My noob questions

[Folio]

Hello everyone. I believe this is the official forum where it all began, so I feel both excited and a bit embarrassed to write my ignorant questions here.

So I have fallen into the bitcoin hole for the last few months, but I have still a lot of doubts, if it's not a problem with moderators, I'd like to use this discussion to ask various questions regarding bitcoin that will pop to my mind. If it's a problem you can delete the topic.



Question 1: I have a wallet, I have the seed phrase. If I open it with the exodus wallet or the electrum wallet, I see my money. If I open it with atomic wallet, I see my balance at 0. I believe it must be because these wallets contain different kinds of addressed, because if I look at them, I indeed see different addresses. Is this normal? Shouldn't my wallet (whatever it is), see my coins in whichever address they are?

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[coupable]

Hello everyone. I believe this is the official forum where it all began, so I feel both excited and a bit embarrassed to write my ignorant questions here.

Hello Folio, welcome to bitcoin forum.
You don't have to feel embarrassed. No one will judge you by your ignorance as a newbie. We all started somewhere like you.

So I have fallen into the bitcoin hole for the last few months, but I have still a lot of doubts, if it's not a problem with moderators, I'd like to use this discussion to ask various questions regarding bitcoin that will pop to my mind. If it's a problem you can delete the topic.

There is no problem with moderators to use this thread to ask various questions regarding bitcoin. You just have to move it to the Beginners & Help board [the "move" button is in the bottom of this page]. Instead, i suggest you to do your own researches using the search option or any searche engine in the internet, as almost all the frequent asked questions have been responsed before. But if you insist to use this forum whenever you want to ask something, i invite you to take a look at the forum rules before to start; Unofficial list of (official) Bitcointalk.org rules, guidelines, FAQ

Question 1: I have a wallet, I have the seed phrase. If I open it with the exodus wallet or the electrum wallet, I see my money. If I open it with atomic wallet, I see my balance at 0. I believe it must be because these wallets contain different kinds of addressed, because if I look at them, I indeed see different addresses. Is this normal? Shouldn't my wallet (whatever it is), see my coins in whichever address they are?

Atomic wallet is a multi-currency wallet. This means it can be used to store other cryptocurrencies. However, you should see your btc balance if you use your own seed. I am not familiar with it, just try to select only bitcoin pair and see if it shows your money.
As you are in a basic stage, i suggest you to continue with Electrum, it's a friendly use bitcoin client dedicated for both newbies and experienced users .

[bitmover]

Question 1: I have a wallet, I have the seed phrase. If I open it with the exodus wallet or the electrum wallet, I see my money. If I open it with atomic wallet, I see my balance at 0. I believe it must be because these wallets contain different kinds of addressed, because if I look at them, I indeed see different addresses. Is this normal? Shouldn't my wallet (whatever it is), see my coins in whichever address they are?

It is a good security practice not to write your seed anywhere. Don't go pasting your seed around wallets ,as you can be easily hacked this way.

Atomic wallet is not a very good wallet imo. Stick with electrum  or exodus.

You probably used the wrong derivation path in atomic wallet  , this is why you see other addresses.  Do they start with which number? And in electrum?

[BitMaxz]

Actually it's not safe to import seed to different wallets like Exodus and Atomic wallet. I don't want you to lose all of your Bitcoins next time make a wallet only for one wallet and don't export it to different wallets.

About your question, it seems that the Atomic wallet is generated a different wallet not the same as the Exodus wallet and Electrum.
The possible reason the Atomic wallet generates different derivation paths that's why it generates different wallet addresses and shows zero funds.

I suggest you better stay using Electrum this is what I currently using without any issue yet and friendly user.

And this topic must be moved to Wallet software

[Folio]

Hello everyone. I believe this is the official forum where it all began, so I feel both excited and a bit embarrassed to write my ignorant questions here.

Hello Folio, welcome to bitcoin forum.
You don't have to feel embarrassed. No one will judge you by your ignorance as a newbie. We all started somewhere like you.

So I have fallen into the bitcoin hole for the last few months, but I have still a lot of doubts, if it's not a problem with moderators, I'd like to use this discussion to ask various questions regarding bitcoin that will pop to my mind. If it's a problem you can delete the topic.

