That's best left to researchers and nutters, no way would I run my actual life through it.

[1715281904]

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[1715281904]

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[fudster]

Kudi seems to be just for Africans.

Very difficult not to have a bank unless there are merchants directly accepting BTC or altcoins we have in our wallets.

There was a video where Cardano is accepted in a grocery store, that would be nice if its also accepted in all stores then I would probably fill my bag with Cardano. Sadly it's not what is going on.

[beerlover]

Not at all I need my bank account is basically very similar to "would like to but difficult" as well. I have voted for the would like to but its difficult option because I would love to be totally free from banks but I can't since there is really no way to do that right now. I need to pay for some stuff with fiat and that is mainly requiring me to cash out all I earn from bitcoin to fiat eventually. However I do pay my vacations with bitcoin for example, you know why?

Because I can, and that is literally the only thing I need to spend bitcoin, if I can, I will, as long as I have that option that is good enough reason to spend bitcoin to me. However "not at all I need my bank account" is basically the same, if you need your bank account, that kinda means bitcoin is not enough for you.

[d5000]

No way would I ever depend on DeFi for anything other than the fluffiest of play money. They keep getting hacked. On top of that the 'decentralised insurance' I've read about did not pay out funnily enough.

The problem with current DeFi implementations is ... that most of them are not really DeFi but CeFi . They're centralized services operating with centralized smart contracts which are run by all full nodes but have a single owner. Some can be hacked for this reason. Dai is an example - the CFD contracts are set up in a way where a central account could close down the whole system. These contracts are transparent and the owners cannot run away with the money normally, but they continue to have a single point of failure. Other contracts surely are programmed in a sloppy way (does anybody remember TheDao ?).

I've still to investigate if with Bitcoin Script contracts options or CFDs can be realized, perhaps using a system very similar to Lightning which is aware of all blockchains that it needs to track (a kind of "optional atomic swap"). If this was possible, it would allow real DeFi. However, anything that uses oracles because it tracks fiat prices always will have a centralized component.

[Rengga Jati]

I am currently investigating possibilities to replace the classic bank account by a set of Bitcoin and cryptocurrency tools, ..

This is actually a quite difficult thing to do, especially in some countries that have not legalized or accepted cryptocurrency as a means of payment.
Personally, for now, I do not have any idea to move to bankless. I still need my bank account, as for some conditions.

...I see great potential in a crypto-based, decentralized banking solution. The biggest obstacle is currently volatility

Unfortunately, it is not fully because of the volatility, but the regulation. Well, yeah, but indeed I live in a country that only legalizes crypto as a digital asset. Meanwhile, as a means of payment, it is still not allowed. Of course, this is very influential in the use of crypto (especially Bitcoin) in this country. Fiat is still a major and central manner of payments. Our central bank also still does not regulate the crypto as a currency. The regulation is that we can buy and trade or make it as an investment, but for payment, not yet.

What's more, our government also hasn't seen how big the future of Bitcoin in this country. Actually it is unfortunate, however, looking at how the regulation is and how the general condition of the people in our country is indeed reasonable.

For the future expectation, of course, I really expect that crypto (mainly Bitcoin) is accepted as one of the legal currencies in my country, at least, there are many commerces that accept this coin as one of the payment manners. However, of course, it is also back again to government regulation. But, I really don't know when it will be.  

[eaLiTy]

The general sentiment from all the above response is that it is impossible to live a life without the banking system, if you are running a business or an employee you need to have a bank account to accept the funds. Even if you like it or not you are bound to use it one way or the other and unless you do not need a bank loan and have plenty of wealth to survive without any credits can think of this situation.

On the other hand, there may be people in countries where a majority is unbanked, or where the state currency has failed (e.g. Venezuela) who own some cryptocurrencies - these opinions would be very interesting for this thread.

