Frustration with Investors- Why is it so hard to take Bitcoin mainstream?

[Yankee (BitInstant)]

As I sit here in the SoHo House in lower Manhattan, I cant help but express some frustration in taking Bitcoin and its economy more mainstream. A prospective investor just left, and I'm finishing up a seed round of funding. Although I've done this before with my other companies, the ratio of prospective investors to actual investors is much higher here than in any other industry, which means I have to meet more investors than I would for another type of business. Previously, If I had met 10 investors, at least 2-3 would invest, but with Bitcoin that number is much higher.

I've come to a realization that I'm not just pitching my company, but rather pitching the whole industry of Bitcoin. Not only that, but most time spent on meetings IS explaining, pitching, and trying to have them understand why Bitcoin will become (investing with me, of course) a multi billion dollar industry.

My initial obstacles was explaining how this would grow, how can we use Bitcoin in the mainstream world? Obviously as a merchant solution the answer is simple and Bitcoin is very appealing to adult entertainment sites, gambling and eventually larger retailers.

Right, Growth. Thats the key word.

So I prepare documents and business models and explain how much Bitcoin will make, how much it has made and its mistakes and how the community has fixed them. I have to explain the MtGox hack, the mybitcoin disappearance and the legal battles we all face.

There are 'riskier' investors, and I've already secured and signed with them, but why does that have to be? Is it because Bitcoin is so new that alot of my question remain unanswered?

The point of this post is yes to voice my frustrations, but at the same time I consider this community to be shareholders in my company because your thoughts, ideas, and voices are what make up Bitcoin. You guys have been here since the beginning and no what will, and what will not work.

With that said, I was hoping to get the following out of this post:
1. Some feedback of my thoughts.
2. Advice/Tips for my next investor meeting.
3. Overall ideas of HOW you guys see Bitcoin breaking into the mainstream market.

Thanks for reading 

-Charlie

[tetra4c]

How many roads must a man walk down,
before you call him a man?
How many seas must a white dove fly,
before she sleeps in the sand?
And how many times must a cannon ball fly,
before they're forever banned?

The answer my friend is blowing in the wind,
the answer is blowing in the wind.

How many years can a mountain exist,
before it is washed to the sea?
How many years can some people exist,
before they're allowed to be free?
And how many times can a man turn his head,
and pretend that he just doesn't see?

The answer my friend is blowing in the wind,
the answer is blowing in the wind.

How many times must a man look up,
before he sees the sky?
And how many ears must one man have,
before he can hear people cry ?
And how many deaths will it take till we know,
that too many people have died?

The answer my friend is blowing in the wind,
the answer is blowing in the wind.

The answer my friend is blowing in the wind,
the answer is blowing in the wind

......  up next The List

[nmat]

I really like Bob Dylan, but I don't think that he is going to help us out... So what do the investors say? Why are they so afraid of putting money into this?

Defining a legal status is an essential step towards bitcoin's future. There are probably lots of investors, speculators and merchants that are afraid of using Bitcoin because, legally, it is a grey area. The recent "Wikipedia case" made me think that people won't believe in Bitcoin if governments do not recognize it.

[adamstgBit]

what do you do with the investors money??

[majamalu]

There are probably lots of investors, speculators and merchants that are afraid of using Bitcoin because, legally, it is a grey area. The recent "Wikipedia case" made me think that people won't believe in Bitcoin if governments do not recognize it.

If there is enough economic incentive, people are not afraid of the gray areas. They are afraid of new things.

[majamalu]

Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You'll be drenched to the bone.
If your time to you
Is worth savin'
Then you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'.
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside ragin'.
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin'.
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'.

The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is
Rapidly fadin'.
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin'.

[cypherdoc]

if any of your investors would ever want to talk to me i'd be happy to serve as a reference for you.

[tetra4c]

For the times they are a-changin'.

+1

[Steve]

Investors can be very skittish creatures.  Give it time.  When a few of the more risky aspects of bitcoin have been addressed (adoption, legal, etc), you won't be able to shake off the investors with a stick.  Everyone will want a piece of it.  My suggestion to you is to not take on any investors just yet.  You'll end up giving too much away.

[Yankee (BitInstant)]

Investors can be very skittish creatures.  Give it time.  When a few of the more risky aspects of bitcoin have been addressed (adoption, legal, etc), you won't be able to shake off the investors with a stick.  Everyone will want a piece of it.  My suggestion to you is to not take on any investors just yet.  You'll end up giving too much away.

Steve. thanks for the tip, looks like I may go a similar route of limiting investment.

