[SCAM] Sportsbet.io (Withholding funds) [dispute settled]

[drexlas]

I agree with all @efialtis said on this topic.

As a long time user of Sportsbet I can't believe they would try to scam somebody for 0.4 BTC. Heck they gave more than half of that to me as a reload bonus while I was high rolling there. They are very high on my trusted pages list and probably the most trusted gambling site.

That being said I am also aware that we are in highly unregulated space and I believe service providers should be much more open in cases like this. I don't know how their multi accounting algorithm works and I even understand they can't publicly provide all info since then the scammers would have an easier time but they have to provide something. There simply has to be some sort of transparency.

Do you guys remember those Wednesday poker freerolls? There has been so much multi accounting there that it was unplayable in the early stages of tournament. I was wandering for long time what does the Sportsbet gain from promo like that and my best answer is just - a confirmation of the multi account scammers. They have great promos and multi accounting really gives edge in those promos, both against the house and against other players.

you better stop talking trash and very very fast stop with this moron talk
you are working for them and they pay you t defend them, you did not play with them and they did not give you money

i hope neymr will get his money soon
and we have to make sure nobody will ever play here again ever
sportsbet.io SCAM numero uno

[1714056788]

1714056788

[Use Your Brain]

seizing the player's winnings without showing any proofs for their claims

Again with this "proof"?   Wasnt it already determined sportsbet isnt going to disclose sensitive information.   This was beatin to death already and now its just getting repetitive.

for KYC even though they were going to throw the documents right to the trash can.

You must not be much of a gambler cuz this isnt how kyc works.   These gambling havens want the ir customers to keep playing they dont want them to leave their gambling haven.    The players lose more than they win so it is not in casinos best interest to not let a degenerate gamble.   kyc is normal for bitcoin for reasons already stated. 

[mindrust]

seizing the player's winnings without showing any proofs for their claims

Again with this "proof"?   Wasnt it already determined sportsbet isnt going to disclose sensitive information.   This was beatin to death already and now its just getting repetitive.

for KYC even though they were going to throw the documents right to the trash can.

You must not be much of a gambler cuz this isnt how kyc works.   These gambling havens want the ir customers to keep playing they dont want them to leave their gambling haven.    The players lose more than they win so it is not in casinos best interest to not let a degenerate gamble.   kyc is normal for bitcoin for reasons already stated.  

I don't buy it.

Fuck KYC.

freebitco.in has no KYC and they are killing it.


Also see:

2. Fiat+Crypto casinos strip all pseudo anonymity from Crypto gamblers, because they require full KYC requirements. (This in most cases are not a choice, but a regulatory requirement linked to their Fiat links to government.

Sadly point 2 applies also to many pure crypto casinos. There are only a few of them don't ask KYC at all.

Casinos use KYC to cover up their lack of technical knowledge and general faults.

If someone goes to freebitco.in (it is only an example, the truth is i don't know any other casino that is completely KYC free) and win 1000btc today by hacking the website or by just playing honest and withdraw it immediately, they won't ask you your KYC documents. You'll be able to get your money right away.

But if they catch you while hacking, they'll lock up your account, seize your coins and give a kick in the butt and post the proofs in the forum.

That's how you should deal with scammers.

[suchmoon]

So you are completely OK with sportsbet.io's actions that is, seizing the player's winnings without showing any proofs for their claims and asking for KYC even though they were going to throw the documents right to the trash can.

This definitely is NOT the way how a trusted/reputable casino should act. "to save peanuts."

I'm not ok with KYC and anti-multi-accounting rules in general and I've already stated so earlier in the thread. That doesn't mean there is a written contract violation here.

So then Sportsbet can disable ALL of the accounts on the platform, claim that everyone was multi accounting and don't provide ANY proof to anyone, right?

Not the point. According to the T&Cs you presumably agreed to, you shouldn't be claiming that they violated a written contract unless there is some separate contract that you signed. Is there?

[mindrust]

So you are completely OK with sportsbet.io's actions that is, seizing the player's winnings without showing any proofs for their claims and asking for KYC even though they were going to throw the documents right to the trash can.

