[SCAM] Sportsbet.io (Withholding funds) [dispute settled]

[tyKiwanuka]

Are you sure you didn't violate their TOS?  Lets assume your documents are legit, are you from one of the countries highlighted below?

(...) including the United States of America (and her dependencies, military bases and territories), Australia, United Kingdom, Estonia, Netherlands or other restricted jurisdictions ("Restricted Jurisdiction") as communicated by us from time to time. By using the Website you confirm you are not a resident in a Restricted Jurisdiction.

Although OP already confirmed not residing in a restricted jurisdictions, I would like to say a few words about this. Bookmakers always use these terms to their advantage - all bookmakers. These rules are only enforced in case of dispute (about withdrawals) and the bookie always wins

If OP was actually from US and got (only) his deposit back after SB found out, this is technically ok. But then again, if OP lost some of his deposit and then SB finds out, that he is from a restricted jurisdiction, he will not get his (full) deposit back. So this rule only ever works one way to the advantage of the bookie. They will take money from losing players, even if they were not allowed to play on their site and can bully people with their T&C when winning.

Sportsbet knows that some of their customers (who are active in this forum) are from UK or Netherlands - do they block their accounts ? No. Do these users knowingly violate the terms of Sportsbet ? Yes.

Afterall this a weird and often times shady business, but something we have to live with to a certain extent and as I said, it's the same everywhere and not only at Sportsbet. And we can always choose to not be part of it, it's not mandatory to gamble fortunately

If $3,644 is a small amount for you then you're living in a different planet.

It's peanuts for Sportsbet And the reason, why I don't think this is some sort of a scam.

[actmyname]

Bookmakers always use these terms to their advantage - all bookmakers. These rules are only enforced in case of dispute (about withdrawals) and the bookie always wins

Yeah, and when you look at rules like this:

"6.2. If you do not use your account which has deposited funds in it, for 3 months you will receive a notice from us. If you do not use your deposits within 1 month following our notice, we reserve the right to deduct monthly administrative costs from the deposits remaining In your account. The administrative cost is 15% monthly from the deposited funds remaining in your account."
"6.3. We reserve the right to close player accounts that have been inactive for more than 12 months. In case your account has deposited funds after the 12-month inactive period, we reserve the right to use the remaining deposited funds for administrative costs for closing the account."
"9.3.      We reserve the right to apply a wagering requirement of at least 5 (five) times the deposit amount if we suspect the user in using our service as a mixer."
"12.2.    If you use a Deposit Bonus, no withdrawal of your original deposit will be accepted before you have reached the requirements stipulated under the terms and conditions of the Deposit Bonus."

Well...

[Get-Paid.com]

It's peanuts for Sportsbet And the reason, why I don't think this is some sort of a scam.

Quote:
It's peanuts for Sportsbet And and the(that is the) reason why I don't think this is some sort of a scam.

-------

Good for you if you don't think it's a scam. Fortunately many good forum members here don't ask for your opinion.
The amount is not a factor.
It's the behavior towards the customer that determines whether the site is legit or not.

Clearly, they selectively decided to block his account and now they're doing their utmost to protect their stance because any other stance would shed bad light on their operation.

Just call it for what it is without trying to be an s.

[suchmoon]

I believe it was similar. See it yourself if you have free time.

It's not similar at all. Livecoin confiscated user's full balance, not just winnings. Their TOS had a predatory clause about complaints (although this could be considered a matter of opinion). They failed to maintain and update their wallets, suffered losses (XMR and MONA), and forced users to pay for it. Had Sportsbet done something like this I'd have no problem supporting the flag.

I also must add, livecoin was a fine exchange up until that one incident. Things didn't go well only with one guy and they got painted bloody red all over, flagged, tarred and feathered. We will see how this one will go.

Again possibly a matter of opinion, but it wasn't a fine exchange. They had wallets disabled with no plan to ever re-enable them but allowed trading. This would be similar if Sportsbet could be proven to deliberately allow bets they don't intend to pay out but I don't see that here.

[neymarjr12]

Clearly, they selectively decided to block his account and now they're doing their utmost to protect their stance because any other stance would shed bad light on their operation.

Exactly, that's my point: looks like Sportsbet made a mistake with my KYC assessment (there is not a single explanation how I could not "pass it"), decided to disable my account because of this mistake and now went too far to protect their false decision.
@sportsbet.io I am totally fine to go again through any KYC needed in order to sort this thing out.

[mindrust]

It's not similar at all. Livecoin confiscated user's full balance, not just winnings. Their TOS had a predatory clause about complaints (although this could be considered a matter of opinion). They failed to maintain and update their wallets, suffered losses (XMR and

What difference does it make if neymarjr here won his money fair and square? After he won his bets, that's his money. Not the casino's.

