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Skybuck
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November 22, 2011, 02:44:56 PM
 #1

Hello,

This is my first bitcoin version 5.0 address (I also have one bitcoin version 4.0 address from yesterday, me newbie):

19qJYNu7ABuEtxFzXKL4sRCZQYiRMjjvz5

Send me something ?!?

What's the minimum somebody could send me ?

Maybe 0.00000001 ?

^ 8 digits behind comma/point ?

Or only 7 ?

Bye,
  Skybuck.
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ovidiusoft
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November 22, 2011, 03:05:46 PM
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There is no difference between addresses used by v0.4.0 and v0.5.0 software. Get come free coins here and have fun: http://dailybitcoins.org/
Skybuck
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November 22, 2011, 03:15:32 PM
 #3

Ok I tried (send button turned green, said it would bunch up a number of transactions to reduce transaction fees), I hope I don't get scammed ! Wink =D

Why is this sending out free bitcoins ? Wink

Perhaps for mining efforts ? Wink
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November 22, 2011, 03:19:13 PM
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Ok I tried (send button turned green, said it would bunch up a number of transactions to reduce transaction fees), I hope I don't get scammed ! Wink =D
Why is this sending out free bitcoins ? Wink
Perhaps for mining efforts ? Wink

No, the site is supported by ads. It will take a few hours to get your coins, they don't send immediately. You can get free coins from them daily, and the amount is enough to play around and learn how the system works.
Skybuck
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November 22, 2011, 03:21:11 PM
 #5

Ok, I see now, pretty cool ! Wink =D

This reminds me of that million dollar pixel website, where people could buy 1 or multiple pixels to place their ads Wink

But there could still be a sanister plot behind dailyads... like collecting ip's and perhaps linking them to bitcoin addresses ?! Wink Smiley

Perhaps then later when bitcoin becomes populair, this data could be marketted to sellers, to try and figure out who bought what, and try to sell them more, once the ip is connected to a person... like maybe e-mail.
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November 22, 2011, 03:39:13 PM
 #6

Ok, I see now, pretty cool ! Wink =D

This reminds me of that million dollar pixel website, where people could buy 1 or multiple pixels to place their ads Wink

But there could still be a sanister plot behind dailyads... like collecting ip's and perhaps linking them to bitcoin addresses ?! Wink Smiley

Perhaps then later when bitcoin becomes populair, this data could be marketted to sellers, to try and figure out who bought what, and try to sell them more, once the ip is connected to a person... like maybe e-mail.

Holy Christ. Someone with a brain. Welcome!

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November 22, 2011, 03:47:22 PM
 #7

Ok, I see now, pretty cool ! Wink =D

This reminds me of that million dollar pixel website, where people could buy 1 or multiple pixels to place their ads Wink

But there could still be a sanister plot behind dailyads... like collecting ip's and perhaps linking them to bitcoin addresses ?! Wink Smiley

Perhaps then later when bitcoin becomes populair, this data could be marketted to sellers, to try and figure out who bought what, and try to sell them more, once the ip is connected to a person... like maybe e-mail.

Well just use that address once and then use a new address - no one is going to worry about your free 0.005btc. Take your 0.005btc, wait 10 years and buy a yatch (or a sandwich - or a grain of sand)
Skybuck
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November 22, 2011, 04:55:26 PM
 #8

Hmm,

I was just wondering if bitcoin version 5.00 created a new address or simply loaded the old one from version 4.00.

Fortunately it loads the old one. First it said: "can't get a lock" when 4.00 started after 5.00 was shutdown, but that was probably because 5.0 takes a while to shutdown... maybe writing stuff to a file or something.

After a few seconds 4.0 did start up successfully and it seems to be the same bitcoin address.

So I only have 1 bit coin address, not 2 as I previously wrote Wink Smiley
Skybuck
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November 23, 2011, 09:54:38 AM
 #9

Ok,

I have received 0.001 probably from the advertising website.

The weird thing is BitCoin 0.5 doesn't show from which bit coin address it was received ?!?

Is that normal ?

I can see the transaction on the web though with block explorer...:

http://blockexplorer.com/address/171Eu2y37sM1WjT1PTLtAuaTTPQCpnkaib

Also in the transaction details themselfes, it says: "not yet redeemed" what does that mean ?

http://blockexplorer.com/tx/26d3d2bcf6eefbeb4e76e0d671b00af6c0cd709ac3930f239405064911c5e1b2
Therilith
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November 23, 2011, 11:34:05 AM
 #10

Ok,

I have received 0.001 probably from the advertising website.

The weird thing is BitCoin 0.5 doesn't show from which bit coin address it was received ?!?

