Will CPU PoW coins have a future?

[Abiky]

For once, Bitcoin was touted as a cryptocurrency that can be mined with a CPU (one CPU, one vote). After FPGAs and GPUs came into inception, mining with a CPU became a thing of the past. It's disappointing to see this, considering that CPU brings greater decentralization to a Blockchain network. The average Joe can participate in the cryptocurrency's consensus, without having to spend a fortune on expensive mining hardware. Hundreds (if not thousands) of altcoins have emerged with the focus of being truly ASIC and GPU-resistant with unique CPU-friendly PoW algorithms. Yet after some time, mining hardware manufacturers launch devices that successfully mine CPU-only cryptocurrencies.

For now, some “yescrypt” and “M7M” coins are mineable only with a CPU. But there's nothing stopping companies from developing an ASIC or even an FPGA to mine them, reducing the average person's accessibility to mine coins in an underlying Blockchain network.

Do you think CPU coins will have a future? Or is everything "dead lost"? Your input will be greatly appreciated.

[JayDDee]

Yes. The newer algorithms are designed for POW. The're not off-the-shelf cryptographic algorithms.

[NeuroticFish]

Do you think CPU coins will have a future? Or is everything "dead lost"? Your input will be greatly appreciated.

It depends by what you mean "have a future".

Bitcoin has shown us that the more the mining actually costs (for industrial miners) the more the coin will be valuated on the free market (usually). And that's quite normal, since the miners are expected to be the big sellers.

Of course, a coin can be considered pretty successful (have a future) without being super expensive. The blockchain is stable, there are services built around the coin and so on.

Unfortunately there are 2 problems here:
1. In most people's mind success means money and this pretty much rules out CPU coins.
2. CPU coins have "low power" blockchains, meaning that there's always a risk that a script kiddie with a botnet behind himself may be able to ruin it.

[sech1]

For now, some “yescrypt” and “M7M” coins are mineable only with a CPU. But there's nothing stopping companies from developing an ASIC or even an FPGA to mine them, reducing the average person's accessibility to mine coins in an underlying Blockchain network.

Have you even heard of Monero? And RandomX algorithm?

[Metroid]

As long as there is demand then yes, there are thousands of dead coins.

[Apostlekin$$$]

For once, Bitcoin was touted as a cryptocurrency that can be mined with a CPU (one CPU, one vote). After FPGAs and GPUs came into inception, mining with a CPU became a thing of the past. It's disappointing to see this, considering that CPU brings greater decentralization to a Blockchain network. The average Joe can participate in the cryptocurrency's consensus, without having to spend a fortune on expensive mining hardware. Hundreds (if not thousands) of altcoins have emerged with the focus of being truly ASIC and GPU-resistant with unique CPU-friendly PoW algorithms. Yet after some time, mining hardware manufacturers launch devices that successfully mine CPU-only cryptocurrencies.

For now, some “yescrypt” and “M7M” coins are mineable only with a CPU. But there's nothing stopping companies from developing an ASIC or even an FPGA to mine them, reducing the average person's accessibility to mine coins in an underlying Blockchain network.

Do you think CPU coins will have a future? Or is everything "dead lost"? Your input will be greatly appreciated.

Mining with CPU haven't become a thing of the past, it's only a thing of the past for Bitcoin, we have many altcoins that are still minable with CPU, high difficulty rate of Bitcoin is what makes mining Bitcoin with CPU utterly useless

[Apostlekin$$$]

For example you can still mine Monero with CPU, infact it's latest algorithm works better with CPU than GPU, once mining difficulty rise too high for Monero in future, CPU mining can be obsolete for Monero, all we have to do is find another coin

[Eco_111]

Many CPU coins are dead since 2017 and I don't plan on going back to mining now since it's not worth it anymore, but I believe that CPU mining will always be alive, Algorithms have their differences like yescript, cryptonight v9, randomX, in the future there will be new CPU algorithms so CPU mining can't ever die.

[Abiky]

It depends by what you mean "have a future".

