If I loaned you 1 bitcoin today, how could i expect you to repay if value rises?

[DoomDumas]

1 BTC

I i loan 100$ to a friend.. I expect him to repay me 100$ even if it loses lot of purchasing power..

[1715078364]

1715078364

[1715078364]

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[1715078364]

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[boumalo]

There was a huge website that allowed people to loan/lend money

Didn't it shut down after BTC price went up in November?

To get a loan in BTC you need an alt coin collateral nowadays

[jambola2]

If you loan 1BTC today at $560 (as I write) then when the value rises you should expect a profit.
I don't understand what is so hard?

Also, if you are expecting an interest fee then add that too.

EDIT: Your biggest concern should be if the price drops.

You and him are not considering the same aspect.

His perspective : He takes a loan of 1 bitcoin and sells the bitcoin for 600$ , uses it. Over the next 10 years , he saves up 600$. He tries to return , but the 1 bitcoin he borrowed is now worth 6000$ and he has to pay 10x.

In this case , BTC itself is just loaned on a long term.

Your perspective : You take a loan of 600 $ and use it to buy 1 bitcoin. Over the next 10 years , the price rises to 6000$. You sell the bitcoin and return 600$ to your friend.

Here , even if the medium of Bitcoin is used for the loan , fiat is the truly lent.
Many BTC lending websites allow you to peg your loan to USD , such that it is basically a fiat loan and not a Bitcoin loan.

In case #1 , you need to repay 10x the value , because you own fiat
In case #2 , you need to repay one tenth the value because you own Bitcoin.

He was asking about the first scenario.

[5thStreetResearch]

enter a legally binding contract. DUH

[ryanmnercer]

Debt is slavery, if you give me a dollar, don't ever expect it back. There's a reason bitcoin transactions are one-way, just like cash.

If I'm so poor that I need to borrow money to meet my needs, my society has FAILED at both equality and solidarity.

http://strikedebt.org/

Did I mention fuck capitalism?

Because fuck capitalism.

Debt is freedom. Last October I borrowed about 5k$ to start my business, by the end of the year I'd repaid every cent, this year in 3 months I've completely replaced the take-home from my day job via my small business.

Please, tell me how debt is slavery. Debt is neither good nor bad, being responsible or irresponsible is what matters. If you take on a bunch of debt to buy junk you don't need and can't afford... it's bad. If you borrow to start a business, buy a house or get a (useful) education in a (profitable) trade debt is freedom long-term.

[keithers]

Short term: 1BTC should just be paid back 1BTC, unless it was a loan and interest was expected (I don't know how much interest you could justifiably charge for that small of a short term loan).   

Long term:  This is a bit more complicated, so just pay it back quickly or get it paid back quickly.  If someone needed to borrow $550 or whatever, and did not have that money themselves...you can guarantee that they cannot pay back $10,000 if BTC were to be that high in the long term...

[ArticMine]

Debt is slavery, if you give me a dollar, don't ever expect it back. There's a reason bitcoin transactions are one-way, just like cash.

If I'm so poor that I need to borrow money to meet my needs, my society has FAILED at both equality and solidarity.

http://strikedebt.org/

Did I mention fuck capitalism?

Because fuck capitalism.

Debt is freedom. Last October I borrowed about 5k$ to start my business, by the end of the year I'd repaid every cent, this year in 3 months I've completely replaced the take-home from my day job via my small business.

Please, tell me how debt is slavery. Debt is neither good nor bad, being responsible or irresponsible is what matters. If you take on a bunch of debt to buy junk you don't need and can't afford... it's bad. If you borrow to start a business, buy a house or get a (useful) education in a (profitable) trade debt is freedom long-term.

It depends on the kind of debt. If the debt is to purchase an asset with a high chance of appreciation in terms of the borrowed money or to start a profitable business then it can lead to freedom, provided of course that it is done responsibly. As for student debt I would say that unless the debt is for an education with a very high earning potential it is in most cases a bad idea. Virtually all consumer debt with the exception of home mortgages is a very bad idea and yes is a form of slavery.

