UK severs ties with Iranian Banks

[meanig]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15823622

The UK has imposed new sanctions against Iran which will cut off all financial ties with Iranian banks.

From 1500 GMT on Monday, UK credit and financial institutions were required to cease all transactions with banks including the Central Bank of Iran.

Chancellor George Osborne said there was evidence that Iran's banks were funding its nuclear weapons programme

Iran needs an international decentralized payment system. Should we add this to our list of examples where Bitcoin could be useful?

[ALPHA.]

Well, thanks for getting us on the radar. All of us are probably on some US terrorist watch list now.

[MysteryMiner]

Bitcoins could help Iran, because in Iran there is no internation credit cards (no VISA, no Mastercard are allowed to operate in Iran), and do You remember that ALL accounts of iranian citizens were seized by PayPal and the funds was basically stolen. And after such actions there is surprise that Iran wants to get nuclear weapons, since both united kingdom and usa already have them. And USA shot down Iranian airliner with missle over sea, and USA supported the opressive regime of autoritarian dictator.

[evoorhees]

Well, thanks for getting us on the radar. All of us are probably on some US terrorist watch list now.

If you're a resident of Earth, you are on this list. Land of the free.

[Shuai]

I honestly think this is a great opportunity.

The Iranian government is evil and batshit insane. I can almost see them adopting and promoting bitcoin just to hurt the western worlds governments. In this case the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

But I think the people who could truly benefit from bitcoin in iran, are not their government or central bankers, but, like in the rest of the world, the average iranian citizens that are no doubt being economically, in addition to politically, oppressed by their regime.

[tvbcof]

Bitcoins could help Iran, because in Iran there is no internation credit cards (no VISA, no Mastercard are allowed to operate in Iran), and do You remember that ALL accounts of iranian citizens were seized by PayPal and the funds was basically stolen. And after such actions there is surprise that Iran wants to get nuclear weapons, since both united kingdom and usa already have them. And USA shot down Iranian airliner with missle over sea, and USA supported the opressive regime of autoritarian dictator.

Agreed.  There is exactly one country that has a legitimate and justifiable need for a handful of nuclear weapons, and that country is Iran.  It is a responsibility they have to their citizens else their country is almost certain to end up in the same miserable condition as Iraq.

It is in my interest (as an American and resident of Earth) that Iran gets nukes and delivery systems if they do not already in order to prevent an American attack (along with our normal pack of lackeys.)  That would probably be a hand on China's jugular that, for the life of their country, they could not tolerate and very well could spell WW-III.  Even if not, a marginal amount of support (like we gave the mujaheddin against the USSR) could very well end up in a painful and costly rout from the peripheries of our current empire.

[wareen]

Actually this is something where I think it's great that Bitcoin is not valued any higher.

Why? Because in its current state, Bitcoin can help mitigate the impact for normal people who just want to send some money to their families but have a hard time doing so because of banking embargoes. At the same time, it is utterly useless when it comes to bigger transfers for the government or the military.

Of course, with the level of Iran's Internet censorship, deep packet inspection and whatnot, it might not be very easy/safe to use Bitcoin there.

[tvbcof]

Actually this is something where I think it's great that Bitcoin is not valued any higher.

Why? Because in its current state, Bitcoin can help mitigate the impact for normal people who just want to send some money to their families but have a hard time doing so because of banking embargoes. At the same time, it is utterly useless when it comes to bigger transfers for the government or the military.

Of course, with the level of Iran's Internet censorship, deep packet inspection and whatnot, it might not be very easy/safe to use Bitcoin there.

One does not have to 'use' Bitcoin 'in' a particular locale if doing so is risky.  That is one of the more stunning beauties of Bitcoin (to me.)  But it is probably the case that using it from at an offshore locale in a secure way takes more technical skill than a lot of people might have.