This definitely is NOT the way how a trusted/reputable casino should act. "to save peanuts."

I'm not ok with KYC and anti-multi-accounting rules in general and I've already stated so earlier in the thread. That doesn't mean there is a written contract violation here.

So then Sportsbet can disable ALL of the accounts on the platform, claim that everyone was multi accounting and don't provide ANY proof to anyone, right?

Not the point. According to the T&Cs you presumably agreed to, you shouldn't be claiming that they violated a written contract unless there is some separate contract that you signed. Is there?

ToC is not the law. This is one of those similarities with the livecoin's thread that I was talking about earlier.

Sportsbet.io should just pay his peanuts and be done with it. If they cannot pay, they should tell explain us the reason why.

[neymarjr12]

So you are completely OK with sportsbet.io's actions that is, seizing the player's winnings without showing any proofs for their claims and asking for KYC even though they were going to throw the documents right to the trash can.

This definitely is NOT the way how a trusted/reputable casino should act. "to save peanuts."

I'm not ok with KYC and anti-multi-accounting rules in general and I've already stated so earlier in the thread. That doesn't mean there is a written contract violation here.

So then Sportsbet can disable ALL of the accounts on the platform, claim that everyone was multi accounting and don't provide ANY proof to anyone, right?

Not the point. According to the T&Cs you presumably agreed to, you shouldn't be claiming that they violated a written contract unless there is some separate contract that you signed. Is there?

Is there a point in the contract where Sportsbet can disable an account and seize the winnings without providing any proof?

[Use Your Brain]

I don't buy it.

Fuck KYC.

freebitco.in has no KYC and they are killing it.

No offense but you cant say "Fuck KYC"  but are being paid by Playbetr who asks for KYC.  
makes u sound like a oh i dont know, maybe a hypocrit

ToC is not the law.

maybe not the law but you agree to it when you decide to deposit your coins there

Sportsbet.io should just pay his peanuts and be done with it. If they cannot pay, they should tell explain us the reason why.

failing kyc and multi accounting isnt good enough for you apparently

[mindrust]

I don't buy it.

Fuck KYC.

freebitco.in has no KYC and they are killing it.

No offense but you cant say "Fuck KYC"  but are being paid by Playbetr who asks for KYC.  
makes u sound like a oh i dont know, maybe a hypocrit

I say whatever the fuck I want, if playbetr doesn't like what I said, they are free to remove me from their campaign.

ToC is not the law.

maybe not the law but you agree to it when you decide to deposit your coins there

ToC is not a license to scam.

Sportsbet.io should just pay his peanuts and be done with it. If they cannot pay, they should tell explain us the reason why.

failing kyc and multi accounting isnt good enough for you apparently

These accusations are baseless for now.

And, post from your main account please.

[suchmoon]

ToC is not the law.

But that's the written contract referred by the flag that points to this thread. If Sportsbet broke the law then the OP can sue them but as far as trust system is concerned we shouldn't be saying that a written contract has been violated when we disagree with the terms of the contract. Lots of deals conducted on this forum may be not 100% lawful in all jurisdictions (shark loaning for example) but we have come to a consensus, or so I thought, that we still treat them as contracts for the purposes of the flag system.

This is one of those similarities with the livecoin's thread that I was talking about earlier.

IIRC Livecoin flag is type 2 (implied contract).

Is there a point in the contract where Sportsbet can disable an account and seize the winnings without providing any proof?

You have a Sportsbet account, I don't. Enlighten us.

[mindrust]

But that's the written contract referred by the flag that points to this thread. If Sportsbet broke the law then the OP can sue them but as far as trust system is concerned we shouldn't be saying that a written contract has been violated when we disagree with the terms of the contract. Lots of deals conducted on this forum may be not 100% lawful in all jurisdictions (shark loaning for example) but we have come to a consensus, or so I thought, that we still treat them as contracts for the purposes of the flag system.

The universal written contract we have states that the casino agrees to pay your winnings which sportsbet.io fails at miserably.

