[ANN] (DAM) Datamine Network - FLUX: Time is Money 2.0 - DeFi DApp

[Datamine]

Hopefully at some point Datamine will provide a clear answer as to what is the use case of Flux other than burning to create more flux.

The value of FLUX originates from borrowing a portion of the worldwide dividend mint rate when you burn FLUX. FLUX is simply a measure of time that can be transacted to reduce global inflation and increase dividend rates. Dividend rates can be increased by buying time.

Datamine is a new non-custodial and decentralized open source economic system that uses smart contracts to create Adaptive Money. FLUX is Money 2.0. Our dual token DeFi protocol generates dividends every 15 seconds. The protocol rewards users for destroying FLUX tokens from circulation to create a dynamic market equilibrium using realtime on-chain supply and demand.

We can prove our use case using realtime supply and demand for both $DAM and $FLUX tokens from on-chain data. See dynamic market equilibrium in action based on realtime market sentiment:



Aside from this functional core use case, FLUX will have secondary use cases (under development). This is exactly why we wanted one fixed token (DAM) and one non-fixed, mintable token (FLUX)= unlocks secondary smart contract use cases, especially when taking advantage of the ERC-777 token protocol.

[1715203001]

1715203001

[NationalPotato]

The value of FLUX originates from borrowing a portion of the worldwide dividend mint rate when you burn FLUX. FLUX is simply a measure of time that can be transacted to reduce global inflation and increase dividend rates. Dividend rates can be increased by buying time.

Datamine is a new non-custodial and decentralized open source economic system that uses smart contracts to create Adaptive Money. FLUX is Money 2.0. Our dual token DeFi protocol generates dividends every 15 seconds.

I REALLY, REALLY hope you’re not a US citizen because - wow.  

FLUX isn’t money.  It’s a cryptocurrency.  There’s a difference. Legally, it’s property, not currency.  Anyone based in the US trading this will be subject to IRS rules on property and not money.  

You’ve also only reiterated that the existing use case of FLUX is to serve as a ponzi mechanism.  Burn flux to borrow the global mint tate?  Aka: burn FLUX now to get MORE FLUX later.

What did Bernie Madoff tell his “investors”?  Give me money now to get more money later.  You’re saying buy some FLUX now to get more FLUX later and you’re calling it money and you’re calling it a dividend.  If you don’t appreciate the weight of your claims I’m sure some plaintiffs attorneys will when they subpoena Discord for your details.

[xxmetalmartyrxx]

The value of FLUX originates from borrowing a portion of the worldwide dividend mint rate when you burn FLUX. FLUX is simply a measure of time that can be transacted to reduce global inflation and increase dividend rates. Dividend rates can be increased by buying time.

Datamine is a new non-custodial and decentralized open source economic system that uses smart contracts to create Adaptive Money. FLUX is Money 2.0. Our dual token DeFi protocol generates dividends every 15 seconds.

I REALLY, REALLY hope you’re not a US citizen because - wow.  

FLUX isn’t money.  It’s a cryptocurrency.  There’s a difference. Legally, it’s property, not currency.  Anyone based in the US trading this will be subject to IRS rules on property and not money.  

You’ve also only reiterated that the existing use case of FLUX is to serve as a ponzi mechanism.  Burn flux to borrow the global mint tate?  Aka: burn FLUX now to get MORE FLUX later.

What did Bernie Madoff tell his “investors”?  Give me money now to get more money later.  You’re saying buy some FLUX now to get more FLUX later and you’re calling it money and you’re calling it a dividend.  If you don’t appreciate the weight of your claims I’m sure some plaintiffs attorneys will when they subpoena Discord for your details.

Good thing the main dev is Canadian and not an American. 

Nevertheless, this is some next level troll or ignorance... not entirely sure which. You do realize, that you can burn your own Flux, and there's no claim you need to buy someone else's Flux? Also, the ponzi comparison's are getting old. Who's at the top of the pyramid scheme? Oh wait... nobody. Nobody is at the top, because it's not a pyramid scheme and there's no pyramid. Let's also throw in the fact that you can burn Flux, and your burn amount can be less then what the bonus mint will yield. So yeah, how's this a ponzi? It's actually ludicrous you're this mad about not swapping your 20k BWK. Go buy Stu's Bastion_Invest Token, or go take a look at how he's been dumping his DAM bags on the market.