If I were in his shoes, I wouldn't make the issue this big, I would take my initial deposit and move on but I perfectly understand why he decided to push it further.

Had Sportsbet done something like this I'd have no problem supporting the flag.

Again possibly a matter of opinion, but it wasn't a fine exchange. They had wallets disabled with no plan to ever re-enable them but allowed trading.

I didn't see massive or any serious scam accusations for that exchange. They were fine because they didn't have any negative trust ratings or flags before. I didn't mean it like their customer support or their UI was fine or shit. And they resolved the issue between izoom and them, right? Then I don't see why they are still flagged.

This would be similar if Sportsbet could be proven to deliberately allow bets they don't intend to pay out but I don't see that here.

Let's see what do we have here:

1- Sportsbet.io, accuses NeymarJr of multiaccounting without providing any proof, then asked for his KYC documents.
2- Sportsbet.io, denies his KYC documents because we don't know why. Again, no valid reason.

3- NeymarJr here is ready to share any kind of information including his private data with the beautiful and trusted users of this forum and even ready to make a video conference.

I think OP's claim looks valid.

I'd say, with the information we got in our hands, Sportsbet.io should make him whole.

[suchmoon]

3- NeymarJr here is ready to share any kind of information including his private data with the beautiful trusted users of this forum and even ready to make a video conference.

That can't disprove multi-accounting.

Personally I have serious doubts about the OP's credibility due to some stuff that was said in this thread (some not even directly related to the claim) so I would stay far away from any video conference or anything else that the OP insists on. It seems like a straw man and possibly a trap for "trusted users" to vouch for something they can't properly verify.

If Sportsbet chooses to share their findings with a trusted member that'd be great but I won't take the absence of that as proof that the OP is right.

[mindrust]

3- NeymarJr here is ready to share any kind of information including his private data with the beautiful trusted users of this forum and even ready to make a video conference.

That can't disprove multi-accounting.

How do you prove multi-accounting? How did sportsbet.io come to this conclusion? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[marlboroza]

1) When do you normally check if a user is multi-accounting ? (like as soon as an account is opened, when a withdrawal is requested, at first deposit, if there is some suspicion etc.)

It's usually done when player wins something (speaking in general).

2) If a user is multi-accounting and constantly losing money, do you close those accounts as well ?

Don't be silly. From all complains I saw (speaking in general again), I figured out that it is OK to have multiaccounts as long as you are losing.

3) Did you ever have a case, where your detection tools proved to be wrong ?

Interesting question. You know what, two years ago one gambling site accused me of having another account and they banned me. I explained them it is not me, I asked them which proofs they have (IIRC I asked them that few times) and I actually never got answer. They unbanned me shortly after conversation but I am still so fucking curious about connection and ban reason, so, when I see gambling site claiming someone is cheating I just want to see those proofs.

[suchmoon]

3- NeymarJr here is ready to share any kind of information including his private data with the beautiful trusted users of this forum and even ready to make a video conference.

That can't disprove multi-accounting.

How do you prove multi-accounting? How did sportsbet.io come to this conclusion? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You can't prove it with 100% certainty either (there's always the brother/sister/spouse/mother/dog/goat excuse) so the whole exercise is quite pointless. All we can do is try to audit Sportsbet's multi-account detection by demanding proof from them but since that has privacy implications and it wouldn't convince anyone who thinks that Sportsbet is lying (faking the proof) - I don't really see much use for that.

[mindrust]

You can't prove it with 100% certainty either (there's always the brother/sister/spouse/mother/dog/goat excuse) so the whole exercise is quite pointless. All we can do is try to audit Sportsbet's multi-account detection by demanding proof from them but since that has privacy implications and it wouldn't convince anyone who thinks that Sportsbet is lying (faking the proof) - I don't really see much use for that.

What's wrong with multiaccounting anyway?

Like it has been said above, they don't give a fuck about it while the player is losing his bets. To me it is just another weaponized ToS item.

edit: Alright, I get the freebies angle.

[LFC_Bitcoin]

What's wrong with multiaccounting anyway?

Multi-accounting enables people to get giveaways & free bets etc multiple times. I’m pretty sure people could cheat at stuff like the poker nights they have. You could be playing with 5 or 6 accounts & clean up? I’ve seen people moaning about it before.

[Get-Paid.com]

Multi-accounting enables people to get giveaways & free bets etc multiple times. I’m pretty sure people could cheat at stuff like the poker nights they have. You could be playing with 5 or 6 accounts & clean up? I’ve seen people moaning about it before.