You play in a casino not to leave your winnings on the table when you are told to by the casino manager?

Do you?

Go on, say "I do".

[suchmoon]

The universal written contract we have states that the casino agrees to pay your winnings which sportsbet.io fails at miserably.

Quote it.

You play in a casino not to leave your winnings on the table when you are told to by the casino manager?

Do you?

Go on, say "I do".

Straw man / loaded question. Let's stick to the contract debate.

[neymarjr12]

failing kyc and multi accounting isnt good enough for you apparently

Prove that I did those.

ToC is not the law.

But that's the written contract referred by the flag that points to this thread. If Sportsbet broke the law then the OP can sue them but as far as trust system is concerned we shouldn't be saying that a written contract has been violated when we disagree with the terms of the contract. Lots of deals conducted on this forum may be not 100% lawful in all jurisdictions (shark loaning for example) but we have come to a consensus, or so I thought, that we still treat them as contracts for the purposes of the flag system.

This is one of those similarities with the livecoin's thread that I was talking about earlier.

IIRC Livecoin flag is type 2 (implied contract).

Is there a point in the contract where Sportsbet can disable an account and seize the winnings without providing any proof?

You have a Sportsbet account, I don't. Enlighten us.

There is point about multi accounting in the contract (it is obviously forbidden).
But there is no clear information about the procedure of investigation, i.e. they accuse me of multi accounting (again sorry for repeating, without any proof), I claim that this is my first and only account and ready to provide any documents to support my claim - if both parties don't change their view, the question goes beyond the contract, somewhere in the field of common law.

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

[suchmoon]

There is point about multi accounting in the contract (it is obviously forbidden).
But there is no clear information about the procedure of investigation, i.e. they accuse me of multi accounting (again sorry for repeating, without any proof), I claim that this is my first and only account and ready to provide any documents to support my claim - if both parties don't change their view, the question goes beyond the contract, somewhere in the field of common law.

https://sportsbet.io/about/terms-and-conditions

17. Cancellations, Suspensions and Closure
17.1.    Without restricting our ability to rely on other remedies that may be available to us, we may suspend and/or terminate your account, cancel any outstanding bets and/or confiscate any or all funds in your account at our absolute discretion if:
[...]
(vi) we determine that you are breaching any term of these Terms and Conditions;
[...]
17.2.    You acknowledge that Sportsbet.io shall be the final decision-maker as to whether you have violated rules, terms or conditions in a manner that results in suspension or permanent barring from participation in our Websites.

Seems quite clear to me. Is it fair? Maybe not. Is it lawful? I don't know - talk to a lawyer. But I don't think you have a case for a type 3 flag here on this forum.

[mindrust]

The universal written contract we have states that the casino agrees to pay your winnings which sportsbet.io fails at miserably.

Quote it.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4509006.

"Sportsbet.io prides itself on its secure and trustworthy betting service^[1], with withdrawal times of around 1.5 minutes^[2]- amongst the fastest in the industry!"


[1] How can a casino be trustworthy if they don't pay their player's winnings?
[2] OP's winnings didn't arrive in ~1.5 minutes. How long it has been now?


I am all burned out. I tried to do the right thing, the rest is on the shoulders of the DT members. I was going to do spend my time on some other valuable shit and this ate my all day. Adios.

[neymarjr12]

There is point about multi accounting in the contract (it is obviously forbidden).
But there is no clear information about the procedure of investigation, i.e. they accuse me of multi accounting (again sorry for repeating, without any proof), I claim that this is my first and only account and ready to provide any documents to support my claim - if both parties don't change their view, the question goes beyond the contract, somewhere in the field of common law.

https://sportsbet.io/about/terms-and-conditions

17. Cancellations, Suspensions and Closure
17.1.    Without restricting our ability to rely on other remedies that may be available to us, we may suspend and/or terminate your account, cancel any outstanding bets and/or confiscate any or all funds in your account at our absolute discretion if:
[...]
(vi) we determine that you are breaching any term of these Terms and Conditions;
[...]
17.2.    You acknowledge that Sportsbet.io shall be the final decision-maker as to whether you have violated rules, terms or conditions in a manner that results in suspension or permanent barring from participation in our Websites.