There is no problem with moderators to use this thread to ask various questions regarding bitcoin. You just have to move it to the Beginners & Help board [the "move" button is in the bottom of this page]. Instead, i suggest you to do your own researches using the search option or any searche engine in the internet, as almost all the frequent asked questions have been responsed before. But if you insist to use this forum whenever you want to ask something, i invite you to take a look at the forum rules before to start; Unofficial list of (official) Bitcointalk.org rules, guidelines, FAQ

Question 1: I have a wallet, I have the seed phrase. If I open it with the exodus wallet or the electrum wallet, I see my money. If I open it with atomic wallet, I see my balance at 0. I believe it must be because these wallets contain different kinds of addressed, because if I look at them, I indeed see different addresses. Is this normal? Shouldn't my wallet (whatever it is), see my coins in whichever address they are?

Atomic wallet is a multi-currency wallet. This means it can be used to store other cryptocurrencies. However, you should see your btc balance if you use your own seed. I am not familiar with it, just try to select only bitcoin pair and see if it shows your money.
As you are in a basic stage, i suggest you to continue with Electrum, it's a friendly use bitcoin client dedicated for both newbies and experienced users .

Thanks for the welcome. I moved the topic as you said.
I don't see the money in the atomic wallet even if I only leave bitcoin as a currency.
If I write my atomic wallet address on blockchair or blockstream I see no money either.

Question 1: I have a wallet, I have the seed phrase. If I open it with the exodus wallet or the electrum wallet, I see my money. If I open it with atomic wallet, I see my balance at 0. I believe it must be because these wallets contain different kinds of addressed, because if I look at them, I indeed see different addresses. Is this normal? Shouldn't my wallet (whatever it is), see my coins in whichever address they are?

It is a good security practice not to write your seed anywhere. Don't go pasting your seed around wallets ,as you can be easily hacked this way.

Atomic wallet is not a very good wallet imo. Stick with electrum  or exodus.

You probably used the wrong derivation path in atomic wallet  , this is why you see other addresses.  Do they start with which number? And in electrum?

Hi, thanks. Yes I can imagine. But in the beginning I am making a lot of tests sending money to myself in order to get a grip of how it all works, but I can see how it can become dangerous.
The exodus wallet looks very good but you cannot set the fees therefore I abandoned it.

Now regarding the "derivation path", I think you are spot on.
The address of the atomic wallet starts with a 1, the one on the electrum wallet starts with the letter b.
Do I choose this "derivation path" or is it an automatic thing that the wallet does?
From what I understood, my money are still attached to my seed phrase, so even though my atomic wallet does not show them, they are in fact in there, the problem is that the wallet by default only shows a certain amount of addresses. Can I decide which addresses it shows?

Actually it's not safe to import seed to different wallets like Exodus and Atomic wallet. I don't want you to lose all of your Bitcoins next time make a wallet only for one wallet and don't export it to different wallets.

About your question, it seems that the Atomic wallet is generated a different wallet not the same as the Exodus wallet and Electrum.
The possible reason the Atomic wallet generates different derivation paths that's why it generates different wallet addresses and shows zero funds.

I suggest you better stay using Electrum this is what I currently using without any issue yet and friendly user.

And this topic must be moved to Wallet software

The problem with Electrum is that the mobile app looks a bit horrendous, but if you guys suggest it as the best one I will stick with it.
I had read that the Electrum wallet was hacked though a few years ago and a warning message appeared asking users to download a fake wallet which stole their money. That said, you think Electrum is the best wallet (besides the cold ones)?

I'd prefer to leave the topic to the beginner section as I have other questions.

[OmegaStarScream]

From what I understood, my money are still attached to my seed phrase, so even though my atomic wallet does not show them, they are in fact in there, the problem is that the wallet by default only shows a certain amount of addresses. Can I decide which addresses it shows?

The problem with Electrum is that the mobile app looks a bit horrendous, but if you guys suggest it as the best one I will stick with it.

Which wallet have you used to generate the seed?

Atomicwallet supports legacy addresses only (start with 1)  while Exodus and Electrum support bech32 addresses (start with bc1) and that's why you can't see your balance in atomic. Electrum lets you choose the type of addresses (while restoring the wallet), but other wallets don't.

