Bitcointalk Poker Series format discussion - Let's keep them all in one place.

[arallmuus]

- I also think/thought one tournament per week may be a nicer option BUT... would 4 tournaments per series be ideal? Probably not... Would it be ideal to have a series running over 2 months to make it 8 tournaments? Probably not... Another thing - with only 4 tournaments per series and current buy-in structure, well, I am not sure how happy SwC will be about sponsoring 0.05 BTC for the Grand Final

How about if we make it 6 tournament + 1 Grand Final for each series ? as both 4 or 8 tournaments might have their own downside so 6 might do the trick

eligible for small final: tyKiwanuka, SyGambler, Improved, Trofo, BitcoinGirlClub, morvillz7z, jayce (too few, but should get better with new structure then)

If the number for the small final participant is too low, then we could just add another 6 player that didnt get anything from the Grand Final instead? Everyone that make it to the Grand Final and lose could be given their second chance on the small final .

20 tournaments and award first x places and that is it. That way quality would show itself on a large amount of tournaments and we would minimize the luck component.

I like how that sounds, I would like to play entire season with you people, for six months, tournament every week!

This would be hard to do because anyone needs to keep on playing each week to get points, some people might have hard time joining each week due to real life issue

Also this would discourage alot of player to play at some point. Lets say the point difference on leaderboard between #1 until #5 isnt that big and Five of them still stand a chance to top the leaderboard

While the rest of the player might have huge gap in point difference, at some point all those guy might feel discourage to join the next one because they dont stand a chance anymore

We might see less than 8 players after 4 months of running it because all others wont really get to the top spot anymore even if they keep winning the tournament

Are you sure that this jersey is like a real on-field Watford jersey ? I can't imagine that tbh They just say "shirt" and I think it's just some basic T-shirt with some Watford logo.

  But the 1 btc prizepool is still worth it with only 2 mbtc buy in

[Trofo]

Are you sure that this jersey is like a real on-field Watford jersey ? I can't imagine that tbh They just say "shirt" and I think it's just some basic T-shirt with some Watford logo.

  But the 1 btc prizepool is still worth it with only 2 mbtc buy in

It is a real on field Watford jersey 99%. When you apply for it you can chose between Home (black & yellow) and away (blue). They have a sponsorship agreement with Watford and I guess they just got a shitload of merchandise. I could be wrong of course but then there is still money prize which is very nice as tyKiwanuka mentioned

I see a lot of familiar names on the player list so see you guys soon.

Edit: What a start by FOMA AA and ALL IN in first hand. Nice man. And now I am kicked to another table...

[figmentofmyass]

A lottery gives them the incentive to participate and even if they don't finish in the points and thus have no shot at the Grand Final, they will get tickets for the lottery with each participation. (And a spot for small final)

You need to have a good foundation for such a series, i.e. regular players. The players that will leave, are the ones that only ever contribute to the pot, but never (are able to) take anything out of it. You have to make sure, that these players have an incentive to keep playing. A lottery (maybe) does that.

+1, i think that's really important to consider. a luck-based incentive (sort of like bad beat jackpots in cash games) could have a strong retaining effect on casual players, especially in the second half of the series.

i would also be open to something like 150 chips towards the lottery + 150 chips towards paying out the top 5 in points. i dunno if that's getting too complicated (1000+200+150+150) or too high of a total buy-in (1500 chips) but it would add another skill-based incentive to even things out.

i still think the runner's up tourney should be open for anyone who played x number of games, like a consolation tourney. only 3 people are gonna cash in the championship after all.

[figmentofmyass]

bump! are we still aiming to kick this series off next weekend?

i guess @efialtis can just set up a typical 1000 chip buy-in for sunday since these issues all relate to the "extra" buy-ins and can be sorted out separately. (are we playing sundays only? it still seems undecided but to be safe that should probably be the plan for this weekend)

can we get a simple yay/nay vote on some of this stuff?

-sunday only, or saturday/sunday?

-is everyone okay with 1000+200(championship)+200(lottery) buy-ins?

the lottery structure and total series length can be tweaked later on, but we should sort out the general playing schedule and buy-ins ASAP if we want to play next weekend.

calling all regulars.....

@Betwrong
@arallmuus
@1r0n1c
@Iv4n
@bitmutiny
@Hhampuz
@Steamtyme
@CCwatcher420
@tyKiwanuka
@SyGambler
@Improved
@Trofo
@BitcoinGirlClub
@CoinEraser
@cygan
@webtricks
@morvillz7z
@efialtis
@jayce
@Globb0

[tyKiwanuka]

-sunday only, or saturday/sunday?

