[SCAM] Sportsbet.io (Withholding funds) [dispute settled]

[efialtis]

I agree with all @efialtis said on this topic.

As a long time user of Sportsbet I can't believe they would try to scam somebody for 0.4 BTC. Heck they gave more than half of that to me as a reload bonus while I was high rolling there. They are very high on my trusted pages list and probably the most trusted gambling site.

Don't forget that only 0.1 BTC is players money, initial deposit. Rest between 0.1 and 0.4 is profit from gambling. Also, the house wants to give the initial deposit back to him, obviously not accepting his bets and winnings.
He is already withdrawing money from Sportsbet casino, but now they are stuck there. not the first time we see users who've accused casino but at the end, they cheated his promotion.
Anyway, I don't want to defend any side there, but I did not see enough evidence that casino trying to scam someone here.

Only 0.1 BTC is players money? Really? Because that's his deposit? Couldn't disagree more - the minute you win it, it's yours of course - that's the reason why people gamble in the first place and the business model?

[1715337719]

1715337719

[1715337719]

1715337719

[examplens]

Only 0.1 BTC is players money? Really? Because that's his deposit? Couldn't disagree more - the minute you win it, it's yours of course - that's the reason why people gamble in the first place and the business model?

apparently they are disputing the way he made the profit. If they get profit using fraud method, it’s the same as if he stole it.
I assume that all casinos have the same rule if you cheat, you can't win. Player still has the option to get his money, and will not be at a loss.

In any case, we can only to speculate, I would like to see the casino's side of the story.

[buwaytress]

Does sound like a tough case for OP but I know if he has a case, it will be listened out and there will be a conclusion, one way or other.

To all those saying Google searches are full of hits on scams, I don't disagree, but you'll find the same for any popular site. Whether or not these claims are justified, I generally believe in reputation -- not just of the one being accused, but of the accusers. In my experience, those with genuine claims will go through an arbitrator (if they're not satisfactorily handled as I'm sure SB will with OP's case). Those with no authentic claims tend to use reputation blackmail.

I'm not for blindly defending anyone, and I certainly have been a benefactor of SB so my opinion's not objective, but I'd recommend anyone who has a case and can't find a conclusion to seek a recognized arbitrator like AskGamblers to open a case. Be prepared to provide all evidence and then accept the ones against you, if any. AskGamblers is probably the most respected arbitrator in this space. Mind you, they do view SB as a highly trustworthy name in the space, as they have resolved countless cases against SB already, and found their decisions to be warranted.

[neymarjr12]

Only 0.1 BTC is players money? Really? Because that's his deposit? Couldn't disagree more - the minute you win it, it's yours of course - that's the reason why people gamble in the first place and the business model?

apparently they are disputing the way he made the profit. If they get profit using fraud method, it’s the same as if he stole it.
I assume that all casinos have the same rule if you cheat, you can't win. Player still has the option to get his money, and will not be at a loss.

In any case, we can only to speculate, I would like to see the casino's side of the story.

I made around 30 bets, on different sports, different events, live and pre-match - what kind of fraud method to get my profit do you mean?
https://ibb.co/xqm4NRJ
https://ibb.co/VHS4jps
https://ibb.co/DkVmXBG
https://ibb.co/pWyKsSf
https://ibb.co/YjnqJT9
https://ibb.co/1mcBgmn
https://ibb.co/G3wVyTS

[sportsbet.io]

Hi Guys,

This matter has been discussed on an ongoing basis between the player and our relevant Sportsbook department.

Based on the initial information we had at hand, we decided to lock the account temporarily and contact the player to ask for more information on some matters.

We have asked several questions of the player, on many different email chains. We are not confident in the credibility of the answers vs the information we have at hand.

The decision was made to keep the account closed and refund the customer the difference between the deposits and withdrawals (102mbtc)

On no less than 4 occasions we have requested the customer to provide their nominated bitcoin wallet address so we can send back the money.
these emails date back a couple of weeks, so this is not a new request.

Regardless of the player is happy with the decision of closing their account or not, this is a decision that under the circumstances will not be reversed and the player will have the same amount of money they started with.