So your entire shtick is that it's a ponzi, yet it's nothing like it. Simply another spin on the distribution system; instead of using a GPU or an ASIC to do arbitrary calculations and earn a percentage portion of the block reward, you're staking DAM to create Flux, and have an option to burn Flux to increase your DAM's Flux yield. How is this inherently different? By your logic BTC and ETH are ponzi's because you can "burn electricity" to increase your mining yields. Sheesh this dude is a next level degenerate.

[NationalPotato]

Good thing the main dev is Canadian and not an American. 

Any Canadian users harmed by this blatant scam can file complaints here: https://www.services.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/chooser-eng.html?ipeReferer=CAFCFRS

I elected not to swap my BWK because I didn't want to forward the expense of my mistake onto others.  I don't blame all of the BWK bagholders for wanting to recover their losses - it's rational - I'm just tired of seeing how many bad projects pop up in the space as giant cash grabs.  There's plenty of public statements from the DAM team (Hodl4Jesus, Dabs, Neuromaniac) claiming that this is the new Bulwark. 

To date, no one has bothered to rebut any of my initial concerns related to how the core mechanism of FLUX (burn N flux to get N+X flux) is inherently deflationary.  Since yesterday, the price of FLUX has fallen by ~50%.  There's nothing about this project that is "money" or a "savings account". 

The phrase "savings account" implies a return on capital or at least preserved capital along with CDIC insurance automatically insuring deposits.

Don't use deceptive language to shill your shitcoin and maybe I won't be as persistent in calling this scam what it is.

 

[xxmetalmartyrxx]

I elected not to swap my BWK because I didn't want to forward the expense of my mistake onto others.

 

So you're salty because you're trying to exemplify a sort of self-righteousness? Alright pal. Obviously you have no idea what crypto ventures go through when trying to figure out initial token distribution. Hodl could've just launched his endeavor, but he decided to swap with disenfranchised BWK holders, since communities are tough to come by, and it solves the initial distribution issue so many tokens face.

To date, no one has bothered to rebut any of my initial concerns related to how the core mechanism of FLUX (burn N flux to get N+X flux) is inherently deflationary.

Are you senile? Again, I'll reiterate, this is simply a means to bring more tokens into the ecosystem, just like BTC mining. BTC mining is utterly worthless, and just "mines" ever-increasingly difficult equations to earn a bit of the new distribution. Flux is the distributive portion of DAM. What is there not to get? They aren't separate entities. Flux gains its value from the "lock in time", just like BTC gets its value from solving useless equations. Burning is irrelevant to the discussion, because its just another method of earning a bigger portion of the Flux distributions (think, having a bigger share of a mining pool). I mean either you're extremely new to crypto, or senile, or both perhaps; your claims are simply unfounded.

The phrase "savings account" implies a return on capital or at least preserved capital along with CDIC insurance automatically insuring deposits.

Now this is just nitpicking about marketing words. And lo and behold, this is still a very young project, and they've actually changed the marketing of a "savings account" to Money 2.0. Savings account never made much sense to me, and didn't really encapsulate what this project was. Also, it does give a return on capital, in terms of Flux and DAM. USD value will fluctuate, and anyone going into crypto, especially a low-cap project like this, will know this.

Don't use deceptive language to shill your shitcoin and maybe I won't be as persistent in calling this scam what it is.
 

You throw around scam and ponzi like it's going out of style. Who's getting scammed here? Because you don't think this cryptocurrency is worth anything? Well news flash for ya pal; welcome to any form of currency in the 21st century. It has value because we say it has value. USD has value, because we say it has value. BTC has value because we say it has value. DOGE has value, because we say it has value. None of these examples have any "inherent value". Looking at BTC and DOGE specifically, they're merely currencies, and do nothing more then facilitate transactions, and guess what! People value that! Newsflash, people also value the ecosystem surrounding DAM and Flux, and the intuitive take on staking/minting new tokens. The self balancing on chain demand system works, and people value that. Now, they've stated that other uses cases for Flux (which is the LIQUID token in the DAM/Flux ecosystem) are planned. Now you can kindly piss off with your "scam" and "ponzi" bullshit.

[NationalPotato]

(A bunch of ad hominem attacks without even addressing the underlying concern)

So far no one has addressed how a burn N to get N+X mechanism is inherently price deflationary.  There’s not going to be a problem with FLUX liquidity because in a month supply will be higher and the price will be lower.  The only use case FLUX has is to burn it to create more FLUX.  That’s the primary and only current purpose for it.  