Still need money though

[tetra4c]

Yankee,

Here's what you’ll have to explain to investors:

1). Bitcoin7 - scam
2). MyBitcoin - likely a scam
3). Bruce Wagner – Just the allegations are disturbing
4). Mt. Gox – This will need bullet points.
       a). Hacked
       b). Credited millions to over 100 accounts during DB transfer. In one hour 400k in BTC was bought - hrm
       c). Sent money to black hole.
       d). 60k user names leaked
       i). Role backs
  5). FNIB?
  6). Runnin my BTC exchange on lunch break between History and Chemistry.  
  7). Wallet Trojans
  . Mt.Gox and Tradehill phishing scams.
  9). Blackmail anyone?
  10). Spam
  11). DWOLLA quietly charging back funds …. not telling anyone.
  12). ExchB didn’t steal anyone’s money … fffeeewww!
  13). Market manipulation.
  14). Silk Road
  15). DDOS attacks
  16). Chuck Schumer – “Bitcoin is money laundering”
  17). Russian Mob
  18). Russian Mob Payment Providers
  20). Pattaya – “Three pronged attack”
  21). Bitomat PLN
  22). Tom Williams – “Smoking Gun”
  23). “Other” Coin – trucoin, solidcoin, mooncoin, ixcoin, namecoin – Which coin?
  24). CosbyCoin – That was just funny though!
  25). Bank Freezes
  26). "Tell me about the creator. Oh, Satoshi!"
  27). 51% attacks

That’s allot to explain in one meeting. Does someone want to make a PPT?

Tell them that through all this, bitcoin usage continues to grow.

We've been through ALLOT. The legit people in this community have one thing in common: perseverance!

This could be an awesome movie one day.

[netrin]

Most people are incapable of seeing anything not smack in front of their eyes - investors included. If you presented the growth charts of the internet ten years ago and then suggested someone invest in networking, fiber optic, browsers, sites, etc, the connection was clear -- they want a piece of that growth. If you were to show declining bitcoin charts, well... their eyes go dark and their ears go deaf.

[Yankee (BitInstant)]

How much investment are you looking for? Have you thought of using the GLBSE or asking for investment from within the community?

We've thought about using GLBSE, but honestly not familiar with how it works. I prefer working with investors and angels because they bring things like experience to the table rather then just money.

[ineededausername]

This could be an awesome movie one day.

I want to see this movie.  I can imagine it!  Almost no props are required, just a couple of monitors and fat people.

[teflone]

Yankee,

Here's what you’ll have to explain to investors:

1). Bitcoin7 - scam
2). MyBitcoin - likely a scam
3). Bruce Wagner – Just the allegations are disturbing
4). Mt. Gox – This will need bullet points.
       a). Hacked
       b). Credited millions to over 100 accounts during DB transfer. In one hour 400k in BTC was bought - hrm
       c). Sent money to black hole.
       d). 60k user names leaked
       i). Role backs
  5). FNIB?
  6). Runnin my BTC exchange on lunch break between History and Chemistry.  
  7). Wallet Trojans
  . Mt.Gox and Tradehill phishing scams.
  9). Blackmail anyone?
  10). Spam
  11). DWOLLA quietly charging back funds …. not telling anyone.
  12). ExchB didn’t steal anyone’s money … fffeeewww!
  13). Market manipulation.
  14). Silk Road
  15). DDOS attacks
  16). Chuck Schumer – “Bitcoin is money laundering”
  17). Russian Mob
  18). Russian Mob Payment Providers
  20). Pattaya – “Three pronged attack”
  21). Bitomat PLN
  22). Tom Williams – “Smoking Gun”
  23). “Other” Coin – trucoin, solidcoin, mooncoin, ixcoin, namecoin – Which coin?
  24). CosbyCoin – That was just funny though!
  25). Bank Freezes
  26). "Tell me about the creator. Oh, Satoshi!"
  27). 51% attacks

That’s allot to explain in one meeting. Does someone want to make a PPT?

Tell them that through all this, bitcoin usage continues to grow.

We've been through ALLOT. The legit people in this community have one thing in common: perseverance!

This could be an awesome movie one day.

Yes, explain to them all the public BS bitcoin has endured, and scare everyone away!, brilliant..

[the joint]

As I sit here in the SoHo House in lower Manhattan, I cant help but express some frustration in taking Bitcoin and its economy more mainstream. A prospective investor just left, and I'm finishing up a seed round of funding. Although I've done this before with my other companies, the ratio of prospective investors to actual investors is much higher here than in any other industry, which means I have to meet more investors than I would for another type of business. Previously, If I had met 10 investors, at least 2-3 would invest, but with Bitcoin that number is much higher.

