Bitcoin insurance

[LiteCoinGuy]

now tell me how will an insurance company prove or disprove a theft and that thief is not also the claimant

The way Elliptic works, they store the coins for you. You don't have the private key, they do. That's sounds logical; insurance fraud aside, they can't know how secure your computer is against keyloggers etc. The reason they are willing to offer insurance is that they have confidence in their own storage. No-one can steal the coins, not even you.

I think that kind of insurance will become quite common. The vaults that offer insurance will probably offer other services, like making regular scheduled payments. They be much like an online bank.

think so too. and for mass adoption, we need this kind of service in my view.

[ecto]

anybody who

a) cares enough to want bitcoins
b) knowns enough to be able to acquire bitcoins
c) cares enough to want to secure those bitcoins

is going to

a) know how to learn things
b) make an m-of-n paper wallet
c) not give their coins to someone else

so this service will only resonate with

a) fools
b) sloths

[Cactusizer]

We needs to know who you are in real life to make it more safe and more informations how on safe your insurance is?

[justusranvier]

The vaults that offer insurance will probably offer other services, like making regular scheduled payments. They be much like an online bank.

Yes, they will offer other services.

Like undisclosed rehypothecation.

[jonald_fyookball]

I think this will be difficult.  What happens when the insurance
company loses the coins or goes bankrupt?

In some US states, in some insurance markets, the other
insurance companies are required by law to insure
all the other insurance companies...so the consumer
is protected no matter what.  I don't think this
would be feasible in the bitcoin world.

Perhaps it could work if the insurance company
held some other kind of assets like real estate,
gold, that could be liquidated in a worst case
scenario.  I think that someone, sooner or
later, will adopt this model and it will become the norm
if bitcoin insurance is to be a reality.

[emeraldforce]

anybody who

a) cares enough to want bitcoins
b) knowns enough to be able to acquire bitcoins
c) cares enough to want to secure those bitcoins

is going to

a) know how to learn things
b) make an m-of-n paper wallet
c) not give their coins to someone else

so this service will only resonate with

a) fools
b) sloths

Anybody who
D)WORKS FOR A CORPORATION

is going to

D)WANT TO SECURE THEIR CORPORATION's BITCOINS.

So this service will only resonate with a,b and
C) CORPORATIONS

Class dismissed.....

[franky1]

now tell me how will an insurance company prove or disprove a theft and that thief is not also the claimant

The way Elliptic works, they store the coins for you. You don't have the private key, they do. That's sounds logical; insurance fraud aside, they can't know how secure your computer is against keyloggers etc. The reason they are willing to offer insurance is that they have confidence in their own storage. No-one can steal the coins, not even you.

I think that kind of insurance will become quite common. The vaults that offer insurance will probably offer other services, like making regular scheduled payments. They be much like an online bank.

Elliptic vault is insured by an actually regulated institution that is accountable and can be taken to court if they steal your coins.

the OP is just an individual with no rep and no licencing to offer insurance.

would anyone in their right mind let him hold your coins under basically a vapour promise that if he steals your coins he will repay you using the insurance fee's he also asks from you to hold your coins.

take gox for instance. steals 740k coin and trying to buy people off with just 200k coin.. can you see where im getting at

the OP and elliptic vault are on 2 different scales and should not be confused.

i was more talking about insuring funds we can actually transact with, not hoard coins. because i and many people know that making a paper wallet and putting funds into that offline cold store paper wallet that has never touched a PC or a third party is a damned better proposal then giving it to third parties.

if giving it to third parties. you might aswell give it to a bank, and ignore what the whole benefit of what bitcoin is all about

[madsquirrel]

Will I be interested in insurance for the currency which cannot be trusted? needless to say I will!

[franky1]

Will I be interested in insurance for the currency which cannot be trusted? needless to say I will!

i too.. but i want the OP to explain, seeing as he is not regulated or experienced in being a "bank" and as he doesnt have the qualifications or rep to just insure storage of funds. how he will insure peoples transactions and the movement of funds p2p.

[jonald_fyookball]

now tell me how will an insurance company prove or disprove a theft and that thief is not also the claimant

The way Elliptic works, they store the coins for you. You don't have the private key, they do. That's sounds logical; insurance fraud aside, they can't know how secure your computer is against keyloggers etc. The reason they are willing to offer insurance is that they have confidence in their own storage. No-one can steal the coins, not even you.

I think that kind of insurance will become quite common. The vaults that offer insurance will probably offer other services, like making regular scheduled payments. They be much like an online bank.

Elliptic vault is insured by an actually regulated institution that is accountable and can be taken to court if they steal your coins.

the OP is just an individual with no rep and no licencing to offer insurance.

would anyone in their right mind let him hold your coins under basically a vapour promise that if he steals your coins he will repay you using the insurance fee's he also asks from you to hold your coins.

take gox for instance. steals 740k coin and trying to buy people off with just 200k coin.. can you see where im getting at

the OP and elliptic vault are on 2 different scales and should not be confused.

i was more talking about insuring funds we can actually transact with, not hoard coins. because i and many people know that making a paper wallet and putting funds into that offline cold store paper wallet that has never touched a PC or a third party is a damned better proposal then giving it to third parties.

if giving it to third parties. you might aswell give it to a bank, and ignore what the whole benefit of what bitcoin is all about

Regulated and accountable is not enough.  What's the point of taking a company to court if they are just going to declare bankruptcy? IMO, due to the nature of bitcoin, the insurance company must have other assets on the same order of magnitude as the coins they are holding that can be seized and liquidated in a worst case scenario.