Agreed.
It's becoming a grey area where no one can be proven fully guilty or innocent - if the user would have bet in poker or claiming bonuses then surely he should be banned and that's the end of story - but if he genuinely placed genuine bets (over/under soccer) and didn't try to cheat or circumvent the system (like he claims) then surely there's gotta be a leeway here, or at least some proper settlement - they can both keep it anonymous and don't share how they settle it but leaving the case unsettled and the OP is not willing to accept their offer of getting only his deposit back - then without Sportsbet.io taking any step further - they would only hurt their reputation short and long term.

The best thing to do in such things is common sense, and common sense says a settlement is required (or alternatively posting proofs which seems to be difficult).

[marlboroza]

You can't prove it with 100% certainty either (there's always the brother/sister/spouse/mother/dog/goat excuse) so the whole exercise is quite pointless. All we can do is try to audit Sportsbet's multi-account detection by demanding proof from them but since that has privacy implications and it wouldn't convince anyone who thinks that Sportsbet is lying (faking the proof) - I don't really see much use for that.

I didn't check their ToS lately. Do they have "one account per IP/houshold" rule?

Multi-accounting enables people to get giveaways & free bets etc multiple times. I’m pretty sure people could cheat at stuff like the poker nights they have. You could be playing with 5 or 6 accounts & clean up? I’ve seen people moaning about it before.

Was this the case here? How is that they didn't spot multi accounts before player won, but as soon as they start withdrawing...."peanuts", SB investigated account? Oh, wait, never mind 

[ahctpacer]

I can post here all of my sportbets that were made (won and lost), minus two withdrawals before account was disabled, this will equal to 0.373btc

How many successful withdrawals did you have on 06/22/2020, the day your account was temporarily locked?

https://imgbb.com/c2QQZbh

If this screenshot is genuine, you have 241 mbtc withdrawal, followed immediately by 241 mbtc deposit, why deposit back the exact same amount?

[mindrust]

Was this the case here? How is that they didn't spot multi accounts before player won, but as soon as they start withdrawing...."peanuts", SB investigated account? Oh, wait, never mind 

He must have ruined the fuck outta them with 4 accounts.

[fentanyl08]

My experience with Sportsbet.io has been positive. Signature campaign payouts are always there, and I've been betting from time to time on their website with no issues. It seems irrational to me that a reputable website would scam someone. Clearly, it is not in their interest to lose reputation, customers and profits. And Sportsbet.io is ready to return the deposit (minus withdrawals) to the person who claims he was scammed. I understand why Sportsbet.io would not share how they linked the accounts as making this info public would help abusers to find new ways of breaking the rules.
It's a difficult case for sure, but it's not clear to me why neymarjr12 refuses to provide the address for the return of the deposit at least.
I also support the idea of buwaytress about using the reputable third party to close the case.

You did not make any deposit on their site. You are only here to defend them.
The fact the moderators from the site are supporting sportsbet.io, says enough.

Here is the yellow card from yesterday, which was suddenly wiped away after (I suspect) a phonecall to one of the mods from bitcointalk.

This forum has become a disgrace to Satoshi's memory. I can't believe the management of so-called official bitcoin forum has sold itself to a casino.

[tranthidung]

I didn't check their ToS lately. Do they have "one account per IP/houshold" rule?

I only found these rules on the casino but they need to show evidence of abuse/ fraud to the OP to close the accusation and protect their reputation.

It is off-topic but last month I see many scam accusations on casinos. What happened? Is this a coincidence? Cloudbet, Sportsbet.io, Bitcasino.io, PlayBetr.com as I know they are all trusted casinos. 

3.5.      You are allowed to have only one Member Account. If you attempt to open more than one Member Account, all of your accounts may be blocked, suspended or closed and any funds credited to your account/s will be frozen.
3.6.      If you notice that you have more than one registered Member Account you must notify us immediately. Failure to do so may lead to your Member Account being blocked.
12.6.    Bonuses can only be received once per person/account, family, household, address, e-mail address, IP addresses and environments where computers are shared (university, fraternity, school, public library, workplace, etc.). The Operator reserves the right to close your account and confiscate any existing funds if evidence of abuse/fraud is found.

[mindrust]

This forum ...

Fentanyl is one helluva drug. Definitely something GP would use. I wonder how many alts you got.

[suchmoon]

This forum has become a disgrace to Satoshi's memory. I can't believe the management of so-called official bitcoin forum has sold itself to a casino.

Stop listening to game-protect and start learning how the flag system works.

What happened? Is this a coincidence?

If I were a cynical old fart I would certainly point out a completely random coincidence with game-protect's trolling using a bunch of sockpuppets.