Watoshi-Dimobuto v. zazarb/Lauda

[Lauda]

Account in question: Watoshi-Dimobuto
Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=119405

PM log (all PMs were sent to me before I had responded to any):

Hello,

I had received a negative trust feedback based on https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1702409.msg17096873#msg17096873

This account changed hands through a defaulted loan (original owner defaulted) before 2016. The proof of connection from 2014 is outdated.

Please consider removing negative feedback.

Best regards!

Hello,

IIRC, in 2014 the original owner took a non-collateral loan using this account from s1lverbox, and took another collateral loan with account as collateral from another lender and defaulted both loans.

The new lender paid s1lverbox to remove negative trust on defaulted collateral and after another default he bought account from watoshi. Default negative trusts were removed and account was listed for sale.

As you can see from my post history, I am more a lending person than a borrowing person. I don't like to be accused for what someone else did and I want to clear my name.

Takes loan : (Defaulted by Watoshi, Paid by new owner of account)

As discussed on pm.

Loan amount: 0.02 btc
Term length:7 days
Interest: 20%
Bitcoin address: 1AGxNes379Hk3skAtQPbH2S14K22gBeovg

Repayment please within 7 days to wallet at first post.

Tx: https://blockchain.info/address/1AGxNes379Hk3skAtQPbH2S14K22gBeovg

Thank you received!

Defaulted loan repaid privately :

I have another user watoshi...which defaulted me but person who has that account paid me off and account is for sale as well in his thread.

What I mean to say is the loan defaulter also defaulted on loans taken from this account after giving this account as collateral. Please remove the negative trust.

Best regards,
The current Watoshi Dimobuto account holder since 5 years

Hello,

None of the other accounts are/were in my control. My request concerns only this account.

I just noticed the feedback is for a 0.6 loan and the reference links to a 0.06 loan. Not that I care.

Best regards,
Watoshi-Dimobuto

Cross-referencing from the Lending section (I do not post there) and his attack on zazarb: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1318061.msg54442961#msg54442961.

[YOSHIE]

Cross-referencing from the Lending section (I do not post there) and his attack on zazarb: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1318061.msg54442961#msg54442961.

I think @Lauda forgot something.
Maybe you should visit the main account @Watoshi-Dimobuto.

1. Watoshi

Trust: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=378536

want to join. my btc address: 1AGxNes379Hk3skAtQPbH2S14K22gBeovg

http://archive.is/rmUWi

Post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1096719.msg12878788#msg12878788

Loan: BTC 0.02
Reason: To pay my hosting
Repayment: BTC 0.025 in 7 days.
Bitcoin Address: 1AGxNes379Hk3skAtQPbH2S14K22gBeovg

http://archive.is/wip/J1w9u

Topic: [User Generated] - Known alts of anyone

Even though you have never posted on the loan section @zazarb, you have given them a negative belief.


It seems that what @ Watoshi-Dimobuto says has a point in @Lauda's PM.

OP, in your case, the very responsible person is @Lauda to get rid of red or vice versa, the decision is in @Lauda, ​​hopefully he can make a wise decision.

[Watoshi-Dimobuto]

I always considered LaudaM a trustworthy person. Now I see he only wants to punish someone for what someone else did and call it justice.

I stand by the fact that the loan defaulter you talk about sold this account to the lender after defaulting the loan (this should be no surprise).

Over the years I used this account, I never scammed or defaulted on any loans. In fact, I don't remember taking any loans. The very reason I did not sell the account in 2016 when I went for the long period of inactivity was because I discourage buying and selling accounts. This account had only positive untrusted feedback when I left and buyers could use it to run scams and ICOs. I had offers to buy the account in PM. I turned them down.

I want the 0.01BTC from gkv9 out of zazarb's escrow. How hard is to donate 0.01BTC to https://www.savethechildren.org/?

Did you know that it actually takes more time to make this thread than do as I suggested in the past PM? Do you really make new threads for all private messages you get?


What does Watoshi's loan default 5 years ago have to do with zazarb? How does it concern you? Are you zazarb?

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

[zazarb]

To donate 0.01BTC to https://www.savethechildren.org/?, I need mandate of real Watoshi-Dimobuto.
How hard it is for you to understand.

[Watoshi-Dimobuto]

To donate 0.01BTC to https://www.savethechildren.org/?, I need mandate of real Watoshi-Dimobuto.
How hard it is for you to understand.

When it comes to parting with my money, you act like a professional escrow.

Why don't you first send the funds you stole back to the escrow address?

