Scams on Localbitcoins

[adz7]

I got scammed on LBC a couple months ago, first successful scam pulled off against me in my life... I was sent a $1k BOA transfer, money is in my account, I released BTC and their BOA transfer was reversed back to them - and I have done literally 100s of these before without this ever happening (I and others thought this to be impossible.)

So be careful.  Always know what you are dealing with online.

I also want to know how this could happen.  You do not need to show ID to deposit money into an account, but you do to withdraw it.  Also, what type of transfer was this, and were all accounts involved BOA?

This was an internal BOA transfer.  It happened because BOA claimed that the account that sent me money was hijacked by hackers, hackers sent me the money then I sent them bitcoins.  So false fraud was committed against me.

Interestingly/unfortunately/oddly enough, after having an account open with BOA for nearly 11 years, they closed my account 1-2 months after this incident.  I was a member of their highest public $ tier (platinum honors) and have never been in debt or caused them problems in my life.  This is the only reason why I think they may have done this, because they would not disclose the reason for closing my account.

That said, "anonymous" cash deposits are also reversible.  So you need to take precautions with those as well.  Anything banking related what-so-ever is reversible, I can guarantee you this.  Some are less so than others.  I learned this the hard way and I'm telling everyone here so you know what a shitty financial system we have out there and mostly so that the scammers do not win.

Hi there,

What I would do is propose the following:

1) Either way 1-2 days until the funds are cleared, in which case I would walk into the bank and withdraw the funds in cash myself at a bank's branch.

Or

2) Transfer the funds out of your account into another account.

I think it's the bank's system's which should be able to pick this up, don't see why you should be liable for something that their systems should be picking up.

Waiting is one of the best ways to help yourself, but then you run the risk of irritating the other person waiting for bitcoins as they are locked in escrow.  You can read up on other things you can do to protect yourself.

If you transfer the funds out of your account and then a reversal is successful on the fraudsters side, then you will go into the red on your bank account and will be indebted to the bank.  That will not work out in your favor.

Regarding your last paragraph:

You have a point there. BUT you can always argue to the bank that it is their system that was not compromised, and therefore, not your problem. I have worked at a bank, seen multiple customers who say this, they kick up a bit of noise in the branch, and before too many customers start worrying about why people are angry with the bank's service, the representative assures them that the bank will not be deducting any money from their account.

Waiting will irritate buyers. So walk into the bank and withdraw the money Once the bank allows you to withdraw money, they are basically saying "funds have been cleared"

[BitCoinDream]

We talking about America here mostly?  In the UK a direct banktransfer cannot be reversed

Not only in UK ...in most of the countries across the globe, online transfer cant be reversed

[theskillzdatklls]

We talking about America here mostly?  In the UK a direct banktransfer cannot be reversed

Not only in UK ...in most of the countries across the globe, online transfer cant be reversed

Do you have a 100% solid fact list of countries where wire transfers (or internal transfers etc) cannot be reversed and proof to support this?  Or the ability to even list a few countries?

I would be genuinely curious to see this since I travel abroad and need new banking options.

[ViewSonic]

Scams are everywhere! We need to come up with a radical way how to fight them

[grahvity]

Scams are everywhere! We need to come up with a radical way how to fight them

Detection, documentation, sharing and learning from other's experiences. Nothing radical necessary nor possible.

[haploid23]

I got scammed on LBC a couple months ago, first successful scam pulled off against me in my life... I was sent a $1k BOA transfer, money is in my account, I released BTC and their BOA transfer was reversed back to them - and I have done literally 100s of these before without this ever happening (I and others thought this to be impossible.)

So be careful.  Always know what you are dealing with online.

I also want to know how this could happen.  You do not need to show ID to deposit money into an account, but you do to withdraw it.  Also, what type of transfer was this, and were all accounts involved BOA?

This was an internal BOA transfer.  It happened because BOA claimed that the account that sent me money was hijacked by hackers, hackers sent me the money then I sent them bitcoins.  So false fraud was committed against me.

