Couple was forcibly ask by IRS to sell their crypto to pay their liabilities

[Baofeng]

In summary:

- Alexander and Laura Strashny filed income tax return due in 2017, but unable to pay

- they sent IRS letters proposing to pay the liability in iinstallments over a period of 6 years

-  IRS received the proposal recorded it and put in in pending status

- As of December 2018, the outstanding liability + interest exceeded $1 million

- IRS sent petition notice "Intent to Seize Your Assets" and Notice of Your Right to a Hearing.

- Petitioners timely requested a CDPhearing, expressinginterest in an installment agreement (IA) and attaching a copyof their previously submitted Forms 433-A and 9465.  They did notcheck the boxindicating thattheycould not pay the balance, and they did notdispute theirunderlyingliability for 2017.

- SO review the case and saw that they have a huge cryptocurrency investment

- SO eceived from petitioners’ repre-sentative a copy of their 2018 tax return, which reported wages exceeding $200,000, and investment statements showing cryptocurrency assets valued over$7 million.  During the conference the SO noted that petitioners were currently
- 4-[*4] withdrawing$19,000 per month from their cryptocurrency account, and she asked why they could not liquidate or borrow against those assets in order to discharge their tax liabilityin full.

- Lawyers for the petitioners argue that they are unable to draw on their cryptocurrency account to pay their liability.

- On June 25, 2019, the IRS issued a notice of determination sustaining the proposed levy, rejecting petitioners’ request for an IA, and stating that “[l]evyaction is permitted 30 daysafter the rejection.

https://www.ustaxcourt.gov/USTCInOP/OpinionViewer.aspx?ID=12258


There's no denying that the petitioners have money to pay to settled their tax liabilities. But they can't withdraw it in a timely manner, maybe they are waiting for the price to go up and make profit to at least lessen the damage. What are your thoughts on this?

Are you willing to sell your crypto to pay our debts or just go on settle it in months or years?

[1715000666]

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[pakhitheboss]

Cryptocurrency is already under the scanner of government agencies. They have associated it with everything which is illegal.

After reading the story of this couple I am in the conclusion that they are wrong on their part. I have no doubt about it. They should immediately do something to repay their tax.

If they need to sell their crypto assets then they should otherwise, the tax agency would suggest the government that cryptocurrency is a new illegal way to abet tax.

It does sound silly but, it will happen for sure.

[Juggy777]

In summary:

- Alexander and Laura Strashny filed income tax return due in 2017, but unable to pay

- they sent IRS letters proposing to pay the liability in iinstallments over a period of 6 years

-  IRS received the proposal recorded it and put in in pending status

- As of December 2018, the outstanding liability + interest exceeded $1 million

- IRS sent petition notice "Intent to Seize Your Assets" and Notice of Your Right to a Hearing.

- Petitioners timely requested a CDPhearing, expressinginterest in an installment agreement (IA) and attaching a copyof their previously submitted Forms 433-A and 9465.  They did notcheck the boxindicating thattheycould not pay the balance, and they did notdispute theirunderlyingliability for 2017.

- SO review the case and saw that they have a huge cryptocurrency investment

- SO eceived from petitioners’ repre-sentative a copy of their 2018 tax return, which reported wages exceeding $200,000, and investment statements showing cryptocurrency assets valued over$7 million.  During the conference the SO noted that petitioners were currently
- 4-[*4] withdrawing$19,000 per month from their cryptocurrency account, and she asked why they could not liquidate or borrow against those assets in order to discharge their tax liabilityin full.

- Lawyers for the petitioners argue that they are unable to draw on their cryptocurrency account to pay their liability.

- On June 25, 2019, the IRS issued a notice of determination sustaining the proposed levy, rejecting petitioners’ request for an IA, and stating that “[l]evyaction is permitted 30 daysafter the rejection.

https://www.ustaxcourt.gov/USTCInOP/OpinionViewer.aspx?ID=12258


There's no denying that the petitioners have money to pay to settled their tax liabilities. But they can't withdraw it in a timely manner, maybe they are waiting for the price to go up and make profit to at least lessen the damage. What are your thoughts on this?

Are you willing to sell your crypto to pay our debts or just go on settle it in months or years?

Cryptocurrency is already under the scanner of government agencies. They have associated it with everything which is illegal.

After reading the story of this couple I am in the conclusion that they are wrong on their part. I have no doubt about it. They should immediately do something to repay their tax.

If they need to sell their crypto assets then they should otherwise, the tax agency would suggest the government that cryptocurrency is a new illegal way for them to abet tax.

It does sound silly but, it will happen for sure.

@Baofeng I’m really baffled as their tax liability was just 1 million plus interest, and they had over $7 million in crypto assets then why didn’t they sell off their crypto’s and clear their dues?, unless they had no real intention of paying their dues which is really shameful considering the fact that they had the required funds to pay off their dues.

