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Author Topic: Thoughts about Passport hardware wallet  (Read 2196 times)
dkbit98 (OP)
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March 10, 2022, 01:20:57 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1), SFR10 (1)
 #121

One more preview image posted for upcoming Passport hardware wallet batch2, and this time we are checking it from the inside and looking at pcb.
Passport is using the same micro processor model STM32H753 ARM Cortex, and usb-c port is used only for power charging of lithium ion battery.
I couldn't identify from posted images if they are still using old ATECC608A secure element or they switched to something new, maybe updated version ATECC608B.
Packaging is also updated, but I am not interested in that honestly speaking.


https://twitter.com/FOUNDATIONdvcs/status/1501707701910450181

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March 10, 2022, 05:41:48 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1), SFR10 (1)
 #122

One more preview image posted for upcoming Passport hardware wallet batch2, and this time we are checking it from the inside and looking at pcb.
Passport is using the same micro processor model STM32H753 ARM Cortex, and usb-c port is used only for power charging of lithium ion battery.
I couldn't identify from posted images if they are still using old ATECC608A secure element or they switched to something new, maybe updated version ATECC608B.
Packaging is also updated, but I am not interested in that honestly speaking.


https://twitter.com/FOUNDATIONdvcs/status/1501707701910450181

Hey, the version 2 was revealed earlier today!
https://twitter.com/FOUNDATIONdvcs/status/1501943486450323457/



It looks fine to me. A bit aggressive / flashy honestly, but I think I can live with it.
Would have preferred the old design 1:1 just thinner. Especially since with the thinner size and better battery, I might use this as a real daily-driver, so any inconspicuousness would have been appreciated.

IPS screen sounds good; also interesting they give you a microSD adapter for both types of phone OSes as well as seemingly put in a lot of work into a phone app so that you can set the wallet up and even update it completely without computer.

While this seems unnecessary for most of us here, it's actually going to be great for many people who just don't own a computer. It's not even really about money, but I do know people who simply don't need and wouldn't use a PC; they have e.g. an iPad to watch movies in bed and a phone for everyday usage. They don't sit in forums for hours, write code or long essays, so they don't need a PC. Cheesy
I am also not sure why you would use the SD over QR for transactions, when using a phone, but I guess it's cool that they include that adapter so you can update the wallet with your phone. It might even come in handy if you're traveling light and want to install a critical security update quickly.

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dkbit98 (OP)
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March 10, 2022, 06:53:15 PM
 #123

Hey, the version 2 was revealed earlier today!
I am checking it right now and it looks cool to me, only one thing I don't like is they kept old 608a secure element that has some small security issues, compared to improved 608b version.
They said this issues are not affecting anything related with functions of hardware wallet, but I think they had problem with supply chain and 608b version is out of stock.

IPS screen sounds good; also interesting they give you a microSD adapter for both types of phone OSes as well as seemingly put in a lot of work into a phone app so that you can set the wallet up and even update it completely without computer.
It's interesting they are shipping wallet together with Industrial-grade microSD card (much better than regular SD cards) and adapters for iOS and Android.
Included battery and power cable are normal thing, but I am interested to hear review and comparison with older device.

While this seems unnecessary for most of us here, it's actually going to be great for many people who just don't own a computer. It's not even really about money, but I do know people who simply don't need and wouldn't use a PC; they have e.g. an iPad to watch movies in bed and a phone for everyday usage.
IPS is much better for eyes and it's better than regular display, but you probably won't use hardware wallet non-stop. Smiley
Whats more important is ultra-hard glass on top of screen so it should be much better than in old device and harder to scratch... still better to get some protection cover.
I see they released new Envoy app that is also open source, but I would prefer to use well known wallets instead, and wait to see if Envoy has some big bugs.

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March 10, 2022, 07:15:14 PM
 #124

IPS screen sounds good;
This is one of the few things I actually don't like about it... It's overkill and considering what the nature of the product in question is, I would've preferred a TN screen instead [in a way, it could've acted as a privacy screen protector].

-Let's you send, receive, and "boost" bitcoin transactions.
Does anybody know if the highlighted part means their app [Envoy] comes with a built-in TX accelerator or it's just a feature like RBF and CPFP?

