UK severs ties with Iranian Banks

[meanig]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15823622

The UK has imposed new sanctions against Iran which will cut off all financial ties with Iranian banks.

From 1500 GMT on Monday, UK credit and financial institutions were required to cease all transactions with banks including the Central Bank of Iran.

Chancellor George Osborne said there was evidence that Iran's banks were funding its nuclear weapons programme

Iran needs an international decentralized payment system. Should we add this to our list of examples where Bitcoin could be useful?

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[ALPHA.]

Well, thanks for getting us on the radar. All of us are probably on some US terrorist watch list now.

[MysteryMiner]

Bitcoins could help Iran, because in Iran there is no internation credit cards (no VISA, no Mastercard are allowed to operate in Iran), and do You remember that ALL accounts of iranian citizens were seized by PayPal and the funds was basically stolen. And after such actions there is surprise that Iran wants to get nuclear weapons, since both united kingdom and usa already have them. And USA shot down Iranian airliner with missle over sea, and USA supported the opressive regime of autoritarian dictator.

[evoorhees]

Well, thanks for getting us on the radar. All of us are probably on some US terrorist watch list now.

If you're a resident of Earth, you are on this list. Land of the free.

[Shuai]

I honestly think this is a great opportunity.

The Iranian government is evil and batshit insane. I can almost see them adopting and promoting bitcoin just to hurt the western worlds governments. In this case the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

But I think the people who could truly benefit from bitcoin in iran, are not their government or central bankers, but, like in the rest of the world, the average iranian citizens that are no doubt being economically, in addition to politically, oppressed by their regime.

[tvbcof]

Bitcoins could help Iran, because in Iran there is no internation credit cards (no VISA, no Mastercard are allowed to operate in Iran), and do You remember that ALL accounts of iranian citizens were seized by PayPal and the funds was basically stolen. And after such actions there is surprise that Iran wants to get nuclear weapons, since both united kingdom and usa already have them. And USA shot down Iranian airliner with missle over sea, and USA supported the opressive regime of autoritarian dictator.

Agreed.  There is exactly one country that has a legitimate and justifiable need for a handful of nuclear weapons, and that country is Iran.  It is a responsibility they have to their citizens else their country is almost certain to end up in the same miserable condition as Iraq.

It is in my interest (as an American and resident of Earth) that Iran gets nukes and delivery systems if they do not already in order to prevent an American attack (along with our normal pack of lackeys.)  That would probably be a hand on China's jugular that, for the life of their country, they could not tolerate and very well could spell WW-III.  Even if not, a marginal amount of support (like we gave the mujaheddin against the USSR) could very well end up in a painful and costly rout from the peripheries of our current empire.

[wareen]

Actually this is something where I think it's great that Bitcoin is not valued any higher.

Why? Because in its current state, Bitcoin can help mitigate the impact for normal people who just want to send some money to their families but have a hard time doing so because of banking embargoes. At the same time, it is utterly useless when it comes to bigger transfers for the government or the military.

Of course, with the level of Iran's Internet censorship, deep packet inspection and whatnot, it might not be very easy/safe to use Bitcoin there.

[tvbcof]

Actually this is something where I think it's great that Bitcoin is not valued any higher.

Why? Because in its current state, Bitcoin can help mitigate the impact for normal people who just want to send some money to their families but have a hard time doing so because of banking embargoes. At the same time, it is utterly useless when it comes to bigger transfers for the government or the military.

Of course, with the level of Iran's Internet censorship, deep packet inspection and whatnot, it might not be very easy/safe to use Bitcoin there.

One does not have to 'use' Bitcoin 'in' a particular locale if doing so is risky.  That is one of the more stunning beauties of Bitcoin (to me.)  But it is probably the case that using it from at an offshore locale in a secure way takes more technical skill than a lot of people might have.

[joepie91]

Forwarded from irc:

--- Log opened Mon Oct 31 18:58:37 2011
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-!- Irssi: Join to #technotux was synced in 0 secs
< alolymous> hey
< SterNiX> hi
< alolymous> bebakshid, farsi-am khob harf nemizanam. inglis bebinam
< alolymous> so have any of you heard of bitcoin?
< SterNiX> i have heard of its name alolymous
-!- ArmanHayeEmam is now known as NamirolMomenin
< alolymous> what do you know about it?
< alolymous> is there anyone here from isfahan lug?
-!- NamirolMomenin [~hidensoft@unaffiliated/hidensoft] has left #technotux ["Leaving"]
< SterNiX> not at the mo alolymous
< SterNiX> theyre a couple that i know of
< SterNiX> there could be more, but i only know of 2
< alolymous> ok so i work with bitcoin
< SterNiX> aha nice to meet u
< alolymous> my father is from iran, and i have spent time in iran in the past
< alolymous> and this project has something to offer to iran i think
< alolymous> however it's complicated
< alolymous> as the project uses vast amounts of cryptography and networking concepts
< alolymous> does mohi still participate in ubuntu/linuxshop.ir?
< SterNiX> i got an email form linuxshop.ir
< SterNiX> and i think he does
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< alolymous> http://arioslinux.org/ haha cute
-!- maour [~maour@unaffiliated/maour] has joined #technotux
< alolymous> SterNiX: Short version of what bitcoin is: it is a currency, but an entirely new kind of currency that can’t be seized or frozen by governments, one which is integrated with its transaction system where transaction fees are optional, and where you can transfer any amount anywhere instantly without any authority knowing or interfering.
< alolymous> good article: http://falkvinge.net/2011/05/19/the-information-policy-case-for-flat-tax-and-basic-income/
< alolymous> i'm thinking that using bitcoin, iranians could pay for goods using paypal
< alolymous> and get around the US embargo
-!- miadbahrami [~miadbahra@178.131.221.6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
< alolymous> so would that be a useful thing for iranians? a way to buy paypal dollars using rial
< acathur> though getting some bitcoins is not easy imo at first place
< alolymous> acathur: you mean in iran?
< acathur> alolymous: no, i mean in general
< alolymous> from which country?
< acathur> iran
< alolymous> USA/Europe/UK it's pretty easy
< alolymous> yeah hence an iranian exchange
< alolymous> imagine people could easily trade goods around online with the rest of the world without having restrictions on how they spend their money
< alolymous> transferring money in and out of iran is near impossible.
< alolymous> but with bitcoins it'd be really easy.
< alolymous> it would even be possible to order goods from the USA to Iran
< acathur> by getting bitcoins i meant having some bitcoins for payment
< acathur> mining bitcoins just isn't a good idea anymore afaik, so one would need to exchange them with dollars for example
< acathur> and that's the problem
< alolymous> it really isn't.
< alolymous> let me explain how a bitcoin exchange works
< alolymous> persons A, B, C want BTC for their IRR, persons X, Y, Z want IRR for their BTC
< alolymous> so the second group demands bitcoins and puts up a buy order of 100 IRR for 10 BTC
< alolymous> however there isn't much bitcoin available, so the first group only sells a tiny amount
< alolymous> 1 BTC for 10 IRR
< alolymous> that quickly gets bought up. but then A, B, C want bitcoins still eventhough there isn't any on the market
< alolymous> so they start to compete and place higher orders (demand goes up)
< alolymous> 99 IRR on the market
< alolymous> X, Y, Z decide to put up 6 BTC
< alolymous> therefore the market reaches a supply-demand equillibrium at 99 IRR = 6 BTC
< alolymous> now somebody sees the price is a lot higher on the UK exchange.
< alolymous> by buying GBP with their IRR, they can engage in arbitrage and make money
< alolymous> again the supply-demand relationship brings a market equillibrium
< alolymous> http://bitcoinwatch.com/
< alolymous> if you denominate the USD price in GBP then you'll see they're very similar because of arbitrage
< acathur> true. yet i couldn't find anyone who would exhange BTC for IRR or the other way. so i'd probably need to use a third currency in the middle, using the BTC -> USD -> IRR or the other way around
< alolymous> that's why i'm saying to make an exchange in iran
< alolymous> BTC -> IRR
< alolymous> then present it as a cheap/easy way to make payments to/from iran
< alolymous> since right now, it is impossible to send money to iran
< acathur> i like what you say too, but do you know anyone or anywhere to do that now? i need BTC and there's just no one who'd exchange for IRR
< alolymous> when i started out with bitcoin 1 year ago. i had no way to buy bitcoins
< alolymous> so i created the UK exchange
< alolymous> it's very easy now to get money in the UK
< acathur> (just asked mohi to join here)
< alolymous> ok cool. he knows me from a long time ago
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< alolymous> i was waiting to see why nothing was happening in iran
< alolymous> there is at least one iranian user: whois bitcoin.ir
< alolymous> registered with IRNIC (so inside iran)
< alolymous> and an address in Tehran
< alolymous> mohi: hey
< mohi> hey buddy!
< alolymous>
< mohi> wasup?
< alolymous> do you still run linuxshop.ir?
< alolymous> i saw you have ubuntu 11.10 on there
< mohi> ya
< mohi> not much time for it. there are some operators soing the stuff ;-)?
< mohi> doing*
< alolymous> what are you doing now you left the army?
-!- Shahrzad [~shahrzad@2.183.30.95] has joined #technotux
< mohi> just messing around ;-)
-!- miadbahrami [~miadbahra@178.131.221.6] has joined #technotux
< mohi> ya my military service has finished
< mohi> acathur: pinch you buddy
< alolymous> that's cool.
< mohi> alolymous: are still working on bitcoin?
< alolymous> yes
< mohi> alolymous: woohooo my famous friend ;-)
< alolymous> i was trying to message you a ton before because bitcoin is incredible
< mohi> wow nice
< mohi> i think acathur has something in common with you then on bitcoin!
< mohi> ping acathur
< alolymous> like i'm surprised why this takes off in a huge way in USA and UK
< alolymous> but not in Iran
< acathur> mohi: ?
< alolymous> in iran where something like this is needed more than anywhere else
< alolymous> and i was sitting there waiting. wondering what are iranians doing?
< mohi> acathur: as i remembered you used to mess around bitcoin sometimes.
< alolymous> mohi: what do you know about bitcoin? tell me.
< acathur> mohi: yup
< mohi> alolymous: iranians are in their historical dizziness! enjoying their deep sleep!
< mohi> alolymous: mate! take it off me then push it in acathur's!
< alolymous> the whole world revolts from new york to egypt and iranians sleep
< acathur> people just don't know/care about it yet. i found about it in the middle of wikileaks news
< alolymous> imagine now in iran, where it can be used for buying goods from the USA or sending money to/from Iran quickly/easily/cheapy to anywhere in the world
< alolymous> and the enormous potential for positive social good.
< acathur> or imagine governments fighting with BTC?
< alolymous> it is the first time in history that we have a monetary system without the intrusion of middlemen and corruption. the system is totally pure with a strong privacy model.
< alolymous> acathur: you mean like how they tried and failed with bittorrent?
< alolymous> fuck, i really want to do this just to give 2 fingers to the retarded sanctions
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< acathur> thanks alolymous. even if it's still of no use in iran
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< alolymous> why would a currency that allows economic freedom be less useful in an unfree country than in the UK?
< acathur> it really is useful, but no one uses it here. as you can see.
< alolymous> mohi: do you want to test it out? all i need is for you to register an iranian limited company, then open a business bank account. once a week you send me a list of bank deposits, and i give you a list of withdrawals.
< alolymous> it really is minimal effort on your part, but i need somebody in iran i can totally trust.
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< moha> alolymous: let me some days buddy ;-) Im too much busy on these days and i think i should be ok in next tw weeks
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< alolymous> meh