@pakhitheboss you maybe surprised to know but bitcoin is legal in USA, hence the government cannot seize their crypto assets by claiming it’s illegal, also is there any link where we can follow further updates regarding this matter?.

As of February 2020, Bitcoin was legal in the U.S., Japan, the U.K., Canada, and most other developed countries. In the emerging markets, the legal status of Bitcoin still varied dramatically. China heavily restricted Bitcoin without actually criminalizing the holding of bitcoins. India banned banks from dealing in bitcoins and left the overall legal status of cryptocurrencies unclear. In general, it is necessary to look at Bitcoin laws in specific countries.

Source:

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/121515/bitcoin-legal-us.asp

[alani123]

This is such a weird case.

I think the couple have probable ulterior motives for doing such things. Perhaps bringing their crypto assets under the eyes of the law would allow the accusers to see that they could be paid in full. The very reason they consider this case worth fighting, probably means they owe more than the accuser could force them to pay, and they likely know that crypto assets can't be seized so easily without your consent. Their lawyer expenses must be huge anyway.

This is a crazy case, but I wouldn't consider it setting any precedent that would be worth looking back to, unless of course it moves to a higher court. IRS tends to avoid setting precedents afaik. Guidelines and regulations vary from state to state and the landscape in the U.S. is generally very fractured.

[avikz]

There's no denying that the petitioners have money to pay to settled their tax liabilities. But they can't withdraw it in a timely manner, maybe they are waiting for the price to go up and make profit to at least lessen the damage. What are your thoughts on this?

Are you willing to sell your crypto to pay our debts or just go on settle it in months or years?

Probably that's the reason why IRS declined their Installment payment requests. If someone has $7 million but still asking for favors from the government agency, doesn't really show a good picture. Liabilities of any sort is not good for anybody's financial health and when the liability is from a government agency like IRS, it wise to pay up to avoid all future hassles.

If it was for me, I would have paid the liability to IRS to stay safe and out of the scanner. IRS can bring immense level of hassles so it is wise to keep them at bay!

[meanwords]

Cryptocurrency is already under the scanner of government agencies. They have associated it with everything which is illegal.

After reading the story of this couple I am in the conclusion that they are wrong on their part. I have no doubt about it. They should immediately do something to repay their tax.

If they need to sell their crypto assets then they should otherwise, the tax agency would suggest the government that cryptocurrency is a new illegal way for them to abet tax.

It does sound silly but, it will happen for sure.

They should do that and they should've done that in the first place because if I'm not mistaken, authorities know that they have a huge cryptocurrency asset which got revealed when it got reviewed again.

They are probably waiting for the price to pump but they probably predicted it incorrectly to the point that the due date to pay their liability came. I don't know how big this would get but it's still trouble for them.

[ChiBitCTy]

In summary:

- Alexander and Laura Strashny filed income tax return due in 2017, but unable to pay

- they sent IRS letters proposing to pay the liability in iinstallments over a period of 6 years

-  IRS received the proposal recorded it and put in in pending status

- As of December 2018, the outstanding liability + interest exceeded $1 million

- IRS sent petition notice "Intent to Seize Your Assets" and Notice of Your Right to a Hearing.

- Petitioners timely requested a CDPhearing, expressinginterest in an installment agreement (IA) and attaching a copyof their previously submitted Forms 433-A and 9465.  They did notcheck the boxindicating thattheycould not pay the balance, and they did notdispute theirunderlyingliability for 2017.

- SO review the case and saw that they have a huge cryptocurrency investment

- SO eceived from petitioners’ repre-sentative a copy of their 2018 tax return, which reported wages exceeding $200,000, and investment statements showing cryptocurrency assets valued over$7 million.  During the conference the SO noted that petitioners were currently
- 4-[*4] withdrawing$19,000 per month from their cryptocurrency account, and she asked why they could not liquidate or borrow against those assets in order to discharge their tax liabilityin full.

- Lawyers for the petitioners argue that they are unable to draw on their cryptocurrency account to pay their liability.

- On June 25, 2019, the IRS issued a notice of determination sustaining the proposed levy, rejecting petitioners’ request for an IA, and stating that “[l]evyaction is permitted 30 daysafter the rejection.

https://www.ustaxcourt.gov/USTCInOP/OpinionViewer.aspx?ID=12258


There's no denying that the petitioners have money to pay to settled their tax liabilities. But they can't withdraw it in a timely manner, maybe they are waiting for the price to go up and make profit to at least lessen the damage. What are your thoughts on this?

Are you willing to sell your crypto to pay our debts or just go on settle it in months or years?

The question you ask yourself is "Is it worth it to go in to debt and have a bad credit score because I simply want to keep my cryptocurrency, or avoid all that and pay my debts down".  Seems like a pretty obvious choice to me.