Interestingly/unfortunately/oddly enough, after having an account open with BOA for nearly 11 years, they closed my account 1-2 months after this incident.  I was a member of their highest public $ tier (platinum honors) and have never been in debt or caused them problems in my life.  This is the only reason why I think they may have done this, because they would not disclose the reason for closing my account.

That said, "anonymous" cash deposits are also reversible.  So you need to take precautions with those as well.  Anything banking related what-so-ever is reversible, I can guarantee you this.  Some are less so than others.  I learned this the hard way and I'm telling everyone here so you know what a shitty financial system we have out there and mostly so that the scammers do not win.

Hi there,

What I would do is propose the following:

1) Either way 1-2 days until the funds are cleared, in which case I would walk into the bank and withdraw the funds in cash myself at a bank's branch.

Or

2) Transfer the funds out of your account into another account.

I think it's the bank's system's which should be able to pick this up, don't see why you should be liable for something that their systems should be picking up.

Waiting is one of the best ways to help yourself, but then you run the risk of irritating the other person waiting for bitcoins as they are locked in escrow.  You can read up on other things you can do to protect yourself.

If you transfer the funds out of your account and then a reversal is successful on the fraudsters side, then you will go into the red on your bank account and will be indebted to the bank.  That will not work out in your favor.

Regarding your last paragraph:

You have a point there. BUT you can always argue to the bank that it is their system that was not compromised, and therefore, not your problem. I have worked at a bank, seen multiple customers who say this, they kick up a bit of noise in the branch, and before too many customers start worrying about why people are angry with the bank's service, the representative assures them that the bank will not be deducting any money from their account.

Waiting will irritate buyers. So walk into the bank and withdraw the money Once the bank allows you to withdraw money, they are basically saying "funds have been cleared"

No, this does NOT work, and I'm speaking from personal experience. I've lost several thousand $ to a scam like this, where after the buyer reversed the cash deposit after I released the bitcoins. I said this is not my problem, I have clear definitive proof that the transaction went through, but the bank said it was a fraudulent transaction according to the owner. The bank was obligated to return the funds, no other details were told. Shortly after, my account was closed, and I was the one flagged as fraudulent.

This type of incident is just disgusting. I lost bitcoins, cash, got my account closed, and reported as fraud to chexsystems. It makes me feel that the bank was more of a scammer than the thief.

[theskillzdatklls]

I got scammed on LBC a couple months ago, first successful scam pulled off against me in my life... I was sent a $1k BOA transfer, money is in my account, I released BTC and their BOA transfer was reversed back to them - and I have done literally 100s of these before without this ever happening (I and others thought this to be impossible.)

So be careful.  Always know what you are dealing with online.

I also want to know how this could happen.  You do not need to show ID to deposit money into an account, but you do to withdraw it.  Also, what type of transfer was this, and were all accounts involved BOA?

This was an internal BOA transfer.  It happened because BOA claimed that the account that sent me money was hijacked by hackers, hackers sent me the money then I sent them bitcoins.  So false fraud was committed against me.

Interestingly/unfortunately/oddly enough, after having an account open with BOA for nearly 11 years, they closed my account 1-2 months after this incident.  I was a member of their highest public $ tier (platinum honors) and have never been in debt or caused them problems in my life.  This is the only reason why I think they may have done this, because they would not disclose the reason for closing my account.

That said, "anonymous" cash deposits are also reversible.  So you need to take precautions with those as well.  Anything banking related what-so-ever is reversible, I can guarantee you this.  Some are less so than others.  I learned this the hard way and I'm telling everyone here so you know what a shitty financial system we have out there and mostly so that the scammers do not win.

Hi there,

What I would do is propose the following:

1) Either way 1-2 days until the funds are cleared, in which case I would walk into the bank and withdraw the funds in cash myself at a bank's branch.

Or

2) Transfer the funds out of your account into another account.

