Securing cryptocurrency without using hardware wallet

[Maus0728]

Greetings Everyone,

Lately, I have been worrying with the security of the wallet I currently use. Since I am from the Philippines, I am using coins.ph as my main wallet in storing BTC, ETH and XRP, this is custodial wallet which makes me worried in storing all of my crypto even though I enabled the 2FA.

Is it possible to create a wallet that has the same security offered by the mainstream hardware wallet like Trezor or Ledger Nano? Do I need another computer mainly for cryptocurrency only? I remember there is someone who said that this is possible, I just can't remember the post and the author.

Thank you.

[1714482807]

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[ranochigo]

There are several ways to try to make your cold storage more secure. I recommend keeping a cold storage and a hot wallet for easy access.

1. Raspberry Pi.
The cost is roughly $35 without the SD card but it's very close to being a hardware wallet. Most people install Raspbian with Electrum. They keep an instance of Electrum online to create unsigned transactions before using an USB drive to transfer the unsigned transaction over to the offline Raspberry Pi to be signed and transferred back to the online computer to be broadcasted. This is my personal favourite since Raspberry Pis are very versatile and it pretty much emulates a hardware wallet.

2. Live CD/USB drive
You can run a live distribution of Linux and follow the steps above. You need to keep the Live CD/USB drive offline by unplugging your computer before running it and use Electrum to ensure maximum security.


Hardware wallets do provide additional tamper resistant attacks against higher level attackers and are generally much more convenient to use.

[o_e_l_e_o]

If you are looking for the security and ease of use of a hardware wallet, then why not just buy a hardware wallet? If you catch a good sale or promotion, you can get a Ledger Nano S for around $40.

If you want real cold storage, then either you will need to use a paper wallet or a secondary device which is permanently airgapped (i.e. no internet connection). As ranochigo says, this device could be a Raspberry Pi, but it could also be an old desktop or laptop you aren't using anymore. Some people will even use an old mobile phone in airplane mode or a live OS on their main computer, although neither of these approaches are as secure as a second computer without any internet capabilities whatsoever.

Paper wallets also provide a large degree of security, but to set them up securely you should also be doing so from a permanently airgapped computer, so this doesn't really help your situation if not having access to a second computer is this issue.

[Maus0728]

Thanks everyone for the reply.

It looks like I have no choice but to use Hardware Wallet since using Raspberry Pi is a bit tedious work especially if you still do not have any idea on how Raspberry Pi works though I always hear it.

I also do not have an extra old laptop that I can use as an alternative airgapped wallet. Anyways, thank you for giving some alternative ways in setting up a hardware wallet. I'll keep these in mind.

Thank you!

[thebutton]

I also do not have an extra old laptop that I can use as an alternative airgapped wallet.

You can just buy an old cheap laptop with the said characteristics as mentioned in this thread: [Guide] Secure air-gapped crypto wallet storage method. Or just ask someone you knew maybe they have some.
How about Mycelium? It is easy to install and security is decent. I was using Mycelium before I purchased my Trezor (which is worth it in my opinion) which was a very long time ago and never have I encountered any issues. There may be more features, improvements that had been made since the last I used it.

On my coins.ph account, I just store enough to spend it on buying a load, paying bills and occasionally use it to convert my cryptocurrencies into PHP. You can read in the local thread how hassle it is to store huge amount in coins.ph and I don't want to undergo such a thing.

[pooya87]

How about Mycelium? It is easy to install and security is decent.

to securely store bitcoin you must always look into offline storage options and basically anything that is cut off from any kind of network and is stored safely in some location instead of something you carry around in your pocket (which is what you would do with your phone and Mycekium wallet). so a mobile wallet can not be an option here.

[Pmalek]

You can just buy an old cheap laptop with the said characteristics...

I think OP is looking for a more cost-effective solution. Something equally good as a hardware wallet but probably cheaper. he didn't say cheaper, but I am pretty sure that is what he meant. He doesn't own a hardware wallet yet and buying any kind of laptop is a more expensive investment than a hardware wallet.

If OP stored Bitcoin only he could consider generating a paper wallet, but since he has other coins as well, a hardware wallet is the best balance between price, security, and ease of use.

[thebutton]

You can just buy an old cheap laptop with the said characteristics...

I think OP is looking for a more cost-effective solution. Something equally good as a hardware wallet but probably cheaper. he didn't say cheaper, but I am pretty sure that is what he meant. He doesn't own a hardware wallet yet and buying any kind of laptop is a more expensive investment than a hardware wallet.