There are a lot of scams in crypto.  There are a lot of HYIP/ponzis in crypto.

Your inability to actually get to the meat of this issue while instead just wildly flailing your arms and calling me names isn’t going to help address these fundamental concerns.  I’m an old head in the game, too, been around for a few market cycles.  Attempting to resurrect a shitcoin through swap to keep the community is an old trick.  But remember, all those people have bags to sell and they want to recover their losses.

Their stack of DAM produce FLUX, which they’ll try to sell to recover their losses.  The sell pressure on this project will be heavy, heavy, heavy.

[Bimmerhead]

Again, I'll reiterate, this is simply a means to bring more tokens into the ecosystem, just like BTC mining. BTC mining is utterly worthless, and just "mines" ever-increasingly difficult equations to earn a bit of the new distribution. Flux is the distributive portion of DAM. What is there not to get? They aren't separate entities. Flux gains its value from the "lock in time", just like BTC gets its value from solving useless equations. Burning is irrelevant to the discussion, because its just another method of earning a bigger portion of the Flux distributions (think, having a bigger share of a mining pool). 

Now this was helpful.

I'm not particularly new to crypto, but I'm not well-versed on minting methods other than PoW. Perhaps there are others out there like me. For dummies like me it would be helpful to have explanations in plain English without jargon.

I guess another question I have is 'why are there two tokens'. Why not have staking DAM create more DAM? Are there other projects out there with this 2-token approach?

[xxmetalmartyrxx]

I guess another question I have is 'why are there two tokens'. Why not have staking DAM create more DAM? Are there other projects out there with this 2-token approach?

I asked the main developer this question, and he put it like this:

DAM is your ticket into the ecosystem
FLUX is what is used in the ecosystem.

If we just had one token we could not have started with 0 FLUX.

Flux has planned future use case on top of what it's already doing (have yet to be revealed). Another user described the relationship as a NEO-GAS, THETA-GAS and VET-VTHO sort of relationship. DAM has a static supply while Flux's supply is infinite, with a large majority of it being burned by users.

I'm glad though my mining comparison helped you see what's going on here. I saw it from the beginning like this myself, since I was big into mining a few years back. I feel its once of the best ways to explain and describe this ecosystem. Cheers! 

[Bimmerhead]

Thanks again xxmetalmartyrxx.

A feature enhancement I'd suggest is when we buy more DAM, we can add it to our current locked-in DAM without unlocking the original stash (and thereby re-setting the counter).

[spiraklas]

Thanks again xxmetalmartyrxx.

A feature enhancement I'd suggest is when we buy more DAM, we can add it to our current locked-in DAM without unlocking the original stash (and thereby re-setting the counter).

Unlocking your DAM tokens will cause you to lose your current time bonus. Any unminted FLUX Dividends will also be lost. it is recommend that you mint your FLUX Dividends before unlocking DAM.

[Dabs]

There's plenty of public statements from the DAM team (Hodl4Jesus, Dabs, Neuromaniac) claiming that this is the new Bulwark. 

1. I'm not part of the DAM dev team, I'm just another person on the discord or this forum that got some tokens, like everybody else.
2. I may have mentioned that Bulwark is conducting a swap to DAM, and everyone knew that, as 16.8 million were eventually swapped, and 8 million DAM were thus burned.

[NationalPotato]

1. I'm not part of the DAM dev team, I'm just another person on the discord or this forum that got some tokens, like everybody else.

You're part of the BWK team (you're "Marketing" according to your Discord tag).   Or was that just for Bulwark?  Please don't be deceptive.  

Here's you saying that DAM is the new BWK and that "it's like a rebrand".    

Here's a direct link for anyone in the BWK discord:  https://discord.com/channels/374271866308919296/374271866308919298/710569922534703205

Here's a link to the BWK discord: https://discord.me/bulwarkcrypto

(I've also created a few videos of the search in case, somehow, the message in question  "disappears").

[Dabs]

"Marketing" of the community that took over development of the BWK coin after the old team left. I was not a part of the old team or the new team otherwise, just an "outsider" who stuck long enough in the discord, that and I'm also on this forum as well. Not being deceptive, never was, never have been, never will be.

