Taxes on Bitcoins: Unreasonable or essential?

[coolcoinz]

IMO all income taxes are unreasonable, but in case of Bitcoin there's so many ways it can be done that it's hard to say whether we should accept it otr not.
To give you an example, although I don't approve of taxation, I'd be able to accept it if it stayed below 20% and only concerned the income converted to fiat.
Taxing the coins that were never converted and are held in a wallet all the time is certainly unreasonable and unfair.

[Debonaire217]

I am no really aware that I pay taxes when using bitcoin especially if I am using my ledger for transactions. I just think that the only receiver of transaction fees are the miners and there's no other entities that will receive it. But in terms of buying items online, that makes me wonder how taxes are being managed by our government.

I am not sure if they utilize the taxes right when we converted fiats to bitcoin and vise versa, or they utilize it when we made transactions. Is that possible? Maybe through local exchange but I don't think they can deduct some amounts from every transaction as they need to access the bitcoin blockchain if I am not mistaken.

[DdmrDdmr]

In Spain, the time is ripe now to settle with Hacienda (the equivalent of the IRS) last year’s earnings, and yet there is no current exhaustive (considering all sort of scenarios) crystal clear set of taxation rules to apply. Nevertheless, the following explicit scenarios are depicted:
 
- People that have sold cryptocurrencies (liquidated them into FIAT).

- Exchange of one cryptocurrency for another.

- Mining.

- Additionally, and this is pretty wild, anyone in possession of cryptocurrencies should inform Hacienda, and declare the amounts they possess of each kind. This is of a (mandatory) informative nature, not subject to tax (I think there are some implications if the value is high though).

The tax percentage to apply on sale’s benefits, ranges between 19% and 23% (depending on the benefit quantity).

Having said that, my perception is that people will tend to mainly only come clear if they are "warned" by Hacienda: Over the last two years, Hacienda has been notifying targeted citizens that they must come clear with their taxes on crypto, since they "know" that they have operated with them. This is roughly the message that some people have being seeing when filling-in their yearly tax declaration. Still waiting for a common EU approach on this matter ...

[Haunebu]

I never paid any taxes related to crypto related transactions so far and it will most likely stay that way since my country doesn't really care about such stuff. They focus only on FIAT related taxes which I have paid regularly.

Majority of the world governments have a negative stance towards BTC and crypto in general which is why taxation on crypto is something that they don't bother with. This could change once they accept crypto and regulate it.

[amishmanish]

This is still a very evolving scenario and the question of taxes arises only when it is converted to Fiat. If you want to realize fiat profits like @LFC_Bitcoin and marry a hot woman from some exotic locale, you are taking stake out of bitcoin to put it into the Fiat system. It is only fair that you follow the applicable rules and pay taxes.

On the other hand, if you use your stash to start a business that uses bitcoin and you successfully generate economic activity out of it in terms of BTC as well as Fiat, then the BTC part should not be taxable. If people participating in a small P2P economy choose to use bitcoin, those products and services should not be taxable, having already been taxed when these were taken out of circulation from Fiat. This is a perfectly valid argument for Bitcoiners to deny taxes from their purely P2P economy. This may seem a little far-fetched now but if enough people have this same vision, it could someday become a possibility.

 Ironically, we need to take a leaf out of the communist manifesto but its apt to say, "Bitcoiners of the world, Unite!"

[Lucius]

Personally, it is not surprising to me that in some countries taxes are regulated when it comes to cryptocurrency, and in most other countries it is not or it is quite unclear how to pay taxes. But it would be quite unreasonable to expect governments to give up taxing the profits that come from crypto, although there are examples where this is exactly what happened.

In countries from OP there are certain regulations when it comes to such taxes, but this does not mean that you are completely exempt from paying crypto taxes. Although it is true that in Germany you do not have to pay profit tax if the crypto is sold 1+ year after purchase, on all profits over 600 EUR in the current year the tax must be paid. There is also a law in Croatia similar to Germany, which says that a person does not have to pay any tax if at least 2 years have passed from the day of purchase to the day of sale.

The key thing is that if you make a profit when converting crypto to fiat, and pay that same profit to a bank account, there is no legal basis not to pay taxes, unless it is specifically regulated by law.