[joepie91]

Forwarded from irc:

--- Log opened Mon Oct 31 18:58:37 2011
-!- Irssi: #technotux: Total of 28 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 27 normal]
-!- Irssi: Join to #technotux was synced in 0 secs
< alolymous> hey
< SterNiX> hi
< alolymous> bebakshid, farsi-am khob harf nemizanam. inglis bebinam
< alolymous> so have any of you heard of bitcoin?
< SterNiX> i have heard of its name alolymous
-!- ArmanHayeEmam is now known as NamirolMomenin
< alolymous> what do you know about it?
< alolymous> is there anyone here from isfahan lug?
-!- NamirolMomenin [~hidensoft@unaffiliated/hidensoft] has left #technotux ["Leaving"]
< SterNiX> not at the mo alolymous
< SterNiX> theyre a couple that i know of
< SterNiX> there could be more, but i only know of 2
< alolymous> ok so i work with bitcoin
< SterNiX> aha nice to meet u
< alolymous> my father is from iran, and i have spent time in iran in the past
< alolymous> and this project has something to offer to iran i think
< alolymous> however it's complicated
< alolymous> as the project uses vast amounts of cryptography and networking concepts
< alolymous> does mohi still participate in ubuntu/linuxshop.ir?
< SterNiX> i got an email form linuxshop.ir
< SterNiX> and i think he does
-!- maour [~maour@unaffiliated/maour] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
< alolymous> http://arioslinux.org/ haha cute
-!- maour [~maour@unaffiliated/maour] has joined #technotux
< alolymous> SterNiX: Short version of what bitcoin is: it is a currency, but an entirely new kind of currency that can’t be seized or frozen by governments, one which is integrated with its transaction system where transaction fees are optional, and where you can transfer any amount anywhere instantly without any authority knowing or interfering.
< alolymous> good article: http://falkvinge.net/2011/05/19/the-information-policy-case-for-flat-tax-and-basic-income/
< alolymous> i'm thinking that using bitcoin, iranians could pay for goods using paypal
< alolymous> and get around the US embargo
-!- miadbahrami [~miadbahra@178.131.221.6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
< alolymous> so would that be a useful thing for iranians? a way to buy paypal dollars using rial
< acathur> though getting some bitcoins is not easy imo at first place
< alolymous> acathur: you mean in iran?
< acathur> alolymous: no, i mean in general
< alolymous> from which country?
< acathur> iran
< alolymous> USA/Europe/UK it's pretty easy
< alolymous> yeah hence an iranian exchange
< alolymous> imagine people could easily trade goods around online with the rest of the world without having restrictions on how they spend their money
< alolymous> transferring money in and out of iran is near impossible.
< alolymous> but with bitcoins it'd be really easy.
< alolymous> it would even be possible to order goods from the USA to Iran
< acathur> by getting bitcoins i meant having some bitcoins for payment
< acathur> mining bitcoins just isn't a good idea anymore afaik, so one would need to exchange them with dollars for example
< acathur> and that's the problem
< alolymous> it really isn't.
< alolymous> let me explain how a bitcoin exchange works
< alolymous> persons A, B, C want BTC for their IRR, persons X, Y, Z want IRR for their BTC
< alolymous> so the second group demands bitcoins and puts up a buy order of 100 IRR for 10 BTC
< alolymous> however there isn't much bitcoin available, so the first group only sells a tiny amount
< alolymous> 1 BTC for 10 IRR
< alolymous> that quickly gets bought up. but then A, B, C want bitcoins still eventhough there isn't any on the market
< alolymous> so they start to compete and place higher orders (demand goes up)
< alolymous> 99 IRR on the market
< alolymous> X, Y, Z decide to put up 6 BTC
< alolymous> therefore the market reaches a supply-demand equillibrium at 99 IRR = 6 BTC
< alolymous> now somebody sees the price is a lot higher on the UK exchange.
< alolymous> by buying GBP with their IRR, they can engage in arbitrage and make money
< alolymous> again the supply-demand relationship brings a market equillibrium
< alolymous> http://bitcoinwatch.com/
< alolymous> if you denominate the USD price in GBP then you'll see they're very similar because of arbitrage
< acathur> true. yet i couldn't find anyone who would exhange BTC for IRR or the other way. so i'd probably need to use a third currency in the middle, using the BTC -> USD -> IRR or the other way around
< alolymous> that's why i'm saying to make an exchange in iran
