Gambling Affiliates: Carryover of Negative Revenue Share Profit

[tyz]

I would like to read your experiences with negative carryover from gambling affiliate earnings. Especially with betting sites.

In the past few years I have had small amounts of negative carryover on various gambling sites from time to time. Those carryovers were usually equalized after 1-2 months at the latest, so that I had a positive balance again. Some sites even limit the time you take the negative carryover with you before it is set to zero.

In a current case with a betting site I have a large negative carryover due to a successful user that has been carried over for more than a year now, which means that it will probably take a very long time until I have affiliate income again on the site, although many referrals are active, but their losses do not compensate the high profits which were made by one referral.

[TheUltraElite]

Can you explain what you mean by negative carryover? Is it like the casino's loss incurred due to a high roller that ends up on your plate because you were the member who referred them in the first place?

I havent seen anything like that in any of the casinos that I run affiliate campaigns on namely Primedice, Stake, cryptogames, freebitco.in. Which site are we talking about though?

But in general, all the casinos give you the referral commission from the "wager" and not the casino's profit. So even if the casino loses or the player loses, you still get your x% of the amount wagered.

[Lakai01]

Can you explain what you mean by negative carryover? Is it like the casino's loss incurred due to a high roller that ends up on your plate because you were the member who referred them in the first place?

I think tyz is talking about sites like Bustadice.com where you can invest in the casinos bankroll, here is a short description:

Be the bankroll

Looking to grow your Bitcoins slowly rather than for a thrill? Invest in the bankroll and participate in the casino's profits.

invest and divest whenever you want competitive commission of 50 % on profits receive compensation when the bankroll is diluted proper risk management limited by the Kelly criterion

Source

So you sort of participate in the profits of the casino and you therefore lend them your BTC.  If the casino makes a profit, you get a part of it.  If the casino makes losses through, for example because of whales that make big profits, this also affects those who are invested in the bankroll.  But as I said, it's just a guess...

[TheUltraElite]

I think tyz is talking about sites like Bustadice.com where you can invest in the casinos bankroll, here is a short description:

That may be the case however it would be a gross mistake to call that as affiliate profit. As far as my knowledge is, affiliate marketing is for referral commission and casino bankroll investment is a different thing. But sensibly that can be the only case where negative numbers are possible.

If this is the case, my suggestion would be to move on to cryptogames or yolodice. Considering their revenue income in the long term basis, I have seen that it does not stay negative for too long there, havent used busta so I cant comment on that. The long term value is always positive for the casino and its investors so it is good for the long term but definitely not good is still in the negative numbers

[ralle14]

Ultra is right, I also think tyz is specifically talking about the gambling affiliate or referrals rather than the casino bankroll because there are different ways to distribute gambling affiliate profits for example it could be based on the total wager of the referred user or sometimes the overall profit. Having a negative profit is one possible scenario if the affiliate system is focused on the profit rather than the wagered amount.

[tyz]

I think I should make things more precise

The case I described in the first post concerns Sportsbet.io affiliate. At Sportsbet you only earn if a referred user loses a bet. If a user wins a bet you get negative affiliate balance. The idea behind this is that more users usually lose than win, so the affiliate partner makes a gain in the long run anyway. Now in this case a user made big profits with two bets (> 1 Bitcoin) over a year ago. Since then my affiliate balance has been negative. The negative balance has declined a little over the last months but there is still a huge negative balance which is carried over from month to month.

[Timelord2067]

Are you carrying the losses of the Casino as an investor, or, are you yet to receive a payment from a referral scheme as some of the other people are asking?  Your OP is very vague as to what you are referring to.

[TheUltraElite]

Ok so I checked the sportsbet.io affliate page here https://sportsbet.io/support/affiliate-faq

and found this:

If a player wins a large amount, does the negative balance carry over to the next month?

When your player wins at our sportsbook or casino, your commission might be affected since we deduct those winnings from the earnings. However, large winnings are not likely to occur consistently for a long period of time. When the player continues playing, your commission will continue to grow.

I didnt know about this and now I can understand what the OP means. So this is probably the first time I am seeing a casino which gives commission based on the player's win or loss aka casino's loss or win, respectively.

