0

[eskider]

0

[mk4]

I mean, wherever there is market activity, there will be price impact. How high or how low the impact is, that's the question. And since it's safe to assume that miners need to sell their mined coins(at least some) to be able to pay for electricity, obviously, there will always be price impact from them(sell pressure).

[btc_angela]

We can't really blame miners for moving and transferring and eventually cashing it out and we can only speculate. As far as the impact, there could be an effect short term as there could be newbies panicking and selling out at as well. But as I have said, it will just be short term, if the price goes down, then there could be someone on the other side buying bitcoin. So if will negate the effect in the long run.

[OcTradism]

With bitcoin, nowadays miners are mostly join big mining pools and they mostly come from big mining farms. It is unrealistic for small bitcoin miners to survive through all market dumps. When small miners suffer enough pressure and temporary losses, they will give up and sell off their bitcoin. Fortunately, because they are small miners their impacts on price will insignificant.

Very contrasting to small miners, big miners, big farms, big pools have enough reserved funds to go and survive through market dumps. During dumps, they will use their reserved funds to pay for electricity costs and keep holding their bitcoins and wait till good price to sell and take profits.

Miners and mining activities have impacts on bitcoin, but it also relates to market manipulations too. What do you think of plans of miners to turn off their rigs and create massive waiting/ unconfirmed transactions on the network? Just to cause FUDs, and result in high transaction fees. They will get higher transaction fees while they will also get chances to buy back very cheap bitcoin. After 2 to 3 times of difficulty adjustments, from 28 to 42 days, they will turn on their rigs again. What's a plan.

[thesmallgod]

Then this might be opposite of what people thought post halving will be. We expect to see scarcity which further drives the price up. The situation might be true because miners will be at rush of maintaining their mining rig by selling out their mined assets. Not like before that they might consider holding for a long time. Reduction in mining fee makes it hard for them to sustain the rig. It might get better if a more sustainable ways of mining is explored.

[Darker45]

What's the big deal?

Miners are probably not paying their regular mining expenses in Bitcoin. Their electricity consumption, which forms probably the largest daily expense of their operation, has to be settled in fiat most probably and so they need to regularly let go of their Bitcoin.

The miners are major players in the market. And they are the last persons who would want the price to fall as that would mean losses to their businesses. And so when they are selling heavily it must somehow follow that their assessment says there is sufficient demand that could easily absorb the selling pressure.

I believe the miners won't dump their BTC just like that, oblivious of what it could possibly cause to the market.

[20kevin20]

Although the price may be driven by miners too, don't forget that miners selling is actually a good thing for Bitcoin. If they mine and never sell, they'd accumulate in their own wallets which centralizes the network more. While that'd also mean less supply on the markets, if you put that next to the centralization you'd find out it's not really worth it to let the latter win.

I don't mind miners selling their mined coins. After all, without them, the network cannot exist and they have to live, pay rent and utilities too.

[mk4]

Although the price may be driven by miners too, don't forget that miners selling is actually a good thing for Bitcoin. If they mine and never sell, they'd accumulate in their own wallets which centralizes the network more.

Wait, how is miners not selling the mined coins going to centralize the network? How much coins the miners hold doesn't matter, as hashrate is the one that matters with proof of work.

[20kevin20]

Wait, how is miners not selling the mined coins going to centralize the network? How much coins the miners hold doesn't matter, as hashrate is the one that matters with proof of work.

If they sell, chances are multiple people will get to purchase the coins one farm has mined - hence, the coin distribution gets better (and there's an increased coin circulation too). If a large farm does not sell any, don't they basically store a lot of coins and start posing an incremental risk over the market the more they mine? It's one of the reasons for which some are worried Satoshi may own a million BTC. Maybe there's a better word that fits in my previous reply than "network" but I guess you get the point.

[davis196]

What recent price action?The Bitcoin price went down from 9,2K USD to 9,1K USD.
This is a ridiculously low price volatility and you are talking about price impacts.
Yes,the miners could have impacted the June 23 price drop.And so what?They can sell their mined coins,in order to pay their bills.I can't be mad at them for selling their coins and creating a bearish market.
If the price is still low,there's chance for more people to join the crypto world by buying cheap Bitcoins.
The crypto traders could benefit from both bearish and bullish market.

[mk4]

If they sell, chances are multiple people will get to purchase the coins one farm has mined - hence, the coin distribution gets better (and there's an increased coin circulation too). If a large farm does not sell any, don't they basically store a lot of coins and start posing an incremental risk over the market the more they mine? It's one of the reasons for which some are worried Satoshi may own a million BTC. Maybe there's a better word that fits in my previous reply than "network" but I guess you get the point.

Well a better wording would be that miners selling their coins would be better for coin distribution like you said, but definitely not decentralization because that's a very different thing.

I don't see how mining farms holding bigger amounts of bitcoin an incremental risk though. Sure they could drop bitcoin's price if they dump huge amounts in one go, but that's the free markets working normally and as it should.

[pooya87]

“It is tough to say definitively, but it appears as though the miners' actions are having a direct, immediate impact on price,” Alfred told Cointelegraph on July 1.