< alolymous> BTC -> IRR
< alolymous> then present it as a cheap/easy way to make payments to/from iran
< alolymous> since right now, it is impossible to send money to iran
< acathur> i like what you say too, but do you know anyone or anywhere to do that now? i need BTC and there's just no one who'd exchange for IRR
< alolymous> when i started out with bitcoin 1 year ago. i had no way to buy bitcoins
< alolymous> so i created the UK exchange
< alolymous> it's very easy now to get money in the UK
< acathur> (just asked mohi to join here)
< alolymous> ok cool. he knows me from a long time ago
-!- mohi [~mohi@31.56.0.43] has joined #technotux
-!- mohi [~mohi@31.56.0.43] has quit [Changing host]
-!- mohi [~mohi@unaffiliated/mohi] has joined #technotux
< alolymous> i was waiting to see why nothing was happening in iran
< alolymous> there is at least one iranian user: whois bitcoin.ir
< alolymous> registered with IRNIC (so inside iran)
< alolymous> and an address in Tehran
< alolymous> mohi: hey
< mohi> hey buddy!
< alolymous>
< mohi> wasup?
< alolymous> do you still run linuxshop.ir?
< alolymous> i saw you have ubuntu 11.10 on there
< mohi> ya
< mohi> not much time for it. there are some operators soing the stuff ;-)?
< mohi> doing*
< alolymous> what are you doing now you left the army?
-!- Shahrzad [~shahrzad@2.183.30.95] has joined #technotux
< mohi> just messing around ;-)
-!- miadbahrami [~miadbahra@178.131.221.6] has joined #technotux
< mohi> ya my military service has finished
< mohi> acathur: pinch you buddy
< alolymous> that's cool.
< mohi> alolymous: are still working on bitcoin?
< alolymous> yes
< mohi> alolymous: woohooo my famous friend ;-)
< alolymous> i was trying to message you a ton before because bitcoin is incredible
< mohi> wow nice
< mohi> i think acathur has something in common with you then on bitcoin!
< mohi> ping acathur
< alolymous> like i'm surprised why this takes off in a huge way in USA and UK
< alolymous> but not in Iran
< acathur> mohi: ?
< alolymous> in iran where something like this is needed more than anywhere else
< alolymous> and i was sitting there waiting. wondering what are iranians doing?
< mohi> acathur: as i remembered you used to mess around bitcoin sometimes.
< alolymous> mohi: what do you know about bitcoin? tell me.
< acathur> mohi: yup
< mohi> alolymous: iranians are in their historical dizziness! enjoying their deep sleep!
< mohi> alolymous: mate! take it off me then push it in acathur's!
< alolymous> the whole world revolts from new york to egypt and iranians sleep
< acathur> people just don't know/care about it yet. i found about it in the middle of wikileaks news
< alolymous> imagine now in iran, where it can be used for buying goods from the USA or sending money to/from Iran quickly/easily/cheapy to anywhere in the world
< alolymous> and the enormous potential for positive social good.
< acathur> or imagine governments fighting with BTC?
< alolymous> it is the first time in history that we have a monetary system without the intrusion of middlemen and corruption. the system is totally pure with a strong privacy model.
< alolymous> acathur: you mean like how they tried and failed with bittorrent?
< alolymous> fuck, i really want to do this just to give 2 fingers to the retarded sanctions
-!- Sefid_Par [~mo@78.38.176.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
< acathur> thanks alolymous. even if it's still of no use in iran
-!- Sefid_Par [~mo@78.38.176.2] has joined #technotux
< alolymous> why would a currency that allows economic freedom be less useful in an unfree country than in the UK?
< acathur> it really is useful, but no one uses it here. as you can see.
< alolymous> mohi: do you want to test it out? all i need is for you to register an iranian limited company, then open a business bank account. once a week you send me a list of bank deposits, and i give you a list of withdrawals.
< alolymous> it really is minimal effort on your part, but i need somebody in iran i can totally trust.
-!- moha [~mohi@31.56.36.100] has joined #technotux
-!- moha [~mohi@31.56.36.100] has quit [Changing host]
-!- moha [~mohi@unaffiliated/mohi] has joined #technotux
-!- mohi [~mohi@unaffiliated/mohi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
< moha> alolymous: let me some days buddy ;-) Im too much busy on these days and i think i should be ok in next tw weeks
-!- Sefid_Par [~mo@78.38.176.2] has quit [Quit: leaving]
< alolymous> meh

[MysteryMiner]

The Iranian government is evil and batshit insane.