I think it's the bank's system's which should be able to pick this up, don't see why you should be liable for something that their systems should be picking up.

Waiting is one of the best ways to help yourself, but then you run the risk of irritating the other person waiting for bitcoins as they are locked in escrow.  You can read up on other things you can do to protect yourself.

If you transfer the funds out of your account and then a reversal is successful on the fraudsters side, then you will go into the red on your bank account and will be indebted to the bank.  That will not work out in your favor.

Regarding your last paragraph:

You have a point there. BUT you can always argue to the bank that it is their system that was not compromised, and therefore, not your problem. I have worked at a bank, seen multiple customers who say this, they kick up a bit of noise in the branch, and before too many customers start worrying about why people are angry with the bank's service, the representative assures them that the bank will not be deducting any money from their account.

Waiting will irritate buyers. So walk into the bank and withdraw the money Once the bank allows you to withdraw money, they are basically saying "funds have been cleared"

No, this does NOT work, and I'm speaking from personal experience. I've lost several thousand $ to a scam like this, where after the buyer reversed the cash deposit after I released the bitcoins. I said this is not my problem, I have clear definitive proof that the transaction went through, but the bank said it was a fraudulent transaction according to the owner. The bank was obligated to return the funds, no other details were told. Shortly after, my account was closed, and I was the one flagged as fraudulent.

This type of incident is just disgusting. I lost bitcoins, cash, got my account closed, and reported as fraud to chexsystems. It makes me feel that the bank was more of a scammer than the thief.

Wow, you and I have lived identical lives.  Nice to meet you.

[enpott]

be careful when dealing with new online.

[CoinMKT.com]

I would almost always recommend dealing in person to person. 

Online is shady, and you have to treat localbitcoins similiar to craigslist.

Meet in public space, check reputation, deal in small amounts first to confirm then go from there. 

[durrrr]

I got scammed on LBC a couple months ago, first successful scam pulled off against me in my life... I was sent a $1k BOA transfer, money is in my account, I released BTC and their BOA transfer was reversed back to them - and I have done literally 100s of these before without this ever happening (I and others thought this to be impossible.)

So be careful.  Always know what you are dealing with online.

i didnt realise this was possible i been just recently using bank transfers and didnt realise this wasnt a safe method to use. what do you use otherwise? how can i protect myself

[theskillzdatklls]

I got scammed on LBC a couple months ago, first successful scam pulled off against me in my life... I was sent a $1k BOA transfer, money is in my account, I released BTC and their BOA transfer was reversed back to them - and I have done literally 100s of these before without this ever happening (I and others thought this to be impossible.)

So be careful.  Always know what you are dealing with online.

i didnt realise this was possible i been just recently using bank transfers and didnt realise this wasnt a safe method to use. what do you use otherwise? how can i protect myself

if you are doing BOA to BOA, an idea of what you could do is:
get their acc/zip/name, add that to your account to make sure its valid
have them take a picture of their face and photo ID next to each other
verify that the account transfer inbound to you is the same as info provided above

that way they can't claim false fraud or 'man in the middle'.
you just have to think of ways that defeat their angle.

[Harley997]

LocalBitcoins
In person selling is great.
Online selling is awful.  I get hammered all day with scam attempts.
I haven't figured out the rules with Western Union.
Can a transaction be reversed once it says "on location"
I've been waiting until I have cash in hand to release coins.  But, do I have to do this?
Daily trips are annoying - and I'd like to go once a week and get all the payments.
But, I don't want legitimate buyers to wait.

Any other sellers have some insight?

Even seemingly "unreversible" payment methods can be reversed if the timing is right. To answer OP question, yes a WU can be reversed until you have actually been given cash.

Even a cash deposit can in theory be reversed.

It is best to wait until you have cash in hand until you release escrow on localbitcoins.

