Does Mass Surveillance Lower Crime?

[Niya]

Mass Surveillance and Crime

Government's propaganda states that mass surveillance can help decrease crime rates.

On the contrary, many "soldiers of privacy" all over the world argue that mass surveillance not only acts as a serious threat to human freedom, but it's also quite ineffective about preventing and fighting criminality.

Are there actual data that support the latter or the former opinion? Otherwise, without proper data, they are just opinions and ideology.

[KingScorpio]

Mass Surveillance and Crime

Government's propaganda states that mass surveillance can help decrease crime rates.

On the contrary, many "soldiers of privacy" all over the world argue that mass surveillance not only acts as a serious threat to human freedom, but it's also quite ineffective about preventing and fighting criminality.

Are there actual data that support the latter or the former opinion? Otherwise, without proper data, they are just opinions and ideology.

mass surveilence are not a defence against suicidal invaders, they are a observation system on citizens behavior.

stop confusing both.

to defend against suicidal invaders you don't have police and cameras you have automatic sentry towers with lethal force.

[Mttewndew]

You understand very well how the backstage forces (which control the world) work - at first they organize some kind of event, then they attack it (saying that this is for our good), although in fact it is done to achieve greater control. Remember any situations with fake terrorist attacks and subsequent wars in order to take a more advantageous position for control and influence. There are a lot of such examples.

Now think about why mass surveillance are being introduced around the world. Who will follow us? Personally, I do not consent to surveillance of me, because I am primarily a human, like each of you.

[BADecker]

Does Mass Surveillance Lower Crime?


Only if the crooks know it exists, and there isn't anything they can do about it. It's called fear of reprisal.

[madnessteat]

I think that mass surveillance is more negative than positive for society. The perp wears a mask and can safely do whatever he wants under a video camera. Personally, I see all this as a violation of my rights and freedoms because I am a law-abiding citizen.

[Gyfts]

I'm sure it does but nobody wants the government digging through their personal lives to stop a crime they won't ever commit. Post 9/11, most governments began to spy on their citizens.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vault_7

[Mauser]

Mass Surveillance and Crime

Government's propaganda states that mass surveillance can help decrease crime rates.

On the contrary, many "soldiers of privacy" all over the world argue that mass surveillance not only acts as a serious threat to human freedom, but it's also quite ineffective about preventing and fighting criminality.

Are there actual data that support the latter or the former opinion? Otherwise, without proper data, they are just opinions and ideology.

I don't think mass surveillance really works, because you will never be able to cover 100% of the area with cameras. There will always be shadows and blind spots. Overall camera might help to reduce crimes in certrain area - for example if you want to make the city centre safer - but in total I don't think crime rates will drop. Crime will simply move it to other locations.

[bittraffic]

Well if there is something to hide, its definitely something that we are afraid of. Surveillance work as a matter of fact we use it to prevent crimes and save victims.  The only we care though is that if the information we provide goes to the wrong person or government that oppresses you who belong to a certain minority or ethnic group.

Many things can happen if the government knows everything about us like collecting our blood type and medical characteristics which if in the hands of someone, can either hurt us or help us.

[PavelMed]

There are a lot of fanatic works. in which the lives of the heroes take place in front of everyone. This is terrible, I do not want to read my correspondence, hear what I say. It’s just awful, and yes, it’s not a crime rate. It’s just such a bait to have less objection. Nobody wants to have a high crime rate.

[Naida_BR]

Mass Surveillance and Crime

Government's propaganda states that mass surveillance can help decrease crime rates.

On the contrary, many "soldiers of privacy" all over the world argue that mass surveillance not only acts as a serious threat to human freedom, but it's also quite ineffective about preventing and fighting criminality.

Are there actual data that support the latter or the former opinion? Otherwise, without proper data, they are just opinions and ideology.

mass surveilence are not a defence against suicidal invaders, they are a observation system on citizens behavior.

stop confusing both.

to defend against suicidal invaders you don't have police and cameras you have automatic sentry towers with lethal force.

Observation is not necessarily bad.
There are many cases that are solved due to the surveillance systems on the roads.
Criminals are found due to them.

[alani123]

Mass surveillance as it is done in the US has not proven to work. There are very few cases (if any) where authorities were admitting that they caught perpetrators due to NSA surveillance. Turns out that simply having ears everywhere can't do much when you can't even control the data. And the serious criminals find better channels to communicate anyway.

There is however a style of policing, that prevents crime merely by having some authority figure stand by.  Police patrolling for example is a known and effective crime prevention method. Why would anyone comit crimes in front of the people that would catch him anyway?

If you want some more extensive mass surveillance, you should look into China, and more specifically how they are literally oppressing Uyghurs. The government only allows authorized channels of communication and is known to tap phone conversations too. Apps for messages have government personnel in their offices. Everything is officially snooped and there is no alternative. Camwraw are on roads, microphones in mosques etc. People are afraid to speak to each other even. Mass surveillance worms as a preventative method if it is really applied to the masses without exception.

But it's not worth the sacrifice of so much privacy and government control.

[coolcoinz]

There's some truth to it. I read a lot about home security and it appears that there are certain things that discourage burglars and some that attract them. For instance, hidden cameras will not deter them, but visible cameras, even fake ones (but well made) will. Bars in the windows will attract them, but lights will act as a deterrent, especially strong lights activated by motion sensors.
So, it all depends on what crime we're talking about. A drug addict won't care if he's seen, a burglar will. Many murder cases were solved thanks to cctv.