Envoy offers the ability to connect to your own Bitcoin node, cutting out Foundation as the middleman.
Me gusta Smiley

For what it's worth, I really like the design of their Batch 2!

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n0nce
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March 11, 2022, 01:42:46 AM
 #125

IPS screen sounds good; also interesting they give you a microSD adapter for both types of phone OSes as well as seemingly put in a lot of work into a phone app so that you can set the wallet up and even update it completely without computer.
It's interesting they are shipping wallet together with Industrial-grade microSD card (much better than regular SD cards) and adapters for iOS and Android.
Included battery and power cable are normal thing, but I am interested to hear review and comparison with older device.
The v1 also came with the industrial microSD. I think I mentioned it in my review.
Comparison will come as a second review once I get mine and have some time to test it out.

While this seems unnecessary for most of us here, it's actually going to be great for many people who just don't own a computer. It's not even really about money, but I do know people who simply don't need and wouldn't use a PC; they have e.g. an iPad to watch movies in bed and a phone for everyday usage.
IPS is much better for eyes and it's better than regular display, but you probably won't use hardware wallet non-stop. Smiley
Whats more important is ultra-hard glass on top of screen so it should be much better than in old device and harder to scratch... still better to get some protection cover.
I know, but honestly the old one wasn't great. It was totally fine for even daily transactions for sure, but just saying I do appreciate the upgrade! Definitely looking forward to that glass screen, let's see how it will be in real life.

I see they released new Envoy app that is also open source, but I would prefer to use well known wallets instead, and wait to see if Envoy has some big bugs.
I'm also pretty interested to look at the code; if they use trusted / well-known libraries and if so, which ones, or if it's all in-house, etc....

IPS screen sounds good;
This is one of the few things I actually don't like about it... It's overkill and considering what the nature of the product in question is, I would've preferred a TN screen instead [in a way, it could've acted as a privacy screen protector].
I don't understand; you mean 'screen protector' in the sense of that it doesn't have great viewing angles so people can't peer from the side? I don't see this as an issue on such a small screen (having used it) and you don't even notice the bad viewing angles at all. So I don't think the reason for going IPS was to make it readable from a shallow angle of view, moreso for just a better image. I'm not sure it's easy enough to see on pictures or online videos, but the v1 screen was pretty dim and in general the image was a bit weird. Not sure how to describe it really. It looks like this image here, which appears to be a render from their website, but this gradient from a grey to a light grey / white background is there as well as the small little squiggly lines all over the screen (zoom in).


-Let's you send, receive, and "boost" bitcoin transactions.
Does anybody know if the highlighted part means their app [Envoy] comes with a built-in TX accelerator or it's just a feature like RBF and CPFP?
No idea. Don't think the app or code are released yet; when they are, I'll try with the v1.

Envoy offers the ability to connect to your own Bitcoin node, cutting out Foundation as the middleman.
Me gusta Smiley
Honestly, absolute must-have for me and I think anyone else that's running their own node.

For what it's worth, I really like the design of their Batch 2!
Interesting! Wink I mean I think I'll get accustomed to it. I just tend to prefer more plain, low-key designs; in general from a company perspective, it's also a less risky choice. In the end it comes down to the features, usability and security to be honest.

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March 11, 2022, 12:31:04 PM
 #126

I don't understand; you mean 'screen protector' in the sense of that it doesn't have great viewing angles so people can't peer from the side? I don't see this as an issue on such a small screen (having used it) and you don't even notice the bad viewing angles at all. So I don't think the reason for going IPS was to make it readable from a shallow angle of view, moreso for just a better image. I'm not sure it's easy enough to see on pictures or online videos, but the v1 screen was pretty dim and in general the image was a bit weird. Not sure how to describe it really. It looks like this image here, which appears to be a render from their website, but this gradient from a grey to a light grey / white background is there as well as the small little squiggly lines all over the screen (zoom in).
https://foundationdevices.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/FD-1842_V05_WebsiteRender_01_7-10-2020.73_edit-scaled.jpg
Yes, I believe you interpret the first part correctly, but I wasn't implying that they went with an IPS screen because of its great viewing angles... I've read a few comments/blog posts in the past about users who travel with a hardware wallet and I've personally seen a couple of users that were using certain hardware wallets in a public place [SMH], so a screen with bad viewing angles would've been better for such users [I do know such situations probably doesn't apply to most of us, but still] and on top of that, it could've been cheaper [I guess I really want its price to come down, so I can afford it].