Occasion number 5: Neymarjr12: Can you please email back your desired bitcoin wallet address so we can return you the 102 mbtc. This will be done as soon as you send the details.

Thank you for your time all.

In the interest of serving other sportsbet.io customers evenly and fairly, I won't be allocating any more time to this matter. I trust you understand.

regards,

Steve,
Sportsbet.io
(edited)

[neymarjr12]

We have asked several questions of the player, on many different email chains. We are not very confident in the credibility of the answers vs the information we have at hand.

What questions? How am I linked to some 4 random accounts? I answered - I am not linked with them, never saw this nicknames before.
What information do you have in hand? Where is the evidence?

The decision was made to keep the account closed and refund the customer their initial deposit of 102 mbtc.

Why??? What is your proof? You cannot just decide for no reason.

On no less than 4 occasions we have requested the customer to provide their nominated bitcoin wallet address so we can send back the money.
these emails date back a couple of weeks, so this is not a new request.

I confirm receiving those e-mails, wrote about 102mBtc in the thread, but I disagree with your "decision" and want all of my money back.

Regardless of the player is happy with the decision of closing their account or not, this is a decision that under the circumstances will not be reversed and the player will have the same amount of money they started with.

What circumstances?

[SyGambler]

I have seen many similar cases like this before and I do believe that most of the times the site is right .
but this truly needs to change , once a site accuses a user of multi accounting they should provide him with all the findings about the case cause it doesn't look good at all this way

please @sportsbet.io share the details whenever someone is calling you out publicly , personally I do trust the site and I have made withdrawals much bigger than the amount in this case without any single problem ( I even won in promotions alone more than the amount claimed here )

it's safer this way for both players and community , especially that most of these cases start after users are winning which can be considered a freeroll try by the site ( you lose the site takes the money , you win we give you only your deposit back )

[neymarjr12]

I 100% believe he’s been multi accounting, hope to hear from sportsbet themselves to clarify this.

Did you get the clarification?
"We are not very confident in the credibility of the answers vs the information we have at hand"
Again, no clear explanation, no evidence provided, just vague phrases.
What is your opinion?

[acroman08]

I have seen many similar cases like this before and I do believe that most of the times the site is right .
but this truly needs to change , once a site accuses a user of multi accounting they should provide him with all the findings about the case cause it doesn't look good at all this way

please @sportsbet.io share the details whenever someone is calling you out publicly , personally I do trust the site and I have made withdrawals much bigger than the amount in this case without any single problem ( I even won in promotions alone more than the amount claimed here )

I agree with this. providing the website findings against the OP regarding this case should be shown to check its legitimacy.

it's safer this way for both players and community , especially that most of these cases start after users are winning which can be considered a freeroll try by the site ( you lose the site takes the money , you win we give you only your deposit back )

sounds like a traditional casino kicking out a gambler after winning too much

[actmyname]

Based on the initial information we had at hand, we decided to lock the account temporarily and contact the player to ask for more information on some matters.

We have asked several questions of the player, on many different email chains. We are not confident in the credibility of the answers vs the information we have at hand.

The decision was made to keep the account closed and refund the customer the difference between the deposits and withdrawals (102mbtc)

I won't be allocating any more time to this matter. I trust you understand.

This lackadaisical attitude is the kind of opaque operation that I joined Bitcoin to escape. Are gamblers expected to believe, "we had information and determined he is in the wrong," when the whole situation is a conflict of interest? Players don't know if the information you used to come to that conclusion is detailed or very loose: whether it hinges on something trite like IP addresses and geolocation or something more concrete like blockchain evidence and falsified KYC.

[efialtis]

Well, I was really hoping for this situation not to end like this... And everything I previously wrote still stands - this is unacceptable (as long as we are not missing something that has already been shared with OP in private).

I am still not sure who is right or wrong but this is just not good enough and "closing" a case just like this is far from professional.

The worst thing about all of that is:

1) I still can't believe Sportsbet would go shady for such amount
2) I have never had the SLIGHTEST problem
3) I am receiving/have received almost instant withdrawals of comparable amounts in the last couple of days

We need to be fair and objective though and from player perspective, it's anything but this...

