Bump fee window

[DigitalMonster]

What does setting the Final check mark in this window do?

[OmegaStarScream]

I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) it means that your transaction will be marked as "final" and won't be able to bump the fee anymore.

Give this a read (if interested to know how it works): https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3uphgv/eli5_what_is_rbfreplacebyfee/

[DigitalMonster]

I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) it means that you're not going to bump the fee anymore.

Oк. Let's wait who knows for sure) And another question in which case it may be necessary to set it so as not to raise it any more

[HCP]

OmegaStarScream is correct...

Here is my original (unconfirmed) transactions:



Bumping the fee with the "final" box checked, it marks the transaction as "RBF: False":



But if I leave the box empty, it marks the transaction as "RBF: True":

[khaled0111]

Oк. Let's wait who knows for sure)

What have been said by both Omega and HCP is correct.
If you tick the "Final" checkbox, the transaction will be broadcasted without the RBF flag. Therefore, you will not be able to bump the transaction fees if it gets stuck (btw, right now 150 sat/byte is the recommended fee for a fast confirmation).

And another question in which case it may be necessary to set it so as not to raise it any more

I can't think of any practical use case for this unless when sending a payment to a service/merchant that accepts transactions with zero confirmation. They usually reject RBF transactions and do not accept the payment unless after 1 confirmation or more.

[pooya87]

I can't think of any practical use case for this unless when sending a payment to a service/merchant that accepts transactions with zero confirmation. They usually reject RBF transactions and do not accept the payment unless after 1 confirmation or more.

it is also possible that some nodes or miners' node reject transactions that are "not final" and could be changed in the future. the option is there to let users have a way of removing the RBF flag from their transactions and make it final so that they don't get stuck.

[DigitalMonster]

And another question in which case it may be necessary to set it so as not to raise it any more

I can't think of any practical use case for this unless when sending a payment to a service/merchant that accepts transactions with zero confirmation. They usually reject RBF transactions and do not accept the payment unless after 1 confirmation or more.

Thank you for your comprehensive answer. How do I delete a transaction at all until it is confirmed and if it is RBF?

[mocacinno]

Thank you for your comprehensive answer. How do I delete a transaction at all until it is confirmed and if it is RBF?

You can't delete a transaction once it's broadcasted (doesn't matter if it has the rbf flag or not). You either wait untill it's confirmed or untill most nodes dropped it from their mempool, or you bump the fee (create a new transaction to replace the previous one, but not deleting it).

Why would you want to delete a broadcasted transaction?

[DigitalMonster]

Thank you for your comprehensive answer. How do I delete a transaction at all until it is confirmed and if it is RBF?

You can't delete a transaction once it's broadcasted (doesn't matter if it has the rbf flag or not). You either wait untill it's confirmed or untill most nodes dropped it from their mempool, or you bump the fee (create a new transaction to replace the previous one, but not deleting it).

Why would you want to delete a broadcasted transaction?

In the future, I would just like to have this opportunity. For example on Bitcoin Core this is available and you can cancel a transaction that is still hanging in my pool and has not been confirmed

[mocacinno]

In the future, I would just like to have this opportunity. For example on Bitcoin Core this is available and you can cancel a transaction that is still hanging in my pool and has not been confirmed

you can remove all transactions from your own mempool by stopping core, deleting the mempool db, and starting your wallet with -zapwallettxes, but that's just from your own mempool. AFAIK, the gui has a feature to "abandon transaction", but that's more or less the same (it differs on a couple things on a deeper level, for example iirc abandoning only works after the tx is no longer in your own mempool so it clears the tx from your wallet not your mempool) . Once a valid transaction has been broadcasted, it'll be stored in the mempool of most of the other nodes of the network, nodes you have no controll over whatsoever.

There is no way of "deleting" a transaction from other node's mempools, the only way it'll get cleared from other node's mempool is if your transaction is included into a valid block, or if the node itself decides to remove the transaction (usually because the mempool is over a certain size, or if the transaction remained unconfirmed for a certain amount of time).

