[SCAM] Sportsbet.io (Withholding funds) [dispute settled]

[AB de Royse777]

Edit - Trust me, if bitcasino or sportsbet ever scammed anybody I’d remove my sig straight away. My account is worth more to me than they pay me.

I trust you on this buddy. Please do not take it that way. Here we are sharing our views to each others to find a common ground.

Doesn't it suck to you when you hear person X won something (it does not matter big or small), then come here and claims that a casino is not paying them because they think they are multi account but the casino does not show any proof?

(I get it that this is very sensitive to share in public and this is why I have this solution to share with few users who are trusted in the community, we need to give an answer to the user X that yes, we are convinced that you are multi account.)

[LFC_Bitcoin]

I have this solution to share with few users who are trusted in the community, we need to give an answer to the user X that yes, we are convinced that you are multi account.)

I think that’s a good idea, mate.

[neymarjr12]

This guy was already connected to 3 other accounts.
I don't think that Sportsbet would just make that up; but who knows?

Not true, until proven - I again repeat that I have no link with those accounts.
They could at least explain their point, why they link me with hose: same IP, same date of birth, something else - in my opinion they don't have any solid proof and just blocked me as an unprofitable customer for them.

[Trofo]

@LFC_Bitcoin
I agree with you that Sportsbet is very trusted bookie, never used bitcasino but I would trust them also simply by association. I believe most of us "senior" members here with first hand experience with Sportsbet would agree with this without any problems. That has earned them the right that when accusations like these come out most of us consider them false by default and that is probably correct assumption in most of the cases. But we have to allow for possibility that there is 0.1% of customers actually wrongfully accused.

If this accusation happened on a thread of some new unproven or maybe shady site. Most of us would already leave red trust on profile, Sportsbet has earned our trust and nobody did that. It didn't even cross my mind. If this was a new site they would have to defend themselves shouldn't we expect more of industry leaders and not less?

If this is not only IP then pick some trusted users from this thread who already commented in here, who are not biased, doing things from a neutral position. Pick me, actmyname, Trofo, SyGambler. Share your private investigation with us and let us convinced that your investigation is right.


Edit: actmyname, Trofo, SyGambler I hope you guys will have no problem to invest some of your free time for the community if Steve actually share the methods with us.

Edit again:
I would add buwaytress too. Sorry I missed you buddy.

I don't know if this a right approach but if both parties agree to solution like that I would be willing to donate some of my time. If we want to do it fairly we probably must have much more people on the jury. If there is only 4 of us what is stopping one of the parties to pay us under the table and make a ruling in their favor? You know the saying, everybody has a price, you just have to find it. This time the amount isn't so big but what if it was 150 BTC difference?

I still believe that best approach for stuff like this is public disclosure, available for all to see.

[efialtis]

@LFC_Bitcoin
I agree with you that Sportsbet is very trusted bookie, never used bitcasino but I would trust them also simply by association. I believe most of us "senior" members here with first hand experience with Sportsbet would agree with this without any problems. That has earned them the right that when accusations like these come out most of us consider them false by default and that is probably correct assumption in most of the cases. But we have to allow for possibility that there is 0.1% of customers actually wrongfully accused.

If this accusation happened on a thread of some new unproven or maybe shady site. Most of us would already leave red trust on profile, Sportsbet has earned our trust and nobody did that. It didn't even cross my mind. If this was a new site they would have to defend themselves shouldn't we expect more of industry leaders and not less?
~

Exactly what I am saying - couldn't agree more. Speaking of red trust, it crossed my mind and I will jump in and create a flag if we don't see a proper & professional handling of this "situation" asap - an army / hordes of related campaign participants supporting SB is not gonna change anything here (not pointed towards you lfc_bitcoin). It doesn't even matter who is right or wrong here as long as the situation is not being made clear - I still can't believe Sportsbet would do that for such peanuts. Anyway, this is no threat, no nothing but just the way things work and should work around here.

... All of that while I am turning over lots of mBTCs each and every week at Sportsbet and personally never had the slightest problem, I have always been treated extremely well - up to this day, I have always been recommending Sportsbet with no hesitation. Me being treated nicely does not mean I don't care about other player's experiences though and I am not going to keep my mouth shut for that reason.

Nb. I have already disabled Coingaming's platforms on my website until further notice.