The problem with Electrum is that the mobile app looks a bit horrendous, but if you guys suggest it as the best one I will stick with it.

If you don't like how Electrum wallet looks on the phone, go with Mycelium.

I had read that the Electrum wallet was hacked though a few years ago and a warning message appeared asking users to download a fake wallet which stole their money. That said, you think Electrum is the best wallet (besides the cold ones)?

If you don't want to invest in a hardware wallet, then yes, Electrum is definitely the way to go.

Note: You can restore any wallet's seed into electrum, but electrum's cannot be imported anywhere but to itself and Bluewallet.

[Charles-Tim]

That said, you think Electrum is the best wallet (besides the cold ones)?

For saving bitcoin, electrum wallet is one of the best, but you too have to use it carefully, there are malware that can hack electrical wallet, avoid unknowingly installing malware and you are good to go. As for me, I like only one bitcoin mobile wallet, it is electrum. Be careful of your seed phrase, so far too use electrum, it will be advisable to only use another electrum wallet for recovery in case as it will not deny you of you seed phrase, it will always use the same derivation part.

As for hardware wallet, they are one of the safest but that does not mean electrum wallet is not good, but if you have money to get a good hardware wallet like trezor one or ledger nano s or x, them tou are good, but no wallet is 100% safe until you yourself is so careful, also, hardware wallets support many cryptocurrencies.

[Folio]

Which wallet have you used to generate the seed?

Atomicwallet supports legacy addresses only (start with 1)  while Exodus and Electrum support bech32 addresses (start with bc1) and that's why you can't see your balance in atomic. Electrum lets you choose the type of addresses (while restoring (https://bitcoinelectrum.com/restoring-your-standard-wallet-from-seed/) the wallet), but other wallets don't.

I don't remember which wallet I used to generate the seed, but I think it was the Atomic wallet.

If you don't like how Electrum wallet looks on the phone, go with Mycelium.

So I can use Electrum on the PC and Mycelium on the phone without any danger?

For saving bitcoin, electrum wallet is one of the best, but you too have to use it carefully, there are malware that can hack electrical wallet, avoid unknowingly installing malware and you are good to go. As for me, I like only one bitcoin mobile wallet, it is electrum. Be careful of your seed phrase, so far too use electrum, it will be advisable to only use another electrum wallet for recovery in case as it will not deny you of you seed phrase, it will always use the same derivation part.

As for hardware wallet, they are one of the safest but that does not mean electrum wallet is not good, but if you have money to get a good hardware wallet like trezor one or ledger nano s or x, them tou are good, but no wallet is 100% safe until you yourself is so careful, also, hardware wallets support many cryptocurrencies.

Given that I plan on reaching 1 btc at least (if it doesn't skyrocket before I'm able to), I think I will make 2 wallets, the main one which I will keep on a Linux live usb stick and a small one to use daily. But that's for the future, I'll have to learn how to sign a transaction offline.


Question 2: on the Electrum wallet I have some money on the address X and some other money on the address Y. The sum of x and y make the total amount of my money. Can I move the money to a specific address or do I have to "send" them to myself?

Question 3: when I choose which address I want to use to receive money, if I select the ones with money in them, they are highlighted in red. Does this only mean that they already contain money or there's something else to know?

Question 4: how come I can choose which address to use to receive money but I cannot choose which address to use to send money? If it automatically uses the main one, the receiver will be able to see my balance, no?

[OmegaStarScream]

So I can use Electrum on the PC and Mycelium on the phone without any danger?

Yes, you can but it's not recommended to use the same seed on multiple devices.

Question 2: on the Electrum wallet I have some money on the address X and some other money on the address Y. The sum of x and y make the total amount of my money. Can I move the money to a specific address or do I have to "send" them to myself?

Question 3: when I choose which address I want to use to receive money, if I select the ones with money in them, they are highlighted in red. Does this only mean that they already contain money or there's something else to know?

Question 4: how come I can choose which address to use to receive money but I cannot choose which address to use to send money? If it automatically uses the main one, the receiver will be able to see my balance, no?

- Do you mean you want to move everything to one address? If so, then yes, you'll have to send them to yourself (create a transaction and pay a fee).
- That's basically it, you can keep using the same address to receive funds, but that's not recommended (for privacy reasons).
- You can right-click the address and then simply select "Send from".