[MysteryMiner]

The Iranian government is evil and batshit insane.

Western propaganda. Iran did not invade any country. USA invaded dozens. And Israel is not legitimate state at all. Who is insane?

I can almost see them adopting and promoting bitcoin just to hurt the western worlds governments. In this case the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

It's unlikely to happen, but Iran might support gold as a payment medium. This will have almost the same effect on western economics that is bouilt upon scam scheme also known as fractional reserve banking.

the average iranian citizens that are no doubt being economically, in addition to politically, oppressed by their regime.

How can people who live in one of the wealthiest countries in region be economically opressed? Iran builds planes, cars, all other stuff they need. In contrast my country is one of the most democratic ones in europe, but in last 20 years we lost almost 400 000 of our little more than 2 million people because of capitalism and free market, that brings us unemployment and social injustice. I'm very savvy in computers, but I'm patriotic and nationalist who preferes to live in my country and go day by day as a black hat, than work as an alien worker in some large corporation in western europe. Speaking about political opression, in Iran You are politically opressed only if you are western capitalist, liberal, spy or homosexual. In my country the opposite is true.

Agreed.  There is exactly one country that has a legitimate and justifiable need for a handful of nuclear weapons, and that country is Iran.  It is a responsibility they have to their citizens else their country is almost certain to end up in the same miserable condition as Iraq.

Surprisingly true words. I only hope that Iran will get the nukes fast enough and the great leaders will have the courage to use them when necessary!

[pointbiz]

But I think the people who could truly benefit from bitcoin in iran, are not their government or central bankers, but, like in the rest of the world, the average iranian citizens that are no doubt being economically, in addition to politically, oppressed by their regime.

+1

[zer0]

Although it says you can't use a Canadian/UK bank to send money to Iran anymore, it doesn't say anything about walking into Z-Transfer this place in Toronto's Little Iran and handing over cash, then somebody in Turkey sends the bank xfer 5 mins later, or arranges cash collection anywhere in Iran. Was biz as usual there today along with Anelik storefronts and other wire transfer places that middlemen through Russia or Singapore

[FlipPro]

NO FUCKING THANKS.

THINK APPS PEOPLE, APPS...

If not this shit WILL fail simply on it's merits.

FFS - They have openly stated that they want to eradicate Isreal and essentially start the holy war (World War 3).

I could essentially go on for atleast 10 pages on crazy shit they have said, and are now acting on!

ARE WE THIS DESPERATE?

