Advocates for free speech start to make their voices known

[Viper1]

https://harpers.org/a-letter-on-justice-and-open-debate/

I know of a few of the people that signed on as I've been listening to their yt videos on this topic for awhile now. That list could have been a hell of a lot longer so will be interesting to see if others step out from the shadows and add their voice to the message in some other ways. This is a real issue that affects everyone on both sides of the political spectrum and it needs voices from both sides to speak out and stop burying their heads in the sand. This isn't just a US issue either. It's all western nations and it's pervaded every aspect of our societies.

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[franky1]

free speech is:
if in an empty room your able to hear your own voice. you have your freedom
not being paralysed/duct tape over mouth to prevent speaking

free speech is not:
where other people have to/need to listen
speak in any public place at any time.
speak without repercussions

for instance
if your banned from youtube.. oh well go find another platform.
your freedom to speak has not been revoked. just privilege of others to hear you has

i know people think that being able to have a platform with huge audience is an element of free speech. but its not. its what comes out of your mouth directly. not if the microphone amplifies it to millions of people or just one person

if your still able to be in an empty room and still hear your own voice. then you still have your freedoms
youtube/forum access has nothing to do with your vocal chords

thinking you only have freedoms if your on youtube/forum. is meaningless
these places can as a courteous and a privilege temporarily allow you to use such platforms to amplify your speech. but it does not mean you have the right to have your speech amplified

its why those street preachers can still use their voice and shout the funny lil yarns about doomsday using their vocal chords.. but they can have their microphone and amplified speaker confiscated.

being given permission to stand on stage infront of a microphone/camera and broadcast to millions. is not a right but a privilege/service. which can be taken away

[Viper1]

if your banned from youtube.. oh well go find another platform.
your freedom to speak has not been revoked. just privilege of others to hear you has

Superficial view of what's really going on. This "cancelling" is being taught in elementary schools, universities; it's permeating everything all the way up to the corporations and even science. Western society is being ripped apart and the "side" that's doing it wants to silence everyone that doesn't see the world through their ideology. I watched a video of an "academic" trying to explain how math is racist. And as we're seeing, if you don't agree with all things racist (and it's not just that issue either), you get silenced. You lose your job if you speak out and disagree. You can't publish papers and on and on it goes. Seriously, go educate yourself on what's really going on instead of seeing this as just a social media issue. The people that are pushing all of this have made it crystal clear they want to tear down society as it is and rebuild it into something else. This issue is all encompassing and people like you are still blind to it all.

[Viper1]

For anyone that actually wants to get a feeling for what's really going on, here's a few videos.

3 years ago evergreen college "imploded". This is a very long sequence of videos but what happened there 3 years ago is what we see going on out in the streets right now. This is what they're being taught in school for decades now and those people are now the ones working for the big corporations and are pushing those agendas.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRdayXEOwuMG9DG66Bvx6YbUnhw-buS5K

A decent series on some of the stuff going on

https://youtu.be/YDFL3xwEEG8
https://youtu.be/7QKDm10S8As
https://youtu.be/IKpU6lyZKws

This guy was part of a group that submitted some "fake" papers for peer review to other academics. The results was shocking. At least one was approved I think but they were "discovered" before all of them could go through the process. One of the papers took part of hitlers mein kampf and simply changed some the words around so it was about trans being oppressed and the comments they got back on it were favorable.

https://youtu.be/rSHL-rSMIro

These guys are interesting to watch and one of them signed the letter.

https://youtu.be/GfsH3AaoqYM

The "censoring" that's going on is just the symptom of what's really happening out there.

[Spendulus]

if your banned from youtube.. oh well go find another platform.
your freedom to speak has not been revoked. just privilege of others to hear you has

Superficial view of what's really going on. This "cancelling" is being taught in elementary schools, universities; it's permeating everything all the way up to the corporations and even science. Western society is being ripped apart and the "side" that's doing it wants to silence everyone that doesn't see the world through their ideology. I watched a video of an "academic" trying to explain how math is racist. And as we're seeing, if you don't agree with all things racist (and it's not just that issue either), you get silenced. You lose your job if you speak out and disagree. You can't publish papers and on and on it goes. Seriously, go educate yourself on what's really going on instead of seeing this as just a social media issue. The people that are pushing all of this have made it crystal clear they want to tear down society as it is and rebuild it into something else. This issue is all encompassing and people like you are still blind to it all.