Is that normal ?
Yes. There wouldn't be much point in seeing the address of whoever sent it to you because the user/company could have hundreds of them. No point in trying to keep track of them all.
That's one of the reasons why people usually create a new address for every entity they want money from. If somebody sends BTC to an address that you only gave to one guy, you'll know where it's from.


Also in the transaction details themselfes, it says: "not yet redeemed" what does that mean ?
AFAIK, that just means that the recipient (you) hasn't spent them yet.

Money is power. If you would like to transfer some of your power to me (making yourself weaker and me stronger), use the following address: 1PoFSpghmpsebfwZwnu5PPmmv2u9uYgJKo
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November 23, 2011, 11:23:03 PM
 #11

I send you a message on this threat.
You happy now?
Skybuck
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November 24, 2011, 08:01:17 PM
 #12

Ok,

I just noticed there is a minimum transaction fee of 0.0005 in the bitcoin 0.5 client.

I wanted to send 0.00000001 to myself as a test to see if it really works, and to have fun on the monitor and block explorer or something ! Wink =D

So I ended up paying much more to other guys then myself ! Sad Wink =D

So my question is basically:

Is this minimum transaction fee really required for bitcoin ? or is it possible to send small values without paying transaction fees ? Maybe by using a different client ?!?

This might have implications for the future when BitCoins become worth 1.000.000 dollars !

0.0005 of a million dollars = 500 dollars !

I think 500 dollars is a bit too much to pay for a transaction fee !

Also the ammount I ended up sending to myself would have been only:

0.00000001 of  a million dollars which would be: 0.01 dollar ( 1 dollar cent ) !


So I just ended up paying 500 dollars to transfer 0.01 dollar ( 1 dollar cent ) !

Well in the future with the current client system I can forget about micro payments and transactions ! At least with bitcoin 0.5 ?!

It will be interesting to see how people react to such ridicilous high fees !

Possible conclusion: Maybe micro-transactions are a pipe-dream !

Because the ammount of harddisk space to store the transaction costs more than the transaction is worth itself, except for the fee, but nobody is going to pay a high fee like that.

And there is also an unfairness in this system, only the miners get a share of the fee. All other clients which store the data on their harddisks get nothing !

So perhaps there should be a "storage fee" as well. Which would then go to all clients storing data on their drives ! Wink

Except there could be a problem with it, because this would cause even more micro-transactions, unless there is some easy way to make "mass-micro-payments-to-select-groups-of-people/acounts".

Perhaps some kind of "bitset transaction", where each bit represents an account. Perhaps this could be a bit pattern in a tree, with the leaves of the tree being active clients at the moment of transaction and/or storage.

Or perhaps each client which passes on the transaction to somebody else, can remove the previous client from the transaction, and add himself to the transaction, but then there is a problem of different storage/archives/history, but perhaps there could be a way to allow that, or perhaps not. As long as perhaps something remains the same or so, perhaps a hash collision for a simple hash algorithm, which the storage provided must use. Then again if it's too easy perhaps others can then go back in time and fake it too easy, but then again maybe not because of the block. Well whatever.

I think it's clear that there must also be some "storage fee and incentive" otherwise this gonna suck long term, with crazy micro transactions, which actually cost more to store then they are worth, which would be weird, and be a burden on the storage providers.

Perhaps storage providers should "register" themselfes among a p2p network, to get an easy/small bit pattern assigned to them, which can then be used somehow or so.


This leaves bandwidth fees, which might also be considered... perhaps I should read that document of microsoft a bit closer, I already scanned it a little bit, but it does sound kinda complex.

Oh well...

I look forward to seeing my micro transaction arrive ! Wink =D

Also the bitcoin monitor does show that it's still somehow possible to do transactions without fees ?!? Or perhaps I miss-understood ! Wink Smiley
Skybuck
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November 24, 2011, 08:12:38 PM
 #13

Let's see what the consequence would be of a storage fee...

For example: 0.00000001 bts per byte.

This would mean in the scenerio of a million dollars per bitcoin, each byte would be worth 1 dollar cent.

A terrabyte would then be worth: 1.099.511.627.776 dollar cents.

Which would be pretty much insane.

Even if this is divided by a million dollars, so it goes back to 1 dollar equaling 1 bit coin it would be:

1.099.511,627.776 dollar cents.

Which would still be very expensive for just 1 terrabyte.

Everybody storing bitcoin data would then become a milionair lol ! Wink Smiley

So I think from this very easy thought exercise it's already clear that only 8 digits behind the comma is not sufficient at all.

This would need to be double to 16 at least.

Even 16 would probably not be enough real soon, as the data skyrockets passed 16 terrabyte.