[squatz1]

What type of crime?

Because US Survilenace hasn't stopped one single large scale terrorist attack from happening - https://theintercept.com/2015/11/17/u-s-mass-surveillance-has-no-record-of-thwarting-large-terror-attacks-regardless-of-snowden-leaks/ - and this is the literal reason the government uses when people ask why are you spying on us.

Small scale crime? Not really targeted with mass surveilance. If it was we'd know about it pretty quickly. Hard to keep the lid on that one.

[madnessteat]

~snip~

I think that most of the terrorist attacks are carried out by governments themselves in order to achieve their dirty goals - to start conflicts, to intimidate people to further allocate funds from the country's budget to fight terrorism.

It is time for us all to open our eyes and understand that nothing has been done for a long time to improve the quality of our lives.

[Gyfts]

What type of crime?

Because US Survilenace hasn't stopped one single large scale terrorist attack from happening - https://theintercept.com/2015/11/17/u-s-mass-surveillance-has-no-record-of-thwarting-large-terror-attacks-regardless-of-snowden-leaks/ - and this is the literal reason the government uses when people ask why are you spying on us.

Small scale crime? Not really targeted with mass surveilance. If it was we'd know about it pretty quickly. Hard to keep the lid on that one.

The government isn't going to release this sort of data for the sake of journalists writing a piece on national security. Divulging the attacks stopped by National Intelligence might cause unrest simply because of the implication of what could have happened, causing irrational fear, or having people question how the government got a hold of the intelligence in the first place.

The U.S. government absolutely spies on its citizens and there isn't any denying that. See the Vault 7 link I posted above. No one can reasonably expect them to come out and admit it or brag about how many terrorist attacks they've stopped. 

[franky1]

surveillance does not prevent/stop crime.
other wise thats a plotline for minority report movie.

the psychology is that if a would-be criminal were thinking of doing a crime. but then see's that there are camera's everywhere. they would think twice and maybe not do it.
so many shop owners put up dummy camera's or cheap ones with crappy quality lenses. just as a deterrent

but most criminals just damage a camera/ spraypaint the lens becore the crime. or wear a disguise.

the point of surveillance is not to directly stop crime. but when a crime is committed, police them have a large ware house of possible already gathered evidence to grab onto instantly to speed up the identification/detainment and incarceration of the criminal.

EG say an idiot went to a protest and got in a fight. as his defense 'im innocent i wanted to go for the peaceful protest'.. but the prosecutor finds evidence of email and skype message exchanges that the person planned it and it was pre-meditated fight.

now suddenly a small scuffle that might have just got a police warning. is suddenly a prison term for grieveous bodily harm with intent.

so its not really to stop crime. its to try to lower the number of crimes that dont result in arrest/prison

[ataraxiaceleste]

Yep! Finally we are accepting the thought police. Interesting times. Interesting measures. Not so interesting results?

[squatz1]

What type of crime?

Because US Survilenace hasn't stopped one single large scale terrorist attack from happening - https://theintercept.com/2015/11/17/u-s-mass-surveillance-has-no-record-of-thwarting-large-terror-attacks-regardless-of-snowden-leaks/ - and this is the literal reason the government uses when people ask why are you spying on us.

Small scale crime? Not really targeted with mass surveilance. If it was we'd know about it pretty quickly. Hard to keep the lid on that one.

The government isn't going to release this sort of data for the sake of journalists writing a piece on national security. Divulging the attacks stopped by National Intelligence might cause unrest simply because of the implication of what could have happened, causing irrational fear, or having people question how the government got a hold of the intelligence in the first place.

The U.S. government absolutely spies on its citizens and there isn't any denying that. See the Vault 7 link I posted above. No one can reasonably expect them to come out and admit it or brag about how many terrorist attacks they've stopped.  

But the case that I was referring to wasn't where journalists were asking, this was a piece of information that was leaked to (even if unclassified internally) to the intercept talking about terrorist cases from ISIL - https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/2515184/isil-related-arrests-in-homeland-from-jan2014.pdf

See here:

CIA Director John Brennan asserted on Monday that “many of these terrorist operations are uncovered and thwarted before they’re able to be carried out,” and lamented the post-Snowden “handwringing” that has made that job more difficult.

But the reason there haven’t been any large-scale terror attacks by ISIS in the U.S. is not because they were averted by the intelligence community, but because — with the possible exception of one that was foiled by local police — none were actually planned.

and

The recent history of terror arrests linked to ISIS is documented in an internal unclassified Department of Homeland Security document provided to The Intercept via SecureDrop. It shows that terror arrests between January 2014 and September 2015 linked to ISIS were largely of people trying to travel abroad, provide material support, or plan attacks that were essentially imaginary.

Honestly the whole article is very good - https://theintercept.com/2015/11/17/u-s-mass-surveillance-has-no-record-of-thwarting-large-terror-attacks-regardless-of-snowden-leaks/

[jrrsparkles]

Surveillance on common people won't help to decrease the crimes but it is against the human nature, we all need our privacy ad freedom if you are under surveillance for 24/7 then you will be more like a slave and then we can't really enjoy our life.

[Sendoku]

From my experience of living in an authoritarian state, mass surveillance can partially lower crime rate among citizens, but only by the awful cost of government being able to freely commit all these crimes by itself