The conservative "right or far right has been noting this problem and complaining/acting about it for at least five years, while it has gotten steadily worse and worse. My definition is that it is part of the solidifying of the left into a neo-fascist/marxist intolerant form of  progressive totalitarianism.

At least in part Trump is a reaction to these developments.

Agree or disagree?

[madnessteat]

Bitcointalk does not allow freedom of speech, so you are posting this in the wrong place. Oh, they will allow the far-right Bitcoin infiltrators to express their views though. Pff, they will probably delete this reply anyway. Well fuck off bitcointalk anyway.

On the contrary, I think this forum is very democratic. No one will remove a post that contains unpopular opinions or certain political views that contradict the views of the administrator or moderators. Of course, if he is not breaking the rules.

[squatz1]

https://harpers.org/a-letter-on-justice-and-open-debate/

I know of a few of the people that signed on as I've been listening to their yt videos on this topic for awhile now. That list could have been a hell of a lot longer so will be interesting to see if others step out from the shadows and add their voice to the message in some other ways. This is a real issue that affects everyone on both sides of the political spectrum and it needs voices from both sides to speak out and stop burying their heads in the sand. This isn't just a US issue either. It's all western nations and it's pervaded every aspect of our societies.

Bitcointalk does not allow freedom of speech, so you are posting this in the wrong place. Oh, they will allow the far-right Bitcoin infiltrators to express their views though. Pff, they will probably delete this reply anyway. Well fuck off bitcointalk anyway.

... Not sure why you're here then, but I digress.

Pretty happy to see people talking about canceling cancel culture, as it is truly a plague on those that may have said one bad thing at a point in their life, and shouldn't be punished with RUINING THEIR LIFE for doing so. Not sure why this even gained traction, literally just digging through someones past and trying to find that one bad thing that they've said in an attempt to ruin them. Shit is really disgusting and I hope it comes to an end and makes everyone who was doing i a laughingstock.

[Viper1]

if your banned from youtube.. oh well go find another platform.
your freedom to speak has not been revoked. just privilege of others to hear you has

Superficial view of what's really going on. This "cancelling" is being taught in elementary schools, universities; it's permeating everything all the way up to the corporations and even science. Western society is being ripped apart and the "side" that's doing it wants to silence everyone that doesn't see the world through their ideology. I watched a video of an "academic" trying to explain how math is racist. And as we're seeing, if you don't agree with all things racist (and it's not just that issue either), you get silenced. You lose your job if you speak out and disagree. You can't publish papers and on and on it goes. Seriously, go educate yourself on what's really going on instead of seeing this as just a social media issue. The people that are pushing all of this have made it crystal clear they want to tear down society as it is and rebuild it into something else. This issue is all encompassing and people like you are still blind to it all.

The conservative "right or far right has been noting this problem and complaining/acting about it for at least five years, while it has gotten steadily worse and worse. My definition is that it is part of the solidifying of the left into a neo-fascist/marxist intolerant form of  progressive totalitarianism.

At least in part Trump is a reaction to these developments.

Agree or disagree?

I don't want to apply any labels to it as it's this weird mix of bits and pieces of marxism, post modernism etc. There's really no all encompassing label and the ideology has been setup with all this circular reasoning and kafkatraps with zero factual data to back any of it up. The third "Trojan Horse" video (the set of 3) I listed above has a pretty good outline of some of it.

I would agree that a very small part of Trump was a result of it. But that was really buried in the overwhelming desire to have someone speak for and work for regular people while "sticking" it to the establishment.

I would not agree that it's solidifying the left but instead has been growing the far/regressive left. Most on the left don't have a clue what it's all about other than it sort of sounds good. But as they learn more about it, they end up distancing themselves from it. Whether it's too late or not is hard to say. The bigger danger is if there was a populist politician on the left ala Trump that would embrace and run with it. In a lot of ways it's a good thing it looks like it will be Biden for now at least.