[SyGambler]

all have fair points and personally I trust sportsbet with much more money than the case here , but this is a public forum and it has all the kind of members trusted , trolls , scammers ...etc
main point is that such issues should be solved with evidence , OP is saying that he got no answer regarding what exactly he did wrong so IMO at least he deserves to get the findings

[neymarjr12]

@jeremypwr, I responded your PM. You are free to respond here or continue in the PM.

@sportsbet.io, Steve sportsbet will not pay 0.373 BTC is something unbelievable to think considering the image they have created in this community and the gambling industry. But this is also true that since people still trust this community, and they come here to find justice, we the users who care for the forum and the community will do our best to help them instead of blindly trusting a service or person. I hope this make sense for you. Just to let you know, for me personally sportsbet and bitcasino are two sites I will keep at the top of my recommendation list. There are no doubt about it.

Let's be fair here, what if instead of OP, it was me? Do you think you would easily convince users that I am lying? Don't you think in that case we would see some nasty fight to prove each others right? Either you would lose the battle or I would.

Question here:
If IP is your only tool to find connected account then this is very weak investigation.

If this is not only IP then pick some trusted users from this thread who already commented in here, who are not biased, doing things from a neutral position. Pick me, actmyname, Trofo, SyGambler. Share your private investigation with us and let us convinced that your investigation is right.


Edit: actmyname, Trofo, SyGambler I hope you guys will have no problem to invest some of your free time for the community if Steve actually share the methods with us.

Edit again:
I would add buwaytress too. Sorry I missed you buddy.

Also, sorry jeremypwr and LFC_Bitcoin not to considering you since I already see some biased opinion from you two. I hope you all understand what we want from this thread. It's not against sportsbet or any casino or service it's about showing us some evidence instead of asking us to believe where other party seems to make sense too.

Hi @Royse777,
Still no reply from @Sportsbet.io... By being silent they just confirm that they are thieves...
Did you get any info from them by any chance?

[AB de Royse777]

Hi @Royse777,
Still no reply from @Sportsbet.io... By being silent they just confirm that they are thieves...
Did you get any info from them by any chance?

Few minutes ago I received a PM from Steve and I replied. I hope he comes up with a solution.

@neymarjr12, you need to understand that I can not do much except leaving a negative rating if things really do not satisfy with the questions raised in here by some of us. I trust sportsbet.io and believe that they will do their best to resolve this issue. This multi accounts cases really needs a better solution.

Tagging them will be the last thing I will do and I will give them enough time before doing that.

[efialtis]

@jeremypwr, I responded your PM. You are free to respond here or continue in the PM.

@sportsbet.io, Steve sportsbet will not pay 0.373 BTC is something unbelievable to think considering the image they have created in this community and the gambling industry. But this is also true that since people still trust this community, and they come here to find justice, we the users who care for the forum and the community will do our best to help them instead of blindly trusting a service or person. I hope this make sense for you. Just to let you know, for me personally sportsbet and bitcasino are two sites I will keep at the top of my recommendation list. There are no doubt about it.

Let's be fair here, what if instead of OP, it was me? Do you think you would easily convince users that I am lying? Don't you think in that case we would see some nasty fight to prove each others right? Either you would lose the battle or I would.

Question here:
If IP is your only tool to find connected account then this is very weak investigation.

If this is not only IP then pick some trusted users from this thread who already commented in here, who are not biased, doing things from a neutral position. Pick me, actmyname, Trofo, SyGambler. Share your private investigation with us and let us convinced that your investigation is right.


Edit: actmyname, Trofo, SyGambler I hope you guys will have no problem to invest some of your free time for the community if Steve actually share the methods with us.

Edit again:
I would add buwaytress too. Sorry I missed you buddy.

Also, sorry jeremypwr and LFC_Bitcoin not to considering you since I already see some biased opinion from you two. I hope you all understand what we want from this thread. It's not against sportsbet or any casino or service it's about showing us some evidence instead of asking us to believe where other party seems to make sense too.

Hi @Royse777,
Still no reply from @Sportsbet.io... By being silent they just confirm that they are thieves...
Did you get any info from them by any chance?

As Royse777 already stated there is not much we can do except for leaving negative ratings and flagging them and rest assured - I will be doing this if we don't hear back shortly. You can't just say "this is it, no more talks, we keep your money, goodbye" without providing proof if necessary - you can't do that when you are Sportsbet - a company that lots of established users here (including myself) trust blindly - we would expect that from a shit-book but not from them.

This whole situation gets frustrating since I still don't see why Sportsbet should "scam" someone for a ridiculous 0.4 BTC (ridiculous a business such as Sportsbet)...