If OP stored Bitcoin only he could consider generating a paper wallet, but since he has other coins as well, a hardware wallet is the best balance between price, security, and ease of use.

I don't think so. There are $50 cheap old laptop in the local market here in the Philippines which could serve its purpose. And if the OP wishes to buy a hardware wallet overseas rather than here in the Philippines then he would pay a good amount of tax and considering the new memorandum of the Optical Media Board here, the shipment would be delayed a little bit.

How about Mycelium? It is easy to install and security is decent.

More secure than custodial wallet? Yes, but the security hugely depends on security practice/awareness of the owner.

That's what I thought.

[nc50lc]

Is it possible to create a wallet that has the same security offered by the mainstream hardware wallet like Trezor or Ledger Nano? Do I need another computer mainly for cryptocurrency only? I remember there is someone who said that this is possible, I just can't remember the post and the author.

Was it something like this? /index.php?topic=5237614.msg54149363#msg54149363 <-for 2 Electrum mobile.

Take note: If you're planning on buying the second phone because you don't have a spare, then it's better off buying a hardware wallet instead.
Otherwise, the security is as good as a hardware wallet as long as the cold-storage is hidden, secured with a passphrase (both phone and Electrum) and disabled mobile network, WiFi, Bluetooth, etc connections.

[Lucius]

I am using coins.ph as my main wallet in storing BTC, ETH and XRP, this is custodial wallet which makes me worried in storing all of my crypto even though I enabled the 2FA.

Any crypto wallet in which you have full control over your private keys is a better option than any online wallet. I think this is something that most people who understand the term "not your private keys, not your coins" will agree with. If it is financially challenging for you to buy a hardware wallet or other computer/smartphone the only alternative is to start using some desktop wallet.

If you take all the necessary security measures, which include having a malware/virus free computer + to verify wallet file before installation, then you can have a relatively secure wallet for free even on Windows OS. For extra protection you can use Linux Live CD/USB as mentioned by ranochigo.

Everything you need to know about How to Safely Download and Verify Electrum

[DaveF]

Or you can do a multisig wallet between a phone and laptop.

So long as you keep the seed words very secure (which you would have to do with a hardware wallet anyway) then you would need both the phone and the laptop and the password(s), which can be different on each, to send out any coins.

Or I am missing something because I did not have my coffee yet.

Stay safe.

-Dave

[Maus0728]

I think OP is looking for a more cost-effective solution.

To be honest you're right. I am thinking of an alternative cost-effective solution that has an equal function similar to a hardware wallet can give to an average Joe, that is why I asked if I can set-up an airgapped wallet using an old laptop. Unfortunately, I realized that it is a very tedious work and there is a high risk of losing money involve since I do not have any idea in setting up a Raspeberry Pi.

Was it something like this? /index.php?topic=5237614.msg54149363#msg54149363 <-for 2 Electrum mobile.

Awesome! This is the exact post I am looking for and also it is a nice read. I do have another phone in spare which can be used as a cold storage and I also consider this as an alternative option in receiving crypto for smaller amounts and for daily transactions. 

However, I decided to just purchase Ledger Nano S as my main wallet in storing most of my crypto for long term hold. After that, I'll set up my current Android phone as the "watch-only wallet" and the other as "cold storage wallet". Is this is a good idea?

It looks like I am going to learn a lot from these. Thank you.

"not your private keys, not your coins"

Totally agreed with this, I'll never forget the incident when someone from our local loses his crypto due to the lack awareness that his/her coins.ph can be easily hacked or phished. Not holding your private keys is also one of the reasons why I am very anxious with security, I don't want my hard earned money to get transferred from another address without me knowing or somehow the account to be disabled.

If you take all the necessary security measures, which include having a malware/virus free computer + to verify wallet file before installation, then you can have a relatively secure wallet for free even on Windows OS. For extra protection you can use Linux Live CD/USB as mentioned by ranochigo.

Everything you need to know about How to Safely Download and Verify Electrum

Installing another OS is way beyond my knowledge as of now, so maybe this is not the best time to consider that option, but It is much appreciated 
Thank you for the good read. 

Or you can do a multisig wallet between a phone and laptop.

Am I right that Electrum is also a multisig wallet? which means I can create multiple bitcoin address which I can use in different transactions? I heard that this is one of the best practice in maintaining your privacy and security.

Keep safe DaveF!