[neymarjr12]

And everything I previously wrote still stands - this is unacceptable (as long as we are not missing something that has already been shared with OP in private).

I attached almost all of the emails in the first post - there is nothing to miss.
If they would have a good reason, they would post it here already.
I think the difference between me and most of other players is that I made some quick profit and started to withdraw it - they figured out that I won more than lost and blocked my account - this is the only logic I see.

[allyouracid]

sounds like a traditional casino kicking out a gambler after winning too much

Considering the amounts they regularly deal with, this is a ridiculous thing to assume.

But still, it would be nice if sportsbet.io would share their findings. Even if it's substantiated and you do have evidence, it's not okay to just come here and say "we don't put anymore time in this matter". People have questions.

@OP: Just fyi, there's much more they can do to identify multiple accounts, going far beyond the IP address. For example, every computer has a unique timestamp (no computer clock has the exact same time as another one). Matching such timestamps alone is a good way to identify multiaccounting. But also your browser, with all its addons, extensions, operating system it runs on etc gives a quite clear fingerprint.
So, even if someone switches IP in his VPN, there is still plenty of identifiable information when visiting a website.

[Trofo]

This matter has been discussed on an ongoing basis between the player and our relevant Sportsbook department.

Based on the initial information we had at hand, we decided to lock the account temporarily and contact the player to ask for more information on some matters.

We have asked several questions of the player, on many different email chains. We are not confident in the credibility of the answers vs the information we have at hand.

This answer is simply not good enough for us - gamblers who put their trust in Sporstbet as one of the industry leaders. I still believe you are right and the OP has probably breached the rules but Sporsbet should be able to provide some if not all evidence publicly. OP has written several times that he wants Sporsbet to publish that information, isn't that enough to clear you legally from GDPR or similar laws? If it isn't provide a pdf publicly and ask the op to sign it and than provide the evidance.

Situations like this hurt Sportsbet reputation and you should have some way to provide evidence to the community. As somebody already mentioned many of us are here on the forum and using crypto as a way to escape centralized entities who do whatever they like, ie. freeze our money without explanations. I understand there is need for actions like that in cases of fraudulent behavior but handling of such cases should be transparent, after all that is one of main selling points of bitcoin.

[jeremypwr]

I think the difference between me and most of other players is that I made some quick profit and started to withdraw it - they figured out that I won more than lost and blocked my account - this is the only logic I see

People win from time to time; so I don't believe that to be relevant here...

Furthermore, whatever their methods may be for detecting multi accounting; I don't think that they would reveal their strategy on a public forum.
Cyber security is no joke; and I would imagine that Sportsbet has probably invested heavily in it.

This guy was already connected to 3 other accounts.
I don't think that Sportsbet would just make that up; but who knows?

[AB de Royse777]

@jeremypwr, I responded your PM. You are free to respond here or continue in the PM.

@sportsbet.io, Steve sportsbet will not pay 0.373 BTC is something unbelievable to think considering the image they have created in this community and the gambling industry. But this is also true that since people still trust this community, and they come here to find justice, we the users who care for the forum and the community will do our best to help them instead of blindly trusting a service or person. I hope this make sense for you. Just to let you know, for me personally sportsbet and bitcasino are two sites I will keep at the top of my recommendation list. There are no doubt about it.

Let's be fair here, what if instead of OP, it was me? Do you think you would easily convince users that I am lying? Don't you think in that case we would see some nasty fight to prove each others right? Either you would lose the battle or I would.

Question here:
If IP is your only tool to find connected account then this is very weak investigation.

If this is not only IP then pick some trusted users from this thread who already commented in here, who are not biased, doing things from a neutral position. Pick me, actmyname, Trofo, SyGambler. Share your private investigation with us and let us convinced that your investigation is right.


Edit: actmyname, Trofo, SyGambler I hope you guys will have no problem to invest some of your free time for the community if Steve actually share the methods with us.

Edit again:
I would add buwaytress too. Sorry I missed you buddy.