Bitcoin has shown us that the more the mining actually costs (for industrial miners) the more the coin will be valuated on the free market (usually). And that's quite normal, since the miners are expected to be the big sellers.

Of course, a coin can be considered pretty successful (have a future) without being super expensive. The blockchain is stable, there are services built around the coin and so on.

Unfortunately there are 2 problems here:
1. In most people's mind success means money and this pretty much rules out CPU coins.
2. CPU coins have "low power" blockchains, meaning that there's always a risk that a script kiddie with a botnet behind himself may be able to ruin it.

That's certainly true, mate. It's all about mainstream adoption than anything else. If CPU-based PoW cryptocurrencies are useful for the world, they'll have a bright future ahead of them. My guess is that actively developed CPU coins will constantly adapt their PoW algorithms to "stay ahead in the game". Consider Monero which has switched from the CryptoNight algorithm, to RandomX in order to strip ASIC miners from the system and allow CPUs to participate in the Blockchain's consensus. Every 6 months, the XMR dev team modifies the PoW algorithm in order to maintain decentralization and ASIC-resistance. I'd say that Monero is a CPU-based coin that has a bright future because of this.

Other smaller Blockchain networks with CPU-based PoW algorithms may not last for long if they don't provide active development and innovation. There are many good coins like Hodlcoin and Magi which turned out to be abandoned in development (AFAIK). People may be able to mine these coins easily with a CPU, but they won't be able to sell them anywhere due to low trading volume or market activity. Since most CPU coins have low network hashrate, they're much more susceptible to 51% attacks than others backed by ASICs and FPGAs. Like you said, there's the issue of "botnets" which greatly undermine the security of the underlying blockchain network. A great solution for this is to rely on a bigger chain like Bitcoin for added security (block notarization). Komodo's dPoW works this way and could give additional security to CPU-based PoW cryptocurrencies. I believe that Verus is a CPU-based cryptocurrency that's protected by dPoW, making 51% attacks a thing of the past. As with anything, demand is necessary for any crypto project to grow towards new heights. If people don't use CPU-based cryptocurrencies for their own benefit, I don't see them going anywhere. Just my thoughts

[rikuu]

Monero stated that this was going to be the last time they try to fight ASICs with a PoW change, and that if it doesn't work, they'd change it one last time to a friendly ASIC PoW

[togoshigekata]

"1) CPU mined coins do have a future, because the RandomX algorithm actually takes into account the clock cycles required to perform a task in the virtual machine on every possible device - therefore the general belief is its not going to ever be exploited by GPU or ASIC (as it is designed to run slower on those platforms).  Yes it might get replaced or upgraded some day, but bright minds do not see an attack vector.  (https://github.com/tevador/RandomX/issues/11)

2) There are over 100,000 randomx miners currently mining so its not true that a script kiddie can come in and take over the POW network. (65,000 on minexmr alone).

3) We have chainlocks, so in addition to RandomX there is a tiny fork risk because of our masternodes.

4) Its also not true that mining groups can take over RandomX because each machine runs the proprietary RX VM (virtual machine) and therefore you can't rent or steal or coerce new hashpower you simply have to have more miners.

5) BBP is fully compatible with RX so therefore we gain the security of the pool of RX miners as they discover merge mining."

Response from Founder and Lead Developer of BiblePay (BBP), Rob Andrews

Earn both BBP + XMR at same time! 190% mining revenue!

[MajorMiner]