Western propaganda. Iran did not invade any country. USA invaded dozens. And Israel is not legitimate state at all. Who is insane?

I can almost see them adopting and promoting bitcoin just to hurt the western worlds governments. In this case the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

It's unlikely to happen, but Iran might support gold as a payment medium. This will have almost the same effect on western economics that is bouilt upon scam scheme also known as fractional reserve banking.

the average iranian citizens that are no doubt being economically, in addition to politically, oppressed by their regime.

How can people who live in one of the wealthiest countries in region be economically opressed? Iran builds planes, cars, all other stuff they need. In contrast my country is one of the most democratic ones in europe, but in last 20 years we lost almost 400 000 of our little more than 2 million people because of capitalism and free market, that brings us unemployment and social injustice. I'm very savvy in computers, but I'm patriotic and nationalist who preferes to live in my country and go day by day as a black hat, than work as an alien worker in some large corporation in western europe. Speaking about political opression, in Iran You are politically opressed only if you are western capitalist, liberal, spy or homosexual. In my country the opposite is true.

Agreed.  There is exactly one country that has a legitimate and justifiable need for a handful of nuclear weapons, and that country is Iran.  It is a responsibility they have to their citizens else their country is almost certain to end up in the same miserable condition as Iraq.

Surprisingly true words. I only hope that Iran will get the nukes fast enough and the great leaders will have the courage to use them when necessary!

[pointbiz]

But I think the people who could truly benefit from bitcoin in iran, are not their government or central bankers, but, like in the rest of the world, the average iranian citizens that are no doubt being economically, in addition to politically, oppressed by their regime.

+1

[zer0]

Although it says you can't use a Canadian/UK bank to send money to Iran anymore, it doesn't say anything about walking into Z-Transfer this place in Toronto's Little Iran and handing over cash, then somebody in Turkey sends the bank xfer 5 mins later, or arranges cash collection anywhere in Iran. Was biz as usual there today along with Anelik storefronts and other wire transfer places that middlemen through Russia or Singapore

[FlipPro]

NO FUCKING THANKS.

THINK APPS PEOPLE, APPS...

If not this shit WILL fail simply on it's merits.

FFS - They have openly stated that they want to eradicate Isreal and essentially start the holy war (World War 3).

I could essentially go on for atleast 10 pages on crazy shit they have said, and are now acting on!

ARE WE THIS DESPERATE?

EDIT: I read that conversation and I have no problem with individuals in Iran using Bitcoin to overthrow their oppressive regime. I think that's what the majority of Iranians in that country want anyways. But an active
"Iran promo" campaign is a bad idea, and only brings more negative press that Bitcoin is trying to shake off right now. Let people find their own uses to Bitcoin through easy to use apps/services .

[MysteryMiner]

They have openly stated that they want to eradicate Isreal and essentially start the holy war (World War 3).

If they attack israel, I will volunteer to Iranian army. I also want to see that nest of evil zionism destroyed. If the western minions of jewish israel will not intervene, there will be no WW3 and the liberation of Palestine from zionists will be fast and not more deadly than Korea war.

[FlipPro]

They have openly stated that they want to eradicate Isreal and essentially start the holy war (World War 3).

If they attack israel, I will volunteer to Iranian army. I also want to see that nest of evil zionism destroyed. If the western minions of jewish israel will not intervene, there will be no WW3 and the liberation of Palestine from zionists will be fast and not more deadly than Korea war.

You know that's not going to happen. If Iran even tries to nuke Isreal they will be obliterated.

The sad part is, I really think they are crazy enough to do it. That will start an evil chain reaction, and then starts the "holy war". Is that what you really want?