Interesting! Wink I mean I think I'll get accustomed to it. I just tend to prefer more plain, low-key designs; in general from a company perspective, it's also a less risky choice. In the end it comes down to the features, usability and security to be honest.
I totally agree with the latter part [IMO, the upcoming version justifies its premium price tag, as opposed to the previous version].

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March 11, 2022, 01:11:10 PM
 #127

I know, but honestly the old one wasn't great. It was totally fine for even daily transactions for sure, but just saying I do appreciate the upgrade! Definitely looking forward to that glass screen, let's see how it will be in real life.
Best option for me would be using something like e-ink display like one used in ebook readers.
You don't really need bright colors and bling for bitcoin wallet, and it would spend much less power than other alternatives.
I am honestly surprised no hardware wallet used eInk display so far, except maybe some M5Stack Esp32 devices.

Interesting! Wink I mean I think I'll get accustomed to it. I just tend to prefer more plain, low-key designs; in general from a company perspective, it's also a less risky choice. In the end it comes down to the features, usability and security to be honest.
Great thing about Foundation Passport is they release everything as open source including software and hardware, so you could ask them for .stl files and make your own custom design.
Quality probably won't be good as one that arrives from factory, and I am not sure how easy is to disassemble everything and put it all back together.
One more good thing about new Passport batch2 is they are using standard batteries used for old Nokia phones, exact model is BL-5C 1200mAh Rechargeable Battery.
You can buy one of this batteries everywhere online or in local electronics shop for around $10  Smiley

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March 11, 2022, 02:03:03 PM
 #128

I have a number of questions:

Is it possible to buy only Passport batch2 on their website?
As I noticed, this model is not with e-ink. Foundation refused to use e-ink?

What happened to the previous version? Removed from production?

Isn't the SD slot a weak link that allows to download malware? Can attackers use it?

In general, there is a positive impression of this device. The idea of replacing AAA batteries with a rechargeable battery turned out to be good and allowed to reduce the thickness of HW. Why e-ink was removed is a question for me. The ability to customize the display would be a good idea.
I would be grateful if someone could enlighten me. Thx.

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March 11, 2022, 02:52:53 PM
Last edit: March 11, 2022, 03:12:28 PM by n0nce
Merited by vapourminer (1), SFR10 (1)
 #129

I don't understand; you mean 'screen protector' in the sense of that it doesn't have great viewing angles so people can't peer from the side? I don't see this as an issue on such a small screen (having used it) and you don't even notice the bad viewing angles at all. So I don't think the reason for going IPS was to make it readable from a shallow angle of view, moreso for just a better image. I'm not sure it's easy enough to see on pictures or online videos, but the v1 screen was pretty dim and in general the image was a bit weird. Not sure how to describe it really. It looks like this image here, which appears to be a render from their website, but this gradient from a grey to a light grey / white background is there as well as the small little squiggly lines all over the screen (zoom in).
https://foundationdevices.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/FD-1842_V05_WebsiteRender_01_7-10-2020.73_edit-scaled.jpg
Yes, I believe you interpret the first part correctly, but I wasn't implying that they went with an IPS screen because of its great viewing angles... I've read a few comments/blog posts in the past about users who travel with a hardware wallet and I've personally seen a couple of users that were using certain hardware wallets in a public place [SMH], so a screen with bad viewing angles would've been better for such users [I do know such situations probably doesn't apply to most of us, but still] and on top of that, it could've been cheaper [I guess I really want its price to come down, so I can afford it].
Right, makes sense. I mean I'd avoid using one in public spaces in general, just like I don't take $100 bills out of my wallet in public and wave them around. But honestly, compared to a phone or tablet screen, where someone could look from moderately far away distances, these screens are tiny. Unless you're literally within a crowd of people, I doubt anyone can see what's on that stamp-sized screen even if it had the best display technology in the world.