This is a common word that has become a trend in the BTCitcoin space since its inception, to help the unbanked, citing examples of Africa and other poor countries, but the fact is that people living under poverty is not even bothered to start a bank account is because they might be earning wages on a daily basis and there is nothing to save in a savings account and you cannot expect them to invest their money in a volatile market. When it comes to places like Venezuela, yes it is a failed state and people usually use US dollars instead of the local currency, i have been to Iran and their currency is not having any valuation because of their economic situation and during my stay i was using UAE Dirham and all the shops i went were displaying the price in Dirham as well as in Iranian Rial and they are happy accepting Dirhams.

If BTCitcoin could sort these issues it is well and good but we need to go a long way to see that happen, any way good luck with your investigating .

 

[countryfree]

I've been studying how to make my own electricity with solar panels, so I may avoid electricity bills, but there's water, and I was surprised to learn that I can pay my water bills with cash, but I have to go to the company office, which is more than 2 hours away. So, it's not very convenient... Last but not the least, there's property tax which definitely requires a bank account, and I can't imagine this to change in the foreseeable future.

Then I'm surprised nobody has talked about to get paid. I have several sources of income, but they all come via bank wires. And I can't change that.

[kryptqnick]

If it were an easy option, I would go for it. Right now, it truly impossible for me. I receive my salary and university scholarship to different bank accounts (I have, like, 5 bank accounts or so because every institution that gives you money chooses the bank account for its employees in my country which is very inconvenient). Apart from that, as a person outside of the EU who lived in the EU for a year and intends to live for another half a year in the future, I need to make savings on my bank account to get a chance of getting my visa. The system pushes me to use bank accounts, and it's extremely hard not to in my country.

[brotherwood12]

I really want to try do bankless , but in my country just few think that can get payment with cryptocurrency , so the bank account really matter here
sad

[royalfestus]

IMO staying in all the position of the currency (fiat, stable coin and BTC) at a percentage might be a good decision. I understand that most old investors were majorly in fiat in the bear market, stable coin in USDT is still the most reliable, even in conversion to fiat, the coin has enough physical cash to defend its value and all world financial value is still placed in USDT. It remain the most traded coin in space for a long time and strong effect on bitcoin.

[sensimilia]

For what? What i will get if start to live bankless?

[FanatMonet]

Bitcoin is one of my main sources of income, at the moment. But there is no place to use it in my country, just translate it into fiat, or look for people who would agree to accept it, but there are quite a few, even among those who have cryptocurrencies.

[bitbunnny]

I can't live only with Bitcoin and I beleive for many it's the same. I have a steady job and I receive my salary in fiat. I still need fiat money to cover all expenses for my daily needs and Bitcoin is not accepted enough and it's not regulated.
It's not only about banks, as long as Bitcoin isn't a part of world economy and financial system we can't live just on it, without using fiat money too. Unfortunately, I don't think that this situation is going to change soon.

[tvplus006]

I believe that we will have such an opportunity to refuse the Bank in the near future, when Visa and Binance launch their debit card. This way you can pay for any goods and services where a Visa is accepted. But if you are connected with a business, you will not be able to refuse the Bank's services.

[coolcoinz]

I've been living partially bankless for a few years now, paying for everything with cash and using BTC for online payments like buying stuff on Amazon and getting cash from some trusted partners of mine who are always willing to buy more Bitcoin. It's somewhat a pain, because I have to go to the post office or a local bank branch to pay property tax and bills, but the experiment has been going well. I'm a rebel in these things so when most people around me pay with credit cards I have good old cash at hand.

[d5000]

Unfortunately, it is not fully because of the volatility, but the regulation. Well, yeah, but indeed I live in a country that only legalizes crypto as a digital asset. [...] Our central bank also still does not regulate the crypto as a currency. The regulation is that we can buy and trade or make it as an investment, but for payment, not yet.

I agree that regulations can complicate a "bankless life with crypto" in some countries. In other regions, however, this is not an issue. The regulation of your country seems a little bit strange however: aren't you allowed to barter an asset for another (without money intermediation)? I ask this because if Bitcoin is regulated as an "asset" or "good", and not as "money", then I interpret that paying something with Bitcoin would be barter. I know however that there are some countries where bartering is a grey area, and others that explicitly forbid payments with cryptocurrencies.

For what? What i will get if start to live bankless?