There are some solid precedents and reasons why CPU PoW coins have a future.
For starters there are already success stories of CPU PoW coins in the top 20 - like Monero with its Random X switch last year. I've been with Monero since it was born/forked in 2014 and after all the GPU mining project finally went with RandomX as a last ditch to fight ASICs. So far RandomX been good and going strong.
My other project, Epic Cash, is a multi ago PoW with 60% of mined shares coming from Random X, 38% from GPU oriented ProgPow, and 2% from ASIC centric Cuckoo.
The reason we picked a three algo PoW cocktail is to accommodate the broadest group of potential miners possible. We are not going after career miners with Random X although we do have people with 10+ rigs dedicated to mining.
CPU Mining increasingly makes sense, because today's CPUs like Ryzen 3900x with their 12 cores and 24 threads are common in gaming rigs, along with decent video card or two, making this ideal for gamers who want to have a hand at mining.
They are also not beastly in terms of power consumption (couple hundred watts) and there are bigger versions like Ryzen 3950X with 16 cores and 32 threads all the way to the monstrous AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3990X 64-Core, 128-Thread! So this is scalable for beginners to pros. In terms of compactness they are also more manageable than the huge GPU farms.
The key for long lasting potential though, in my opinion is the potential for mainstream appeal - there is already infrastructure - people already got rigs and laptops with reasonably powerful CPUs and all they need is some crypto with enough potential for them to want to mine it.

[Gunday_07]

There are many new coins that was build with CPU Proof of Work in mind, maybe I should drop few Algorithms that works perfectly for CPU only

1. Cryptonight
2. Dcrypt
3. Bcrypt
4. X11
5. Wild keccack
6. Argon2d

There are still many more and these Algorithms has many coins using them, CPU mining is not left out, it will always be supported

[philipma1957]

There are some solid precedents and reasons why CPU PoW coins have a future.
For starters there are already success stories of CPU PoW coins in the top 20 - like Monero with its Random X switch last year. I've been with Monero since it was born/forked in 2014 and after all the GPU mining project finally went with RandomX as a last ditch to fight ASICs. So far RandomX been good and going strong.
My other project, Epic Cash, is a multi ago PoW with 60% of mined shares coming from Random X, 38% from GPU oriented ProgPow, and 2% from ASIC centric Cuckoo.
The reason we picked a three algo PoW cocktail is to accommodate the broadest group of potential miners possible. We are not going after career miners with Random X although we do have people with 10+ rigs dedicated to mining.
CPU Mining increasingly makes sense, because today's CPUs like Ryzen 3900x with their 12 cores and 24 threads are common in gaming rigs, along with decent video card or two, making this ideal for gamers who want to have a hand at mining.
They are also not beastly in terms of power consumption (couple hundred watts) and there are bigger versions like Ryzen 3950X with 16 cores and 32 threads all the way to the monstrous AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3990X 64-Core, 128-Thread! So this is scalable for beginners to pros. In terms of compactness they are also more manageable than the huge GPU farms.
The key for long lasting potential though, in my opinion is the potential for mainstream appeal - there is already infrastructure - people already got rigs and laptops with reasonably powerful CPUs and all they need is some crypto with enough potential for them to want to mine it.

my xmr rigs

4x 3900x.   44000
1x 3950x.   16000
1x 3960x.   24000
1x 3970x.   28000

total hash rate = 112,000. yeah I like xmr

[Abiky]

Response from Founder and Lead Developer of BiblePay (BBP), Rob Andrews:

"1) CPU mined coins do have a future, because the RandomX algorithm actually takes into account the clock cycles required to perform a task in the virtual machine on every possible device - therefore the general belief is its not going to ever be exploited by GPU or ASIC (as it is designed to run slower on those platforms).  Yes it might get replaced or upgraded some day, but bright minds do not see an attack vector.  (https://github.com/tevador/RandomX/issues/11)

2) There are over 100,000 randomx miners currently mining so its not true that a script kiddie can come in and take over the POW network. (65,000 on minexmr alone).

3) We have chainlocks, so in addition to RandomX there is a tiny fork risk because of our masternodes.

4) Its also not true that mining groups can take over RandomX because each machine runs the proprietary RX VM (virtual machine) and therefore you can't rent or steal or coerce new hashpower you simply have to have more miners.

5) BBP is fully compatible with RX so therefore we gain the security of the pool of RX miners as they discover merge mining."

=

BiblePay (BBP) coin, its a dual mine / merge mine with Monero (XMR),
so you gain both coins at the same time (BBP + XMR)! 190% mining revenue!