[nc50lc]

-snip-

Awesome! This is the exact post I am looking for and also it is a nice read. I do have another phone in spare which can be used as a cold storage and I also consider this as an alternative option in receiving crypto for smaller amounts and for daily transactions.  

However, I decided to just purchase Ledger Nano S as my main wallet in storing most of my crypto for long term hold. After that, I'll set up my current Android phone as the "watch-only wallet" and the other as "cold storage wallet". Is this is a good idea?

Ledger is quite reputable and history proved that it's safe enough... if you're asking me if using another phone as a separate cold-storage setup is a good idea, it's not (not bad either).

First, you already ordered a hardware wallet that can be used to sign your "daily transactions".
Secondly, if you want to separate your long-term hodling, you can just make a second Bitcoin account through Ledger Live or second wallet with different derivation path (to 2nd account) via Electrum.
Lastly, that was suggested to the topic OP who's already got a spare phone and not planning to buy a hardware wallet.

[DaveF]

Or you can do a multisig wallet between a phone and laptop.

Am I right that Electrum is also a multisig wallet? which means I can create multiple bitcoin address which I can use in different transactions? I heard that this is one of the best practice in maintaining your privacy and security.

Keep safe DaveF!

Multisig is not multi address. But yes electrum will generates new address every transaction.

This is multisig:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Multisignature

more or less you can set it up that both wallets phone & laptop are the same. BUT you need to have BOTH of them to sign & broadcast a bitcoin transaction.
Someone gets your phone and pin and password to the wallet. No big deal without the PC you still can't send. Same the other way, your PC gets a virus and someone has complete control of it...still can't send.

The downside is you can't just send from your phone. You are out with friends and want to send some BTC to one of them to cover a meal, you can't till you get home.

What a lot of people do is store larger amounts like that and have a 2nd wallet with some spending BTC.

Oh, and if you do go this way TEST YOUR SETUP WITH A VERY SMALL AMOUNT BEFORE PUTTING ALL YOUR COINS IN THERE. Send a little to it and make sure you can send out.

-Dave

[o_e_l_e_o]

that is why I asked if I can set-up an airgapped wallet using an old laptop. Unfortunately, I realized that it is a very tedious work and there is a high risk of losing money involve since I do not have any idea in setting up a Raspeberry Pi.

You can set up an airgapped wallet using an old laptop. It doesn't have to be a Raspberry Pi - this is simply the cheapest option if you are buying a device specifically for this purpose. Any old laptop you have lying around can be repurposed in to cold storage.

However, I decided to just purchase Ledger Nano S as my main wallet in storing most of my crypto for long term hold. After that, I'll set up my current Android phone as the "watch-only wallet" and the other as "cold storage wallet". Is this is a good idea?

It depends what you are trying to achieve here. A Ledger Nano S is perfectly acceptable to use as long term storage. You don't also need a cold storage wallet on an old mobile phone, although you can set this up if you want. In your situation, I would probably use the Ledger Nano as a cold wallet to store the majority of your bitcoin which you keep at home, and a mobile wallet as a hot wallet which stores a small amount of "spending" bitcoin which you carry with you. You can then top up your mobile wallet from your cold storage as needed.

[Lucius]

Installing another OS is way beyond my knowledge as of now, so maybe this is not the best time to consider that option, but It is much appreciated 
Thank you for the good read. 

It's actually an OS that you install on a DVD/CD or USB stick and run it every time from that media, regardless of your operating system. It may seem complicated, but it's actually pretty straightforward if you read this short tutorial How to install Electrum on a Debian or Ubuntu live CD.

I see you've decided to buy hardware wallet, and it is definitely a good investment. Ledger always has some discounts, but as far as I can see there is no offer at the moment. I also do not see that there is an official reseller in the Philippines, so you will have to order directly from Ledger France. I am not sure how things in the postal system work from the EU to the east, but I know that from the opposite direction the situation is rather chaotic. One package I ordered a month ago from China has been in the Netherlands for over 2 weeks and hasn't moved yet.

[BrewMaster]

It's actually an OS that you install on a DVD/CD or USB stick and run it every time from that media, regardless of your operating system. It may seem complicated, but it's actually pretty straightforward if you read this short tutorial How to install Electrum on a Debian or Ubuntu live CD.

it actually is a lot harder than it seems specially for someone who has never worked with another operating system other than Windows for example. all the commands that you have to enter is also adding another complication that drives many people away. that is why Windows still has a lot of users even though it is basically a big spy app!