[haploid23]

We talking about America here mostly?  In the UK a direct banktransfer cannot be reversed

This is absolutely not correct, no matter what country you're from. I received a direct bank transfer that was reversed. It was an ACH transfer, meaning a cash equivalent, yet the scammer somehow pulled some strings to have it reversed. Anything electronic, CAN be reversed and I learned this the hard way. You need to have cash in hand to call it safe.

[Harley997]

We talking about America here mostly?  In the UK a direct banktransfer cannot be reversed

This is absolutely not correct, no matter what country you're from. I received a direct bank transfer that was reversed. It was an ACH transfer, meaning a cash equivalent, yet the scammer somehow pulled some strings to have it reversed. Anything electronic, CAN be reversed and I learned this the hard way. You need to have cash in hand to call it safe.

An ACH transfer is very much like depositing a check. It could be returned/reversed due to NSF (fairly unusual but possible) or for any other reason a check can be returned.

[bitbaby]

This worries me a lot, I don't use Skrill or Paypal since I heard they were reversible but I did traded some bitcoins for wire transfer and if they are also reversible then how does one goes about exchanging btc for fiat. After how many days can the wire transfer be reversed I traded some btc 15 days back but the money is still in my bank account?   

[Harley997]

This worries me a lot, I don't use Skrill or Paypal since I heard they were reversible but I did traded some bitcoins for wire transfer and if they are also reversible then how does one goes about exchanging btc for fiat. After how many days can the wire transfer be reversed I traded some btc 15 days back but the money is still in my bank account?   

A wire transfer is generally not reversible but could be reversed in the event of a error on the sending bank's side.

The only real 100% for sure way to know that you will be paid is cash in hand (cash never touched your bank account)

[joshraban76]

I recently stopped using localbitcoins, it was my favorite, but now I prefer any friend who do exchanges.

[adz7]

LocalBitcoins
In person selling is great.
Online selling is awful.  I get hammered all day with scam attempts.
I haven't figured out the rules with Western Union.
Can a transaction be reversed once it says "on location"
I've been waiting until I have cash in hand to release coins.  But, do I have to do this?
Daily trips are annoying - and I'd like to go once a week and get all the payments.
But, I don't want legitimate buyers to wait.

Any other sellers have some insight?

Yes, any WU transfers can be reversed at ANY TIME.

I had a transfer marked as "Ready for pickup" got there but the guy said that the transfer was cancelled.

So always best to make sure that you receive money first, before releasing coins.

[adz7]

I got scammed on LBC a couple months ago, first successful scam pulled off against me in my life... I was sent a $1k BOA transfer, money is in my account, I released BTC and their BOA transfer was reversed back to them - and I have done literally 100s of these before without this ever happening (I and others thought this to be impossible.)

So be careful.  Always know what you are dealing with online.

I also want to know how this could happen.  You do not need to show ID to deposit money into an account, but you do to withdraw it.  Also, what type of transfer was this, and were all accounts involved BOA?

This was an internal BOA transfer.  It happened because BOA claimed that the account that sent me money was hijacked by hackers, hackers sent me the money then I sent them bitcoins.  So false fraud was committed against me.

Interestingly/unfortunately/oddly enough, after having an account open with BOA for nearly 11 years, they closed my account 1-2 months after this incident.  I was a member of their highest public $ tier (platinum honors) and have never been in debt or caused them problems in my life.  This is the only reason why I think they may have done this, because they would not disclose the reason for closing my account.

That said, "anonymous" cash deposits are also reversible.  So you need to take precautions with those as well.  Anything banking related what-so-ever is reversible, I can guarantee you this.  Some are less so than others.  I learned this the hard way and I'm telling everyone here so you know what a shitty financial system we have out there and mostly so that the scammers do not win.

They close your account because AS SOON AS THEY REALISE you are trading in bitcoin (or have anything to do with even a bitcoin transfer or the like) they will close your account down faster than you can say Arnold Schwarzenegger.

[duke1839]

Be aware of scammers uploading fake B of A deposit receipts.  I've been getting a lot of those lately.  I think B of A receipts are easier to forge than other banks.