As for borrowing bitcoin, unless one has a masochistic desire for a brutal bankruptcy, is an absolutely terrible idea.

[Meuh6879]

you can't loan 1 BTC in a FIAT value.
you can loan a 1 BTC for 1,2 BTC after 1 year for example (0,2 BTC of fee for the loan contract).

stop thinking about FIAT when you talk about BTC...

[BCmale]

you can't loan 1 BTC in a FIAT value.
you can loan a 1 BTC for 1,2 BTC after 1 year for example (0,2 BTC of fee for the loan contract).

stop thinking about FIAT when you talk about BTC...

This is exactly what I was thinking when reading this thread. Who the hell thinks in FIAT when giving a loan in BTC? Why make things so complicated? Just stick to the "KISS" rule... 

[boumalo]

Debt is slavery, if you give me a dollar, don't ever expect it back. There's a reason bitcoin transactions are one-way, just like cash.

If I'm so poor that I need to borrow money to meet my needs, my society has FAILED at both equality and solidarity.

http://strikedebt.org/

Did I mention fuck capitalism?

Because fuck capitalism.

Debt is freedom. Last October I borrowed about 5k$ to start my business, by the end of the year I'd repaid every cent, this year in 3 months I've completely replaced the take-home from my day job via my small business.

Please, tell me how debt is slavery. Debt is neither good nor bad, being responsible or irresponsible is what matters. If you take on a bunch of debt to buy junk you don't need and can't afford... it's bad. If you borrow to start a business, buy a house or get a (useful) education in a (profitable) trade debt is freedom long-term.

Debt to invest can be a bad or a good decision but debt to consume is almost never smart, even for a wedding or a much needed vacation

Debt to pay medical bills could be seem as an investment or a very needed thing to buy

[teukon]

If I loaned you 1.00000000 bitcoin's today, which has a value somewhere around the arbitrary number of whatever value $600 i really supposed to represent, With a 10 year term.

If bitcoin rises in dollar value over 10 years by a multiple of 10, or the dollar devalues by a factor of 10, how could I reasonably expect repayment of the original loan of 100 million satoshi's.

The volatility of the underlying currency is a risk that the borrower must bear.  This is one reason why stability is preferred.

If the price rose 10-fold over the next 10 years you couldn't then reasonably expect the borrower to repay you.  Practically nothing appreciates at that rate so you would fully expect default.

In the future, this exchange rate should become more stable.  As it does, bitcoin-denominated loans over long periods will become more feasible.

http://strikedebt.org/

Did I mention fuck capitalism?

Rather than trying to derail OP's thread: create a thread describing why you think Bitcoin and capitalism don't go hand in hand (economics section would be a good bet), describe the economic system you would prefer to see, and defend it's superiority.

[iluvpie60]

If I loaned you 1.00000000 bitcoin's today, which has a value somewhere around the arbitrary number of whatever value $600 i really supposed to represent, With a 10 year term.

If bitcoin rises in dollar value over 10 years by a multiple of 10, or the dollar devalues by a factor of 10, how could I reasonably expect repayment of the original loan of 100 million satoshi's.

Debt is slavery, if you give me a dollar, don't ever expect it back. There's a reason bitcoin transactions are one-way, just like cash.

If I'm so poor that I need to borrow money to meet my needs, my society has FAILED at both equality and solidarity.

http://strikedebt.org/

Did I mention fuck capitalism?

Because fuck capitalism.

lol jesus christ I can't believe people like you exist

That's what religious folk have been saying about atheists for a long, loooong time. Every day there are less religo-bots and more free-thinking, reasoned human beings.

Your time will come soon too, capitalist.

Good thing the United States isn't capitalist. Rofl idiot. Kill yourself.

[dooglus]

If I loaned you 1.00000000 bitcoin's today, which has a value somewhere around the arbitrary number of whatever value $600 i really supposed to represent, With a 10 year term.