Course the George Floyd thing hasn't helped. It's made a shit ton of white people run out to buy that moronic book White Fragility and they'll think it's a good book. Hopefully some of the scathing take downs of that book will also get more exposure but I doubt it.

Overall though, I think we're both in agreement that it's a very bad thing and is a major danger to the future of western civilization. It's the sort of thing that can lead to millions dead either at the hands of the far left, or if the backlash is strong and it brings the far right into more power then at their hands. Either way, we all need to call it out for what it is and attempt in some way to dismantle it.

[franky1]

the issues are:
those with enough money can get their voice amplified easier because they can fund their own platform and decide who can stand on stage with them
and those without the funding/knowhow/contacts feel their voice is not heard.

but in this era of millenials. the biggest problem is not the platform or the speaker.
or even if the platform has a cost/membership

but that millenials have grown up with the mindset that the content of a message is not important. but how amplified the message is.
and if amplified enough to reach enough people. by default it wins the debate

we see it every day. more people have watched a conspiracy video of stupid people calling covid-19 as fake. not because the content has merit. but because its been amplified with clickbait links just to get views which then auto-fames it into the top listing of search results.
and they then feel they won the debate by having the view count

people have made video's about a cat doing a dance and millions watch it, because its been posted on the front page of sites that list things purely by view numbers. thus in of itself creating more views. even if the content is meaningless

thus millenial culture doesnt want real change. they dont want real action. the majority just want that 10minutes of fame knowing millions of people have seen them and know their name, no mater what the content is.

and its this 'trend' culture that then causes real messages of real change to get lost in the rushing sound of the wind.
that then causes those wanting real change to have to go to battle against others to fight to get their whistles heard through the wind

so here is a better plan
instead of trying to play the trend game of view counts...if you have a message to voice. think about which particular listeners would actually be able to act on it.
and is your message going to benefit them. and is it really worth your time

for instance if you want government changes.. well citizens cant do anything apart from a 4-5 year election vote. so instead amplify your voice to politicians themselves.

you dont see political lobbyists on youtube. because they are busy making phonecalls to politicians
get my point

if you are just crying that your not youtube famous. then maybe try something new

[Viper1]

I'm a moron that thinks this is all about social media and young people.

You're right.

[franky1]

I'm a moron that thinks this is all about social media and young people.

You're right.

well you can sit in your room away from social media. and voice your opinion all you like
but those that think they are fighting for free speech. are fighting to get famous on youtube and heard by people

again.
try a new game. forget trying to trend, forget wanting to be able to say any BS on youtube without it getting banned. instead actually ask which individuals count most towards what your message is about.
and direct it towards them directly

or if your just crying because you are not getting millions of views because evil social media is not giving you al the privileges. try something else

..
take things like BLM
so many people have so many different opinions. its just got too crazy.
there are groups that think its just about removing the N word from conversations. not realising its not the word. its the negative tone of the context of the abuse of the whole sentance.
replace the N word with black. and within weks the same abuse exists but using a new buzword
then try to curb the use of 'blacks' and instead say 'browns' and a few weeks. same thing
then try to curb the use of 'browns' and instead say 'coloureds' and a few weeks samething

never actually changing the real underlying abuse. but instead causing more tensions by trying to grammar nazi everyone into political correctness of a word.
or
try to aim to teach people to just chill out and get on with your lives and stop trying to pick fights over everything.

promote MLB Make Lives Better... for everyone
..
but most of the time its just millenials just wanting to make a opinion on the latest trend and get famous from it because they have high viewer numbers.

if you want real BLM change. speak to government/politicians to retrain cops. change laws. and just stop bickering with each other about who has more facebook friends

[Viper1]

I'm a moron that thinks this is all about social media and young people.

You're right.

I just like to type shit out that has no bearing on what's been said.

Are you seriously this dense? Please go educate yourself cause every time you post something in here you just look like a moron. At the very least go watch the videos I posted.

[franky1]

I'm a moron that thinks this is all about social media and young people.

You're right.

I just like to type shit out that has no bearing on what's been said.

