Let's talk decentralization: Internet power and electricity are centralized

[PaperWallet]

Hello everyone,
I am somewhat new to the crypto world (few months).
This is rather a question for long term investors, who think and plan about when to start getting out of crypto. Of course crypto is wonderful but wonderful doesn't mean it can't be killed. We've seen how governments synchronize together in lockdowns, same timetables for letting people out... Who would have thought this could happen? Having multiple governments doesn't mean they can't synchronize together in decisions.
Now, under some new threat, like terrorism as an example, to prevent crypto currency exchange between people, the whole internet could be shut off. Why not? They only give us TV updates. Paying with credit cards? no problem, a new network could be put in place, like internet version 2.0, only available in stores. I basically searched but found no project that calculated for this possibility.

Now I hope not of course, some projects like Cardano are well suited for regulations, so I hope they just start regulating things and not just shut off the whole thing.

But, this post only asks one question: What are the signs you will be looking for such a scenario to happen?

Thank you in advance for anyone who has worked on this subject and is willing to share

[tsaroz]

Internet itself is the real hurdle for true decentralization and freedom. Internet is hugely controllable and it acts as a spying tools for different agencies. No doubt US has the larger control over internet and they collect it to spy over their own citizen and foreign nationals. For the same exact reason, many countries have created a firewall that restricts direct data transfer while it helps them collect the data within their own citizens. Russia and China are a good example of it. Their internet is not exactly a different one from the rest but is semi-disconnected and they are developing in to semi-autonomous but still things like domains is controlled by US through ICANN and spywares like google and apple suite.

[asder250]

The Internet is decentralized, LAN is centralized. If you think about it, you can turn off the internet by switching off some servers? Probably not, so it is decentralized, there is no entity that owns the internet and could make changes without the consent of others.

[PaperWallet]

The Internet is decentralized, LAN is centralized. If you think about it, you can turn off the internet by switching off some servers? Probably not, so it is decentralized, there is no entity that owns the internet and could make changes without the consent of others.

Then how did they plain and simple shut off internet at some point in all of Iran? I don't know, I'm not an expert in the domain, but I've already seen it happen

[Slow death]

talking about electricity, governments have full control and every year they create more laws to get more control, people can create decentralized currencies and electricity will always be centralized and controlled by governments. Now that does not mean that governments turn off electricity to end cryptocurrencies, because that would affect other sectors, but they can prevent mining of altcoins if they want to

[H1N1]

Indeed, the internet and electricity are centralized because they are not free, there must be some people/company to maintain it.
Unless we can create free electricity and build world network without internet (LAN network across the world maybe ?) , we cannot achieve a true decentralization of internet and electricity.

[Ucy]

This is one of reasons a Blockchain/decentralized tech should be as decentralized & light as possible, just in case such global shut down happens... You could simply detach from the large network, continue using your decentralized tech and cryptocurrency/token locally without the rest of global network until it's possible to join the network again.
You could also use some physical decentralized tech that can exist completely without the internet.

talking about electricity, governments have full control and every year they create more laws to get more control, people can create decentralized currencies and electricity will always be centralized and controlled by governments. Now that does not mean that governments turn off electricity to end cryptocurrencies, because that would affect other sectors, but they can prevent mining of altcoins if they want to

How about the electric generators, or people generating their own electricity without the government? Are those illegal in certain countries? Where I live, lots of people would normally generate their own electricity, have their own well/borehole for water, etc.. I don't see why that should not be so if done safely

[PaperWallet]

A very interesting project from Cardano that could solve this problem: https://cointelegraph.com/news/cardano-is-working-on-a-microchip-that-would-give-crypto-a-cash-like-experience

So if they do this we need no internet (well, for electricity, we can always get private generators, not very expensive honestly).

But the question is this cash going to be the Cardano crypto? (ADA)

[ife2020]

To be honest i want to believe that the centralization of the internet and electricity has nothing to do with the decentralization that blockchain brings. Even if the government absorbs blockchain and crypto currency with its decentralization, it can only apply as a payment alternative. Always dyor

[electronicash]

To be honest i want to believe that the centralization of the internet and electricity has nothing to do with the decentralization that blockchain brings. Even if the government absorbs blockchain and crypto currency with its decentralization, it can only apply as a payment alternative. Always dyor

blockchain will just have a degree of decentralization. just as how p2p files sharing is that no one can interfere until the seeders and leechers stops. it doesn't have to control everything to be decentralize unless we wanna disable everything in this world.

government just have to handle what they can handle. if they don't accept crypto then all should just be interfering are just transactions from blockchain to fiat like the LBC or exchanges to banks and remittances and the likes.

[jossiel]

If the government already intervenes with the projects and they have a lot of suggestions for which the project isn't telling anything but just following the orders.

That's the time that it's losing its decentralization. Just like the delisting of Monero in different exchanges, instead of just allowing it to be there, they have something against it because they see it as a threat.

[Argoo]

Our world cannot be completely decentralized. It should have general rules of behavior so that there is no chaos and the interests of the individual are respected. At the same time, each person should have the right to choose, the right to express their opinion and the right to personal space. That is, for the harmonious development of a person, a balance must be observed between personal and general, centralization and decentralization.
Any new inventions, new technologies should be controlled by the society or the state on its behalf. In all other cases, abuse and use of the new to the detriment of a person will inevitably begin.
So my question is: can the Internet be completely decentralized? For this, a person needs to be perfect and self-sufficient, which can never be.