-is everyone okay with 1000+200(championship)+200(lottery) buy-ins?

@Betwrong
@arallmuus -> Sunday/1400 CHECK
@1r0n1c
@Iv4n -> Sunday/1400 CHECK
@bitmutiny
@Hhampuz
@Steamtyme -> Sunday/1400 CHECK
@CCwatcher420
@tyKiwanuka -> Sunday/1400 CHECK
@SyGambler
@Improved
@Trofo -> Sunday/1400 CHECK
@BitcoinGirlClub
@CoinEraser
@cygan
@webtricks -> Sunday/1400 CHECK
@morvillz7z -> Sunday/1400 CHECK
@efialtis -> Sunday/1400 CHECK
@jayce
@Globb0

Whatever we decide on, if possible, people that intend to join all tournaments should send all extra chips upfront to efialtis, to reduce the hassle for him. Even if you are not eager to play every tournament, but maybe only 50%, you should just send for four tournaments then and request a refund at the end of the series (or donate). The less "single transactions" there are, the better.

[efialtis]

Thanks guys - that's also what I am waiting for and SwC are also waiting to get some more details - so if at least most of the regulars confirm they are fine with those 1.4k chips, I will have things up ASAP.

@Betwrong
@arallmuus
@1r0n1c
@Iv4n
@bitmutiny
@Hhampuz
@Steamtyme
@CCwatcher420
@tyKiwanuka -> Sunday/1400 CHECK
@SyGambler
@Improved
@Trofo
@BitcoinGirlClub
@CoinEraser
@cygan
@webtricks
@morvillz7z
@efialtis -> Sunday/1400 CHECK
@jayce
@Globb0

[Trofo]

To keep the thread easier to browse I propose that you guys edit your previous posts and delete obsolete list of users. Only the latest one should be available.

I am currently on mobile so I am kindly asking the next person to put check next to my name as well. Hate to quote/copy/paste on mobile. I will do it myself in the evening if nobody takes care of it before.

Sunday is my choice as well, buy in is ok.

[Steamtyme]

1 tournament a weekend is all I really care about. Either day works so I'll vote Sunday.

I'm good with trying the 1400 I still think that's steep and would have preferred 1300 as this is just to create a lottery sidepot. So count me in.

I work this coming weekend so I likely won't be playing but will keep the option open.

[1r0n1c]

Hey guys, just to make sure that I got all things straight. The lottery is for everyone or for those guys who haven´t qualified for
the final table? I´m not the biggest fan of that lottery idea either way because it´s pure gamble but of course it wouldn´t stop me of playing the
next poker series 

Another thing which pops up in my mind is what we´re going to do when SwC won´t provide further 0,05BTC to the final table anymore.
Because those 200 Chips per fee will be definitely too less.

[tyKiwanuka]

The lottery is for everyone or for those guys who haven´t qualified for the final table?

The lottery would be for anyone. You get 10 tickets per tournament participation and 1 ticket for every point you got from our internal point system. See here how it would have looked for series #2.

I guess you will have no problem to be in contention for Grand Final, but lots of people are often discouraged to keep joining, because they have no shot at it. The last two tournaments of series #2 had only 14 players and we had the same tendency in series #1.

Another thing which pops up in my mind is what we´re going to do when SwC won´t provide further 0,05BTC to the final table anymore.
Because those 200 Chips per fee will be definitely too less.

For now we are a bit reliant on SwC. If they stop sponsoring, then we would have to think how to keep continuing. But that is nothing to worry about for now

[webtricks]

About first question, I will go with one tournament per week. My office is now open, moreover, football is back! All sums up that I will gonna have much more busy weekends than earlier. Hence, playing single tournament on Sunday will be best option for me. (Even then I may have to miss few but still try joining most of them).

About second question, I'm entirely ok with 1400 chips buy-in where 200 goes to lottery and 200 goes to championship. But my question is that do we need to create additional pool for championship? 0.05 BTC is already good incentive to play 9-men tournament. Moreover, reaching to championship already means that you have made some good money in first 8 legs. Won't that be better if we keep buy-in at 1200 where 1000 goes to tournament and 200 goes to lottery?

I have a question. I haven't read previous discussion in this thread. Are we planning to give points to every participant in reverse order or point system would still be limited to top 10 in every leg?

[morvillz7z]

I will try to make this very short, i would miss playing two games per weekend but i totally understand it can be tough for some people to make it, so one game per weekend - Sunday.

I'm okay with whatever buy-in structure we choose to go for, lottery sounds fine too.

I'd love to see some of the people who played in the first series comeback, if we could consistently get two full tables, that'll be awesome.