I've come to a realization that I'm not just pitching my company, but rather pitching the whole industry of Bitcoin. Not only that, but most time spent on meetings IS explaining, pitching, and trying to have them understand why Bitcoin will become (investing with me, of course) a multi billion dollar industry.

My initial obstacles was explaining how this would grow, how can we use Bitcoin in the mainstream world? Obviously as a merchant solution the answer is simple and Bitcoin is very appealing to adult entertainment sites, gambling and eventually larger retailers.

Right, Growth. Thats the key word.

So I prepare documents and business models and explain how much Bitcoin will make, how much it has made and its mistakes and how the community has fixed them. I have to explain the MtGox hack, the mybitcoin disappearance and the legal battles we all face.

There are 'riskier' investors, and I've already secured and signed with them, but why does that have to be? Is it because Bitcoin is so new that alot of my question remain unanswered?

The point of this post is yes to voice my frustrations, but at the same time I consider this community to be shareholders in my company because your thoughts, ideas, and voices are what make up Bitcoin. You guys have been here since the beginning and no what will, and what will not work.

With that said, I was hoping to get the following out of this post:
1. Some feedback of my thoughts.
2. Advice/Tips for my next investor meeting.
3. Overall ideas of HOW you guys see Bitcoin breaking into the mainstream market.

Thanks for reading 

-Charlie

Give them a Bitcoin on the spot and have them make a transaction within 10 minutes.  Show them that it can be done that quickly and without having to get up.

[cypherdoc]

As I sit here in the SoHo House in lower Manhattan, I cant help but express some frustration in taking Bitcoin and its economy more mainstream. A prospective investor just left, and I'm finishing up a seed round of funding. Although I've done this before with my other companies, the ratio of prospective investors to actual investors is much higher here than in any other industry, which means I have to meet more investors than I would for another type of business. Previously, If I had met 10 investors, at least 2-3 would invest, but with Bitcoin that number is much higher.

I've come to a realization that I'm not just pitching my company, but rather pitching the whole industry of Bitcoin. Not only that, but most time spent on meetings IS explaining, pitching, and trying to have them understand why Bitcoin will become (investing with me, of course) a multi billion dollar industry.

My initial obstacles was explaining how this would grow, how can we use Bitcoin in the mainstream world? Obviously as a merchant solution the answer is simple and Bitcoin is very appealing to adult entertainment sites, gambling and eventually larger retailers.

Right, Growth. Thats the key word.

So I prepare documents and business models and explain how much Bitcoin will make, how much it has made and its mistakes and how the community has fixed them. I have to explain the MtGox hack, the mybitcoin disappearance and the legal battles we all face.

There are 'riskier' investors, and I've already secured and signed with them, but why does that have to be? Is it because Bitcoin is so new that alot of my question remain unanswered?

The point of this post is yes to voice my frustrations, but at the same time I consider this community to be shareholders in my company because your thoughts, ideas, and voices are what make up Bitcoin. You guys have been here since the beginning and no what will, and what will not work.

With that said, I was hoping to get the following out of this post:
1. Some feedback of my thoughts.
2. Advice/Tips for my next investor meeting.
3. Overall ideas of HOW you guys see Bitcoin breaking into the mainstream market.

Thanks for reading 

-Charlie

Give them a Bitcoin on the spot and have them make a transaction within 10 minutes.  Show them that it can be done that quickly and without having to get up.

this is actually a good suggestion.  bring an ipad, a smartphone, and a laptop and move 1BTC back and forth btwn the three and tell them to pretend the devices are spread out btwn the North Pole, the South Pole and the Moon.

[fornit]

My initial obstacles was explaining how this would grow, how can we use Bitcoin in the mainstream world? Obviously as a merchant solution the answer is simple and Bitcoin is very appealing to adult entertainment sites, gambling and eventually larger retailers.

Right, Growth. Thats the key word.

So I prepare documents and business models and explain how much Bitcoin will make, how much it has made and its mistakes and how the community has fixed them. I have to explain the MtGox hack, the mybitcoin disappearance and the legal battles we all face.

With that said, I was hoping to get the following out of this post:
1. Some feedback of my thoughts.
2. Advice/Tips for my next investor meeting.
3. Overall ideas of HOW you guys see Bitcoin breaking into the mainstream market.