"DAM is the new BWK, It's like a rebrand." Faster way of saying what everyone already knows to mean, sorry if that was not clear to you. Remember that discord is a real time chat application, unlike this forum where sometimes people type from a keyboard or a desktop / laptop computer.

My usual role around these parts has been as third party or escrow. In both cases, in BWK and now DAM, I never held any coins or tokens that belonged to the team.

As you know, I've been here long enough to value my own integrity; I have no beef against you, and we did chat briefly in discord.

[NationalPotato]

"Marketing" of the community that took over development of the BWK coin after the old team left. I was not a part of the old team or the new team otherwise, just an "outsider" who stuck long enough in the discord, that and I'm also on this forum as well. Not being deceptive, never was, never have been, never will be.

"DAM is the new BWK, It's like a rebrand." Faster way of saying what everyone already knows to mean, sorry if that was not clear to you. Remember that discord is a real time chat application, unlike this forum where sometimes people type from a keyboard or a desktop / laptop computer.

My usual role around these parts has been as third party or escrow. In both cases, in BWK and now DAM, I never held any coins or tokens that belonged to the team.

As you know, I've been here long enough to value my own integrity; I have no beef against you, and we did chat briefly in discord.

I don't have a beef against you either, but am just trying to clarify things.

You're not part of the old team, but you're labeled as  "Marketing" in the Bulwark discord.  That seems to be an "official" position?  There are other folks who are "rank 10" that aren't tagged with "Marketing".  I never said you received any portion of the BWK pre-mine (Hodl4Jesus didn't either, as far as I know, but they're absolutely the dev of the "new BWK").

How can you be not part of the team but officially part of their marketing apparatus?  Plenty of people stuck around just as long as you and aren't labeled as "Marketing". 

In your own words, DAM is the new BWK.  How can you be a part of the BWK marketing apparatus, but somehow be disassociated from DAM? 

It just doesn't pass the sniff test.

[Dabs]

Dude, you are nit picking on minor irrelevant details.

For the sake of clarification since you brought it up:

Discord has some kind of permissions things attached to the labels or roles. I'm rank 10 because they have a bot that tracks conversations and if you stick around long enough, that's what you get. I used to be tagged "coding" because I requested to be able to see what they are talking about there. I'm tagged "BCT Staff" because at that time, I was Staff here on bitcointalk and the team recognized it. I no longer am a moderator here, but again, that's not relevant. I'm tagged "Marketing" for pretty much the same reason, so I am updated and be aware of what the community is doing.

I did not do any coding or marketing effort, except maybe to mention the coin to a few friends. You can see it all in the old discord as some channels there have been marked under "archive" but they are not deleted, as history. You can also see everything that has ever happened in the BWK threads.

It seems you've been around long enough to run at least 4 masternodes back a year or two ago, then you know everything that happened.

As to why you did not join the swap, well, you did say you refused to participate. So you still have your BWK. That is fine, that is your choice.

Did I pull some strings or anything like that? No. I asked nicely. Same thing with all the other Discord servers that I am on.

If you don't have a beef against me, we can end this part of the conversation here cordially and respectfully, thank you. If you don't like DAM or don't like what the devs are doing, you don't have to be here. If you want to "protect" people, you can also do that in hundreds or thousands of other threads, particularly the ones who actually asked for money in the form of ICOs/IEOs or similarly. I escrowed a few of those before just to make sure those coins launched. Some are still alive today, some got stopped before they could get started and some died their natural deaths.

It just doesn't pass the sniff test.

Stop sniffing whatever it is you are sniffing.

[NationalPotato]

Stop sniffing whatever it is you are sniffing.

To confirm your explanation of this:  Rank 10 is because you've been such a frequent participant in the server that the bot managing ranks has  promoted you to the highest-participating rank.   The "Marketing" distinction is one you received because you asked to be more involved in Bulwark's marketing.  For the sake of clarity: do you have any administrative privileges within the DATAMINE server?

I'll keep sniffing around the margins.  This entire project stinks.  Stinky stink is what the current odor is.  I hope it improves. I'd love to see whatever necromantic magic that's attempting to revive the fetid corpse of a failed shitcoin to actually succeed.  Could you imagine how promising of a model this would be going forward?  There are SO MANY failed shitcoins.  If "they" manage to convert this one into a successful ERC-777 token, imagine the market opportunities moving forward.  There are multitudinous suckers to bag with heavy burdens to carry forward into perpetuity........