@neymarjr12 If I understood correctly, you wouldn't mind them disclosing each and every bit (personal) information they have provided it helps the case?

[sportsbet.io]

Hi All,

Re: neymarjr12:

Our last email to neymarjr12 was sent 20/07/20 once again requesting a wallet address to return the initial deposits too. We have never ignored you and have in fact been prompt and clear in our communication.

We take any accusation extremely seriously and ignoring players is not how we resolve issues. Our history and activity on the forum speaks to that.

The simple matter of the fact here is that our Fraud Team cannot simply expose their methodology for detecting fraud for obvious reasons. When possible we try to show proof but in some cases it's not possible without giving away either sensitive information about the player or about our detection tools.

What we can say publicly is that we have a 100% match and have no doubt that this person was multi-accounting. We use many different tools and techniques in fraud and it’s not as rudimentary as IP matching as some people on the forum have expressed.

However, to be extra sure in this case we also asked this person to undergo KYC, which was not passed.

Given our findings and also our t&cs, we think it’s only fair to return 102 mBTC (deposits minus withdrawals)- something we’ve been trying to do for some time. What we don’t think is fair is to set a precedent of opening up cases publicly, infringing players’ privacy and giving out information which could help others circumvent fraud detection.

We’ve been on the forum since 2016 and since the beginning have tried to act with integrity and fairness. We're so very proud of being part of this community and for being known as a reputable sportsbook in the crypto space and therefore would never do anything to compromise that.


regards,

Steve,
Sportsbet.io

[tyKiwanuka]

~snip~

I have a few questions regarding that:

1) When do you normally check if a user is multi-accounting ? (like as soon as an account is opened, when a withdrawal is requested, at first deposit, if there is some suspicion etc.)
2) If a user is multi-accounting and constantly losing money, do you close those accounts as well ?
3) Did you ever have a case, where your detection tools proved to be wrong ?

If answering these questions reveals too much or is too delicate, then just disregard

[neymarjr12]

The simple matter of the fact here is that our Fraud Team cannot simply expose their methodology for detecting fraud for obvious reasons.

There was a truly fair option offered by @Royse777, which I totally support, do you agree with it?

However, to be extra sure in this case we also asked this person to undergo KYC, which was not passed.

What do you mean not passed I sent you my passport, my bank statement, my utility bill - what else do you need??? Moreover, I wrote that I can show show you "myself, my laptop, my working place, my house, anything you want" (please find confirmation in the screenshot: https://ibb.co/G0p1DHB) - I can do anything you need for KYC, because it is me, and this is my first and only account on the platform - how is that "not passed"? Ridiculous.

[LFC_Bitcoin]

If this guy failed KYC, it sounds like a closed case?

It’s pretty normal for reputable sportsbooks to ask for KYC in situations like this and would all yield the same results WITHOUT explaining how they use their different tools and techniques in fraud.

Correct me if I’m wrong?

[Pffrt]

Although it would be good approach to share some good clarification, it is not that good to share the strategy to detect multi accounting too. Cheaters may find a way to pass that strategy and continue multi accounting. However, the problem is casino never detects multi accounts when multi accounts created or deposit. All the times, when gamblers withdraw money, that's where casino starts the investigation. Before that if they keep losing or if they create couple of accounts, no investigation is made.
The problem should be solved. Gamblers should be passed verification in order to be eligible for gambling so that sites don't have to block account later but at the beginning.

1) When do you normally check if a user is multi-accounting ? (like as soon as an account is opened, when a withdrawal is requested, at first deposit, if there is some suspicion etc.)

[neymarjr12]

If this guy failed KYC, it sounds like a closed case?

It’s pretty normal for reputable sportsbooks to ask for KYC in situations like this and would all yield the same results WITHOUT explaining how they use their different tools and techniques in fraud.

Correct me if I’m wrong?

Did you read my reply?? I didn't "fail" anything, I provided all of the requested documents and ready to provide any more needed.
It just illustrates once again how unfair and ridiculous the platform is - they request documents for KYC / you send all of them (even more than requested) / they decide that you "failed" KYC / you ask why and claim that you can do any KYC needed - no reaction.
Correct me if I'm wrong that this sounds unfair?

[efialtis]

If this guy failed KYC, it sounds like a closed case?

It’s pretty normal for reputable sportsbooks to ask for KYC in situations like this and would all yield the same results WITHOUT explaining how they use their different tools and techniques in fraud.

Correct me if I’m wrong?

