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jackg (OP)
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July 12, 2020, 01:18:09 AM
 #1

Not sure how I'd enact this but could we have a system whereby if a topic is made by a newbie who intends to scam or something and it's reported can it be hidden from all members who aren't full members (it could also require a reporter to have earnt more than a certain merit threshold or have a certain % accuracy ie 80% or above).

Why now?
I think at the moment we're alright with a lot of things as there aren't many newbies coming here and the flow is probably pretty constant but I think it might be helpful for if we see another spike in the btc price and people become more interested and lose all or some of their funds to scammers. Scamming tactics are becoming more advanced and use things such as plugins as apposed to old versions of scams that were ponzis or asked you to send funds to an address - now consent has been completely removed and it could scare people away from the crypto space.

It also gives an incentive for non mods to scour the patrol page for anything worthy of deletion.

The thread could either then - once handled by a mod - be returned back to the list of threads or be bumped to the top with a slight change of algorithm (or time change on the post) so it can get attention if it was incorrectly reported.
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July 12, 2020, 02:03:41 AM
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 #2

I think giving non-mods the ability to censor users is a bad idea.

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July 12, 2020, 03:18:52 AM
Last edit: July 12, 2020, 03:44:42 AM by Yogee
Merited by jackg (1)
 #3

What you are proposing is like having a quarantine room or board where all reported posts made by newbie members with alleged malicious links will go. Is it not enough to report, tag and flag these members? How about not allowing them to post links?

 

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July 12, 2020, 03:56:06 AM
 #4

Not sure how I'd enact this but could we have a system whereby if a topic is made by a newbie who intends to scam or something and it's reported can it be hidden from all members who aren't full members (it could also require a reporter to have earnt more than a certain merit threshold or have a certain % accuracy ie 80% or above).
.......
It also gives an incentive for non mods to scour the patrol page for anything worthy of deletion.
.......

This is a bad idea as giving non-moderator an incentive would simply boost rank abuse and disparagements. You are simply saying that there must be rank separation whereas higher ranks could have a much more power in the forum while those newbie whom are trying to learn something out of this forum can have less. Reporting and posting a thread with valid evidences in reputation is enough as long as the report were accurate. Also, it is not the forum's fault whenever there were people whom still bites on a scam, there are board particularly for accusations, it only depends on the user's initiative.
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July 12, 2020, 04:05:23 AM
 #5

What you are proposing is like having a quarantine room or board where all reported posts made by newbie members with alleged malicious links will go. Is it not enough to report, tag and flag these members? How about not allowing them to post links?

 

Not allowing users to post link is a great suggestion!

I'd maybe add not letting newbies lock their own threads either as soon as they're created so other members can warn of what's happening. Removing posts based on them being reported and awaiting moderation is done on a lot of other sites and I don't think it censors the user from anyone but other new users once the post has been reported and I did stipulate the user had to be of high rank and high quality of reports... Just something to consider if it were to be added discretely....

It should be the wider bitcoin community's job to ensure that new users start their path on a positive experience if we want people to stay and mods are pretty fast so the thread being returned to its normal state would only be a few hours max.
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July 12, 2020, 05:00:45 AM
 #6

I'd maybe add not letting newbies lock their own threads either as soon as they're created so other members can warn of what's happening.

If that's combined with not allowing self-mod threads - it might work. Well, it will encourage them to farm or buy at least one merit to get up to Jr. Member but anything that raises the cost of entry for scammers without compromising basic newbie needs (e.g. asking a newbie question or appealing a ban) is a good thing.
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July 12, 2020, 05:01:22 AM
 #7

What you are proposing is like having a quarantine room or board where all reported posts made by newbie members with alleged malicious links will go. Is it not enough to report, tag and flag these members? How about not allowing them to post links?

 

Not allowing users to post link is a great suggestion!


This is a bad idea because not all Newbies come here to scam. Many newbies come here to post the link of their services and come with a marketing point of view for their legit projects. We cannot disallow newbies to post the links. There are other methods to tackle the scam by reporting and tagging which is also efficient method.
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July 12, 2020, 05:29:00 AM
 #8

I'd maybe add not letting newbies lock their own threads either as soon as they're created
I suggested this on the other thread where the scammers created multiple topics across various boards and locked the threads immediately after making them to censor any reply;
A suggestion is to restrict topics from being locked until xx hours after it was made. This could be limited to brand-new/newbie accounts
This would not really affect the regular users and if they do get the answer to their query quicker than the restricted time they can report their posts to be locked by mods.

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July 12, 2020, 06:31:06 AM
 #9

I'd maybe add not letting newbies lock their own threads either as soon as they're created
I suggested this on the other thread where the scammers created multiple topics across various boards and locked the threads immediately after making them to censor any reply;
A suggestion is to restrict topics from being locked until xx hours after it was made. This could be limited to brand-new/newbie accounts
This would not really affect the regular users and if they do get the answer to their query quicker than the restricted time they can report their posts to be locked by mods.