[Charles-Tim]

OmegaStarScream has answered you all, seed phrase is not for recovering bitcoin from one wallet to another wallets frequently,  using it on another different wallet is not also advisable, use the seed phrase only for recovery of the same wallet on another device is better and also should be during theft or damage or when changing device, not for fun sake. Not that you can not use seed phrase to recover on another wallet of different type, but you have to make sure the new wallet you want to input the seed phrase support the derivation part of the old wallet.

Question 4: how come I can choose which address to use to receive money but I cannot choose which address to use to send money? If it automatically uses the main one, the receiver will be able to see my balance, no?

It is not advisable to use one (main) address, using wallets that can generate new address automatically for each transaction is better, new address will also be generated automatically while sending, this is to maintain high level of privacy. So, you do not need to bother choosing which address you want to use to send as the address will change for each transactions automatically.

If it automatically uses the main one, the receiver will be able to see my balance, no?

Any amount of bitcoin sent to a single address can be traced/tracked, if you are using only one address to send or receive, that means all bitcoin sent through the address can be traced, but your balance can not be seen only some kind of malware can do this.

[bitmover]

It is a good security practice not to write your seed anywhere. Don't go pasting your seed around wallets ,as you can be easily hacked this way.

Atomic wallet is not a very good wallet imo. Stick with electrum  or exodus.

You probably used the wrong derivation path in atomic wallet  , this is why you see other addresses.  Do they start with which number? And in electrum?

Hi, thanks. Yes I can imagine. But in the beginning I am making a lot of tests sending money to myself in order to get a grip of how it all works, but I can see how it can become dangerous.
The exodus wallet looks very good but you cannot set the fees therefore I abandoned it.

Now regarding the "derivation path", I think you are spot on.
The address of the atomic wallet starts with a 1, the one on the electrum wallet starts with the letter b.
Do I choose this "derivation path" or is it an automatic thing that the wallet does?
From what I understood, my money are still attached to my seed phrase, so even though my atomic wallet does not show them, they are in fact in there, the problem is that the wallet by default only shows a certain amount of addresses. Can I decide which addresses it shows?

You money is attached to the Seed, however you have to tell your wallet where inside this seed your funds are. This is what the derivation path is. It will tell your wallet where to look

As your address with balance starts with 'b', it is a native segwit address, its derivation path is m / 84' / 0' / 0'
In your atomic wallet, as its starts with '1', it is a legacy address, and the derivation path is m / 44' / 0 / 0

[Benefactor]

Hello everyone. I believe this is the official forum where it all began, so I feel both excited and a bit embarrassed to write my ignorant questions here.

So I have fallen into the bitcoin hole for the last few months, but I have still a lot of doubts, if it's not a problem with moderators, I'd like to use this discussion to ask various questions regarding bitcoin that will pop to my mind. If it's a problem you can delete the topic.



Question 1: I have a wallet, I have the seed phrase. If I open it with the exodus wallet or the electrum wallet, I see my money. If I open it with atomic wallet, I see my balance at 0. I believe it must be because these wallets contain different kinds of addressed, because if I look at them, I indeed see different addresses. Is this normal? Shouldn't my wallet (whatever it is), see my coins in whichever address they are?

Congratulations to everyone on the Bitcoin Forum. Yes you can feel free to ask any question related to Bitcoin here but it is better if you follow the forum rules in a good. The moderators here are all very sincere. You can ask questions here to find out any useful bitcoin related information. Everyone will answer your question with a lot of sincerity. I'm telling you to get rid of the Atomic wallet. Lean towards the Electrum Wallet as soon as possible. It will be good for you.

[Folio]

Question 5: is a wallet with 24 words safer than one with 12 words? I have one with 12, should I switch to one with 24? I am getting serious with bitcoin now.

[OmegaStarScream]

Question 5: is a wallet with 24 words safer than one with 12 words? I have one with 12, should I switch to one with 24? I am getting serious with bitcoin now.

Well, in short, both are impossible to crack. If you want to know the math behind it, read this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5078657.0

It's worth mentioning that some wallets (like Electrum and Trezor) allow their users to extend their seed with custom words which can be very helpful to add an extra layer of security.

