If Bitcoin had existed in 1930...

[Robert Paulson]

wouldnt be very useful pre- computer/ mobile

the system wouldn't be able to support a high enough transaction rate if everyone in germany moved to bitcoin in 1930.
im not even sure that in its current form bitcoin would work today if everyone in germany started using it 

[Beliathon]

wouldnt be very useful pre- computer/ mobile

It's a hypothetical scenario - forget the technical impossibility and just imagine that cryptocurrency (or some other, real-money global non-fiat currency exactly like it) existed.

Follow the logic of the individuals and play out the game theory.

Germans would've bailed out of their tin-pot dictator's fiat currency, opting instead for crypto - just like struggling Argentinians are doing RIGHT NOW as we speak.

Make no mistake, this technology will help humanity transcend the need for both bloody revolutions and bloody wars.

It is absolutely a step in the right direction, away from the dominance of the nation-state and toward empowering the individual.

[LostDutchman]

wouldnt be very useful pre- computer/ mobile

It's a hypothetical scenario - forget the technical impossibility and just imagine that cryptocurrency (or some other, real-money global non-fiat currency exactly like it) existed.

Follow the logic of the individuals and play out the game theory.

Germans would've bailed out of their tin-pot dictator's fiat currency, opting instead for crypto - just like struggling Argentinians are doing RIGHT NOW as we speak.

Make no mistake, this technology will help humanity transcend the need for both bloody revolutions and bloody wars.

It is absolutely a step in the right direction, away from the dominance of the nation-state and toward empowering the individual.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm............

Heavy, dude!

Heavy but utter nonsense I think.

My $.02.

[Beliathon]

Heavy but utter nonsense I think.

A decidedly unconvincing argument.

[leopard2]

Anyone who thinks fractional banking (aka legal counterfeit) is a good thing is an idiot, or works for the dark side.

It is not needed to move ahead. Central banks are not needed. Scientific progress is not a function of the money supply.

In ancient history much progress was made without fiat and without fractional lending

[DeathAndTaxes]

Hyperinflation in Germany was a symptom not the direct problem.  WWII was a direct result of asinine conclusion of WWI.  If Bitcoin existed (and was the sole global currency) WWII would have happened exactly as it did.  Remember money is merely an accounting system.  Germany had plenty of real wealth.  Most of WWI was fought OUTSIDE of Germany and while Germany "lost" they retained a massive industrial complex which rivaled their neighbors.  Now their neighbors decided to "punish" Germany in the peace treaty with utterly asinine conditions and Germany decided ... how about we stop paying the equivelent of 30% of your GDP in war reparations.  Of course once they broke that conditions (w/ no consequence) it became very easy to see how/why they broke all the other conditions (keep to prewar borders, remain demilitarized).

The short/simple version:
Making a peace treaty which "punishes" the more powerful nation who happened to lose the previous war and then not backing that up with military might is almost certainly going to lead to a second war.

None of those of course excuses the atrocities committed by Germany but in hindsight WWII was inevitable given the resolution of WWI.  Bitcoin wouldn't have changed that.

[QuestionAuthority]

LOL but no.
Fractional reserve, money creation, credits etc. are actually needed to move forward.

Good thing then that Bitcoin already has moved forward with the fractional banking that MtGox did?

Why is more money needed? Real wealth is the houses, machines, foods, services and other goods that we produce. If more money solves anything, why not just add an extra zero to all the bank accounts every year and we'd soon all be trillionaires?

"Only after the last tree has been cut down. Only after the last river has been poisoned. Only after the last fish has been caught. Only then will you find that money cannot be eaten.”
-Some native that got murdered by white folks.

lol, perfect description.

Wars start because humans like war. It's in our nature. Nothing can stop wars from happening until you lobotomize everyone on the planet. Someone somewhere will eventually find a justification for war.

If you want to mention a historical marker that Bitcoin could have solved try the 2008 bank failures. They happened because of fractional reserve banking that wouldn't exist if everyone used Bitcoin and kept it in their own wallet. 

[Robert Paulson]

Hyperinflation in Germany was a symptom not the direct problem.  WWII was a direct result of asinine conclusion of WWI.  If Bitcoin existed (and was the sole global currency) WWII would have happened exactly as it did.  Remember money is merely an accounting system.  Germany had plenty of real wealth.  Most of WWI was fought OUTSIDE of Germany and while Germany "lost" they retained a massive industrial complex which rivaled their neighbors.  Now their neighbors decided to "punish" Germany in the peace treaty with utterly asinine conditions and Germany decided ... how about we stop paying the equivelent of 30% of your GDP in war reparations.  Of course once they broke that conditions (w/ no consequence) it became very easy to see how/why they broke all the other conditions (keep to prewar borders, remain demilitarized).

The short/simple version:
Making a peace treaty which "punishes" the more powerful nation who happened to lose the previous war and then not backing that up with military might is almost certainly going to lead to a second war.