[Ozero]

Our world cannot be completely decentralized. It should have general rules of behavior so that there is no chaos and the interests of the individual are respected. At the same time, each person should have the right to choose, the right to express their opinion and the right to personal space. That is, for the harmonious development of a person, a balance must be observed between personal and general, centralization and decentralization.
Any new inventions, new technologies should be controlled by the society or the state on its behalf. In all other cases, abuse and use of the new to the detriment of a person will inevitably begin.
So my question is: can the Internet be completely decentralized? For this, a person needs to be perfect and self-sufficiePnt, which can never be.

In general, of course, you are right. Centralization or decentralization cannot be absolute. To avoid distortions in one direction or the other, a certain balance must be observed between them.
The Internet, since it always assumes mass use, cannot be completely decentralized. Electricity can be decentralized, provided that its creation and consumption is personal. The use of solar panels allows this. If we are talking about a common electrical network, then at least partial centralization of control should be mandatory.

[cryptomaniac_xxx]

I don't think that shutting down the whole internet is not really possible as it is decentralized. It will take a lot of efforts from governments around the world to collude with each other, they could be successful in just a couple of hours, (best case scenario that I see). But Blockstream has proven already that you can sent bitcoin from space via satellite.

https://twitter.com/Excellion/status/1284315644096180224

[mindrust]

Bitcoin transactions are decentralized but other parts of bitcoin are not so.

Transactions will always go through because the miners don't know who you are and don't care where the money is coming from, but governments can track the bitcoin addresses and they also control the exchanges (even the dex's) because exchanges operate on countries. The price of bitcoin is controlled too. (See tether)

Still, if you know where to cash out your money it is a good alternative to the legacy banking.

[hatshepsut93]

Electricity centralization - you could always generate your own electricity with various portable power generators or renewables like solar panels or even geotermal generator. Computers and smartphones don't consume that much power, so it won't be too much of a problem with some preparation.

For the Internet, the best tool is satellite ISPs. And even if you don't have it, there are Blockstream satellites for doing Bitcoin transactions, free of charge.

[so98nn]

like internet version 2.0, only available in stores. I basically searched but found no project that calculated for this possibility.

That answers it all. It will never happen. Despite the fact that setting internet connection around the globe was most complex thing. There wont be any Internet 2.0 with different internet running on the same frequencies, wires, data cables whatsoever.

Things that will hamper if internet got shut off world wide?

People, Businesses, Stock-exchanges, Banking sectors, World-wide connectivity, Military communications, Satellites, Smartphones, it's like almost every damn thing will be useless without it!

Building a kill switch is not easy, however. The larger and more developed the country, the harder it is to shut down the internet completely ­– there are simply too many connections between networks both inside and outside national borders.

^{[What if internet stopped for one day]}

Just look at the data how thing went off the chart since 1998 to 2917 and how internet is everywhere! ^{[Reference Article Here]} If you seriously want to shut it off then it will create chaos upto the warfare!



My only concern is no governement would want to do that in the first place. Since for the above reason !


Decentralisation and centralisation is not even in the list if you discussing these things.

At least we have assurance that bitcoin and other crypto world will breath easily unless and until it net is not shut off.

[audaciousbeing]

Your concerns is really right. I have read about a country whose internet was shut down by the government because of election and another one because a coup was going on. This act showed that for the simple fact that blockchain relied on internet to function makes it suspectible to such control. In times past, I equally held the believe that it's not possible because of several factors we all thought of but with COVID19, it made some things possible which means that while government would not come out outrightly to shut down anything, they would attach it to an event or occurrence which everyone would be forced to agree with while those who refuses will be vilified.

[semobo]

Hello everyone,
I am somewhat new to the crypto world (few months).
This is rather a question for long term investors, who think and plan about when to start getting out of crypto. Of course crypto is wonderful but wonderful doesn't mean it can't be killed. We've seen how governments synchronize together in lockdowns, same timetables for letting people out... Who would have thought this could happen? Having multiple governments doesn't mean they can't synchronize together in decisions.
Now, under some new threat, like terrorism as an example, to prevent crypto currency exchange between people, the whole internet could be shut off. Why not? They only give us TV updates. Paying with credit cards? no problem, a new network could be put in place, like internet version 2.0, only available in stores. I basically searched but found no project that calculated for this possibility.

Now I hope not of course, some projects like Cardano are well suited for regulations, so I hope they just start regulating things and not just shut off the whole thing.

But, this post only asks one question: What are the signs you will be looking for such a scenario to happen?

Thank you in advance for anyone who has worked on this subject and is willing to share

Internet is somewhat centralized because they uses satellites to provide internet connections but to be honest its impossible to track every usage of internet users since it has lot of layers and lot more ways to hide identity so internet can't be stopped just to stop the crypto related activities.They may shut down the wesbites but still everything can be done i the darkweb without need of government regulations.

[PaperWallet]

Thank you everyone for your contributions they were all useful to me. But honestly if you wanna know the truth... It will DEFINITELY happen at some point, for a small or long period of time (in my opinion)
Military, banks, etc how do you know they're not building their own networks to prepare for an internet shutdown? It's not only for crypto, it's for people who also want alternative media, etc We will basically be left with phones, and as long as audiovisual technology is concerned we'll only have government TVs.

After all, if they can lock you down and you loose your job because you have 1 in a thousand chance to have COVID and 1 in a 100000 chance of somebody dying because of it, they can kick you out of the internet because you have 1 in a million chance of transmitting terrorist messages.