[Natalim]

What I know is that crypto are regulated in our country but there is no fix guidelines yet on taxes on bitcoin, I just pay the income tax as a whole.
Seriously, why would we pay if we hold bitcoin, isn't it taxes are only required when we gain from using bitcoin? this is the part that I really want the government should clarify so people will not be mislead and they will do the proper remittance of taxes.

As of now, since there's no clear guideline, I can fully enjoy my earning in bitcoin without liability to the government.

[davis196]

Is it reasonable or government is just trying to make profit out of it ?

Governments aren't making profits out of taxes.All tax revenue goes for healthcare,education,law inforcement,army,administation,etc...
The people can't decide what a "reasonable tax percentage" is.It's normal for the people to want as low taxes as possible,but the people also want great healthcare and education systems,which costs money.
In the countries,where there's no particular cryptocurrency tax imposed,the people are still obligated to pay income tax for their cryptocurrency income.
Bottom line is:We can't avoid taxation by using cryptocurrencies.

[rodskee]

I guess I'm still lucky that the Philippines does necessitate its citizens to declare their crypto gains for tax purposes, but I'm sure exchanges based here are already doing their part to keep track of it should the need for taxation arise.

Maybe So far not yet but sooner for sure there will be if the increase of people happens to be gaining in Crypto specially
 Bitcoin in which the most popular cryptocurrency in Philippines so there
will always a chance that Government will start collecting data about how they can put taxes in this profiteering market,
Let us always remember that Taxation is our obligation being citizen and
 in every amount that we earn the government must take part so let us enjoy our freedom now as in future or maybe
sooner there will be including taxes.

[madhavsinghrajput]

Government have always been wary of Bitcoins as a whole. They are never ready to accept that cryptocurrencies have made a significant

Government should and they must as if taxes are not invoked than that will provoke people to do wrong things like making their black money white and all.But Yes reasonable tax rates should be applied. What i think government must implement tax system similar to the  stock market.As these are currency and what system is applied on  people who invest in dollar must be implemented on investment on crypto.

[ultrloa]

If you want to help the government just think that its essential since it could help them to get more funds for economical use but if you think you didn't want it to get implemented since you don't want any cut from your earnings then think about opposing it since this is really negative since we might gonna pay a huges taxes if they can see a good activities happening in this industry.

[gentlemand]

Why the hell should Bitcoin get a pass? Because it's 'special?'

Everyone and everything is special. I've seen people write 'I shouldn't pay any tax because I took a risk' or 'I shouldn't pay any tax because it's on the internet.'

No one else gives a shit about your tale of investing adventure. They pay tax on things they risked their arses on too, often MUCH more risk. You made a profit. Cough up.

Bitcoin in the UK is taxed like every other similar entity - foreign currency, stocks etc. It's dull but that's how I fully expect it to be. If you're lucky enough to live in a place where it's not taxed then good for you and I hope it lasts.

[Fundamentals Of]

You are making money out of Bitcoin or crypto, you need to pay up. That is your responsibility. That is essential from the point of view of the government. You have the right to argue against it though, especially if you cannot see where your taxes go. No healthcare program, no nice roads, no decent public transportation, etc are the main reasons why I hate paying taxes, whether from my Bitcoin or something else.

[tbterryboy]

The government don’t really care, all they need is for you to pay your taxes and nothing more. Some people who are into cryptocurrency are doing it as a way to evade paying their taxes which is illegal. In my country there are no laws yet to regulate cryptocurrency and there are not many people that are making use of Bitcoin and others.

In countries where it’s being regulated, it’s regarded as an asset or property and you will have to be paying taxes for it. And from what I have understood, you don’t pay the taxes when you’re buying Bitcoin, you only pay taxes when you’re selling or using it to buy something online. When we are dealing for bitcoins with fiats then it seems essential to pay taxes and if we make use of bitcoins in complete decentralized way then we may skip the tax part in individual's trade but for shopping using bitcoin kind of things will definitely incur taxes.

[Chris!]

Taxation is theft. End of discussion. You may lock the thread now.

[coolcoinz]

You are making money out of Bitcoin or crypto, you need to pay up. That is your responsibility.

Either this is your sense of humor or you were brainwashed to think you are responsible for the lavish livestyles of your politicians. I hope it's the former.

That is essential from the point of view of the government.

From the point of view of the butcher it's essential that pigs don't try to escape the pen and walk into the slaughterhouse one by one.

You have the right to argue against it though, especially if you cannot see where your taxes go.