Gotta disagree here - anyone can say "your KYC failed" - how would it fail in the first place when the guy has sent each and every requested document? It failed, say for what reason it failed - "KYC failed because of X, Y, Z".

To be exact, we have not heard anything new and the situation is still as messed up as before.

[neymarjr12]

If this guy failed KYC, it sounds like a closed case?

It’s pretty normal for reputable sportsbooks to ask for KYC in situations like this and would all yield the same results WITHOUT explaining how they use their different tools and techniques in fraud.

Correct me if I’m wrong?

Gotta disagree here - anyone can say "your KYC failed" - how would it fail in the first place when the guy has sent each and every requested document? It failed, say for what reason it failed - "KYC failed because of X, Y, Z".

To be exact, we have not heard anything new and the situation is still as messed up as before.

Thanks for highlighting this up - this KYC thing actually illustrates their whole approach: even when you are ready to go through any KYC procedure possible, they still call it a "fail" and base their decision on it - sooo absurd...

[AB de Royse777]

The simple matter of the fact here is that our Fraud Team cannot simply expose their methodology for detecting fraud for obvious reasons. When possible we try to show proof but in some cases it's not possible without giving away either sensitive information about the player or about our detection tools.

Let's talk about this specific case. What is stopping you to share the sensitive information?
1. The player
2. Secret of the detection tools?


1. According to you, you are 100% sure that OP has multi account and all those accounts that you found connected and came up with same ID?
@neymarjr12: Do you give permission to sportsbet.io to share your ID with some of us privately? I will suggest to use encrypted file sharing. Here is my public key:

Code:

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@Steve, if you believe all those are same ID then you should not have any problem to share the IDs if OP give the permission.

2. You are asking us to trust you which is great! I said not to publicly do anything but share the things with some of us privately which means we are asking you to Trust this private team. But it seems you have no trust over us. Correct?
Asking us to trust you but not trusting us is not how mutual things work.


Sorry Steve, for me - the community is bigger than a personal friendship. I hate to do it but I am going to leave you a tag. Come up with a reliable explanation, I am waiting to remove the tag.

[LFC_Bitcoin]

If this guy failed KYC, it sounds like a closed case?

It’s pretty normal for reputable sportsbooks to ask for KYC in situations like this and would all yield the same results WITHOUT explaining how they use their different tools and techniques in fraud.

Correct me if I’m wrong?

Gotta disagree here - anyone can say "your KYC failed" - how would it fail in the first place when the guy has sent each and every requested document? It failed, say for what reason it failed - "KYC failed because of X, Y, Z".

To be exact, we have not heard anything new and the situation is still as messed up as before.

The guy failed KYC, I don’t think it’s good if Sportsbet disclose all ‘his’ personal information here? It could be anybodies personal info he maybe stole etc.

No offence intended at all but I dunno if it’s good to be giving Merit to blatant scammers
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1458034.msg54853858#msg54853858

Look at his post history and ask yourself if you think Sportsbet stole 10 mBTC from this guy. 

[efialtis]

If this guy failed KYC, it sounds like a closed case?

It’s pretty normal for reputable sportsbooks to ask for KYC in situations like this and would all yield the same results WITHOUT explaining how they use their different tools and techniques in fraud.

Correct me if I’m wrong?

Gotta disagree here - anyone can say "your KYC failed" - how would it fail in the first place when the guy has sent each and every requested document? It failed, say for what reason it failed - "KYC failed because of X, Y, Z".

To be exact, we have not heard anything new and the situation is still as messed up as before.

The guy failed KYC, I don’t think it’s good if Sportsbet disclose all ‘his’ personal information here? It could be anybodies personal info he maybe stole etc.

No offence intended at all but I dunno if it’s good to be giving Merit to blatant scammers
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1458034.msg54853858#msg54853858

Look at his post history and ask yourself if you think Sportsbet stole 10 mBTC from this guy.  

Regarding the KYC - this is ridiculous (from sportsbet) - plain and simple. You can not just tell someone you failed WITHOUT telling him why - do that in real world with regulation and see how far you will go...

Regarding that post - None taken, no worries. I also don't mean to offend anyone, I hope you guys know that but just saying it once more to be clear. Back to topic: I did not give him positive trust or anything but a merit and I am giving merit to any post I feel speaks truth and yes - that post is one of these so I disagree once again, sorry.

You know what's pretty sad? That some things - my friend found some nice words on the matter - are becoming "industry standard" in online gambling... Like accusing people of multi-accounting without providing any evidence while gladly accepting their cash as long as they lose.