Are you seriously this dense? Please go educate yourself cause every time you post something in here you just look like a moron. At the very least go watch the videos I posted.

the link in the topic creation post.. maybe YOUR interpretations that lean to YOUR view of certain things.
but here is the thing. i am making posts several layers deeper than your topics link

that link is just a cry about how the writer feels his voice is being surpressed where editors are sacked and books are retracted..
and then a flimsy open request that people should revolt.. but without much thought on the process

the writer and therefore you need to first understand what the actual freedom of speech is/protects. and what it doesnt. you can save yourself some time.
then you can have a clearer mind of how to handle situations. without it just sounding like the standard millenial cries

so here i go again
everyone has vocal chords. and by nature/human right you can use the vocal chords
once you realise that a certain platform. whether it TV news or social media or newspaper is not the voice. but just a service/business/platform.
once you realise that those platforms can come and go. and are not permanent. you start to grasp the bigger picture.. basically dont moan about the platform

heck even the internet is not even a right.. so if you want to make this whole thing about people taken off the internet.. you are just going to get yourself going in circles.

its not even about trying to empower people about their democratic rights. because thats just wasting time just to say 'you get to put a tick in a box every 4 years, use it' ...... then what
a tick in a box, does not describe the actual issues you want addressed.

you can spend ages trying to fight social media bans and newspaper editorials that fail to publish stories. but those platforms are just temporary businesses that can come and go. and not part of basic rights

as for the message.
if your asking people to find their voice to then shout they want their voice heard. then boom. voice heard.. now what

until you can figure out what actual underlying issue is concerning people and needs to be changed all your really doing is saying ' im shouting to make sure i can still shout' and when asked what are you shouting about. you then say 'im shouting about shouting'
again not gonna get you far. and your just circling the millenial pond

however when it comes to real things that need changing and you feel the real things are getting either not heard or drowned out in a sea of screaming millenials.
try to actually list the problems. find the root of it. and then find out who can actually change it
dont try shuting it out randomly just to be heard. find out who to direct it towards specifically.
..
all this millenial crap of i need to shout because i believe its my right to shout and iwant everyone to hear me shout. just doesnt really list any problems or solutions

so if its for instance black lives matter
dont go down the path of 'it started off with slavery' because slavery ended a century ago and the slaves got compensated. they had families. they live they bred they, they had lives

if its about the jim crow laws, segregation ended ages ago too

actually find the issues of 2020 and the easy fixes for 2021
and not just cry that no one is listening. or people have told you to shut up because it just misses any point you want to make
dont make the message about not being able to transmit a message. where if asked what the message was about you say 'it was a message about failed message transmission.. because again misses the point.

actually find something real that needs changing and without blaming social media, without blaming that you dont get invited to karaoke to shout on stage. dont blame not being a speaker at a conference. but instead understand the real problem you feel is not getting heard. and think of solutions.

people dont respond to crying and 'something needs to be done'
people DO reply to lists of things that can be done if you list how and by who

..but nah i guess you will just want it to be about how your voice is being silenced so without making any societal point you just want to rage scream to be heard. and acknowledged you were heard

i do hope you get out of your millenial mindset of screaming for the sake of screaming. and actually find a cause worth listening to. just so you can escape the circle of being unheard

..
there are many messages of people making up conspiracy stories. their message has no point and is done to just glamourise themself and try getting some group of people around them

instead pick a real topic
war. racial hate. police abuse. over criminalisation or petty crimes and under criminalisation of vile crimes
find something really meaningful and work out the cause and the solution

just dont make it about im angry about something and i want people to hear me growl
just dont make it about wanting people to hear you for the sake that you feel unheard
just dont make it about wanting to get fanclubs together of like minded people to endlessly circle the topic in a clubhouse on a secluded island.

otherwise your just not going to get heard and nothing will change
dig deeper then the blame game of not being heard for the sake of being heard. get a better message first

[Spendulus]

....#*)@#&))*@&$#&*@#

Cancel Culture. Learn about it.

[Viper1]

I'm a moron that thinks this is all about social media and young people.

You're right.

I just like to type shit out that has no bearing on what's been said.

Are you seriously this dense? Please go educate yourself cause every time you post something in here you just look like a moron. At the very least go watch the videos I posted.