[gentlemand]

Weird little story. They're willing to attract the ire of the most vindictive government agency in the world for the sake of mad gainz that may never arrive?

They're already withdrawing crypto and have offered no reason why they can't withdraw more. If I were the IRS I'd nail them to the wall.

In future there are going to be many more cases like this. The 'I took a risk so I shouldn't have to pay tax' or 'it's on the internet so it shouldn't be taxed' crew are going to get some harsh lessons in The Man not giving a fuck about what you would like to happen vs what actually will happen.

[dothebeats]

It's one of those cases wherein a simple solution can be made but is being evaded for unknown purposes. I don't know why the couple just can't be done with all the trouble and all these legal stuff by paying what they owed. And $1M in tax liabilities? Who in their sane mind would even get it that high when they could have settled their dues yearly? The IRS has every right to demand payment, especially if it deemed that the party in debt has the capability to pay it in one instance. If they are withdrawing $19k a month for whatever reason there is, why can't they withdraw even more?

This is something to be anticipated.

[7788bitcoin]

There's no denying that the petitioners have money to pay to settled their tax liabilities. But they can't withdraw it in a timely manner, maybe they are waiting for the price to go up and make profit to at least lessen the damage. What are your thoughts on this?

Are you willing to sell your crypto to pay our debts or just go on settle it in months or years?

There is nothing strange in a situation like this, they owe money to the IRS and they have assets in cryptocurrency over $7 million and since they disclosed their assets to the authorities they are bound to pay the amount one way or the other and they cannot expect them to wait till the price of their asset reach a certain level so that they could earn the profit they desired. It is better to pay the money they owe rather than getting into trouble with them.

[serjent05]

There's no denying that the petitioners have money to pay to settled their tax liabilities. But they can't withdraw it in a timely manner, maybe they are waiting for the price to go up and make profit to at least lessen the damage. What are your thoughts on this?

Are you willing to sell your crypto to pay our debts or just go on settle it in months or years?

One thing is probably the reason here, they have no intention in paying their tax.  I believe they decided to not to withdraw their cryptocurrency to pay for their tax thinking that it will double in value and possibly to lessen the losses from this investment.

Anyway, I hate troubles so yes I am willing to sell my crypto to pay my debt but if it is possible I'll go on settling it in months or years.  Who doesn't want to wait for a crypto investment to go up ?

There's no denying that the petitioners have money to pay to settled their tax liabilities. But they can't withdraw it in a timely manner, maybe they are waiting for the price to go up and make profit to at least lessen the damage. What are your thoughts on this?

Are you willing to sell your crypto to pay our debts or just go on settle it in months or years?

There is nothing strange in a situation like this, they owe money to the IRS and they have assets in cryptocurrency over $7 million and since they disclosed their assets to the authorities they are bound to pay the amount one way or the other and they cannot expect them to wait till the price of their asset reach a certain level so that they could earn the profit they desired. It is better to pay the money they owe rather than getting into trouble with them.

Indeed, institution doesn't care for people, all they care is the agreement between them and the law governing the situation.  They won't wait for anything but the implementation of the law.

[odolvlobo]

There's no denying that the petitioners have money to pay to settled their tax liabilities. But they can't withdraw it in a timely manner, maybe they are waiting for the price to go up and make profit to at least lessen the damage. What are your thoughts on this?

Are you willing to sell your crypto to pay our debts or just go on settle it in months or years?

It seems pretty clear to me that this has little to do with cryptocurrency. They simply are doing whatever they can to avoid paying $1 million dollars to the government. Wouldn't you? They won't win, but at least they tried.

[Ulven]

There's no denying that the petitioners have money to pay to settled their tax liabilities. But they can't withdraw it in a timely manner, maybe they are waiting for the price to go up and make profit to at least lessen the damage. What are your thoughts on this?

Are you willing to sell your crypto to pay our debts or just go on settle it in months or years?

It seems pretty clear to me that this has little to do with cryptocurrency. They simply are doing whatever they can to avoid paying $1 million dollars to the government. Wouldn't you? They won't win, but at least they tried.

Yes, this was a failed attempt by the couple, You cannot cheat the IRS especially if you have enough money.
I think that the couple are trying to gain some time, until the market thrives and makes some profits, then they go to the interest and pay.

[carlfebz2]

There's no denying that the petitioners have money to pay to settled their tax liabilities. But they can't withdraw it in a timely manner, maybe they are waiting for the price to go up and make profit to at least lessen the damage. What are your thoughts on this?

Are you willing to sell your crypto to pay our debts or just go on settle it in months or years?

It seems pretty clear to me that this has little to do with cryptocurrency. They simply are doing whatever they can to avoid paying $1 million dollars to the government. Wouldn't you? They won't win, but at least they tried.