Independence. This matters, especially for people who:

- aren't accepted by banks at all (e.g. because they lack a permanent address)
- are accepted only if they accept unfavourable conditions (in most cases, a high monthly fee) - e.g. because they are indebted
- do not want to expose themselves to the risk of the bank getting broke and/or losing money because of a state tax on bank holdings (e.g. Cyprus some years ago)

There is also sometimes a (small) risk that the bank cancels your account without you necessarily having done anything wrong - only that your habits are seen as risky for them or they don't make enough profit with you.

I'm not saying that banks are evil - but I question the level of dependence on them, in our modern Capitalist system. Banks are businesses, they're not charities (at least most of them are not, and charity-like banks do not exist everywhere) and thus have to care about their profitability - so their behaviour is understandable. But: There should be a real alternative, apart from cash. I for myself also cannot still live without banks - while I could in theory live with crypto/cash, some tax payments in my country are only allowed via bank wire.

[...] the fact is that people living under poverty is not even bothered to start a bank account is because they might be earning wages on a daily basis and there is nothing to save in a savings account and you cannot expect them to invest their money in a volatile market.

Exactly, that's why I'm interested in hedging solutions to be protected from volatility. Simply living with Bitcoin, without any hedging, would be economical suicide for most people (even in not-so-poor countries).

[adaseb]

The issue with living without a bank is how will you pay your bills and how will people pay you if they can't pay by bitcoin?

Whether you own or rent your home. How are you going to pay rent exactly? Sure you can find a landlord which will accept cash since they know it won't bounce like a cheque. However how will you pay your utility bills? You can't mail cash, you also can't pay all your utility bills at a store. So the only way would be to buy money orders and mail those instead of cheques. If you got like 3-4 different bills the costs will add up.

And how will people pay you for your services if you run a business. Most can pay by cash however you will lose alot of business if you don't accept credit cards/debit. To get those merchants you will need a bank account obviously.

Hence its issues like these that make it difficult to live without a bank account.

[Kakmakr]

I asked my employer to give me 30% of my salary in Bitcoin, because I use and also hoard almost 30% of my salary in Bitcoin in any way. So if they give it to me in bitcoin, I do not have to convert it. I would have increased the percentage, if I could have paid some of my regular expenses with it too, but some of these businesses do not accept Bitcoin payments.

I also found that a large percentage of the things that I pay for, has to be paid via Payment processors and that adds additional fees to the transactions. (Fees that I would not have paid, if I paid with cash or my credit card)

The volatility is cancelled if I use payment processors and if the price increase since I received my salary. Those bitcoins I did not use increase in value, so it makes up for some of the fees and visa versa if the price drop.  

[Wexnident]

Isnt the idea kind of difficult to realize? The idea itself is nice but since the idea itself is separating yourself from the norm, doesn't that mean some aspects of life might prove to be inaccessible to you? I mean, it might depend from country to country but generally, that would be the problems encountered by the idea of living bankless. The issue itself most probably lies on the fact that there's not much support with regards to cryptocurrency usage in most aspects of life, and not to mention the required identifications in normal cases.

Not flaming the idea or anything, but if you were to try to live bankless, the idea of cryptocurrency needs to be idealized. Not in just a single country but rather globally and it needs to be recognized as an identity similar to what a fiat does. I used cryptos to pay in the past but that was mostly for items I bought online. I've never really used them to pay items that are paid every month like rents and bills.

[imstillthebest]

Never had a bank, not planning on having one, pay for shit in cash, save money in crypto, guess thats the silver lining that comes out of living in a 3rd world country, cash is much more accepted over online payments, can even pay for food/amazon deliveries with cash on delivery

well congrats because you dont let someone control your money . we are on the same boat though as i dont also have a bank account   .  if i want to save money i will just save it on my own  . i dont save money on cryptos because that is risky and you shouldnt too if ur aim is to grow your money   . investing is a different thing than on saving because you need to monitor your funds when saving and sell them asap  . i am living on a 3rd world country and i agree on most of what you said but sooner or later the situation can change when the world became cashless