Hey guys, I would like to update you that I recently got a message from manager that I got paid currently...
I am extremely happy that now I will be able to put the amount in Zazarb's escrow service to prove myself innocent...  

if you want I can  escrow this, but it is not guaranteed that people who have left you negative trust, will remove it.
(I will send confirmation to blazr and QS)
escrow address if you want monitoring 13onqzPnGzazarbReooW4sBkqEgKPoMwZV  (you should send full amount +tx fee)

Can you please confirm that the above mentioned address with monitoring is still on???
I will then send the amount... Also, I would like to let you know that only BTC0.01 is remaining, so please let me know that exactly how much should I send you to that address???

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

This is zazarb from bitcointalk. Today is 27/09/ 2016

I confirm that  address to escrow 13onqzPnGzazarbReooW4sBkqEgKPoMwZV
please send  remaining amount what you owe  Watoshi-Dimobuto (0,01BTC+tx fee 0.0001)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: Keybase OpenPGP v2.0.58
Comment: https://keybase.io/crypto

wsBcBAABCgAGBQJX6mDtAAoJEEesS+GBgNwFyI0H+gPLFNQbfweCrJ0NfauasDOL
RSNwWmA4EXjpkRK1VAH3xBTheMmbGyb/H75pbajD5s0yBeWzuVZzhugrZB5Wq1xj
xRGwLRksS2KvVLTYdCULGT1cr7Im0dH7h8G27vsKR3qVWwW5qwHX+PZ85Om0sXSa
mOjkJfhfXv1818ms2bKfxw817M0ek++Zi7WuOa+JxkJXIug4TbFWmPla9FdDRH+d
6ARAXNmYaZ0hBL8DZlk5jG4tZd16ChlMycYTEtovBJA2GJv6RsiE55ZYPatNFeFQ
0NnnVI4OARm/7JUKcjX79XvKKheyhdiRJQZ/892x/xFlQX46j62ukWPbeyi8KgA=
=ARJ3
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

[zazarb]

To donate 0.01BTC to https://www.savethechildren.org/?, I need mandate of real Watoshi-Dimobuto.
How hard it is for you to understand.

When it comes to parting with my money, you act like a professional escrow.

Why don't you first send the funds you stole back to the escrow address?

Hey guys, I would like to update you that I recently got a message from manager that I got paid currently...
I am extremely happy that now I will be able to put the amount in Zazarb's escrow service to prove myself innocent...  

if you want I can  escrow this, but it is not guaranteed that people who have left you negative trust, will remove it.
(I will send confirmation to blazr and QS)
escrow address if you want monitoring 13onqzPnGzazarbReooW4sBkqEgKPoMwZV  (you should send full amount +tx fee)

Can you please confirm that the above mentioned address with monitoring is still on???
I will then send the amount... Also, I would like to let you know that only BTC0.01 is remaining, so please let me know that exactly how much should I send you to that address???

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

This is zazarb from bitcointalk. Today is 27/09/ 2016

I confirm that  address to escrow 13onqzPnGzazarbReooW4sBkqEgKPoMwZV
please send  remaining amount what you owe  Watoshi-Dimobuto (0,01BTC+tx fee 0.0001)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: Keybase OpenPGP v2.0.58
Comment: https://keybase.io/crypto

wsBcBAABCgAGBQJX6mDtAAoJEEesS+GBgNwFyI0H+gPLFNQbfweCrJ0NfauasDOL
RSNwWmA4EXjpkRK1VAH3xBTheMmbGyb/H75pbajD5s0yBeWzuVZzhugrZB5Wq1xj
xRGwLRksS2KvVLTYdCULGT1cr7Im0dH7h8G27vsKR3qVWwW5qwHX+PZ85Om0sXSa
mOjkJfhfXv1818ms2bKfxw817M0ek++Zi7WuOa+JxkJXIug4TbFWmPla9FdDRH+d
6ARAXNmYaZ0hBL8DZlk5jG4tZd16ChlMycYTEtovBJA2GJv6RsiE55ZYPatNFeFQ
0NnnVI4OARm/7JUKcjX79XvKKheyhdiRJQZ/892x/xFlQX46j62ukWPbeyi8KgA=
=ARJ3
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

If you want people to take your words seriously, prove that you real Watoshi-Dimobuto first!
And stop trolling, don't need to be very smart to check my lending thread(biggest and oldest in section) to see which btc addresses  I use and how much btc hold.

[Quickseller]

Assuming you believe s1lveebox, his account was sold in or after October 2014 per https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=770600.msg9065221#msg9065221

The connection between Watoshi-Dimobuto and the rest is prior to when this happened. Watoshi-Dimobuto‘s connection is from August 2014.

The repayment address for the loan in question is here and is unedited. Being that this is a different address that he is being asked to disburse the funds to, I don’t think it is unreasonable to ask for verification, unless he can agree to have the funds sent to the repayment address.

[TalkStar]

What does Watoshi's loan default 5 years ago have to do with zazarb? How does it concern you? Are you zazarb?