Regarding price, I think I could get some kind of 'referral code' which you could use to get a discount, but I thought about it before and decided against it so not to bias my opinion / review, since I'd get a very small amount ($10) in BTC as well (Ambassador Program).
I might reconsider for your guys' benefits and just give them e.g. the UA donation address to pay out to. On the other hand, they'll only pay out quarterly, and by June I really hope this war will be over... Anyhow, if you've got an idea (other charity) let me know. Smiley
Would be a price of $189 with the discount which seems totally fair to me, since e.g. much worse build quality BitBox02 costs ~$150 and Trezor Model T costs ~$240ish.

I know, but honestly the old one wasn't great. It was totally fine for even daily transactions for sure, but just saying I do appreciate the upgrade! Definitely looking forward to that glass screen, let's see how it will be in real life.
Best option for me would be using something like e-ink display like one used in ebook readers.
You don't really need bright colors and bling for bitcoin wallet, and it would spend much less power than other alternatives.
I am honestly surprised no hardware wallet used eInk display so far, except maybe some M5Stack Esp32 devices.
E-Ink isn't perfect (who would've thought Wink), and that's the reason why we don't see it on lots of consumer devices. The really good, quickly refreshing ones, with little to no artifacts, cost a lot of money and are used in high-end eBook readers. The small form-factor ones are mostly for tinkering, so even if you got the budget, it's hard to get your hands on a high-quality one in the size that Foundation would need.

Interestingly, there was a phone that popped up recently which uses an eInk and it seems like it's very very bad (Mudita) from the first reviews.

You're right, that 'bright colours and bling' aren't needed, which is why the v1 Passport had a monochrome screen. One thing to consider with Foundation is that they always try to get components without closed-source microprocessors embedded within them. It's easily possible that eInk screen modules just only come with such chips inside them, but that's now just speculation on my part. Maybe just ask them on Twitter; they seem to be very interactive and open there.

Great thing about Foundation Passport is they release everything as open source including software and hardware, so you could ask them for .stl files and make your own custom design.
That's a good point! Maybe it will also be in their GitHub; then the chassis could be 3D printed with resin with any (single) colour one likes. It would give a basically perfectly smooth finish.

exact model is BL-5C 1200mAh Rechargeable Battery.
You can buy one of this batteries everywhere online or in local electronics shop for around $10  Smiley
Yeah, I'm a big fan of this choice; I'll probably get two or three probably to leave in the backpack and car so to always have one handy when needed on the go.

Is it possible to buy only Passport batch2 on their website?
What happened to the previous version? Removed from production?
Yes, it's not produced anymore, it was a one-time run of 1000 units. However resellers such as BTCdirect still have the v1 in stock if you prefer that. It is usually recommended to buy this sort of stuff directly from manufacturers though.

As I noticed, this model is not with e-ink. Foundation refused to use e-ink?
For my thoughts on this see above; if there's more interest in the topic, contact Foundation directly.

Isn't the SD slot a weak link that allows to download malware? Can attackers use it?
Try it! Tongue No honestly; it shouldn't. You can update the device via SD card, so there's a chance of trying to update it with a malicious firmware. However, it won't pass the cryptographic checks that the wallet performs on that firmware file, so you'd need to find an exploitable bug in the verification function (or maybe glitch the hardware during the process) to either skip the verification completely or to trick it into accepting an unsigned firmware file.

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March 12, 2022, 11:22:11 AM
Merited by n0nce (1)
 #130

One thing to consider with Foundation is that they always try to get components without closed-source microprocessors embedded within them. It's easily possible that eInk screen modules just only come with such chips inside them, but that's now just speculation on my part.
Not sure if this is what you are looking, but there is a Croatian company called Inkplate that apparently designs large e-inc displays based on open-source software and hardware. Whether or not all hardware components are completely open-source is not something I can answer though. But based on the items in their shop, they only sell larger displays.

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March 12, 2022, 10:52:04 PM
 #131

Is it possible to buy only Passport batch2 on their website?
Only if you contact them and ask if they have some leftovers, but I don't understand why would you use inferior device with known issues (battery, screen scratches...)

As I noticed, this model is not with e-ink. Foundation refused to use e-ink?
Nobody is refusing anything about e-ink display and Foundation never mentioned them, this was just my idea and suggestion.

Isn't the SD slot a weak link that allows to download malware? Can attackers use it?
Try to break it and infect with malware, than post results here.
It's similar like Coldcard hardware wallet that was never hacked in this way.