There can be two new rules implemented for Newbies account which can solve most of these issues.  First newbies should not be allowed to create a self moderated thread and secondly newbies should not be allowed to lock the thread for 48 hours. Completely denying to lock the thread created by newbie can also lead to spam posts so 48 hrs is a reasonable time.

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July 12, 2020, 11:05:36 AM
 #10

Scamming tactics are becoming more advanced and use things such as plugins as apposed to old versions of scams that were ponzis or asked you to send funds to an address - now consent has been completely removed and it could scare people away from the crypto space.

This does not mean that the old methods no longer work, on the contrary, if we believe the research that says that only one scam who used the name Elon Musk achieved as much as 215 BTC in less than 3 months. And it's just about sending a certain amount to an address with the promise that you will get double the amount back.

Not sure how I'd enact this but could we have a system whereby if a topic is made by a newbie who intends to scam or something and it's reported can it be hidden from all members who aren't full members (it could also require a reporter to have earnt more than a certain merit threshold or have a certain % accuracy ie 80% or above).

I think that the reports are being resolved fairly quickly, and that the scammers on this forum don't have much time to realize their ideas. Newbie should definitely have some restrictions, but their posts shouldn't disappear just because someone reported it.

It might be wise to have some kind of warning above every post written by a newbie, and to protect those who are not logged in, maybe newbie accounts and their posts should be hidden?

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July 12, 2020, 12:43:13 PM
Last edit: July 12, 2020, 01:10:11 PM by UserU
 #11

Not allowing users to post link is a great suggestion!

Not possible though. A newbie could always skirt the rules like posting as such:
link.com
link[.]com
"link.com" (remove quotes)

...and the list goes on.

EDIT: Forgot that post was a sarcasm Grin

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InvoKing
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July 12, 2020, 01:02:10 PM
 #12

Am a little bit outdated but isn't this what the giant red flag system at the beginning of scammy topic is for?
I imagined the topic was about hiding the reported posts in your side to avoid reporting it twice by mistake.

PSPD:law and order enforcement!
Press Section Police Department!
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July 12, 2020, 01:43:46 PM
 #13

This could be used in the wrong way even if you put some kind of qualification there where only a selected few has the ability to hide their posts when they report it. I agree with what OGnasty has said and you are giving these people the ability to censor posts even before the judgement of the MODs themseves, it's like you are already giving them the power to delete a post even before they are judged by a Mod. Maybe the best thing to do this is after reporting them to a MOD is just tagging the user so that people will know that there is a pending accusation against him. Still this is not the best idea but this is more better compared to censoring users while they are being reported.
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July 12, 2020, 05:06:25 PM
 #14

A red tag or a flag is enough, imo, to avoid any possibility of abuse or falling in censoring newbies because of misjudgements.
If in some boards mods take to long to handle reports then the appropriate action would be adding more more mids. don't know if theymos has any statics regarding each mod's response time to reports!

Or maybe adding a feature allowing to flag a report as "urgent" so any available mod even locals can see it and handle it.

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July 12, 2020, 10:11:33 PM
 #15

A newbie (or anyone) scamming is not a reason to report a post, and posts reported as such will be marked as bad.

If someone is scamming, you can write a post warning onlookers of the scam, leave a negative rating, create a flag, or a multiple of the above.

I might be supportive of the ability of certain users to be able to override the "lock" status of threads opened by low-level users, if the purpose is to warn about a possible scam, or high risk proposition.
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July 12, 2020, 11:22:35 PM
 #16

This is a bad idea because not all Newbies come here to scam. Many newbies come here to post the link of their services and come with a marketing point of view for their legit projects. We cannot disallow newbies to post the links. There are other methods to tackle the scam by reporting and tagging which is also efficient method.

Afaik newbies aren't already allowed to post in the marketplace section?

I'd maybe add not letting newbies lock their own threads either as soon as they're created
I suggested this on the other thread where the scammers created multiple topics across various boards and locked the threads immediately after making them to censor any reply;
A suggestion is to restrict topics from being locked until xx hours after it was made. This could be limited to brand-new/newbie accounts
This would not really affect the regular users and if they do get the answer to their query quicker than the restricted time they can report their posts to be locked by mods.
There can be two new rules implemented for Newbies account which can solve most of these issues.  First newbies should not be allowed to create a self moderated thread and secondly newbies should not be allowed to lock the thread for 48 hours. Completely denying to lock the thread created by newbie can also lead to spam posts so 48 hrs is a reasonable time.

Yeah mods are pretty responsive to thread locking and once someone gets an answer, people don't really have much of a reason to post unelss they can see the problem hasn't been solved... And a 12-48 hour window would seem reasonable as *most* requests are resolved within that time.