Quite childish question and sorry to say that it's not unexpected from a new owner of this account. I wanna let you know that its not only a matter of concern for Lauda but also for the entire forum community. You are holding the new ownership of an account which was tagged due to default on a loan and asking question whats wrong here! Huh .

I don't see anything wrong to prove the ownership from your end. zazarb is just trying to see ownership confirmation from you and its reasonable.    

[Watoshi-Dimobuto]

I agree. The funds can be sent to repayment address.

What does Watoshi's loan default 5 years ago have to do with zazarb? How does it concern you? Are you zazarb?

Quite childish question and sorry to say that it's not unexpected from a new owner of this account. I wanna let you know that its not only a matter of concern for Lauda but also for the entire forum community. You are holding the new ownership of an account which was tagged due to default on a loan and asking question whats wrong here! Huh . 

QS, can you give an honest opinion on zazarb's conduct as escrow?

What does Watoshi's loan default 5 years ago have to do with zazarb? How does it concern you? Are you zazarb?

Quite childish question and sorry to say that it's not unexpected from a new owner of this account. I wanna let you know that its not only a matter of concern for Lauda but also for the entire forum community. You are holding the new ownership of an account which was tagged due to default on a loan and asking question whats wrong here! Huh .

The opening post is about two separate incidents.

What is the matter of concern?
I didn't hack into this account and I knew of Watoshi's default only when I saw shorena's trust feedback.

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

[Quickseller]

QS, can you give an honest opinion on zazarb's conduct as escrow?

I don’t think it is unreasonable to confirm he is releasing the money to the correct person, given the circumstances. The question shouldn’t have been to prove you are the original owner of the account but rather that you are the same person who gave the loan.

I would not move the bitcoin to a different address, unless there was a security reason to do so (or if it was done in error and was quickly moved back). I would also not commingle bitcoin held in escrow with my own personal bitcoin unless there is an agreement explicitly allowing this (commingling escrow money is akin to taking an unauthorized loan). Some people might disagree with me on these points.

I don’t think there is any basis for charging penalty interest to the escrow agent for delaying the disbursement.

Now that you have agreed to receive the payment to the original address you were scheduled to receive payment to, I believe it would be inappropriate to continue to withhold/delay releasing the bitcoin held in escrow.

[Lauda]

I always considered LaudaM a trustworthy person. Now I see he only wants to punish someone for what someone else did and call it justice.

You are not the original owner of the account and that is that. Mind sharing with us why in particular you have come back now? What are the plans?

Did you know that it actually takes more time to make this thread than do as I suggested in the past PM? Do you really make new threads for all private messages you get?

Yes, and I will continue to do so whenever I am attacked or when I need input from the community in such a situation.

Now that you have agreed to receive the payment to the original address you were scheduled to receive payment to, I believe it would be inappropriate to continue to withhold/delay releasing the bitcoin held in escrow.

Not if the account is compromised and the current user is not the same as the one who made the loan. Quick and dirty wait to clean the account would be doing the above.

Maybe you should visit the main account @Watoshi-Dimobuto.

Yes, I forgot to add these.

[Watoshi-Dimobuto]

QS, can you give an honest opinion on zazarb's conduct as escrow?

I don’t think it is unreasonable to confirm he is releasing the money to the correct person, given the circumstances. The question shouldn’t have been to prove you are the original owner of the account but rather that you are the same person who gave the loan.

IMO it is unreasonable for $95. My PGP key is not linked to bitcointalk account and my address is not staked in https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=996318.0.

It is practically difficult for me right now to access the wallet I think I was using in 2016. I might be able to sign some other addresses if I spend a day or two on it. Would you spend a day or two for $95?

I would not move the bitcoin to a different address, unless there was a security reason to do so (or if it was done in error and was quickly moved back). I would also not commingle bitcoin held in escrow with my own personal bitcoin unless there is an agreement explicitly allowing this (commingling escrow money is akin to taking an unauthorized loan). Some people might disagree with me on these points.

Exactly. I don't understand how this is tolerated. I have never transacted with this kind of escrow before.

I don’t think there is any basis for charging penalty interest to the escrow agent for delaying the disbursement.

I consider it an unauthorized loan. IMO he should pay a reasonable interest. Escrow agents shouldn't get away with taking interest-free collateral-free unauthorized loans from escrowed funds.

He doesn't have to pay the interest to me. He can donate it to the forum.

I always considered LaudaM a trustworthy person. Now I see he only wants to punish someone for what someone else did and call it justice.

You are not the original owner of the account and that is that.

I am the owner of this account. I did not create the account. It is the truth. At present this account has nothing to do with the defaulter or anyone else. I don't see how the fact that I did not create this account offends you.

Mind sharing with us why in particular you have come back now? What are the plans?

I haven't. I will leave for another long period of inactivity soon.