Show me a situation where the taxpayer knows exactly where the money goes. I'd like to see such country.
We can only suspect where they're getting money to buy expensive cars, private jets, summer residences, political campaigns, and build war machines worth billions od dollars to later turn them into scrap when they become obsolete.

[20kevin20]

All the rich ones I know don't pay taxes, avoiding them one way or another and yes - legally. I am not against the law (I'm someone out there would've said that), but I think I've had enough of my taxes be used against me.

Our politicians are known to have off-shore accounts where they safely store their wealth without paying a single penny for taxes. So why tax some guy for buying $100 worth of BTC and selling it for $150 then? If someone considers they have to reward somebody for the money they've earned, then they should be free to give away money to the state or whoever else. But if the rich have the advantage and opportunity of knowing the right persons to teach them how to make moves not to pay taxes, then don't tax the poor who don't have the same opportunity.

[shield132]

In overall, some countries don't set taxes on bitcoin and argument is following (I asked this question to one person who works in Ministry of Finance): We don't admit bitcoin as a currency cause it's basically a file  and during mining, mining equipments solve complex computational math problems.
Idk if this sounds curious for you but another proposal was that let people earn some money without taxes, country in this case is - Georgia.

Personally I am against how governments set taxes on everything. Reality is following:
1. Company is registered and does some job = paying taxes. (100$) (rate 20%)
2. I get salary = paying taxes. (80$) (rate 20%)
3. I buy something from store = paying taxes. (price + 20%)

Triple taxation here. And sometimes you have to pay fee again when you sell something that you bought (3rd taxes from example + 4th taxes).
How fair is it? Taxes should be done on one thing, for example on my salary and once it's taxed, then I don't have to pay additional taxes on products from supermarket and etc, cause finally what's left is given above.

[suvo05]

All the rich ones I know don't pay taxes, avoiding them one way or another and yes - legally. I am not against the law (I'm someone out there would've said that), but I think I've had enough of my taxes be used against me.

Our politicians are known to have off-shore accounts where they safely store their wealth without paying a single penny for taxes. So why tax some guy for buying $100 worth of BTC and selling it for $150 then? If someone considers they have to reward somebody for the money they've earned, then they should be free to give away money to the state or whoever else. But if the rich have the advantage and opportunity of knowing the right persons to teach them how to make moves not to pay taxes, then don't tax the poor who don't have the same opportunity.

I think it is absolutely essential. We want bitcoin to be a globally accepted currency. Currently, many Gov still looks bitcoin as a threat to their countries economy a tax system on BTC will change the view of Gov regarding BTC. But the tax should not be too high to discourage people to use BTC.

In the poor countries only a handful of people holds major amount of money. If those people convert their money in BTC then the economy of the country highly affected.

[lumeire]

Government have always been wary of Bitcoins as a whole. They are never ready to accept that cryptocurrencies have made a significant improvement in the lives of many. Unfortunately if you search online about the taxation on Bitcoins , in many countries it's very unreasonable.

It's not a government owned platform.One might be aware of the fact that the government is tracking down people who owns Bitcoins. Taxes on cryptocurrencies are always a matter of debate , in a country like India 30-20% of the Tax is supposed to be paid by the handler who is using the cryptocurrencies like Bitcoins and earning more than a fixed number.

20-30% is not at all a reasonable tax price.

At the same time there are countries where taxation is not considered regarding the cryptocurrencies.

Portugal
Germany
Singapore
Malaysia
Belarus
Slovenia
Malta
Switzerland

(https://news.bitcoin.com/eight-countries-that-dont-tax-your-bitcoin-gains/)

What do guys think ?
Should the government place taxes on Bitcoins or should they let it be? Since they are not helping cryptocurrencies in any way, I do think they should stop making profits out of people. A reasonable tax percentage should be applied ofcourse, but it does not give them the right to label the cryptocurrencies as free money . They should understand that it's a serious issue and if some money is coming from cryptocurrencies, they should at least use 1% of it to educate people about cryptocurrencies.

How much is the taxation on Bitcoins in your country ? Is it reasonable or government is just trying to make profit out of it ?

Taxation on Bitcoins is essential for promoting Bitcoins and their use either as an investment or as a currency. As government holds an account of all the various amounts of tax collected from a sector and then they also give benefits to the people in those sectors depending upon the tax they collect. So if they collect huge taxes from bitcoins industry then they will most probably have more attention towards it which can be good for the future of Crypto itself.