EDIT: I read that conversation and I have no problem with individuals in Iran using Bitcoin to overthrow their oppressive regime. I think that's what the majority of Iranians in that country want anyways. But an active
"Iran promo" campaign is a bad idea, and only brings more negative press that Bitcoin is trying to shake off right now. Let people find their own uses to Bitcoin through easy to use apps/services .

[MysteryMiner]

They have openly stated that they want to eradicate Isreal and essentially start the holy war (World War 3).

If they attack israel, I will volunteer to Iranian army. I also want to see that nest of evil zionism destroyed. If the western minions of jewish israel will not intervene, there will be no WW3 and the liberation of Palestine from zionists will be fast and not more deadly than Korea war.

[FlipPro]

They have openly stated that they want to eradicate Isreal and essentially start the holy war (World War 3).

If they attack israel, I will volunteer to Iranian army. I also want to see that nest of evil zionism destroyed. If the western minions of jewish israel will not intervene, there will be no WW3 and the liberation of Palestine from zionists will be fast and not more deadly than Korea war.

You know that's not going to happen. If Iran even tries to nuke Isreal they will be obliterated.

The sad part is, I really think they are crazy enough to do it. That will start an evil chain reaction, and then starts the "holy war". Is that what you really want?

Death and destruction for all humanity?

I believe most of the youth in Iran want the very same things all of us in this forum want. Freedom, decent living conditions for their loved ones, and a shot at a brighter future. It's their nut job politicians and Imams that are fucking shit up for the rest of the world. And also poor sympathizers like yourself who simply don't have all their facts right.

IF there are any Iranians reading this message. You can change this.

[MysteryMiner]

They have openly stated that they want to eradicate Isreal and essentially start the holy war (World War 3).

If they attack israel, I will volunteer to Iranian army. I also want to see that nest of evil zionism destroyed. If the western minions of jewish israel will not intervene, there will be no WW3 and the liberation of Palestine from zionists will be fast and not more deadly than Korea war.

You know that's not going to happen. If Iran even tries to nuke Isreal they will be obliterated.

The sad part is, I really think they are crazy enough to do it. That will start an evil chain reaction, and then starts the "holy war". Is that what you really want?

Death and destruction for all humanity?

I think Iranian leaders are brave and selfless enough to do that. If the jews and iluminati does not rule over the world, there will be no chain reaction. But even such possibility should not stop the restoration of justice and punishment (death penalty) for israel and jews.

There will be no destruction of all humanity. The danger of nuclear weapons are greatly exaggerated. In cold war both americans and soviets used enemy nukes to frighten the population and have the minds of people against capitalism/communism. In reality there is hundreds of nukes gone off in USA, and You are still living fine. In real war there will be maximum under 100 nuclear explosions, with less total yield than from all nuclear testings together. And modern nuclear weapons are more eco-fiendly, since they are more effective in using nuclear material than first generations of nukes.

[owowo]

Well, thanks for getting us on the radar. All of us are probably on some US terrorist watch list now.

If they will criminalize Bitcoin, they will argue with terrorist-funding anyway,.. I bet 21,000,001 BTC on that  

[FlipPro]

They have openly stated that they want to eradicate Isreal and essentially start the holy war (World War 3).

If they attack israel, I will volunteer to Iranian army. I also want to see that nest of evil zionism destroyed. If the western minions of jewish israel will not intervene, there will be no WW3 and the liberation of Palestine from zionists will be fast and not more deadly than Korea war.

You know that's not going to happen. If Iran even tries to nuke Isreal they will be obliterated.

The sad part is, I really think they are crazy enough to do it. That will start an evil chain reaction, and then starts the "holy war". Is that what you really want?

Death and destruction for all humanity?

I think Iranian leaders are brave and selfless enough to do that. If the jews and iluminati does not rule over the world, there will be no chain reaction. But even such possibility should not stop the restoration of justice and punishment (death penalty) for israel and jews.

There will be no destruction of all humanity. The danger of nuclear weapons are greatly exaggerated. In cold war both americans and soviets used enemy nukes to frighten the population and have the minds of people against capitalism/communism. In reality there is hundreds of nukes gone off in USA, and You are still living fine. In real war there will be maximum under 100 nuclear explosions, with less total yield than from all nuclear testings together. And modern nuclear weapons are more eco-fiendly, since they are more effective in using nuclear material than first generations of nukes.

I think Iranian leaders are brave and selfless enough to do that. If the jews and iluminati does not rule over the world, there will be no chain reaction. But even such possibility should not stop the restoration of justice and punishment (death penalty) for israel and jews.
Ok we get it, you hate Isreal and all Jews. I think your ideology is pretty disgusting considering that the most evil man this planet has ever seen tried to eradicate them from the face of the earth, not to long ago... But let me guess, you don't think that ever happened do you? 