[iv4n]

Of course, I'm in, you didn't have to ask!
And I agree with any buy-in and with any structure! We have two successful series behind, I think we can test something new in this third series (lottery, higher buy-in)...
Any day you choose will be good, I will try to be there (I work shifts, this Sunday is my working day, but I am free after 19 pm).
Lets make this happen!

[arallmuus]

@arallmuus

Once a week, either Sunday or Saturday are fine for me and Yes Im okay with the 1400 buy in

Moreover, reaching to championship already means that you have made some good money in first 8 legs.

Not really, according to the spreadsheet from the second season you could get into the Grand Finale if you have 26 points ( If we discarded the AVG feature on the spreadsheet )

That means constant placing on minimum 7th rank for 6 times will get 24 points. You just need two more points to get into Grand Finale. The last two regular tournament was less than 15 people so it would be easy to just play safe and aim for 10th rank two times

IIRC only 3 or 4 places paid during the regular tournament so not everyone that get into the Grand Finale actually pocket some prizes during the regular game

[Globb0]

I am interested, but I have issues ie no job now so not that flush.

Is the lottery anyone can win it?

[arallmuus]

I am interested, but I have issues ie no job now so not that flush.

Is the lottery anyone can win it?

It should be because it is as an incentive for people to keep joining the game although they may dont have a chance to get into Grand Finale anymore. There is no clear set format regarding how this works yet but if you are interested you might want to check Tyki's post Here and Here

We might use this format for the lottery so more participant + points could means more lottery ticket


Lets play together on the 3rd series Globb0 

[figmentofmyass]

it sounds like we basically have consensus for sundays only. most people seem good with the 1400 chip buy-in too. i'm cool with both.

are we thinking 8 qualifiers then? or less?

Moreover, reaching to championship already means that you have made some good money in first 8 legs.

in series #2 i actually never cashed until the championship. lots of bubbles for me!

Are we planning to give points to every participant in reverse order or point system would still be limited to top 10 in every leg?

i think we've given up on changing the points structure. if we end up doing the reverse order scheme i think we should weight the top places.

Hey guys, just to make sure that I got all things straight. The lottery is for everyone or for those guys who haven´t qualified for
the final table? I´m not the biggest fan of that lottery idea either way because it´s pure gamble but of course it wouldn´t stop me of playing the
next poker series 

it's a pure gamble yes, which i normally don't like, but i like it because it encourages people to keep playing in the series.

if i've played the first 4 games and have 0 points going into game #5, the lottery + regular prize pools are still a pretty good reason to stay in the series, EV wise.

[efialtis]

Okay then, it's going to be 1.4k chips per game with one game being played on each Sunday - we will have 6 qualifiers + a Grand Final (and I will also take care of a special event for the real winners, haha).

Let me talk this over with SwC now!

[figmentofmyass]

Okay then, it's going to be 1.4k chips per game with one game being played on each Sunday - we will have 6 qualifiers + a Grand Final (and I will also take care of a special event for the real winners, haha).

Let me talk this over with SwC now!

thanks.

you sure you don't wanna go for 8 qualifiers though? i don't mind a 2 month series personally. i think some other folks expressed that view too. i kinda prefer a longer series to reduce variance and/or allow for missing a game. i also think SwC might be more likely to keep sponsoring if the championships weren't that frequent. i'll defer to the crowd of course, but 6 games feels a little short to me.

thoughts? maybe meet in the middle with 7 qualifiers? that would mean 8 weeks total for a series. that seems like a good round number.

[iv4n]

Okay then, it's going to be 1.4k chips per game with one game being played on each Sunday - we will have 6 qualifiers + a Grand Final (and I will also take care of a special event for the real winners, haha).

Let me talk this over with SwC now!

thanks.

you sure you don't wanna go for 8 qualifiers though? i don't mind a 2 month series personally. i think some other folks expressed that view too. i kinda prefer a longer series to reduce variance and/or allow for missing a game. i also think SwC might be more likely to keep sponsoring if the championships weren't that frequent. i'll defer to the crowd of course, but 6 games feels a little short to me.

thoughts? maybe meet in the middle with 7 qualifiers? that would mean 8 weeks total for a series. that seems like a good round number.

First to say thank you Efi for arranging this once again! Can we do something for you man? You did a lot for all of us, can we repay you somehow?

I'm with you Foma , we can stretch this for two months, one game per week, why not? With keeping the same amount for grand finale and adding a lottery with 200 extra chips, this will be very interesting!
1.4 is ok, and I am smiling while I wrote this because I feel like an idiot for adding more and more suggestions, but we can have some nice round number like 1.5 mbtc?! In the end all that money goes to bankroll and people will have motivation to play for some higher rewards.