Now if I was in the OP's place, I would stop taking part in this type of referral system, they do give 35% commission but I prefer the 5% I get from other sites and that is only wager amount based and not win/loss based.

In my opinion, OP is being ripped off with this type of deal, even though the OP has not used any money to take part in it. Would be wiser IMO to go for the other casinos which I posted in my first post here.

[leea-1334]

Sounds like a terrible situation to be in, to be actively referring people and yet being asked to also have the burden of their losses? I had no idea this was how gambling affiliates worked. I only refer to Yolodice but there you receive a commission calculated from the wager not from actual revenue. So that is a protected way in my mind.

[swogerino]

Sounds like a terrible situation to be in, to be actively referring people and yet being asked to also have the burden of their losses? I had no idea this was how gambling affiliates worked. I only refer to Yolodice but there you receive a commission calculated from the wager not from actual revenue. So that is a protected way in my mind.

I think that the decision is up to the gambler in such situation.If he is afraid of negative carryover he can opt to switch casino and be happy with 5-10% referral based commission based on wagering.However I would love the thrill of 35% commission if someone of my referrals hit the jackpot.If someone does in the normal referring situation you only get his wagering bonus and not his win.So this is mostly based on how a gambler views the referring system of the casinos.

[avikz]

I think I should make things more precise

The case I described in the first post concerns Sportsbet.io affiliate. At Sportsbet you only earn if a referred user loses a bet. If a user wins a bet you get negative affiliate balance. The idea behind this is that more users usually lose than win, so the affiliate partner makes a gain in the long run anyway. Now in this case a user made big profits with two bets (> 1 Bitcoin) over a year ago. Since then my affiliate balance has been negative. The negative balance has declined a little over the last months but there is still a huge negative balance which is carried over from month to month.

Ohh! It's surprising to know such huge risks comes with referring players in a casino or sportsbetting website. I don't have much personal experience but do you need to pay to the casino if you get into a negative balance due to big wins by your referrals?

If not, then I think it's wise to wait till the time your balance gets into positive and you are able to make an withdrawal. But if it's about paying out of your own pocket, then it's super risky to even refer a player into sportbetting.

I hope that's not the case here!

[BitcoinTurk]

I am not sure if I understood exactly the situation you mentioned, but if I understand correctly, I would like to state that you have touched on a very correct point. If there is no misunderstanding and you are talking about the reference system of gambling sites, I think these systems are definitely not correct. Although these methods seem logical if we look and think through the eyes of businesses, it is not really logical when viewed by the user.

[ralle14]

Ohh! It's surprising to know such huge risks comes with referring players in a casino or sportsbetting website. I don't have much personal experience but do you need to pay to the casino if you get into a negative balance due to big wins by your referrals?

If not, then I think it's wise to wait till the time your balance gets into positive and you are able to make an withdrawal. But if it's about paying out of your own pocket, then it's super risky to even refer a player into sportbetting.

I hope that's not the case here!

I don't think you have to pay once your balance goes negative because that would be discouraging for the referrer if it's true. Usually there's a seperate balance between the two(gambling and affiliate) to avoid confusion.

I barely have experience with gambling affiliates but i've tried both options before and the profit based affiliate was more succesful than the wager based. I can't check the stats anymore but I guess I was just lucky.

[tyz]

Are you carrying the losses of the Casino as an investor, or, are you yet to receive a payment from a referral scheme as some of the other people are asking?  Your OP is very vague as to what you are referring to.

No, I carry the losses as a normal user who referred a new member who made big profits. I am not an investor of the betting site.

I don't think you have to pay once your balance goes negative because that would be discouraging for the referrer if it's true. Usually there's a seperate balance between the two(gambling and affiliate) to avoid confusion.

No, you do not have to pay if the balance goes negative. But all future profits from referrals are offset against the negative balance first. If the balance goes positive again you can make a withdrawal.

[serjent05]

I am not sure if I understood exactly the situation you mentioned, but if I understand correctly, I would like to state that you have touched on a very correct point. If there is no misunderstanding and you are talking about the reference system of gambling sites, I think these systems are definitely not correct. Although these methods seem logical if we look and think through the eyes of businesses, it is not really logical when viewed by the user.

There is no argument whether this system is correct or not.  It is the rule of the Company and tyz agrees with it.