There will be no destruction of all humanity. The danger of nuclear weapons are greatly exaggerated. In cold war both americans and soviets used enemy nukes to frighten the population and have the minds of people against capitalism/communism. In reality there is hundreds of nukes gone off in USA, and You are still living fine. In real war there will be maximum under 100 nuclear explosions, with less total yield than from all nuclear testings together. And modern nuclear weapons are more eco-fiendly, since they are more effective in using nuclear material than first generations of nukes.


You are officially a lunatic. "Modern nuclear weapons are more eco-friendly". Let me spill out a few facts for you, and hopefully you can comprehend them, and become a better person because of them.

FACT 1: NO MODERN NUCLEAR WEAPON IS "ECO-FRIENDLY"
FACT 2: IRAN by all indications is actively pursing a nuclear bomb.
FACT 3: IF IRAN GETS A NUCLEAR BOMB, THEIR LEADERS ARE CRAZY ENOUGH TO USE IT.
FACT 4: IF IRAN EVEN TRY'S TO NUKE ISREAL THEY WILL BE OBLITERATED BY THE "WEST" EFFECTIVELY JUMP STARTING WW3.

It will start and end just as fast as pulling up a webpage, because of the power and speed of your "eco-friendly nukes"

Btw this is in the wrong section, belongs in Politics / Society...

[owowo]

I think Iranian leaders are brave and selfless enough to do that. If the jews and iluminati does not rule over the world, there will be no chain reaction. But even such possibility should not stop the restoration of justice and punishment (death penalty) for israel and jews.

There will be no destruction of all humanity. The danger of nuclear weapons are greatly exaggerated. In cold war both americans and soviets used enemy nukes to frighten the population and have the minds of people against capitalism/communism. In reality there is hundreds of nukes gone off in USA, and You are still living fine. In real war there will be maximum under 100 nuclear explosions, with less total yield than from all nuclear testings together. And modern nuclear weapons are more eco-fiendly, since they are more effective in using nuclear material than first generations of nukes.

Here u go, one virgin
http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/66500/Britney-Spears-in-a-Tin-Foil-Hat-66733.jpg
71 to come..

[amincd]

The sad part is, I really think they are crazy enough to do it. That will start an evil chain reaction, and then starts the "holy war". Is that what you really want?

Iran is NOT going to start a nuclear war. They're highly rational and risk-averse. They're not going to commit mass-suicide/murder in a nuclear attack.

They have a military budget of $9 billion, or 1/80th that of the US. The US recently purchased 20 bunker buster bombs from Boeing for $314 million. In other words, one order of US bombs costs more than 3% of Iran's annual military budget.

Even if Iran acquired a nuclear weapon, it would be a primitive one, with a yield on the order of magnitude of "Little Boy". A study by the Center for Strategic and International Studies concluded that IF Iran acquired thirty nuclear bombs, and had a nuclear exchange with Israel, it would be destroyed beyond the point of recovery, and would lose 16-28 million people, while Israel would lose 500,000 and could survive:

US report: Israel would weather nuclear war with Iran

And this assumes Iran will get 30 bombs, which is completely unrealistic, given the level of international scrutiny it's under. Iran's Supreme Leader has even issued a fatwa against nuclear weapons, yet this war propaganda continues, and people continue to buy into it.

For thirty years, an Iranian nuclear bomb has been imminent:

Imminent Iran nuclear threat? A timeline of warnings since 1979.

1992: Israeli parliamentarian Benjamin Netanyahu tells his colleagues that Iran is 3 to 5 years from being able to produce a nuclear weapon – and that the threat had to be "uprooted by an international front headed by the US."

1992: Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres tells French TV that Iran was set to have nuclear warheads by 1999. "Iran is the greatest threat and greatest problem in the Middle East," Peres warned, "because it seeks the nuclear option while holding a highly dangerous stance of extreme religious militanCY."

***

1995: The New York Times conveys the fears of senior US and Israeli officials that "Iran is much closer to producing nuclear weapons than previously thought" – about five years away – and that Iran’s nuclear bomb is “at the top of the list” of dangers in the coming decade. The report speaks of an "acceleration of the Iranian nuclear program," claims that Iran "began an intensive campaign to develop and acquire nuclear weapons" in 1987, and says Iran was "believed" to have recruited scientists from the former Soviet Union and Pakistan to advise them.

1997: The Christian Science Monitor reports that US pressure on Iran's nuclear suppliers had "forced Iran to adjust its suspected timetable for a bomb. Experts now say Iran is unlikely to acquire nuclear weapons for eight or 10 years."

[FlipPro]

The sad part is, I really think they are crazy enough to do it. That will start an evil chain reaction, and then starts the "holy war". Is that what you really want?

Iran is NOT going to start a nuclear war. They're highly rational and risk-averse. They're not going to commit mass-suicide/murder in a nuclear attack.

They have a military budget of $9 billion, or 1/80th that of the US. The US recently purchased 20 bunker buster bombs for $300 million. In other words, one order of US bombs costs more than 3% of Iran's annual military budget.