If bitcoin rises in dollar value over 10 years by a multiple of 10, or the dollar devalues by a factor of 10, how could I reasonably expect repayment of the original loan of 100 million satoshi's.

If you loaned me 1 BTC today, I'd add it to the Just-Dice bankroll and over time it would almost certainly grow in BTC terms.  By keeping it in BTC we're immune from currency fluctuations.

[E.exchanger]

What I uderstand is that you want to get sure that you will be paid back equally with interest of course right is my suggestion will be if its a small time loand then u don't have to worry about it in long term loans decide the lending and payback amount in usd 

[mindfulmojo]

If I loaned you 1.00000000 bitcoin's today, which has a value somewhere around the arbitrary number of whatever value $600 i really supposed to represent, With a 10 year term.

If bitcoin rises in dollar value over 10 years by a multiple of 10, or the dollar devalues by a factor of 10, how could I reasonably expect repayment of the original loan of 100 million satoshi's.

Debt is slavery, if you give me a dollar, don't ever expect it back. There's a reason bitcoin transactions are one-way, just like cash.

If I'm so poor that I need to borrow money to meet my needs, my society has FAILED at both equality and solidarity.

http://strikedebt.org/

Did I mention fuck capitalism?

Because fuck capitalism.

lol jesus christ I can't believe people like you exist

That's what religious folk have been saying about atheists for a long, loooong time. Every day there are less religo-bots and more free-thinking, reasoned human beings.

Your time will come soon too, capitalist.

I'm more of an agnostic myself... the only true proof of the sublime / god I see is in synchronicity.

Anyways... actually most of the major religions consider usury wrong.

Modern interpretations do vary, however, as you can see in the state of the world today.

[Entropy-uc]

If I loaned you 1.00000000 bitcoin's today, which has a value somewhere around the arbitrary number of whatever value $600 i really supposed to represent, With a 10 year term.

If bitcoin rises in dollar value over 10 years by a multiple of 10, or the dollar devalues by a factor of 10, how could I reasonably expect repayment of the original loan of 100 million satoshi's.

If you loaned me 1 BTC today, I'd add it to the Just-Dice bankroll and over time it would almost certainly grow in BTC terms.  By keeping it in BTC we're immune from currency fluctuations.

History would suggest that over the long run, that bitcoin will be stolen or lost in some fashion.

Lending Bitcoin is a suckers game, and borrowing it is worse.

[theomar]

If the price rise by x10, I could repay you 0,7btc for 1 btc at most. But when the price rise ×10 and then fall 60% i could repay you 3 btc for 1btc at least if my orders do not intetact with the market (orders for 10-50 btc)

[jonald_fyookball]

A loan agreement could be thrown out by a court as unconscionable if it turned out there was exponential deflation

[FeedbackLoop]

A loan agreement could be thrown out by a court as unconscionable if it turned out there was exponential deflation

Utter bullshit! There is even a precedent:

http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2013/11/07/judge-orders-coinlab-to-pay-up-in-bitcoin/


Stop defending fraud already! If you took a loan in bitcoins that is because you operate in bitcoins in the Bitcoin economy or because you hedged your exposure to exchange rate accordingly like posted in the examples above. If you don't pay it in the amount of bitcoins agreed that is because you were deceiving with your financial dealings an that is the very definition of fraud (seriously, look it up).

[tzortz]

A loan agreement could be thrown out by a court as unconscionable if it turned out there was exponential deflation

Utter bullshit! There is even a precedent:

http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2013/11/07/judge-orders-coinlab-to-pay-up-in-bitcoin/


Stop defending fraud already! If you took a loan in bitcoins that is because you operate in bitcoins in the Bitcoin economy or because you hedged your exposure to exchange rate accordingly like posted in the examples above. If you don't pay it in the amount of bitcoins agreed that is because you were deceiving with your financial dealings an that is the very definition of fraud (seriously, look it up).

Nice post.