Interestingly, there was a phone that popped up recently which uses an eInk and it seems like it's very very bad (Mudita) from the first reviews.
I didn't know eink display are expensive, but I remember sawing this Mudita phone last year and I think it's way overpriced.
I like the idea for phone like this that is open source and with minimalist design, but it needs more work.
You can pretend to use phone and talk with Passport wallet  Cheesy

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March 12, 2022, 11:44:39 PM
 #132

Interestingly, there was a phone that popped up recently which uses an eInk and it seems like it's very very bad (Mudita) from the first reviews.
I didn't know eink display are expensive, but I remember sawing this Mudita phone last year and I think it's way overpriced.
I like the idea for phone like this that is open source and with minimalist design, but it needs more work.
You can pretend to use phone and talk with Passport wallet  Cheesy
I am pretty sure a few $ should suffice for such a screen and should fit within a $200 Bitcoin wallet manufacturer budget.
Yeah that phone is super overpriced; they also seem to go mostly for 'minimalism' and 'low SAR' etc instead of going mainly for open-source (though that's one of its features). It's off-topic, but was the only high-end device (at least price-wise) that came to mind which has a small eInk screen.

Yep, Passport definitely has a factor of plausible deniability / concealment in plain sight built-in!

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March 16, 2022, 02:11:15 PM
 #133

New updated page was released for Passport hardware wallet Batch2 on foundation website, and I have to say that it looks amazing!  Shocked
Hands down best looking hardware wallet in my opinion, that is air-gapped and open source on both software and hardware level.
I can't wait for review and comparison with older version from one of 2500 proud owners.


https://foundationdevices.com/passport/

It does it look batch2 has grown in size compared with older version, dimensions are 1.54'' x 4.36'' x 0.76'' (39mm x 110.8mm x 19.2mm) but it became slimmer.
Comparing that with older Passport devices, nokia phone, and with few other popular hardware wallets in link below:
https://comparesizes.com/comparison/Nano-S-vs-Trezor-One-vs-Nano-X-vs-Passport-vs-Nokia-3310-vs-Passport-2/1647439742683

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March 16, 2022, 02:27:18 PM
Merited by dkbit98 (1)
 #134

~
Thanks, it does look cool in this picture. Cheesy I will make sure to review and compare it; you won't miss it!
The size comparison is interesting. Thinner profile will definitely make it easier to carry in a pocket. I can't wait to get mine!
I'm thinking about grabbing one of those ambassador codes so you guys can get a $10 discount, as I saw a few interested folks who still find $200 too steep. On the other hand, it shouldn't influence my review, so I might do it after the review, maybe donate the $10 that I'd get for referring or something like that. What do you think?

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March 16, 2022, 03:47:23 PM
 #135

Hands down best looking hardware wallet in my opinion, that is air-gapped and open source on both software and hardware level.
In some ways, it reminds me of the Vertu Signature series phones, so I really like its design + most of its features.

I was under the impression that Batch 2 was a lot thinner than the previous version, but it looks like I was wrong [a bit strange].

I'm thinking about grabbing one of those ambassador codes so you guys can get a $10 discount, as I saw a few interested folks who still find $200 too steep.
If you're referring to me because of our previous conversation, honestly, $190 is still a lot for me [due to other expenses], but I appreciate the kind gesture Smiley

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March 16, 2022, 03:53:02 PM
 #136

I was under the impression that Batch 2 was a lot thinner than the previous version, but it looks like I was wrong [a bit strange].
Indeed, it's 19mm vs 24mm roughly (I measured the v1 thickness right now). Not as much as expected; looked thinner due to smaller footprint I guess.

I'm thinking about grabbing one of those ambassador codes so you guys can get a $10 discount, as I saw a few interested folks who still find $200 too steep.
If you're referring to me because of our previous conversation, honestly, $190 is still a lot for me [due to other expenses], but I appreciate the kind gesture Smiley
I think it was you and dkbit98 I was thinking about, yes. Smiley Alright!

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FatFork
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March 16, 2022, 07:09:09 PM
 #137

I was under the impression that Batch 2 was a lot thinner than the previous version, but it looks like I was wrong [a bit strange].
Indeed, it's 19mm vs 24mm roughly (I measured the v1 thickness right now). Not as much as expected; looked thinner due to smaller footprint I guess.