I would discourage to abandon or zap unless you have a very good understanding of what you're doing... Eventough you no longer have a record of an unconfirmed transaction that has been abandoned, it might still be available in the mempool of a mining node, so a miner might still use this transaction in his/her block. You might end up paying somebody twice, or you might end up double spending an unconfirmed output, and the receiver might brand you as a "scammer" as a result (eventough you had no intention to scam)

[DigitalMonster]

In the future, I would just like to have this opportunity. For example on Bitcoin Core this is available and you can cancel a transaction that is still hanging in my pool and has not been confirmed

you can remove all transactions from your own mempool by stopping core, deleting the mempool db, and starting your wallet with -zapwallettxes, but that's just from your own mempool. AFAIK, the gui has a feature to "abandon transaction", but that's more or less the same (it differs on a couple things on a deeper level, for example iirc abandoning only works after the tx is no longer in your own mempool so it clears the tx from your wallet not your mempool) . Once a valid transaction has been broadcasted, it'll be stored in the mempool of most of the other nodes of the network, nodes you have no controll over whatsoever.

There is no way of "deleting" a transaction from other node's mempools, the only way it'll get cleared from other node's mempool is if your transaction is included into a valid block, or if the node itself decides to remove the transaction (usually because the mempool is over a certain size, or if the transaction remained unconfirmed for a certain amount of time).

I would discourage to abandon or zap unless you have a very good understanding of what you're doing... Eventough you no longer have a record of an unconfirmed transaction that has been abandoned, it might still be available in the mempool of a mining node, so a miner might still use this transaction in his/her block. You might end up paying somebody twice, or you might end up double spending an unconfirmed output, and the receiver might brand you as a "scammer" as a result (eventough you had no intention to scam)

In Bitcoin Core, this was done simply-I delete the transaction from the mempool, and then conduct a new one with a higher Commission, as soon as it passed - the old one will not be held and will be discarded in any case by all nodes

[mocacinno]

--snip--
In Bitcoin Core, this was done simply-I delete the transaction from the mempool, and then conduct a new one with a higher Commission, as soon as it passed - the old one will not be held and will be discarded in any case by all nodes

Either the transaction had a rbf flag, it wasn't broadcasted succesfully, you waited untill the original transaction was dropped from the mempool of most of the other nodes, the first transaction was invalid or you got extremely lucky to have had it relayed by nodes that were either patched or for any reason didn't have the original tx in their mempools.

The default action for a node when it receives a transaction double spending unspent outputs from an unconfirmed transaction in their mempool without the original tx having an rbf flag is to reject the second (double spending) transaction. This is the case with default node implementations.

Anyways, removing a broadcasted, valid, transaction from your own mempool does not remove it from the mempool of any other node.

The protocol simply does not allow you to remove non-rbf transactions from other node's mempools, simple as that (and for tx's with the rbf flag, you do not remove the original tx either, you simply replace it). So any function from any wallet that says otherwise is simply removing the transaction from your wallet, removes it from your mempool and/or stops broadcasting the transaction. But once a succesfull transaction is broadcasted, it stays broadcasted, and the only thing that'll remove it from other node's mempools is time (a long time) or the presence of the rbf flag in the original tx.

[DigitalMonster]

So the question is how to delete a transaction in Electrum, so that a new RBF type is sent to a mempul but with a higher Commission so that it is carried out faster than the first, but not as now to the same wallet, but to another one, let's say

[Rath_]

So the question is how to delete a transaction in Electrum, so that a new RBF type is sent to a mempul but with a higher Commission so that it is carried out faster than the first, but not as now to the same wallet, but to another one, let's say

You can follow this guide to manually remove a transaction from your wallet and double-spend it. Keep in mind that most nodes by default will reject a transaction spending the same inputs even if it pays a higher fee. You are more likely to succeed after a few days when most nodes drop the first transaction from their mempools.