Binary fractions work like:
1/2
1/4
1/8   = roughly 0.1
1/16
1/32
1/64 = roughly 0.01
1/128
1/256
1/512
1/1024 = roughly 0.001
1/2048
1/4096
1/8192
1/16K = roughly 0.0001

and so forth... what we are looking for is something like:

0.01234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789

^ This should be roughly enough for a while, just a wild guess.

That's a BIGGGG binary fraction number let's see how big:

log10(101234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789)/log(2) = 102 bits for fractions.

64 bit doubles have about 48 bits or 52 or 56 bits of fractional precision or something, so not even close enough for this number so it can last a while.

So it seems pretty clear that for the future computer systems will require 128 bit floating point numbers, maybe even 256 bit floating point numbers.

The more bits the better ! Wink
Confounded Bridge
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November 25, 2011, 01:21:45 AM
 #14

Send me something ?!?

Code:
        / \
        |\_/|
        |---|
        |   |
        |   |
      _ |=-=| _
  _  / \|   |/ \
 / \|   |   |   ||\
|   |   |   |   | \>
|   |   |   |   |   \
| -   -   -   - |)   )
|                   /
 \                 /
  \               /
   \             /
    \           /
     |         |

SCROLL DOWN

           ___________    ____                                          
    ______/   \__//   \__/____\                            
  _/   \_/  :           //____\\                            
 /|      :  :  ..      /        \                        
| |     ::     ::      \        /                            
| |     :|     ||     \ \______/                              
| |     ||     ||      |\  /  |                                    
 \|     ||     ||      |   / | \    
  |     ||     ||      |  / /_\ \
  | ___ || ___ ||      | /  /    \    
   \_-_/  \_-_/ | ____ |/__/      \  
                _\_--_/    \      /  
               /____             /  
              /     \           /    
              \______\_________/    


Did you get what I just sent you?

TOO GD funny...roflmao
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November 25, 2011, 01:33:00 AM
 #15

Send me something ?!?

Code:
        / \
        |\_/|
        |---|
        |   |
        |   |
      _ |=-=| _
  _  / \|   |/ \
 / \|   |   |   ||\
|   |   |   |   | \>
|   |   |   |   |   \
| -   -   -   - |)   )
|                   /
 \                 /
  \               /
   \             /
    \           /
     |         |

SCROLL DOWN

           ___________    ____                                          
    ______/   \__//   \__/____\                            
  _/   \_/  :           //____\\                            
 /|      :  :  ..      /        \                        
| |     ::     ::      \        /                            
| |     :|     ||     \ \______/                              
| |     ||     ||      |\  /  |                                    
 \|     ||     ||      |   / | \    
  |     ||     ||      |  / /_\ \
  | ___ || ___ ||      | /  /    \    
   \_-_/  \_-_/ | ____ |/__/      \  
                _\_--_/    \      /  
               /____             /  
              /     \           /    
              \______\_________/    


Did you get what I just sent you?

TOO GD funny...roflmao

What happened to my post?

Confounded Bridge
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November 25, 2011, 02:13:59 AM
 #16

Send me something ?!?

Code:
        / \
        |\_/|
        |---|
        |   |
        |   |
      _ |=-=| _
  _  / \|   |/ \
 / \|   |   |   ||\
|   |   |   |   | \>
|   |   |   |   |   \
| -   -   -   - |)   )
|                   /
 \                 /
  \               /
   \             /
    \           /
     |         |

SCROLL DOWN

           ___________    ____                                          
    ______/   \__//   \__/____\                            
  _/   \_/  :           //____\\                            
 /|      :  :  ..      /        \                        
| |     ::     ::      \        /                            
| |     :|     ||     \ \______/                              
| |     ||     ||      |\  /  |                                    
 \|     ||     ||      |   / | \    
  |     ||     ||      |  / /_\ \
  | ___ || ___ ||      | /  /    \    
   \_-_/  \_-_/ | ____ |/__/      \  
                _\_--_/    \      /  
               /____             /  
              /     \           /    
              \______\_________/    


Did you get what I just sent you?

TOO GD funny...roflmao

What happened to my post?

IDK - i didn't do it!!   :p
Skybuck
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November 25, 2011, 08:18:51 PM
 #17

The 0.00000001 I sent myself, still has not arrived, any idea why ?
BobTheBeast
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November 27, 2011, 09:13:38 PM
 #18

Hello,

This is my first bitcoin version 5.0 address (I also have one bitcoin version 4.0 address from yesterday, me newbie):

19qJYNu7ABuEtxFzXKL4sRCZQYiRMjjvz5

Send me something ?!?

What's the minimum somebody could send me ?

Maybe 0.00000001 ?

^ 8 digits behind comma/point ?

Or only 7 ?

Bye,
  Skybuck.
Check this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=53042.0

18zGoV1kYEgpe4odrkmuG6yH5GHsihi6zB
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