Yes, it really looks a lot thinner in the pictures, but I wouldn't ignore the almost 5mm difference (according to your measurements). It appears that the official dimensions of the previous version were not entirely accurate, as a thickness of only 20 mm was mentioned.

Although it still resembles the old NOKIA brick phone, I like the new design. It is also nice that the new model uses a removable battery that utilizes the Nokia BL-5C form factor, which simplifies the purchase of replacement batteries.

All in all, I would say that this is my favorite hardware wallet right now (although I would prefer a price near $100).

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dkbit98 (OP)
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March 17, 2022, 03:31:20 PM
 #138

I'm thinking about grabbing one of those ambassador codes so you guys can get a $10 discount, as I saw a few interested folks who still find $200 too steep. On the other hand, it shouldn't influence my review, so I might do it after the review, maybe donate the $10 that I'd get for referring or something like that. What do you think?
I think this is a good decision, and you can even earn few sats when people read your honest review and use your code.
There is nothing wrong about unless it's pure shilling, like people are doing on youtube for ledger and trezor all the time.
Do you know how much are shipping costs for Passport batch2?

Yes, it really looks a lot thinner in the pictures, but I wouldn't ignore the almost 5mm difference (according to your measurements). It appears that the official dimensions of the previous version were not entirely accurate, as a thickness of only 20 mm was mentioned.
Maybe they changed something along the way, but I remember we took official dimensions long time ago when I did size comparison with other deviecs back in 2020.
I think they have some twitter giveaway so you can try your luck winning one of the batch2 device for 0$ Wink

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n0nce
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March 17, 2022, 09:53:28 PM
Last edit: March 18, 2022, 11:51:27 AM by n0nce
Merited by dkbit98 (3)
 #139

Yes, it really looks a lot thinner in the pictures, but I wouldn't ignore the almost 5mm difference (according to your measurements). It appears that the official dimensions of the previous version were not entirely accurate, as a thickness of only 20 mm was mentioned.
Interesting that it was specified as 20mm, that was definitely wrong! Cheesy

All in all, I would say that this is my favorite hardware wallet right now (although I would prefer a price near $100).
Honestly, it's a lot of money, but you can't expect a 'price near $100' for this. Besides the fact that they're still much smaller than the likes of Trezor and Ledger (economy of scale), their component costs are higher and they also build the devices in the U.S. - I was honestly surprised they could slash $100 off the old price.
Let's not forget big, well-known Trezor brand (though I do like their products) sells a small USB wallet for 225€. Wink

I'm thinking about grabbing one of those ambassador codes so you guys can get a $10 discount, as I saw a few interested folks who still find $200 too steep. On the other hand, it shouldn't influence my review, so I might do it after the review, maybe donate the $10 that I'd get for referring or something like that. What do you think?
I think this is a good decision, and you can even earn few sats when people read your honest review and use your code.
There is nothing wrong about unless it's pure shilling, like people are doing on youtube for ledger and trezor all the time.
Nah, I don't want to earn off of a review or anything like that to be honest. It's not much money anyway and it can lead people to false conclusions. For example, I did criticize the v1 a good bit; if I end up really enjoying the v2 and hand out a referral code, someone could think I only changed opinion to refer many users and make a lot of money. So I would need to be conservative with any praises, even if I genuinely enjoy it, to make sure such a conclusion doesn't happen. This would bias me either way or another, so I prefer to stick to no referrals.

Do you know how much are shipping costs for Passport batch2?
It shows during checkout based on your location, if I remember correctly!

Maybe they changed something along the way, but I remember we took official dimensions long time ago when I did size comparison with other deviecs back in 2020.
Regarding dimensions again; it's possible they measured on the edge or so, since the device does't 'lay flat'. I measured the thickest spot (right in the centre of the device).

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Pmalek
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March 21, 2022, 09:29:32 AM
 #140

Do you know how much are shipping costs for Passport batch2?
Shipping isn't cheap. I started filling out the information with fake details until the costs were displayed. The fee to ship the device to an address in Zagreb, Croatia is $40. I got the same costs for an address in Germany and Serbia as well. I though that's the fee for sending it to Europe, so I tried South America but the exact same costs pop up for an Argentinian address, for example. 

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