Even if Iran acquired a nuclear weapon, it would be a primitive one, with a yield on the order of magnitude of "Little Boy". A study by the Center for Strategic and International Studies concluded that IF Iran acquired over thirty nuclear bombs, and had a nuclear exchange with Israel, it would be destroyed beyond the point of recovery, and would lose 16-28 million people, while Israel would lose 500,000 and could survive:

US report: Israel would weather nuclear war with Iran

And this assumes Iran will get 30 bombs, which is completely unrealistic, given the level of international scrutiny it's under. Iran's Supreme Leader has even issued a fatwa against nuclear weapons, yet this war propaganda continues, and people continue to buy into it.

For thirty years, a Iranian nuclear bomb has been imminent:

Imminent Iran nuclear threat? A timeline of warnings since 1979.

1992: Israeli parliamentarian Benjamin Netanyahu tells his colleagues that Iran is 3 to 5 years from being able to produce a nuclear weapon – and that the threat had to be "uprooted by an international front headed by the US."

1992: Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres tells French TV that Iran was set to have nuclear warheads by 1999. "Iran is the greatest threat and greatest problem in the Middle East," Peres warned, "because it seeks the nuclear option while holding a highly dangerous stance of extreme religious militanCY."

***

1995: The New York Times conveys the fears of senior US and Israeli officials that "Iran is much closer to producing nuclear weapons than previously thought" – about five years away – and that Iran’s nuclear bomb is “at the top of the list” of dangers in the coming decade. The report speaks of an "acceleration of the Iranian nuclear program," claims that Iran "began an intensive campaign to develop and acquire nuclear weapons" in 1987, and says Iran was "believed" to have recruited scientists from the former Soviet Union and Pakistan to advise them.

1997: The Christian Science Monitor reports that US pressure on Iran's nuclear suppliers had "forced Iran to adjust its suspected timetable for a bomb. Experts now say Iran is unlikely to acquire nuclear weapons for eight or 10 years."

If they even *TRY* to nuke Isreal they will be obliterated. They are close to *trying*...

I never said they would succeed...

[amincd]

Woosh..

[FlipPro]

Woosh..

How do you think Russia and other strategic partners to Iran react to Tehran burning in flames at the hands of the "wicked west"?

[tvbcof]

The sad part is, I really think they are crazy enough to do it. That will start an evil chain reaction, and then starts the "holy war". Is that what you really want?

Iran is NOT going to start a nuclear war. They're highly rational and risk-averse. They're not going to commit mass-suicide/murder in a nuclear attack.
...
And this assumes Iran will get 30 bombs, which is completely unrealistic, given the level of international scrutiny it's under. Iran's Supreme Leader has even issued a fatwa against nuclear weapons, yet this war propaganda continues, and people continue to buy into it.
...

Here's one person who's not buying that crap.  I personally never bought all the BS about Saddam and his WMD's, but even after that people still listen to the propaganda?  Amazing really.  In spite of all the garbage fed to use constantly by the mainstream media, I've not seen one sign that Iran has anything but a defensive posture and want's simply to be left alone.  But they also want to retain their Khuzestan region and have a history of fighting effectively when attacked.

I have little doubt that the political leadership in Washington would rather lose DC than see Tel Aviv harmed, and would rather lose 100,000 trailer-trash American grunts than 5000 of God's Chosen people if they had to make a choice.  So Iran's best chance is to make a credible threat to badly harm Israel.  I'm not saying it is a 'good' thing to do...just the most tenable defense against a clear and present danger and one which, with luck, means that an attack never comes and nobody needs to die in any country.

[bitcon]

< alolymous> SterNiX: Short version of what bitcoin is: it is a currency, but an entirely new kind of currency that can’t be seized or frozen by governments

not seized or frozen by govt, most likeley seized and frozen by the exchanges who have to comply with govt law.

[meanig]

Another country in need of Bitcoin is Iceland.

http://www.voxeu.org/index.php?q=node/7275

Capital controls are exactly wrong for Iceland

Icelandic firms seeking to invest abroad need rarely-granted permission from the Central Bank. Icelandic citizens need a government authorisation for foreign travel, since a Central Bank licence is needed to get tightly rationed foreign currency for travel. Any individual seeking to emigrate from Iceland is at least partially locked in by the capital controls by virtue of not being able to transfer his or her assets abroad, a restriction on emigration not commonly seen in democracies. This disregard of individuals’ civil rights as a result of the capital controls violates Iceland’s legal commitments under the European four freedoms.

The article says the controls have been in place since 2008 but this is the first I've read about them. Any Icelanders care to elaborate on how difficult it is to leave the country with cash?

[memvola]

It's unlikely to happen, but Iran might support gold as a payment medium. This will have almost the same effect on western economics that is bouilt upon scam scheme also known as fractional reserve banking.