Yes, I am that dense and even more so as everything I post has nothing to do with the underlying issue because I'm too lazy to look into it or to even watch the videos provided.

You're a waste of time.

[franky1]

you are the one that does not understand the deeper layers

the 'cancel culture' is the millenial cry baby crap about platforms/microphones being wrongly thought of as rights
i talked about that

the 'advocates of free speach make their voice known' is them shouting ' im shouting to see if i can shout'
i talked about that

the thing is
1. cancel culture is millenials/genZ thinking that the platform is a right. and that being cancelled is a breach of right.
its not. sorry cry babies its not

2. the shouting just to show you have an ability to shout. just doesnt come with any valid message worth hearing.

3. if you shout about shouting. people will just say 'ok you shouted. now what. stop wasting everyones time your annoying, bye' and suddenly you have no audience

4. my point is dont shout for the sake of shouting. thinking your doing the world good by showing your ability to shout. dont blame the platform or the audience for wanting to shut you up and then go on daily rants for months about how no one is letting you be heard.

5. dont just make videos of meaningless crap knowing they wil get removed just so you can cry about the removal. to then have an excuse to rage about the removal.. actually understand that the content of the message should have some meaning. not how its distributed/limited

actually find a message worth listening to.

this whole lets fight cancel culture is the same as punching someone in the head because they ignored you. you end up just looking like a lunatic.
this whole lets just shout to make sure everyone on the street can hear me. makes you look like a lunatic. because your just shouting to prove you can shout.

if there is an actual real life actual fault in politics/society that needs to change to make people live more happily together. then look at that fault. dont go describing the fault and its history and blame something decades ago. dont pick at how it cant be changed as your just not changing it.
instead look at the present situation and find present solutions. then work out who is best to change the present situations and then aim your message towards those critical people that can create the change
in short have a specific and meaningful message and target audience

anything else is just lunatics going in circles being angry like typical millenials/gen Z

[Viper1]

I'm superficial in my thinking and can't see past my own nose.

I will attempt one more time and I'll do it by quoting from that letter

More troubling still, institutional leaders, in a spirit of panicked damage control, are delivering hasty and disproportionate punishments instead of considered reforms. Editors are fired for running controversial pieces; books are withdrawn for alleged inauthenticity; journalists are barred from writing on certain topics; professors are investigated for quoting works of literature in class; a researcher is fired for circulating a peer-reviewed academic study; and the heads of organizations are ousted for what are sometimes just clumsy mistakes.

The real threat to freedom of speech is not about youtube videos or social media. Those are just the outward symptoms of what is going on in the institutions of society.

Noam Chomsky, Gloria Steinem etc are not "millennials". Nor are they just right wing people "crying" about something. A good portion of the people that signed that letter are professors in colleges. I suspect a large portion of them are liberals and they're finally waking up to the fact that liberalism is being attacked via the far left, "progressives" etc in order to destroy it and replace it with something that is not about personal freedoms or individuality. Racism, sexism, patriarchy, intersectionality etc etc are being used to silence all opposition to the cultural "revolution" they're trying to accomplish and the "millennials", who were indoctrinated to that way of thinking in college, are just their enforcement arm. That enforcement arm is now in positions of power within the corporations, the media etc. While the right has been complaining about a lot of this for some time now, it's only because it's threatening political speech that they're finally being far more vocal about it. But make no mistake, liberals and conservatives have been raising alarm bells for several years now. I'm not just making this up. In the theoretical literature that backs up all this stuff, it makes clear that "revolution" and the destruction of liberalism is the goal.

[franky1]

I'm superficial in my thinking and can't see past my own nose.

I will attempt one more time and I'll do it by quoting from that letter

More troubling still, institutional leaders, in a spirit of panicked damage control, are delivering hasty and disproportionate punishments instead of considered reforms. Editors are fired for running controversial pieces; books are withdrawn for alleged inauthenticity; journalists are barred from writing on certain topics; professors are investigated for quoting works of literature in class; a researcher is fired for circulating a peer-reviewed academic study; and the heads of organizations are ousted for what are sometimes just clumsy mistakes.