I stumbled on this kind of referral system where the % of the losses of the company/casino will be shouldered by the person when his referral won through referral bonus deduction, but in return, he will get a bigger percentage from the losses of his referral.  The first thing I do is to drop the idea of referring people to the site since I always wanted my referral to win.

Sounds like a terrible situation to be in, to be actively referring people and yet being asked to also have the burden of their losses? I had no idea this was how gambling affiliates worked. I only refer to Yolodice but there you receive a commission calculated from the wager not from actual revenue. So that is a protected way in my mind.

Actually it is not a terrible situation because the payment of the negative balance will only be paid by the earned balance from his referral.  And tyz is not obligated to pay for it from his own fund aside from the earnings from his referral on that site.  It just needs time and it will be paid while tyz is doing something else or earning from other sites .

[mersal]

I would like to read your experiences with negative carryover from gambling affiliate earnings. Especially with betting sites.

In the past few years I have had small amounts of negative carryover on various gambling sites from time to time. Those carryovers were usually equalized after 1-2 months at the latest, so that I had a positive balance again. Some sites even limit the time you take the negative carryover with you before it is set to zero.

In a current case with a betting site I have a large negative carryover due to a successful user that has been carried over for more than a year now, which means that it will probably take a very long time until I have affiliate income again on the site, although many referrals are active, but their losses do not compensate the high profits which were made by one referral.

I didn't know that we also lose our earned money from referrals if they won that bet so basically I never had experience with this kind of affiliate marketing.But here all the advantages goes to the casino but you holds risk of losing your earnings even after you worked for it.

[Hippocrypto]

Sounds like a terrible situation to be in, to be actively referring people and yet being asked to also have the burden of their losses? I had no idea this was how gambling affiliates worked. I only refer to Yolodice but there you receive a commission calculated from the wager not from actual revenue. So that is a protected way in my mind.

That's a part of emotional adjustments on how to accept a certain losses, and we can't prevent those factors. Every people who will be involved will always be a part of the risk driven by gambling, and it's always win or loss situation. Maybe they're taking small percentage of the revenue to be given to each and every user.

[TGD]

In a current case with a betting site I have a large negative carryover due to a successful user that has been carried over for more than a year now, which means that it will probably take a very long time until I have affiliate income again on the site, although many referrals are active, but their losses do not compensate the high profits which were made by one referral.

Do your referral who won huge amount still playing the casino? If yes, Just wait for now because he will lose soon as long as keep playing in the casino regularly with a consistent amount of bet from the beginning. But if he is a wise gambler who know the right bankroll management then you might not recover your negative carry over.

This profit sharing of sportsbet is one thing I hate. You will suffer if you refer anyone especially those PRO players. Sportsbet wants to share pain to the user who brings pain to there casino. I suggest to contact there support to remove that one referral of your since you are suffering already for a year.

[STT]

How did they win so much, randomly or through skill.    Sounds like you have to start over if you want to continue referring new users, separate the smaller fishes from that big fry who had such good luck that it's wiping all other considerations out.
  Not sure any complaint can be made when 35% of bet revenue comes to an affiliate, thats really generous if its as good as it seems in the good times that could pay out alot and its true most gamblers dont make out big but pay the house cut on average which is a profitable business obviously.    I presume they carry over forever without stop both the profit and any negative like that, have to take the good with the bad but I agree it sounds discouraging to further efforts if you have no idea how to get a similar sized bettor to throw down 1 BTC.

[ralle14]

Do your referral who won huge amount still playing the casino? If yes, Just wait for now because he will lose soon as long as keep playing in the casino regularly with a consistent amount of bet from the beginning. But if he is a wise gambler who know the right bankroll management then you might not recover your negative carry over.

This profit sharing of sportsbet is one thing I hate. You will suffer if you refer anyone especially those PRO players. Sportsbet wants to share pain to the user who brings pain to there casino. I suggest to contact there support to remove that one referral of your since you are suffering already for a year.

Only if the gambler continues to gamble if not tyz will have a hard time recovering or clear out the negative balance. Profit sharing is like a double edge sword it does have risks since you rely on the players to lose but once it pays off you could get a lot from it.

Is it even possible to remove a referral ? It might be better to just leave them for now because the damage is already done and he could miss out on the opportunity to recover.