Also, sorry jeremypwr and LFC_Bitcoin not to considering you since I already see some biased opinion from you two. I hope you all understand what we want from this thread. It's not against sportsbet or any casino or service it's about showing us some evidence instead of asking us to believe where other party seems to make sense too.

[LFC_Bitcoin]

@Royse, I understand what you’re saying.

I just can’t see in any way, shape or form why they’d even bother with all this hassle for such a small amount if they weren’t absolutely 100% confident in what they discovered (multi accounting).

I wouldn't be surprised if Steve revokes his free all expense paid trips when the world goes back to normal.
He was planning to fly out like 10 people a few months ago before Covid; that would cost much more than .3 BTC.
Forget your free weekly .3 BTC Multi Master.  Do you think they really need to give away that much money weekly?
Fuck no they don't, but it's how they give back to our community. 

[efialtis]

@Royse, I understand what you’re saying.

I just can’t see in any way, shape or form why they’d even bother with all this hassle for such a small amount if they weren’t absolutely 100% confident in what they discovered (multi accounting).

I wouldn't be surprised if Steve revokes his free all expense paid trips when the world goes back to normal.
He was planning to fly out like 10 people a few months ago before Covid; that would cost much more than .3 BTC.
Forget your free weekly .3 BTC Multi Master.  Do you think they really need to give away that much money weekly?
Fuck no they don't, but it's how they give back to our community.  

All of that is highly appreciated, of course, by any real user of our community here and we can't thank them enough. Still, being generous most of the time does not justify what's going on here - two completely different things. Last but not least - Sportsbet's awesome promotions for our bitcointalk community are the reason why all of us have trust in them but and here is the big but - it's also not a bad move tactically, is it? I mean, would we still be discussing this if it was another operator or would we have already seen some heavy flags?

Yeah - I am repeating myself - I do not see why they would go through all of this or let me put it this way - why they are going through all of this.

The facts are:

Player X makes relatively big deposits and can wager with no problem at all
Player X wins a good amount of money
Player X wants to make a withdrawal and his account is blocked
Player X is supposedly abusing via multi-accounting and asked to go through KYC
Player X is doing full KYC
Operator states he doesn't believe Player X's story, confiscates any winnings and offers to return the deposit (for which Player X should be thankful) - all of that without providing any evidence at all
Operator states case is closed, no more statement - just like that

Yeah, no good...

[AB de Royse777]

I wouldn't be surprised if Steve revokes his free all expense paid trips when the world goes back to normal.
He was planning to fly out like 10 people a few months ago before Covid; that would cost much more than .3 BTC.
Forget your free weekly .3 BTC Multi Master.  Do you think they really need to give away that much money weekly?
Fuck no they don't, but it's how they give back to our community.  

To make it public, I was one of the guy who Steve asked. For some reason I had to pass the opportunity. In my calculation for per person it will possibly cost him around 1 BTC. I get it buddy but understand that this is not about only trusting a service or a person, it's about being fair to the accusation that was made in public, this is about the trust people put in this forum to find justice. This is about the community and this is bigger than everything else in here.

Personally if you ask me to recommend a gambling site to you or anyone - sportsbet and bitcasino is at the top of my list.

if they weren’t absolutely 100% confident in what they discovered (multi accounting).

I hope they are absolutely 100% correct but if they come up with saying that they found match with IP address then I will not accept it as absolute. Those of us who use VPN they know how it works. I would like to know what other methods they have to find a match and want to see that in this case they found a 100% match.

[LFC_Bitcoin]

My last post on this now -

Bitcasino.io & sportsbet.io are the same people. A week or two ago some guy claimed he won 171BTC on bitcasino.io, he claimed bitcasino.io locked his account & were refusing to pay him - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5260832.msg54754514#msg54754514

Any way, lots of posters were doubting bitcasino.io, thinking the guy was genuine. It turned out he was a scammer,  finding vulnerabilities in games. He was apparently well known on multiple casinos for doing the same.

Any way, we’ll see what happens but I’m 100% confident in sportsbet.io & I trust them.

Edit - Trust me, if bitcasino or sportsbet ever scammed anybody I’d remove my sig straight away. My account is worth more to me than they pay me.