If you don't like DAM or don't like what the devs are doing, you don't have to be here. If you want to "protect" people, you can also do that in hundreds or thousands of other threads, particularly the ones who actually asked for money in the form of ICOs/IEOs or similarly.

I was happy to inform the devs their coin didn't pass the sniff test in a more private forum. They banned me for it.  So, no.  I won't leave.  Neither you, nor any other respondent, has managed to assuage my concerns that FLUX's primary mechanism of burn N FLUX and get N+X FLUX in return is deflationary.  

Since my initial post, FLUX's value has fallen from $16.69 to $5.42.  That's nearly a 70% decline in about 55 hours.  Maybe my primary critique of the project has merit?  If you disagree, perhaps you believe the current price of FLUX is advantageous to your long-term financial best interests and buying would be a prudent choice?  Put your money where your mouth is.  Got an ETH address you'd be willing to demonstrate ownership of, and then demonstrate purchasing FLUX with?

DAM has fallen 20%, from ~$.17 to ~$.14.   I expect this trend to continue.  As more BWK bagholders become disillusioned with the prospects of succeeding with this project, they'll likely dump out.  FLUX's only use case currently is to.. burn FLUX for more FLUX.  DAM's only use case is to get FLUX, so there's not really a reason for DAM to onboard more users unless they enter with the intent to sell FLUX

As to why you did not join the swap, well, you did say you refused to participate. So you still have your BWK. That is fine, that is your choice.

So is hanging around and making sure my concerns are addressed (or not).  I won't just go away because you're nice (you are and I like you and appreciate you for that).  I'll leave once someone offers a reasonable economic explanation for how the FLUX burn mechanism (FLUX's only know use case, currently) is beneficial to the economics of this project.  I also laugh, out loud, at the assertion that there's some underlying demand for people to want to hold FLUX.  That's the most absurd, obtuse, outright developer-obsequious notion to be suggested in the better part of the last few years.  I've got a few Crypto "bridges" to sell, if you're interested in buying.  

[xxmetalmartyrxx]

Since my initial post, FLUX's value has fallen from $16.69 to $5.42.  

It should continue to fall until the ROI with DAM/Flux reaches a reasonable point. At 10$, with current DAM prices, was over 200% monthly ROI. Obviously, that will fall until it reaches reasonable levels. Also, thanks for continuing to bump the thread!

[NationalPotato]

It should continue to fall until the ROI with DAM/Flux reaches a reasonable point. At 10$, with current DAM prices, was over 200% monthly ROI. Obviously, that will fall until it reaches reasonable levels. Also, thanks for continuing to bump the thread!

Always happy to bump the thread.  Doesn't bother me that my responses to this bring things to the top.  The more people see how desparately the entire Datamine crew avoids the N+X question, the more people will realize that it's probably not wise to buy in.

Heck, your post just reinforced my point.  200% monthly "ROI" (I have no idea how you calculated that figure) is clearly unsustainable.  I figure everything will trend toward the Fed rate of ~0%... so I guess your argument is that FLUX is valueless?  Reasonable investors usually seek rates at or around the Fed rate.  So you and I are on the same page:  FLUX is valueless and anyone buying it is a sucker.

[xxmetalmartyrxx]

 avoids the N+X question

I didn't avoid it, and I addressed it in my response to you. I'll explain again; burning is just another mechanism to increase the minting rate, ie; you get a larger chunk of the global mint rate by increasing your burn. Similiar to adding a new mining rig to the global hashrate of a typical PoW coin. The N+X question is framed in a way that misunderstands the entire premise of Flux. Will the supply of Flux continue to increase? Yes, proportionally to the global burn rate. This WILL be price deflationary, until an equilibrium is reached. But, yes, the N+X understanding would imply that, if demand remains unchanged, the price will continue to deflate. It's almost as if... every cryptocurrency that has more supply being created is under this same pressure created by more and more supply though... HMMMM. 

Masternodes, mining, staking: all these forms of supply increase are deflationary. Flux is not an exception to this. Burning won't be the only use case for Flux either.

Keep bumping the thread.

[helenfast69]

The incentive system based on burning extra tokens is a very interesting approach to the issue of extra tokens. Thus, coins should not lose much in price, even taking into account the fact that their number is infinite in essence.