[franky1]

Regulated and accountable is not enough.  What's the point of taking a company to court if they are just going to declare bankruptcy? IMO, due to the nature of bitcoin, the insurance company must have other assets on the same order of magnitude as the coins they are holding that can be seized and liquidated in a worst case scenario.

part of being regulated and accountable is just as you said. having their own money set aside as backup, and not just using the premium fee's as the funds pot.

take exchanges, part of the licencing (becoming regulated) is to hand over a chunk of money to secure customers liabilities. thus by bing regulated you know there is a stash of THIER cash locked away in government control. to be used if the company runs off.

but i get the feeling that the OP doesnt want to be regulated, but wants to be more BS&T rather then elliptic vault. but thats besides the point.

if i had 1btc in MY wallet. and it was stolen. he needs to explain how id be insured firstly and how i can make a claim to get funds back or he can prove/disprove my funds were actually stolen, to ensure claims are done honorably.

for example. gox was not regulated. so how would OP's insurance protect me and reimburse me if i had gox funds going missing.. i know the answer, im just waiting for him to say it

[jonald_fyookball]

Regulated and accountable is not enough.  What's the point of taking a company to court if they are just going to declare bankruptcy? IMO, due to the nature of bitcoin, the insurance company must have other assets on the same order of magnitude as the coins they are holding that can be seized and liquidated in a worst case scenario.

part of being regulated and accountable is just as you said. having their own money set aside as backup, and not just using the premium fee's as the funds pot.

take exchanges, part of the licencing (becoming regulated) is to hand over a chunk of money to secure customers liabilities. thus by bing regulated you know there is a stash of THIER cash locked away in government control. to be used if the company runs off.

but i get the feeling that the OP doesnt want to be regulated, but wants to be more BS&T rather then elliptic vault. but thats besides the point.

if i had 1btc in MY wallet. and it was stolen. he needs to explain how id be insured firstly and how i can make a claim to get funds back or he can prove/disprove my funds were actually stolen, to ensure claims are done honorably.

for example. gox was not regulated. so how would OP's insurance protect me and reimburse me if i had gox funds going missing.. i know the answer, im just waiting for him to say it

I am not a big fan of government regulation in general.  In a perfect world, companies and the market would self regulate.  No intelligent consumer would buy bitcoin insurance from a vault that didn't have adequate reserves.

However, that might be idealistic. People are dumb, and bitcoin is not well understood yet.  So perhaps in the short term some sensible regulation would be pragmatic.

[grifferz]

I was curious to know if anyone would be interested in insurance for their bitcoins.  I'm in  just process of starting one here in the U.S.  I have the financial backing needed to pull this off just have to prove to investors that people actually would want it. 

Almost 30 hours later and OP has not yet been back to explain what he is insuring against what, who is insuring it, and to provide proof of their backing.

It's not looking good, OP. You need to prepare your pitches way better than this.

[5thStreetResearch]

At Xapo you can insure your bitcoin for .12% per year.  Can you beat those rates bud?

[leopard2]

And who insures Xapo against subpoenas et cetera?

BTC at such places, are as safe as FIAT was at Swiss banks  safe only from private thieves

For exchanges cold wallets it may be OK though.

[grifferz]

Quite, I've yet to see any evidence that Xapo's insurers are insuring against loss of customer BTC through theft or incompetence on behalf of Xapo.

[podyx]

[5thStreetResearch]

And who insures Xapo against subpoenas et cetera?

BTC at such places, are as safe as FIAT was at Swiss banks  safe only from private thieves

For exchanges cold wallets it may be OK though.

wtf would they be subpoena'd for? 

[Brangdon]

Quite, I've yet to see any evidence that Xapo's insurers are insuring against loss of customer BTC through theft or incompetence on behalf of Xapo.

Is there some reason you don't consider the statements they make on their website to be evidence? From https://xapo.com/#aboutVault

In addition, the Vault is fully-insured, backed by Meridian Insurance. The insurance is provided at no charge to Vault users and covers all incidents that are not caused by you. For example, the insurance covers attacks by hackers, theft by a Xapo employee, a break-in at the physical vault location, and our bankruptcy. In this event, any bitcoins you lose will be replaced by Xapo. The only thing you’re not insured against are your own actions or error, for example, if you don’t follow basic security precautions (like picking “internet” for your password) or if you give you password to someone else who then steals your coins.

"Theft by a Xapo employee" is right there in the list.

[grifferz]

Quite, I've yet to see any evidence that Xapo's insurers are insuring against loss of customer BTC through theft or incompetence on behalf of Xapo.

Is there some reason you don't consider the statements they make on their website to be evidence? From https://xapo.com/#aboutVault

Yes, I would need for Meridian Insurance to put out a statement that they are insuring Xapo against loss of bitcoins under those circumstances. I'd also want to know more about Meridian Insurance.

Unfortunately people lie, so we will never be able to have 100% trust. But that would go some small way.