The real threat to freedom of speech is not about youtube videos or social media. Those are just the outward symptoms of what is going on in the institutions of society.

your posts also highlighted things about people editing quote to make it seem like hitler was a trans-phobe and other books about white supremacy. bla blah blah

ok i get it. you are crying that certain things are being surpressed.
ok i get it you want to shout for the sake of shouting because you have examples of how in history people were made to shut up and people were not given the platform/microphone they wanted

you do know that just because you have a typewriter does not then mean your auto awarded a book publishing deal or a job at a news paper
just be cause your a newspaper writer. doesnt mean not matter what you say it should be automatically be printed.
just because you wrote a theory. doesnt mean you automatically deserve it being peer reviewed
..
(modern version) just because you have a webcam doesnt mean your videos then deserve to be on youtube

the 'cancel culture' is a millenial buzzword and is very much about social media of millenials thinking they deserve and think its a right to have stupid videos published and watched by billions by default

..
but what is more important is not arguing about the platform or microphone method of getting a message out being the problem. but instead the actual message involved.

i see too many people who are just highlighting this 'advocating for free speach' but when asking them what important message do you have they just say 'no one can hear me speak'
circling an endless and meaninless campaign of crying.

so forget arguing about past stuff.. time travel is impossible. so dont waste the present time on the past.
if you have a REAL message.
dont think you auto deserve a platform to voice it.
dont cry that your not having access to such platforms
instead actually understand the message you want to make and then actually go and do something.

for instance. talk to politicians direct. dont b*tch about them on blogs/forums about how they are not listening or viewing you blog. actually talk to them
dont be ambiguous, dont talk to those just about 'speaking'/'being heard' problems in society

instead get right to the matter
is it racism, homophobia, education. PICK ONE

by being too broad, trying to talk about books and social media and peer reviews. all your just doing is crying that certain times peoples idea's are not becoming famous.
but your not addressing the idea itself of each example.
all you are doing is trying to sound like you want the world to have free access to bookdeals/ free conference stage time. free access to social media.

and politics knows thats a NON-government business for profit thing. so nothing to do with them
if book companies or stores want to recall a product. they can. if a conference wants to cancel a speaker and invite someone else up to the mic. they can.
so dont waste time on the platform blame drama.
instead find out WHAT THE MESSAGE/IDEA/THEORY IS and if it contains solutions and actually knows the causes of problems and it actually knows who it should target to get change. then use different ways of getting the message out.

again. dont just cry that a message is not being heard because a certain platform removed it.
if a book is recalled. turn it into a movie/documentary/podcast and use a different method/platform
if its a news item. then work out who the news concerns. and direct messages at them.

but if its just about getting viewcounts/readers just for the sake of notoriety of being seen/read. then your wasting your time.

dont get me wrong..
i understand that capitalism is powerful and these book publishers decide who they let publish
the capitalism of news media only wanting fluff pieces that pander to their elite friends.
peer reviews that pander to getting grants and notoriety, but real invention/innovation gets locked up in patents and NDA's

i do get it and i dislike it too.
but if your only message is how the capitalist/elitests are not letting you use their business platform. you really are missing the point.

liberalism is not about reliance on capitalists as a stage/platform.
liberalism/libertarians are self sufficient and find their own path. do things for themselves
they dont want reliance on others or asking permission.

so find a real message/idea/innovation/problem(and solution) and actually act on it more direct.
not complain or cry that others are not supporting your idea and not making it auto famous

[Viper1]

Some of the fallout so far from that letter.

https://youtu.be/nN3B_q40RyY

[KingScorpio]

https://harpers.org/a-letter-on-justice-and-open-debate/

I know of a few of the people that signed on as I've been listening to their yt videos on this topic for awhile now. That list could have been a hell of a lot longer so will be interesting to see if others step out from the shadows and add their voice to the message in some other ways. This is a real issue that affects everyone on both sides of the political spectrum and it needs voices from both sides to speak out and stop burying their heads in the sand. This isn't just a US issue either. It's all western nations and it's pervaded every aspect of our societies.

there will never be absolute free speech,

it will be limited,

by religion,

finance,

social support,

and antiracism.