Learn More: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5226080.0

Some very interesting facts. Thanks for sharing. It seems to me that the CPU mining industry has a future after all. Never thought that Monero's RandomX PoW algorithm was extremely friendly to CPUs. As long as ASIC-resistance is kept in mind, CPU coins will be able to last for a very long time. Speaking of CPU-based PoW cryptocurrencies, Ravencoin seems to be a great option for mining nowadays. It goes easy on CPUs, and best of all, it's ASIC-resistant. There's also Wownero which is a fork of Monero that was the first to adopt RandomX PoW consensus.

I wasn't aware about BiblePay's merged-mine PoW model, but it's good to know. A great profit opportunity to earn both coins using the same hardware. What I've noticed about CPU-based cryptocurrencies is that they're not that valuable on the market. Monero is the only exception as it's a tried-and-tested coin with privacy features unlike no other blockchain network today. The only issue about coins that are mined with a CPU, are botnets. This could greatly undermine the network's security against 51% attacks. But with well-thought-out development, anything's possible. The list keeps on growing, but the most prominent CPU coins on the market right now are Verus, BiblePay, Monero, and Ravencoin. If people continue to demand these cryptocurrencies, they'll be largely successful in the long run. Just my thoughts

[togoshigekata]

Response from Founder and Lead Developer of BiblePay (BBP), Rob Andrews:

"1) CPU mined coins do have a future, because the RandomX algorithm actually takes into account the clock cycles required to perform a task in the virtual machine on every possible device - therefore the general belief is its not going to ever be exploited by GPU or ASIC (as it is designed to run slower on those platforms).  Yes it might get replaced or upgraded some day, but bright minds do not see an attack vector.  (https://github.com/tevador/RandomX/issues/11)

2) There are over 100,000 randomx miners currently mining so its not true that a script kiddie can come in and take over the POW network. (65,000 on minexmr alone).

3) We have chainlocks, so in addition to RandomX there is a tiny fork risk because of our masternodes.

4) Its also not true that mining groups can take over RandomX because each machine runs the proprietary RX VM (virtual machine) and therefore you can't rent or steal or coerce new hashpower you simply have to have more miners.

5) BBP is fully compatible with RX so therefore we gain the security of the pool of RX miners as they discover merge mining."

=

BiblePay (BBP) coin, its a dual mine / merge mine with Monero (XMR),
so you gain both coins at the same time (BBP + XMR)! 190% mining revenue!

Learn More: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5226080.0

Some very interesting facts. Thanks for sharing. It seems to me that the CPU mining industry has a future after all. Never thought that Monero's RandomX PoW algorithm was extremely friendly to CPUs. As long as ASIC-resistance is kept in mind, CPU coins will be able to last for a very long time. Speaking of CPU-based PoW cryptocurrencies, Ravencoin seems to be a great option for mining nowadays. It goes easy on CPUs, and best of all, it's ASIC-resistant. There's also Wownero which is a fork of Monero that was the first to adopt RandomX PoW consensus.

I wasn't aware about BiblePay's merged-mine PoW model, but it's good to know. A great profit opportunity to earn both coins using the same hardware. What I've noticed about CPU-based cryptocurrencies is that they're not that valuable on the market. Monero is the only exception as it's a tried-and-tested coin with privacy features unlike no other blockchain network today. The only issue about coins that are mined with a CPU, are botnets. This could greatly undermine the network's security against 51% attacks. But with well-thought-out development, anything's possible. The list keeps on growing, but the most prominent CPU coins on the market right now are Verus, BiblePay, Monero, and Ravencoin. If people continue to demand these cryptocurrencies, they'll be largely successful in the long run. Just my thoughts

>>> " The only issue about coins that are mined with a CPU, are botnets. This could greatly undermine the network's security against 51% attacks. But with well-thought-out development, anything's possible."

Check out Chainlocks! It helps greatly against 51% attacks because of masternode (2nd tier node) system

- https://dashnews.org/andreas-antonopoulos-calls-dash-chainlocks-a-smart-way-of-preventing-51-attacks/

- https://blog.dash.org/mitigating-51-attacks-with-llmq-based-chainlocks-7266aa648ec9

BiblePay has Chainlocks implemented and enabled!