Death and destruction for all humanity?

I believe most of the youth in Iran want the very same things all of us in this forum want. Freedom, decent living conditions for their loved ones, and a shot at a brighter future. It's their nut job politicians and Imams that are fucking shit up for the rest of the world. And also poor sympathizers like yourself who simply don't have all their facts right.

IF there are any Iranians reading this message. You can change this.

[MysteryMiner]

They have openly stated that they want to eradicate Isreal and essentially start the holy war (World War 3).

If they attack israel, I will volunteer to Iranian army. I also want to see that nest of evil zionism destroyed. If the western minions of jewish israel will not intervene, there will be no WW3 and the liberation of Palestine from zionists will be fast and not more deadly than Korea war.

You know that's not going to happen. If Iran even tries to nuke Isreal they will be obliterated.

The sad part is, I really think they are crazy enough to do it. That will start an evil chain reaction, and then starts the "holy war". Is that what you really want?

Death and destruction for all humanity?

I think Iranian leaders are brave and selfless enough to do that. If the jews and iluminati does not rule over the world, there will be no chain reaction. But even such possibility should not stop the restoration of justice and punishment (death penalty) for israel and jews.

There will be no destruction of all humanity. The danger of nuclear weapons are greatly exaggerated. In cold war both americans and soviets used enemy nukes to frighten the population and have the minds of people against capitalism/communism. In reality there is hundreds of nukes gone off in USA, and You are still living fine. In real war there will be maximum under 100 nuclear explosions, with less total yield than from all nuclear testings together. And modern nuclear weapons are more eco-fiendly, since they are more effective in using nuclear material than first generations of nukes.

[owowo]

Well, thanks for getting us on the radar. All of us are probably on some US terrorist watch list now.

If they will criminalize Bitcoin, they will argue with terrorist-funding anyway,.. I bet 21,000,001 BTC on that  

[FlipPro]

They have openly stated that they want to eradicate Isreal and essentially start the holy war (World War 3).

If they attack israel, I will volunteer to Iranian army. I also want to see that nest of evil zionism destroyed. If the western minions of jewish israel will not intervene, there will be no WW3 and the liberation of Palestine from zionists will be fast and not more deadly than Korea war.

You know that's not going to happen. If Iran even tries to nuke Isreal they will be obliterated.

The sad part is, I really think they are crazy enough to do it. That will start an evil chain reaction, and then starts the "holy war". Is that what you really want?

Death and destruction for all humanity?

I think Iranian leaders are brave and selfless enough to do that. If the jews and iluminati does not rule over the world, there will be no chain reaction. But even such possibility should not stop the restoration of justice and punishment (death penalty) for israel and jews.

There will be no destruction of all humanity. The danger of nuclear weapons are greatly exaggerated. In cold war both americans and soviets used enemy nukes to frighten the population and have the minds of people against capitalism/communism. In reality there is hundreds of nukes gone off in USA, and You are still living fine. In real war there will be maximum under 100 nuclear explosions, with less total yield than from all nuclear testings together. And modern nuclear weapons are more eco-fiendly, since they are more effective in using nuclear material than first generations of nukes.

I think Iranian leaders are brave and selfless enough to do that. If the jews and iluminati does not rule over the world, there will be no chain reaction. But even such possibility should not stop the restoration of justice and punishment (death penalty) for israel and jews.
Ok we get it, you hate Isreal and all Jews. I think your ideology is pretty disgusting considering that the most evil man this planet has ever seen tried to eradicate them from the face of the earth, not to long ago... But let me guess, you don't think that ever happened do you? 

There will be no destruction of all humanity. The danger of nuclear weapons are greatly exaggerated. In cold war both americans and soviets used enemy nukes to frighten the population and have the minds of people against capitalism/communism. In reality there is hundreds of nukes gone off in USA, and You are still living fine. In real war there will be maximum under 100 nuclear explosions, with less total yield than from all nuclear testings together. And modern nuclear weapons are more eco-fiendly, since they are more effective in using nuclear material than first generations of nukes.