[bob123]

In Bitcoin Core, this was done simply-I delete the transaction from the mempool, and then conduct a new one with a higher Commission, as soon as it passed - the old one will not be held and will be discarded in any case by all nodes

The first transaction will not be deleted from any node beside yours until your second transaction is confirmed (which does not have to be the case!).
All changes you do to your mempool are exclusively local on your node.

So the question is how to delete a transaction in Electrum

You can not delete transactions from the mempool of all nodes.
You can create a new transaction spending the same utxo's with a higher fee. This can (but does not have to!) lead to your second transaction being included into a block.

[DigitalMonster]

So the question is how to delete a transaction in Electrum, so that a new RBF type is sent to a mempul but with a higher Commission so that it is carried out faster than the first, but not as now to the same wallet, but to another one, let's say

You can follow this guide to manually remove a transaction from your wallet and double-spend it. Keep in mind that most nodes by default will reject a transaction spending the same inputs even if it pays a higher fee. You are more likely to succeed after a few days when most nodes drop the first transaction from their mempools.

Thank you for your comprehensive answer, this is exactly what you needed to know how to do on the Electrum wallet

[DigitalMonster]

Keep in mind that most nodes by default will reject a transaction spending the same inputs even if it pays a higher fee. You are more likely to succeed after a few days when most nodes drop the first transaction from their mempools.

Have there been any changes in this regard with the time of Bitcoin Core 0.16? Then it was done well and all OK nodes accepted the second transaction with a higher Commission first, and the old one was forgotten later and discarded

[BitMaxz]

So the question is how to delete a transaction in Electrum, so that a new RBF type is sent to a mempul but with a higher Commission so that it is carried out faster than the first, but not as now to the same wallet, but to another one, let's say

Seems that your transaction still stuck after bumping the fee and set the transaction as final?

Like other said above, there's no way to delete this transaction once it's broadcasted.

If you want this transaction to confirm very soon you need to do CPFP(Child Pays For Parent) which will help to confirm this transaction(It still depends on your fee).

Follow these guides below how to do CPFP.

- A complete idiot's guide to child pays for parent?

Youtube guide
- How To Get Your Bitcoin Transaction Confirmed with CPFP

This video above you can follow it until 4:20 minutes then copy the generated raw TX then paste it on Electrum wallet you can find it on tools>Load transaction> From text then paste the raw transaction. This is only for safety for the private key you own.

[Rath_]

Have there been any changes in this regard with the time of Bitcoin Core 0.16? Then it was done well and all OK nodes accepted the second transaction with a higher Commission first, and the old one was forgotten later and discarded

Not really, RBF has been already available before Bitcoin Core 0.16 but it wasn't turned on for every transaction by default. If you increase your transaction fee using RBF, you decrease one of your output's value; you don't add new ones or remove them completely. Such transaction replaces the old one without any problems. However, just as I described above, if you create another transaction spending the same inputs but with completely different outputs then most nodes by default will reject such transaction.

Edit: If the initial transaction is marked as replaceable, its inputs can be spent once again to different outputs if the transaction is forgot by your Bitcoin Core wallet (it can be done manually). The built-in "Bump fee" functionality forces users to decrease the change output's value and does not allow to modify other outputs. If the initial transaction is not marked as replaceable then most nodes will reject another transaction as a double-spend attempt.

[HCP]

Have there been any changes in this regard with the time of Bitcoin Core 0.16? Then it was done well and all OK nodes accepted the second transaction with a higher Commission first, and the old one was forgotten later and discarded

No... RBF was rolled into Bitcoin Core in v0.12... which was released in February 2016.

That's a full 2 years BEFORE v0.16 (Feb 2018).

The thing is that RBF was, and still is, Opt-In. You have to specify that you want your transaction to be RBF:



You can set it to default to this by using walletrbf=1 in your bitcoin.conf file