[sunk818]

The other mitigation with a BiblePay is that since it is a fork of DASH, there's a floor and ceiling for mined reward amount. If the difficulty rises, the reward per block goes down. That will lower the incentive for botnets to participate. It doesn't remove participation completely, but it can discourage botnet operators.

I don't know if BiblePay is merged mine with Monero, as it more dual mining. You previously needed a custom xmrig, but now that out of the box xmrig can be used, all the hashing with BiblePay (BBP) and Monero (XMR) is handled on the pool side. The code is open and anyone can review it. I don't understand it myself since I'm not a coder, but the change the BiblePay dev made was very clever as you don't need a custom xmrig anymore to dual mine.

[Abiky]

Check out Chainlocks! It helps greatly against 51% attacks because of masternode (2nd tier node) system

- https://dashnews.org/andreas-antonopoulos-calls-dash-chainlocks-a-smart-way-of-preventing-51-attacks/

- https://blog.dash.org/mitigating-51-attacks-with-llmq-based-chainlocks-7266aa648ec9

BiblePay has Chainlocks implemented and enabled!

Great! I was not aware Dash has adopted a new mechanism for protection against 51% attacks. If it works as intended, CPU coins can remain resilient against Blockchain disruptions just like Bitcoin is today. I find myself BiblePay to be a very innovative coin, that's quite undervalued these days. This cryptocurrency alongside Veruscoin, are my most favorite CPU PoW coins to mine right now. Magi and Myriadcoin are good ones too, but they're largely abandoned by their developers. The tech and features may be there, but if there's no development or mainstream adoption, the coin will simply fail in the long run.

With a solution against 51% attacks, the concern of botnets "taking over the network" will be a thing of the past. I'd expect new CPU coins to emerge over time making use of the innovative "Chainlocks" technology, to expand miner's options in the crypto space. Just my opinion

[rehash]

Monero is the coin with the most CPU hashrate. It uses RandomX algo, which had a couple of serious audits and it holds very well so far agains GPUs and ASICs. There are a few more coins using RandomX, one of them which is more profitable than Monero is Arweave.

[Abiky]

Monero is the coin with the most CPU hashrate. It uses RandomX algo, which had a couple of serious audits and it holds very well so far agains GPUs and ASICs. There are a few more coins using RandomX, one of them which is more profitable than Monero is Arweave.

Yes. So far, Monero is the most successful CPU-based cryptocurrency around. I think that RandomX is very resistant against GPUs and even ASICs. If stays that way for the foreseeable future, then Monero will become the best CPU coin on the market. With a hard fork coming every 6 months in order to maintain ASIC resistance, I believe that Monero has a bright future ahead of it. While XMR is the biggest CPU coin to date, there are far more options available for the ASIC and GPU mining industry. We need more CPU coins in the crypto/Blockchain space in order to ramp up the competition. I know that the main issue about CPU PoW coins are botnets, but that could easily be solved by relying on the security of the main Bitcoin blockchain. The new dPoW algorithm by Komodo, makes this possible. I believe that Verus is a CPU coin which uses dPoW for protection against 51% attacks.

I've stumbled across many "yescrypt" coins on the market, but none of them have become popular in the crypto/Blockchain space. The majority have been abandoned by their developers, resulting in lack of interest from everyday people. Consider other CPU coins like Ultracoin (UTC), and Hodlcoin (HODL) which were really good choices on the market. After lack of development, they're almost dead. Magi is another CPU PoW coin that's good, but the main developer has abandoned it. While the community has taken charge, there's still a long way to go before Magi becomes popular in the crypto/Blockchain space. Let's hope that CPU coins get the attention they deserve as small miners are left out of the game. Eventually, most altcoins that are ASIC and GPU mineable will become dominated by big players in the industry. This will lead the average person towards CPU coins like Monero and the ones mentioned previously. There could be a bright future for CPU PoW coins if people continue to support them. Otherwise, they'll just become an idea that will eventually fade into oblivion. Just my thoughts