[Pmalek]

The problem with Electrum is that the mobile app looks a bit horrendous, but if you guys suggest it as the best one I will stick with it.
I had read that the Electrum wallet was hacked though a few years ago and a warning message appeared asking users to download a fake wallet which stole their money. That said, you think Electrum is the best wallet (besides the cold ones)?

Don't focus on the looks and the design of the wallet. The security and safety of funds should be your top priority. The correct use of Electrum fulfills those goals.

Electrum was never hacked. Certain users abused a loophole that allowed Electrum servers to send custom messages. These messages informed the users that their Electrum software was out of date and needed to be updated. They posted links to phishing websites. Those who clicked and installed the fake software lost their Bitcoin. This loophole has been patched since the 3.3.4 version of Electrum.

That is why we always say verify your Electrum signatures before you install the software. If those who were phished had done that, they would have noticed that the software they installed was fake and is not the original Electrum.

[Lucius]

That is why we always say verify your Electrum signatures before you install the software. If those who were phished had done that, they would have noticed that the software they installed was fake and is not the original Electrum.

The reason why many people are hacked via Electrum is not only in the fact that users did not verify the signature (but most had no idea it was possible), but also in the fact that this security flaw existed at all and was not previously detected and fixed. Most (at least on this forum) blame users exclusively for not doing something (verify signatures), but it is also a big responsibility of those who have publicly distributed software with such a security flaw.

I don't see that such things can be avoided in the future unless downloading such sensitive programs would only be possible by forcing users to verify downloaded files before installation.

[Folio]

What does it mean "verify your Electrum signature"?

[o_e_l_e_o]

What does it mean "verify your Electrum signature"?

Much like the private and public keys we use in bitcoin to sign and verify transactions, we can use private and public keys in general cryptography to sign and verify other data.

When Electrum is released, the main developor Thomas Voegtlin signs the release with one of his private cryptography keys. He also publishes the corresponding public key. Anyone who downloads Electrum can then use that public key to verify that the version of Electrum they downloaded is identical to the version of Electrum which was signed by Voegtlin. If you had accidentally downloaded a malicious version, someone had tampered or edited the code in the version you downloaded, malware had buried itself inside, etc., then the verification process would fail, alerting you that you had downloaded a malicious copy and not to use it. In short, verifying your download ensures that you are using a legitimate copy straight from the developer.

There's an explanation of this on the Electrum download page here:

GPG signatures are a proof that distributed files have been signed by the owner of the signing key. For example, if this website was compromised and the original Electrum files had been replaced, signature verification would fail, because the attacker would not be able to create valid signatures. (Note that an attacker would be able to create valid hashes, this is why we do not publish hashes of our binaries here, it does not bring any security).

For a newbie's guide on how to verify your download, have a look at the following links:
https://bitcoinelectrum.com/how-to-verify-your-electrum-download/
https://bitzuma.com/posts/how-to-verify-an-electrum-download-on-windows/
https://bitzuma.com/posts/how-to-verify-an-electrum-download-on-mac/

[Folio]

My god why does it have to be so complicated.

[o_e_l_e_o]

It's like anything new - it can seem overwhelming at first, but stick with it and you will soon figure out all these quirks and nuances.

With bitcoin, you are "being your own bank". You are taking complete control of your money and not trusting any third party to look after it or manage it for you. Think about your average commercial bank. Think about how complicated their internal database must be, how robust their security systems are, how many employees they have working for them, and so on. With bitcoin, you are emulating all that for yourself. By necessity that comes with a degree of complexity.

It is possible to skip all this and use bitcoin in the most simple way possible - create an account on an exchange, buy bitcoin there, and leave it their storage. You don't have to worry about seed phrases, derivation paths, verifying signatures, or any of the things discussed here. But to do so is to miss out on the very essence of what bitcoin is - peer to peer, trustless, decentralized. If you are going to trust a third party like an exchange to do all the heavy lifting for you, then why use bitcoin at all? Why not just stick to fiat?

To be fair, the question regarding verifying signatures does not just apply to Electrum or bitcoin wallets. I verify everything from Tor to my password manager. When you are downloading or updating any piece of software, it is good practice to verify that it has not been tampered with.