in my opinion, niche markets with very high pressure to find an alternative payment solution will be the first to adopt bitcoin. bitcoin isnt convenient enough for mass adoption right now. but where payments can be either extremely slow (see here for example: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=52313.msg624195#msg624195) or fees eat away a big part of the profit. for paypal, the latter is pretty much everything in the price range below 10$, so its especially digital goods and services, see uploaded.to or bitcointorrent.com for example.
adult and gambling sites are of course also under some pressure, the first because they often rely on buying out of impulse, the latter because players - encourage by the gambling sites -  constantly move money to grab bonuses, with the sites having to share their profits from this behavior with the payment processors. but established companies are usually not the fastest adopters plus in gambling it only makes much sense when multiple sites accept bitcoin.
for investors, i think you have to point out that this is a very dynamic situation. since bitcoins usefulness grows with adoption, growth will inevitably happen in waves of exponential growth. so waiting how things develop isnt the best course of action. there is a train to miss here. of course, you need a business model that either caters to a realistic group of people to adopt bitcoin rapidly or create that group yourself. a possible example of the first might be the esports tournaments i linked to before. if bitcoin catches on with those gamers, a shop where they can spend their winnings on things they like would profit from accepting bitcoin. a possible example of the latter might be okpay. right now they only have 300k customers but they are also only four years old. the amount of bitcoin users is similiar. right now, okpays fees are to high for most bitcoin users and bitcoin is most likely to arcane for most okpay users.  but okpay users are pretty much by nature of the business model people with limited access to banking solutions and therefore likely to embrace bitcoin.
so when either bitcoin or okpay start to grow rapidly, it is very likely that the synergy between the two incites growth in the other.

i like the suggestion to show them how convenient it is to use bitcoin once people have adopted it. simulate some other ways to transfer money and specific amount and compare it to bitcoin. with bitcoin you pretty much have a copy/paste address plus entering a single password and the standard fee of 0.001. without any third party to worry about and proof of the payment in block explorer.
let them compare that to tedious banking procedures, paypal fees, chargebacks and account freezes or people outright denying they ever received money from you.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Yankee,

Here's what you’ll have to explain to investors:

1). Bitcoin7 - scam
2). MyBitcoin - likely a scam
3). Bruce Wagner – Just the allegations are disturbing
4). Mt. Gox – This will need bullet points.
       a). Hacked
       b). Credited millions to over 100 accounts during DB transfer. In one hour 400k in BTC was bought - hrm
       c). Sent money to black hole.
       d). 60k user names leaked
       i). Role backs
  5). FNIB?
  6). Runnin my BTC exchange on lunch break between History and Chemistry.  
  7). Wallet Trojans
  . Mt.Gox and Tradehill phishing scams.
  9). Blackmail anyone?
  10). Spam
  11). DWOLLA quietly charging back funds …. not telling anyone.
  12). ExchB didn’t steal anyone’s money … fffeeewww!
  13). Market manipulation.
  14). Silk Road
  15). DDOS attacks
  16). Chuck Schumer – “Bitcoin is money laundering”
  17). Russian Mob
  18). Russian Mob Payment Providers
  20). Pattaya – “Three pronged attack”
  21). Bitomat PLN
  22). Tom Williams – “Smoking Gun”
  23). “Other” Coin – trucoin, solidcoin, mooncoin, ixcoin, namecoin – Which coin?
  24). CosbyCoin – That was just funny though!
  25). Bank Freezes
  26). "Tell me about the creator. Oh, Satoshi!"
  27). 51% attacks

That’s allot to explain in one meeting. Does someone want to make a PPT?

Tell them that through all this, bitcoin usage continues to grow.

We've been through ALLOT. The legit people in this community have one thing in common: perseverance!

This could be an awesome movie one day.

Yes, explain to them all the public BS bitcoin has endured, and scare everyone away!, brilliant..

Pay it no mind, teflone. The following is his first post using that user name.

Hi,

I hope all is well with you.

This is Adam Stradling, one of the co-founders at Tradehill.

In the past, we have used Jered's account to communicate on the forums. I have created my own account for Tradehill related items and seperate account for personal commentaries.

Can I get whitelisted?

For TH posts - username: Adam S (TradeHill)

For Personal posts - this account - username: tetra4c

Thanks again!

Regards,

Adam

[tetra4c]

Pay it no mind, teflone. The following is his first post using that user name.

Wow - Ya got me - Unmasked

I know people know this is my username. Not like I couldn't use one of the unidentified ones I have. Or create a new one in two secs. It's also my IRC name so I'm obviously not tring to hide anything. I'd prefer to be able to speak my thoughts outside of TradeHill, but everytime I post something Sherlock Holmes comes around and makes 2+2.

As for my statement being "BS" as in "Bullshit" as in a "lie" - check yourself - because at least 80% is verifiably cold hard TRUTH. The faster you face that, the faster the problems will get solved. I've been through all these things first hand. We still get up every morning and conduct business.

Heck! Our company covered the massive Dwolla losses *ourselves*. That was YOUR money they took from us!

Yankee said it himself - investor's ask these questions! You'd better be ready to answer.

Having gotten angel investment, we answered them!

Truly,