FWIW, Gaddafi was planning to do that.

The sad part is, I really think they are crazy enough to do it. That will start an evil chain reaction, and then starts the "holy war". Is that what you really want?

Iran is NOT going to start a nuclear war. They're highly rational and risk-averse. They're not going to commit mass-suicide/murder in a nuclear attack.
...
And this assumes Iran will get 30 bombs, which is completely unrealistic, given the level of international scrutiny it's under. Iran's Supreme Leader has even issued a fatwa against nuclear weapons, yet this war propaganda continues, and people continue to buy into it.
...

Here's one person who's not buying that crap.  I personally never bought all the BS about Saddam and his WMD's, but even after that people still listen to the propaganda?  Amazing really.  In spite of all the garbage fed to use constantly by the mainstream media, I've not seen one sign that Iran has anything but a defensive posture and want's simply to be left alone.  But they also want to retain their Khuzestan region and have a history of fighting effectively when attacked.

I have little doubt that the political leadership in Washington would rather lose DC than see Tel Aviv harmed, and would rather lose 100,000 trailer-trash American grunts than 5000 of God's Chosen people if they had to make a choice.  So Iran's best chance is to make a credible threat to badly harm Israel.  I'm not saying it is a 'good' thing to do...just the most tenable defense against a clear and present danger and one which, with luck, means that an attack never comes and nobody needs to die in any country.

+1

Islamic Republic of Iran never started wars, and probably never will. Their threats are a political strategy towards their own subjects, which they pretty much have to exercise to retain power. USA and Israel are very easy targets because of their track records, and every government in the region use them to gain public sympathy once in a while. The public despises those countries for mostly legitimate reasons, but also because of penis envy. So if anything, Iran might be attacked or else provoked to go to war, possibly with a neighboring country, and it's almost unimaginable that they might use any weapon of mass destruction. Iraq used them against Iran over and over again and they never responded. Why do you think is that? And why did USA lie about it during the war?

On the other hand, IMHO it's very unrealistic to imagine any State to support Bitcoin. They might overlook its usage, but I don't think they would in Iran's case. Maybe someone from the region might share some insight about this? Can Bitcoin replace international wire transfers for countries like Iran? How would exchanges operate?

[tvbcof]

+1

Islamic Republic of Iran never started wars, and probably never will. Their threats are a political strategy towards their own subjects, which they pretty much have to exercise to retain power. USA and Israel are very easy targets because of their track records, and every government in the region use them to gain public sympathy once in a while. The public despises those countries for mostly legitimate reasons, but also because of penis envy. So if anything, Iran might be attacked or else provoked to go to war, possibly with a neighboring country, and it's almost unimaginable that they might use any weapon of mass destruction. Iraq used them against Iran over and over again and they never
responded. Why do you think is that? And why did USA lie about it during the war?

As I understand things, the US saw that Iraq was going to lose the war to Iran and suggested chemical weapons.  They also sent 'agricultural' helicopters and survey teams to gather data from the little lab experiment (Rumsfeld didn't want to let that opportunity go to waste.)

But I understand that Iran did indeed also use chemical weapons after being attacked with them.

In the end, Iran was much more creative and simply better at it and won the war although they took huge losses.

On the other hand, IMHO it's very unrealistic to imagine any State to support Bitcoin. They might overlook its usage, but I don't think they would in Iran's case. Maybe someone from the region might share some insight about this? Can Bitcoin replace international wire transfers for countries like Iran? How would exchanges operate?

I cannot imagine any country officially sanctioning Bitcoin.  Hoping for that seems to me like a total pipe dream and waste of time to me, and probably genuinely damaging to the potential that the system has.

[pointbiz]

I don't think it's realistic that Iran would use a nuclear weapon, especially not against Israel. If they attack Israel that will harm Palestinians, Lebanese and there will be radiation in Iran because of the proximity. Not to mention Jerusalem is the third holiest city in Islam. Plus the Fatwa against it, plus there not being any verse twist-able to justify that. The person who has his fingers on the red button in Iran, The Ayatollah, has zero incentive to launch one. He's living in a walled garden.

They are playing the same WMD card against Iran as they did against Iraq. And they don't worry at all about Pakistan?!?

Besides, America and Israel are already engaging Iran covertly. Remember the car bombs against Iranian nuclear scientists? Who do you think pulled that off? Osama? Saddam loyalists?

[ALPHA.]

America incited any violence on Iran's part. If they are going to blow us up, it's our own damn fault. The best thing we can do for our national security and lowering Iran as a threat -- nuclear or otherwise -- is leaving them the fuck alone.

However, a war is what they want and a war is what they are going to get, not from Iran and not from the American people, but the bankers. Wealth destruction on our end is more gold in the pockets of big banking interests. They control the money supply that funds this crap.