You are officially a lunatic. "Modern nuclear weapons are more eco-friendly". Let me spill out a few facts for you, and hopefully you can comprehend them, and become a better person because of them.

FACT 1: NO MODERN NUCLEAR WEAPON IS "ECO-FRIENDLY"
FACT 2: IRAN by all indications is actively pursing a nuclear bomb.
FACT 3: IF IRAN GETS A NUCLEAR BOMB, THEIR LEADERS ARE CRAZY ENOUGH TO USE IT.
FACT 4: IF IRAN EVEN TRY'S TO NUKE ISREAL THEY WILL BE OBLITERATED BY THE "WEST" EFFECTIVELY JUMP STARTING WW3.

It will start and end just as fast as pulling up a webpage, because of the power and speed of your "eco-friendly nukes"

Btw this is in the wrong section, belongs in Politics / Society...

[owowo]

I think Iranian leaders are brave and selfless enough to do that. If the jews and iluminati does not rule over the world, there will be no chain reaction. But even such possibility should not stop the restoration of justice and punishment (death penalty) for israel and jews.

There will be no destruction of all humanity. The danger of nuclear weapons are greatly exaggerated. In cold war both americans and soviets used enemy nukes to frighten the population and have the minds of people against capitalism/communism. In reality there is hundreds of nukes gone off in USA, and You are still living fine. In real war there will be maximum under 100 nuclear explosions, with less total yield than from all nuclear testings together. And modern nuclear weapons are more eco-fiendly, since they are more effective in using nuclear material than first generations of nukes.

Here u go, one virgin
http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/66500/Britney-Spears-in-a-Tin-Foil-Hat-66733.jpg
71 to come..

[amincd]

The sad part is, I really think they are crazy enough to do it. That will start an evil chain reaction, and then starts the "holy war". Is that what you really want?

Iran is NOT going to start a nuclear war. They're highly rational and risk-averse. They're not going to commit mass-suicide/murder in a nuclear attack.

They have a military budget of $9 billion, or 1/80th that of the US. The US recently purchased 20 bunker buster bombs from Boeing for $314 million. In other words, one order of US bombs costs more than 3% of Iran's annual military budget.

Even if Iran acquired a nuclear weapon, it would be a primitive one, with a yield on the order of magnitude of "Little Boy". A study by the Center for Strategic and International Studies concluded that IF Iran acquired thirty nuclear bombs, and had a nuclear exchange with Israel, it would be destroyed beyond the point of recovery, and would lose 16-28 million people, while Israel would lose 500,000 and could survive:

US report: Israel would weather nuclear war with Iran

And this assumes Iran will get 30 bombs, which is completely unrealistic, given the level of international scrutiny it's under. Iran's Supreme Leader has even issued a fatwa against nuclear weapons, yet this war propaganda continues, and people continue to buy into it.

For thirty years, an Iranian nuclear bomb has been imminent:

Imminent Iran nuclear threat? A timeline of warnings since 1979.

1992: Israeli parliamentarian Benjamin Netanyahu tells his colleagues that Iran is 3 to 5 years from being able to produce a nuclear weapon – and that the threat had to be "uprooted by an international front headed by the US."

1992: Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres tells French TV that Iran was set to have nuclear warheads by 1999. "Iran is the greatest threat and greatest problem in the Middle East," Peres warned, "because it seeks the nuclear option while holding a highly dangerous stance of extreme religious militanCY."

***

1995: The New York Times conveys the fears of senior US and Israeli officials that "Iran is much closer to producing nuclear weapons than previously thought" – about five years away – and that Iran’s nuclear bomb is “at the top of the list” of dangers in the coming decade. The report speaks of an "acceleration of the Iranian nuclear program," claims that Iran "began an intensive campaign to develop and acquire nuclear weapons" in 1987, and says Iran was "believed" to have recruited scientists from the former Soviet Union and Pakistan to advise them.

1997: The Christian Science Monitor reports that US pressure on Iran's nuclear suppliers had "forced Iran to adjust its suspected timetable for a bomb. Experts now say Iran is unlikely to acquire nuclear weapons for eight or 10 years."