Now that you have agreed to receive the payment to the original address you were scheduled to receive payment to, I believe it would be inappropriate to continue to withhold/delay releasing the bitcoin held in escrow.

Not if the account is compromised and the current user is not the same as the one who made the loan. Quick and dirty wait to clean the account would be doing the above.

Not sure if you are trying to achieve anything here.

I don't care about your negative feedback. You can leave a few more if you like. I wanted to clear up that I didn't default the loan and I don't deserve the negative feedback. While I was in control of this account, I didn't scam, spam or farm accounts.

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

[Lauda]

I am the owner of this account. I did not create the account. It is the truth. At present this account has nothing to do with the defaulter or anyone else. I don't see how the fact that I did not create this account offends you.

You are not the original owner of the account. There is nothing to discuss with that fact.

Mind sharing with us why in particular you have come back now? What are the plans?

I haven't. I will leave for another long period of inactivity soon.

Why are you wasting my time then? Go away.

[Watoshi-Dimobuto]

zazarb has refused to release escrow to original repayment address.

[DireWolfM14]

zazarb has refused to release escrow to original repayment address.

I have no dog in this pissing match, but @zazarb, this is king of disturbing.  It's the same address that Watoshi-Dimobuto wanted his repayment sent to 4 years ago, why is that not enough?

Lets assume for a second the account changed hands since Watoshi-Dimobuto funded the loan gkv9, and along with the sale of the account the new owner was giving possession of the private key associated with 1624xVu7J5nscwYqmuBvhPidjMvBqgoN5H.  The seller of the account must have known that if there were any obligations pending to that address he would risk losing them to the new owner of the account.  Now that's not justification, I know but after all, your "contractual" obligation was to send the loan repayment to that address.  No one would fault you for sending the funds to the address to which you originally agreed.

@Watoshi-Dimobuto, this is gong on for three days now, how hard would it have been to dig up an old address to sign a message?

This whole thing has really been blown out of proportion, and now it seems like both Watoshi-Dimobuto and zazarb are just being stubborn.

As for Lauda's tag, y'all are on your own to figure that one out.  I'm staying out of it.

[Lauda]

I have no dog in this pissing match, but @zazarb, this is king of disturbing.  It's the same address that Watoshi-Dimobuto wanted his repayment sent to 4 years ago, why is that not enough?

Now that you have agreed to receive the payment to the original address you were scheduled to receive payment to, I believe it would be inappropriate to continue to withhold/delay releasing the bitcoin held in escrow.

Not if the account is compromised and the current user is not the same as the one who made the loan. Quick and dirty wait to clean the account would be doing the above.

This is the problem. Either a signed message from the original address or the repayment address is needed. For all you and I know I could be the current owner of Watoshi-Dimobuto.

[Watoshi-Dimobuto]

@Watoshi-Dimobuto, this is gong on for three days now, how hard would it have been to dig up an old address to sign a message?

Trust me, it is harder than I imagined.

This is the problem. Either a signed message from the original address or the repayment address is needed. For all you and I know I could be the current owner of Watoshi-Dimobuto.

Yes, I am Lauda. I suppose we are alts now. 

[zazarb]

I have no dog in this pissing match, but @zazarb, this is king of disturbing.  It's the same address that Watoshi-Dimobuto wanted his repayment sent to 4 years ago, why is that not enough?

Now that you have agreed to receive the payment to the original address you were scheduled to receive payment to, I believe it would be inappropriate to continue to withhold/delay releasing the bitcoin held in escrow.

Not if the account is compromised and the current user is not the same as the one who made the loan. Quick and dirty wait to clean the account would be doing the above.

This is the problem. Either a signed message from the original address or the repayment address is needed. For all you and I know I could be the current owner of Watoshi-Dimobuto.

To understand my position more clearly, just need to answer  the question, why gkv9 did not send the money directly to repayment address in 2016,
but used me as escrow with the obligation to transfer funds to Watoshi-Dimobuto when he come back?(at that time he was missing for only a few weeks)

You can say he's already back, do you guarantee 100% that it is the same person? I don't. And he doesn’t bother to prove the opposite. It is not at all difficult to prove that address in your possession even if you not have priv key.

As I said other thread , If someone thinks otherwise and takes responsibility , I am happy to transfer the funds to another trustworthy escrow service.

[Lauda]

I'm sure he didn't expect you to take the money for yourself.

I will not permit accusations of theft against zazarb like this. Thread closed with your post deleted and used as a reference post for your negative ratings.

Now that you have agreed to receive the payment to the original address you were scheduled to receive payment to, I believe it would be inappropriate to continue to withhold/delay releasing the bitcoin held in escrow.

Not if the account is compromised and the current user is not the same as the one who made the loan. Quick and dirty wait to clean the account would be doing the above.

Conclusion: Nothing more than an attempt of a stolen account to wipe itself clean.