This does not mean that the old methods no longer work, on the contrary, if we believe the research that says that only one scam who used the name Elon Musk achieved as much as 215 BTC in less than 3 months. And it's just about sending a certain amount to an address with the promise that you will get double the amount back.
I was thinking more the scam that was documented quite a bit on the meta section yesterday where users have to install plugins and such. Some novices to cryptocurrency may come here thinkng they know a lot about stuff when really they're probably the most at risk.

There's the curve of perceived intellect v actual intellect that goes a bit like having a sheer climb, a sheer drop off and a steady climb back up to below original perceived intellect. Thus it'd be making the drop quite a bit less dramatic for malware scams or similar.

It might be wise to have some kind of warning above every post written by a newbie, and to protect those who are not logged in, maybe newbie accounts and their posts should be hidden?

I had thought of something like this but I'm sure the investor based games board has this and some newbies just won't read what's directluy in front of them if it doesn't look like part of the thread - maybe it could be preseneted as part of the message like is done with PMs...

It would be abused or misused, even by those who have earned lots of merit with high report quantity/accuracy. For example,
1. posts which suggest that certain faketoshi might be real Satoshi
2. suggestion by newbie that looks like misleading/fake suggestion, unless you actually understand the topic

I don't think a 4 hour block on posts would do very much. I also had a draft of my response to this which said that this could be stealthily implemented so no one (or very few) actually know about it.

(slightly off topic: for all we get people talking about how they want bitcoin to be fully anonymous - and tbh it would be an improvement - it's kinda ironic loads of people want to know who the original founder was. Although I was probably curious at first).

Not allowing users to post link is a great suggestion!

Not possible though. A newbie could always skirt the rules like posting as such:
link.com
link[.]com
"link.com" (remove quotes)

...and the list goes on.

EDIT: Forgot that post was a sarcasm Grin

I label my sarcasm on this forum.
However, I did realise the suspicious link removed tags are still in force in a lot of the forum (but it doens't pick up everything - hence why I thought it was an idea to make this thread).
Unless you're saying your post was sarcasm.

Also trying to block out a dot will end up with people having trouble following the link and might make them wonder why someone's done that in the first place...

Am a little bit outdated but isn't this what the giant red flag system at the beginning of scammy topic is for?
I imagined the topic was about hiding the reported posts in your side to avoid reporting it twice by mistake.

I thought these warnings were only given in the marketplace, where newbs can't post. Also warning messages and trust flags aren't completely obvious (though I check people's feedback on a person rather than anythign else so I might not be the best to ask about this one).

A newbie (or anyone) scamming is not a reason to report a post, and posts reported as such will be marked as bad.
I have about 8 reports to prove otherwise and I'm not an avid reporter.

I might be supportive of the ability of certain users to be able to override the "lock" status of threads opened by low-level users, if the purpose is to warn about a possible scam, or high risk proposition.
This is another potential solution that might work too. Although it might also be abused and commenting on a topic might desuade a mod from deleting the topic (but I dunno).
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July 12, 2020, 11:29:07 PM
 #17

A newbie (or anyone) scamming is not a reason to report a post, and posts reported as such will be marked as bad.
I have about 8 reports to prove otherwise and I'm not an avid reporter.
I don't know the details as to why these threads were deleted. My understanding is that scams are not moderated.
Quote
I might be supportive of the ability of certain users to be able to override the "lock" status of threads opened by low-level users, if the purpose is to warn about a possible scam, or high risk proposition.
This is another potential solution that might work too. Although it might also be abused and commenting on a topic might desuade a mod from deleting the topic (but I dunno).
There can be special rules put into place to allow for only certain content to be in these types of posts. These posts could also optionally be used as a stopgap before a moderator has a chance to review a report.

Another option could be to allow the option to make a report public before it is handled, maybe anonymously. This might only be an option under certain circumstances, based on the rank of the reporter, the number of accurate reports of the reporter, and the rank of the user being reported.
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July 13, 2020, 12:26:15 AM
 #18

A newbie (or anyone) scamming is not a reason to report a post, and posts reported as such will be marked as bad.
I have about 8 reports to prove otherwise and I'm not an avid reporter.
I don't know the details as to why these threads were deleted. My understanding is that scams are not moderated.

Malware scams are moderated with extreme prejudice. I believe jackg might be referring to the recent wave of fake NitrogenSports extension scam.
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July 13, 2020, 12:34:55 AM
 #19

A newbie (or anyone) scamming is not a reason to report a post, and posts reported as such will be marked as bad.
I have about 8 reports to prove otherwise and I'm not an avid reporter.
I don't know the details as to why these threads were deleted. My understanding is that scams are not moderated.

Malware scams are moderated with extreme prejudice. I believe jackg might be referring to the recent wave of fake NitrogenSports extension scam.

Yeah it was that one. This is why the who idea I had came about because people might not realise how much a plug in can actually do and I don't like installing them - I HAD to install mew to use it and quickly uninstalled it afterwards... Some people might not be as vigilant and might not know that some plugins can edit space.

In reference to mew, I don't think uninstalling a plug in can completely remove everything which is why I barely use the browser I added it to anymore.
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