We know the fact that its really hard to oppose the government and if you do force yourself that way then you know that they can fucked you up hard in legal way which you cant really escape from that specially when law is on the line.

$1M tax liability is insane but its better to pay it off and stay out of the radar yet they are capable on doing so.Its really hard on their part though yet theyve been waiting for such increase but
if you are into this kind of problem then you wont really have any choice.

No matter how long and make reasons, you would still end up on the same line which is to pay on what you owe.

[pixie85]

@Baofeng I’m really baffled as their tax liability was just 1 million plus interest, and they had over $7 million in crypto assets then why didn’t they sell off their crypto’s and clear their dues?, unless they had no real intention of paying their dues which is really shameful considering the fact that they had the required funds to pay off their dues.

Are you saying it's a shame not to pay taxes? I haven't heard that one before

They are rich and have enough money to pay and even after paying they are going to have 10 times more than most people since the average American family has almost no savings just loans but does it mean we should accpt the government is stealing from them?

Many of you say it's all fine because they have money. What if it were you? The tax man will first take from the rich and then from the poor, he doesn't care.

[vapourminer]

Are you willing to sell your crypto to pay our debts or just go on settle it in months or years?

when i withdraw to fiat i pull an extra 20% or so to keep aside for taxes. i stick it in a CD or something, just so i dont touch it. tax time i cash it out and pays the man my taxes.

[Wexnident]

Baffling indeed. I mean, they still have over $6m in crypto assets if they ever decide to pay their liabilities, so I don't really see a reason why not? Plus, the decision to be made is based on the "now" and not the future after all. Sure, we can invest in our future all we want and all of that, but only if we're on the safe for the present. At the very least, what I see is that it's not that they "aren't" able to withdraw but they "don't" want to withdraw their crypto funds. If the IRS actually approved the Petition before, they could've argued that it's in the agreement but sadly they didn't.

Are you saying it's a shame not to pay taxes? I haven't heard that one before

They are rich and have enough money to pay and even after paying they are going to have 10 times more than most people since the average American family has almost no savings just loans but does it mean we should accpt the government is stealing from them?

Many of you say it's all fine because they have money. What if it were you? The tax man will first take from the rich and then from the poor, he doesn't care.

Well, it IS an agreement. Whether it be stealing or not, the moment they applied for a tax return but failed to pay it, they were bound by the agreement to pay the said amount + interest in the time frame that they didn't pay.

[crwth]

They were able to withdraw $19000 a month with no economic hardships, according to the T.C. Memo and they still didn't do it? I think that's the problem we are facing now with cryptocurrencies. According to the memo as well, they can pay but still didn't pay the liabilities. They chose not to do so; that's the start of the problem. What they did is that they skipped the part where the government collects the tax, and the government wants that piece of the pie.

[amishmanish]

As a non-US human,i just want to ask that how exactly do these people rake up such liabilities. By natural law, any tax liability can only arise from an actual gain from an investment. So how do they go from setting up and investment that is worth "1 Million in taxes" and then going back to a stage where they supposedly withdraw 19k per month from crypto account to fund themselves.
That kind of financial mismanagement sounds kindda insane. Business gone bankrupt means you get to file for bankruptcy etc.

While that liability itself is hard to understand, trying to evade it even though you can pay off the taxman is plain stupid at best and fraudulent at worst.

[squatter]

As a non-US human,i just want to ask that how exactly do these people rake up such liabilities. By natural law, any tax liability can only arise from an actual gain from an investment. So how do they go from setting up and investment that is worth "1 Million in taxes" and then going back to a stage where they supposedly withdraw 19k per month from crypto account to fund themselves.
That kind of financial mismanagement sounds kindda insane.

The liability stems from 2017. They obviously sold a lot of cryptocurrency that year to have incurred a $1.1 million tax bill. They may have lost a significant amount in early 2018 -- after the market crashed -- and opted not to pay their 2017 taxes, expecting that the IRS would approve a long term payment plan. In the meantime, they probably used their remaining capital to reinvest -- which is likely why they are sitting on $7 million worth of cryptocurrency now. They may be waiting until they can liquidate at long term capital gain rates rather than short term rates.

They essentially used the IRS as a backer for their investments. Now the IRS wants their money. They'll get it too. Legally, the couple has no legs to stand on. The IRS can approve or deny payment plans at their discretion. If a taxpayer doesn't pay on time and the IRS doesn't approve a payment plan, they can put a levy on the taxpayer's assets:

An IRS levy permits the legal seizure of your property to satisfy a tax debt. It can garnish wages, take money in your bank or other financial account, seize and sell your vehicle(s), real estate and other personal property.

Personal property includes digital currency.

I hate the IRS but I wouldn't mess with them, either. Good luck to these people.