Seems quite clear to me. Is it fair? Maybe not. Is it lawful? I don't know - talk to a lawyer. But I don't think you have a case for a type 3 flag here on this forum.

Then again, Sportsbet can disable ALL of the accounts on the platform, claim that everyone was multi accounting (or breached their rules an any other way) and don't provide ANY proof to anyone, right?

"Sportsbet.io prides itself on its secure and trustworthy betting service^[1], with withdrawal times of around 1.5 minutes^[2]- amongst the fastest in the industry!"


[1] How can a casino be trustworthy if they don't pay their player's winnings?
[2] OP's winnings didn't arrive in ~1.5 minutes. How long it has been now?

[2] More than a month now mate 

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

[actmyname]

Whether it's in the Terms of Conditions or not, general "no multiple accounts" rules punish players more often than anyone looking to abuse the actual site. Rather than target a symptom of a problem (i.e. multiple accounts from promotion abuse) they could just simply leave it at "don't use multiple accounts to abuse giveaways and promotions". The sweeping general term lets them do shit like this. What if a player, in one situation, comes back to the site after a year forgetting their previous account details? How about if they lose access to the password and email of an account? Any number of scenarios could be arbitrarily created, but that's not the real point: it's ToS like this, like the rollover requirements that some casinos use to "prevent money-laundering".

Masquerading as rules to prevent abuse against a minority of players, they in turn are used against every player.

[neymarjr12]

Whether it's in the Terms of Conditions or not, general "no multiple accounts" rules punish players more often than anyone looking to abuse the actual site. Rather than target a symptom of a problem (i.e. multiple accounts from promotion abuse) they could just simply leave it at "don't use multiple accounts to abuse giveaways and promotions". The sweeping general term lets them do shit like this. What if a player, in one situation, comes back to the site after a year forgetting their previous account details? How about if they lose access to the password and email of an account? Any number of scenarios could be arbitrarily created, but that's not the real point: it's ToS like this, like the rollover requirements that some casinos use to "prevent money-laundering".

Masquerading as rules to prevent abuse against a minority of players, they in turn are used against every player.

Regarding "abusing giveaways and promotions", I actually haven't received any of those from Sportsbet. The only thing I remember I had an odds Boost on couple of bets (when your odds change by several % up), that's it.
This again raises even more questions why they decided to disable me without providing any reasoning.

[yahoo62278]

I see the multiple accounts rule as a way for casinos to fuck players out of money without any negative repercussion. If the player is abusing giveaways/promotions by creating multiple accounts, then by all means deny his WD and show he done so. If the player has multiple accounts and has not abused anything, just made deposits and had a win, then pay the guy his money and move on.

The multiple account rule is a joke.

[Get-Paid.com]

I see the multiple accounts rule as a way for casinos to fuck players out of money without any negative repercussion. If the player is abusing giveaways/promotions by creating multiple accounts, then by all means deny his WD and show he done so. If the player has multiple accounts and has not abused anything, just made deposits and had a win, then pay the guy his money and move on.

The multiple account rule is a joke.

Exactly.
That's how it should be.

Sportsbet.io is damaging its reputation here for not doing so.

[marlboroza]

Well, technically you could forget that you had multiple accounts if you win. Just like casinos remember to check for multiple accounts if you win.

You could but as you said, casino will check it and remind you.

Then again, Sportsbet can disable ALL of the accounts on the platform, claim that everyone was multi accounting (or breached their rules an any other way) and don't provide ANY proof to anyone, right?

On internet forum? Yeah, they actually don't have to provide shit here.

like the rollover requirements that some casinos use to "prevent money-laundering".

That is actually stupidest excuse and rule I have ever heard, only thing which might prevent money laundering is KYC, but not selective KYC which is regular practice around here. Not related to topic but I remember there was one player who deposited $20(or was it $40?) on cloudbet, wanted to withdraw it and as he didn't wager that huge amount, cloudbet asked him KYC because of their AML policy. Lol!