“This is especially evident during outlier events like on the 23rd, where we saw miners offload >300% more BTC than they mined that day,” he added, referencing June 23 activity.

i never believe this type of analysis that comes with zero proof specially when they come from an analysis company that is trying to advertise their business as a blockchain analyzer!
for example in this case it is only showing us the price move and an arbitrary chart with some lines showing miners moving coins (MRI) but doesn't say anything about how they came up with a way that could show them those coins that moved by miners (the coinbase transactions paid to the miners from the mining pool) is actually being sold. if i had to guess i'd say the coins were simply moved from one wallet to another, maybe even mixed for more privacy (miner connecting to the pool doesn't have privacy) and now this analysis company is calling THAT selling.

do miners affect bitcoin price? of course they do. they are a part of the market participants and their actions affects the market.
is it direct effect? not anymore than any other investor's actions.

[Wexnident]

Yes, and what is anyone going to do about it? Nothing. Miners have basically the same rights as any type of person out there that aims to buy and sell Bitcoin. Whether it be now or later, there's really no reason to rationalize and explain if Miners can impact Bitcoin. Miners aren't some special kind of human being, they're basically the same as any type of person out there.

Miners hoarding Bitcoin and dumping it all in one moment to the market is actually nothing weird, with how the Bitcoin market works. With nothing but the basis of supply and demand governing it, we can naturally expect a few parties to hoard Bitcoin in the long term, and I doubt Satoshi didn't foresee such an idea. If the price crashes due to such reactions, it'd naturally climb back up due to the same idea governing it, as long as the idea of supply and demand stays as its core, it would climb back up naturally.

[reap_chain]

I am sure miners have always influenced the market. Whenever a large number of coins are sold or bought, this can affect the price. And it can be not only miners.

[kryptqnick]

I mean, wherever there is market activity, there will be price impact. How high or how low the impact is, that's the question. And since it's safe to assume that miners need to sell their mined coins(at least some) to be able to pay for electricity, obviously, there will always be price impact from them(sell pressure).

I don't know, I don't feel sure about this. Yes, miners have some coins and definitely sell them. But especially given the recent halving, are miners mining enough coins to make a difference for the price on the global market? Moreover, don't they do it, like, all the time? Then it's unclear why the op is talking about miners impacting the current situation rather than, as you say, every situation. Miners do have some impact, of course, just like other people who buy or sell Bitcoins. But is their force significant and able to cause drastic changes? I tend to think it's not the case.

[mk4]

I don't know, I don't feel sure about this. Yes, miners have some coins and definitely sell them. But especially given the recent halving, are miners mining enough coins to make a difference for the price on the global market? Moreover, don't they do it, like, all the time? Then it's unclear why the op is talking about miners impacting the current situation rather than, as you say, every situation. Miners do have some impact, of course, just like other people who buy or sell Bitcoins. But is their force significant and able to cause drastic changes? I tend to think it's not the case.

Yes, the sell pressure they're giving the markets surely dropped significantly due to the quite recent halving, but that's still 900 bitcoin being generated per day. While that amount being sold per day wouldn't necessarily like crash the markets(assuming actually all 900 are being sold), it still has a relevant amount of sell pressure especially noting that this is an everyday occurrence.

[Jating]

What recent price action?The Bitcoin price went down from 9,2K USD to 9,1K USD.
This is a ridiculously low price volatility and you are talking about price impacts.
Yes,the miners could have impacted the June 23 price drop.And so what?They can sell their mined coins,in order to pay their bills.I can't be mad at them for selling their coins and creating a bearish market.
If the price is still low,there's chance for more people to join the crypto world by buying cheap Bitcoins.
The crypto traders could benefit from both bearish and bullish market.

I really don't understand in why every drop in price, we have to find the reasoning. Maybe it was really the timing if indeed the miners are really selling off their bitcoins to pay their electricity or cost of maintaining their gear. This is the economics of bitcoin and I do hope that every one understand how it works. Although we can say that the price have impacted, let's look at the bright side of seeing the price going ~$9k and take the opportunity to get back and buy some. So there is really that benefit seeing the price going down, it's just a matter on how you are going to take advantage from it.

[gentlemand]

Yes, the sell pressure they're giving the markets surely dropped significantly due to the quite recent halving, but that's still 900 bitcoin being generated per day. While that amount being sold per day wouldn't necessarily like crash the markets(assuming actually all 900 are being sold), it still has a relevant amount of sell pressure especially noting that this is an everyday occurrence.

OTC is only growing just as the amount of coins being made is going down. I presume all the talk of Grayscale buying every coin mined can be picked apart easily, but there's no shortage of other players.

Miner dumping was no doubt a prime factor in 2011/12/13 and beyond. If you're a miner who has to dump on an exchange by this point you're doing it wrong or are socially maladjusted and are too frightened to contact anyone to sell directly.

[E-wallet.io]

A lot of people want to mine Bitcoin and there is a big competition between the miners. But after halving it became unprofitable to mine bitcoin in many regions. Price of Bitcoin must raise but it does not raise.

[Debonaire217]

We can't really blame miners for moving and transferring and eventually cashing it out and we can only speculate. As far as the impact, there could be an effect short term as there could be newbies panicking and selling out at as well. But as I have said, it will just be short term, if the price goes down, then there could be someone on the other side buying bitcoin. So if will negate the effect in the long run.

Basically many will speculate that the short term impact of bitcoin halving is now occurring, this is by means of miners either quitting or selling bitcoins at higher prices which is IMO is not true, but what is true is the actions of newbies which is by far, being affected by the hype so the tendency is it affects the market in short term.

Though everyone and everything affects bitcoin's price, the fluctuations of demands caused by events affect the fluctuation of the bitcoin's market price.