[notme]

America incited any violence on Iran's part. If they are going to blow us up, it's our own damn fault. The best thing we can do for our national security and lowering Iran as a threat -- nuclear or otherwise -- is leaving them the fuck alone.

However, a war is what they want and a war is what they are going to get, not from Iran and not from the American people, but the bankers. Wealth destruction on our end is more gold in the pockets of big banking interests. They control the money supply that funds this crap.

+1 War only helps the bankers get richer.  And we (America) need to fucking leave the rest of the world alone.  Unfortunately, before we can do that, we need to break our oil dependence.  Perhaps, though, just leaving and letting market forces break our dependence would work.  It would be painful short term, but I would rather stop creating America haters than continue to burn gasoline for transportation.  However, America runs on semi trucks, so until they adapt, the price of goods will go through the roof if gas spikes.

[genjix]

Iran's government is totally insane and universally hated within Iran. Nobody likes them.

However there are many conflicting forces within this corrupted government- it isn't a monolithic dictatorship. There is even limited dissent which has been continually pushing successfully over the last decades inch by inch to reform the country.

Going to war with Iran would be extremely bad. It would rally people around a hated, deeply unpopular and resented regime. I'm also skeptical about sanctions which is simply isolating and hurting Iranian people; the government is religious and doesn't give a shit about running the country to the ground in pursuit of their dogma.

For those interested in what day to day life in Iran is like, check my pictures:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/genjix/page10/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/genjix/page9/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/genjix/page8/

They are just normal people like you or me in the west. Before the religious people seized control during the power vacuum of the revolution (which was for democratic reform), Iran was a westernised secular country.



According to that map, Iran is less religious than Turkey or Poland. I'd harbour that the results are skewed from the repression even and that the results are much more favourable in private.

[notme]

Lol at "Iranian navy performing maneuvers" (page 9)

[RodeoX]

All opinion aside, doing most business transactions with Iranian citizens would be illegal for U.S. citizens. 

[GideonGono]

MysteryMiner & Flippro - Mirror images of insanity.

[hazek]

Iran’s dire straits

Well I hope this does take off somehow, would be really cool to see!

[predic]

enemies of Iran are enemies of Bitcoin. why? because they repeat colonialist propaganda, they are spies. those who are paid by government, they repeat phrases of government. what spies are doing here if not spying of bitcoin development and its community  

of course, Iran should develop "illegal" (anonymous) ways of money transactions and functioning of industry. In the time of sanctions, all products will be available only in black market and Iran should secure that the state control black market and not individuals who could misuse situation to become rich. money from the trade should finish in budget and not in pockets of individuals. in the time of sanctions 1993 in Serbia, everything what was imported (illegal over the border with Romania), it finished in black market (benzine, cigarettes, food, etc). Serbia has 7 million people and Iran has 10 times more, so, Iran must organize and be ready for sanctions. I wish them the best and I hope they will succeed to protect themselves from colonialists.

[foggyb]

They are just normal people like you or me in the west. Before the religious people seized control during the power vacuum of the revolution (which was for democratic reform), Iran was a westernised secular country.

According to that map, Iran is less religious than Turkey or Poland. I'd harbour that the results are skewed from the repression even and that the results are much more favourable in private.

I have a big problem with your premise. Millions of religious people DO NOT support dictatorships and oppressive rule.

So to pull out a map and label a bunch of countries in RELIGIOUS RED to point out who the oppressors are, insults my intelligence, and should everyone's. The one thing all oppressive regimes have in common is that they are oppressive power trippers.

[tvbcof]

They are just normal people like you or me in the west. Before the religious people seized control during the power vacuum of the revolution (which was for democratic reform), Iran was a westernised secular country.

According to that map, Iran is less religious than Turkey or Poland. I'd harbour that the results are skewed from the repression even and that the results are much more favourable in private.

I have a big problem with your premise. Millions of religious people DO NOT support dictatorships and oppressive rule.

So to pull out a map and label a bunch of countries in RELIGIOUS RED to point out who the oppressors are, insults my intelligence, and should everyone's. The one thing all oppressive regimes have in common is that they are oppressive power trippers.

I think that it is fair to equate religious extremism to general backwardness and retardation in other areas.  Also to assume that if a relatively high percentage of the population places a high importance in religion, there is a good chance that extremism is alive an well (and again, correlated with general backwardness.)

I took Genjix's map, and a lot of other evidence I'm aware of, to be indicative of the fact that Iran is not a backward helpless basket-case who cannot defend themselves.  This is the 'party line' from the mainstream media and is designed to make Western populations comfortable attacking them.  I am betting that it will be a great folly and that many Joe Sixpacks will be shocked at what the event ends up producing.  One of the few good things that might come out of it is that the populations may start trusting the mainstream media so much.