None of those of course excuses the atrocities committed by Germany but in hindsight WWII was inevitable given the resolution of WWI.  Bitcoin wouldn't have changed that.

its possible bitcoin could have prevented the weimar republic's hyper inflation (because they wouldn't be able to print money).
although this would have caused them to default on the reparations it would allow them to start producing goods again and would prevent or lessen the economic suffering that they had in the 30's.
this in turn might have stopped hitler from rising to power thus likely averting ww2.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Hyperinflation in Germany was a symptom not the direct problem.  WWII was a direct result of asinine conclusion of WWI.  If Bitcoin existed (and was the sole global currency) WWII would have happened exactly as it did.  Remember money is merely an accounting system.  Germany had plenty of real wealth.  Most of WWI was fought OUTSIDE of Germany and while Germany "lost" they retained a massive industrial complex which rivaled their neighbors.  Now their neighbors decided to "punish" Germany in the peace treaty with utterly asinine conditions and Germany decided ... how about we stop paying the equivelent of 30% of your GDP in war reparations.  Of course once they broke that conditions (w/ no consequence) it became very easy to see how/why they broke all the other conditions (keep to prewar borders, remain demilitarized).

The short/simple version:
Making a peace treaty which "punishes" the more powerful nation who happened to lose the previous war and then not backing that up with military might is almost certainly going to lead to a second war.

None of those of course excuses the atrocities committed by Germany but in hindsight WWII was inevitable given the resolution of WWI.  Bitcoin wouldn't have changed that.

its possible bitcoin could have prevented the weimar republic's hyper inflation (because they wouldn't be able to print money).
although this would have caused them to default on the reparations it would allow them to start producing goods again and would prevent or lessen the economic suffering that they had in the 30's.
this in turn might have stopped hitler from rising to power thus likely averting ww2.

The same thing could have happened without Bitcoin.   Hyperinflation didn't cause Germany do break the peace treaty.  The punitive peace treaty is what lead Germany to break it.  Germany could have been on a gold standard (forget that they could have been using pure gold coins) a peace treaty which imposed a penalty in excess of 30% of Germany GDP was simply broken.  It produced real economic and social suffering "at home".  At some point people are going to say "WTF?  He got factories lets just spend 30% of our GDP on making guns and bombs and stuff instead of handing it over to foreign powers".  Of course Germany could have just broken the reparations portions, but treaties as simply promises.  It becomes easier to break all of the promises once you start breaking some of them. 

WWII was inevitable given the asinine decisions made at the close of WWI.

Lets take
a) a nation with a massive industrial complex
b) history of military aggression
c) political will to justify expansion through military force
d) a belief (dubious as it might seem) that the territory (namely Poland) was fairly conquered and then "stolen" in the post-war treaty.

Now lets add
a) punitively impossible post war terms
b) absolutely no mechanism to force compliance with said terms.
c) a group of nations that when Germany began to break terms didn't react swiftly and decisively.

Oh look, who could possible imagine that the nation would break the terms are return to expansion through military might.   I mean it seems utterly implausible in hindsight right?

[Beliathon]

its possible bitcoin could have prevented the weimar republic's hyper inflation (because they wouldn't be able to print money). Although this would have caused them to default on the reparations it would allow them to start producing goods again and would prevent or lessen the economic suffering that they had in the 30's. this in turn might have stopped hitler from rising to power thus likely averting ww2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3_lVSrPB6w

[BCmale]

Much better if Stalin and Mao hadn't risen in power...commies suck. Sorry if this comment is off-topic, but a dictator is a dictator, doesn't matter where he/she comes from. Also, political correctness cannot be considered as a factor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/dictat.html

[leopard2]

WW2 would have been a different, probably much smaller conflict, without fiat.

Fiat and central banking was what really drove America and GB into WW2 - to cope with their crisis after 1929. You really believe they were doing it for humanitarian reasons to help out Poland?!

The same people that benefit from fiat were also interested in turning Adolf's, lets call it, merger with his neighbors, into WW2. Germany never attacked Britain or America, rather those nations declared war against Germany.

Now the question is, will high finance once again try to solve their problem by turning a local conflict in Ukraine into WW3? 

[LostDutchman]

Verrryyyyyyy interesting!*




My $.02.



* "Laugh In" reference!

[cheri0]

So you really think that if the third world war begin now bitcoin will help somehow? I don't think so

[jubalix]

LOL but no.
Fractional reserve, money creation, credits etc. are actually needed to move forward. You could argue that there is no need to move forward THAT much - and it may be true, but in capitalism/ democracy there is no one to control that.
I actually read a discussion stating that if bitcoin gets more popular they may appear bitcoins banks operating with fractional reserve etc (there is another question who would accept that "money").
Of course everything should be used in moderation.

PS In 1930 gold was pretty popular...

fractional reserve isn't inherently bad, as long as every one can do it, not just the state.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Everything was going so swell till them Damn Yankees cracked the hash code after the Marks (pun intended) lost his its value.

[Brangdon]

Everything was going so swell till them Damn Yankees cracked the hash code after the Marks (pun intended) lost his its value.

Um, I think you'll find the Enigma was broken by Damn Poles and Damn Brits, not Damn Yankees.

[Beliathon]

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"
-George Santayana

[CoolIT]

If cryptocurrency had been around in 1930, Hitler would've never risen to power, and World War II never would have happened.



Think about it.

Just one more reason Bitcoin is good for the world.

Computers however are one of the positive outcomes of the second world war.

[Beliathon]

If cryptocurrency had been around in 1930, Hitler would've never risen to power, and World War II never would have happened.



Think about it.

Just one more reason Bitcoin is good for the world.

Computers however are one of the positive outcomes of the second world war.

True, but this would've come about eventually, sooner or later. Things were already heading in that direction before the war, everything was just accelerated during wartime.